Sighting in

[Veracity]

Guys,

I saw here in the Knowledge Base Threads the LTC Chuck Santose battle sight thread.

Do the majority of you guys use that method?

I was rereading some of the info about sighting in my Colt manual, and based on the manual, I now know I do not understand some important aspects of the process. (I sighted it in wrong...according to the manual...and according to the thread.)

Too many Qs to type here and now.

Let me start with this: Do you guys use the Santose method?

[JBnTX]

I use it for my two Colt 6920s.
Works very well out to 300yds.

[spamsammich]

My friends and I use it on all of our ARs and find it to be fine for BUIS and recreational shooting.

[Eric]

Let me start with this: Do you guys use the Santose method?
Yes. All personal weapons are and I strongly recommend that the dept issued weapons are as well.

[Veracity]

Yes. All personal weapons are and I strongly recommend that the dept issued weapons are as well.

So....

Do you guys also agree with him when he says that this method means that 99% of your shooting can be done without touching the sight adjustment again?

[spamsammich]

So....

Do you guys also agree with him when he says that this method means that 99% of your shooting can be done without touching the sight adjustment again?

As far as I know yes. YMMV, just know that you'll be roughly minute of pop can out to 300yds.

[boltcatch]

For 0 - 300 with irons or Aimpoint/EoTech I can't see a reason not to use it or a similar method. It just works. The only reason I keep my 300m zero on my 20" A2 is for nostalgia reasons, and the fact that I learned to shoot them that way. :D

[sdcromer]

Yes I have used the IBSZ for years. I almost never tough the sights.

[Veracity]

I use it for my two Colt 6920s.
Works very well out to 300yds.

Since I'm trying to do the same with my 6920, I'd like to ask you a few specific questions.

Ok, if I understand the Santose process correctly, guys with A3s need to loosen the sight wheel and then turn the bottom portion of the wheel four clicks clockwise. Then tighten the wheel.

This was supposed to allow the sight wheel to bottom out at two clicks below 6/3. After this process, mine only bottomed out one below.

Did you have a similar situation?

I put everything back to where it was before I started...so I'm good to go again.

[JBnTX]

Since I'm trying to do the same with my 6920, I'd like to ask you a few specific questions.

Ok, if I understand the Santose process correctly, guys with A3s need to loosen the sight wheel and then turn the bottom portion of the wheel four clicks clockwise. Then tighten the wheel.

This was supposed to allow the sight wheel to bottom out at two clicks below 6/3. After this process, mine only bottomed out one below.

Did you have a similar situation?

I put everything back to where it was before I started...so I'm good to go again.



You can adjust the number of turns to get the required amount of clicks
below 6/3. I had to do that. Experiment until you get what you want.

Keep in mind that "adjustment" is to preserve the sight markings at the 4,
5, and 6 positions on the sight. So in theory if you set the rear sight to
5, you should hit a man sized target at 500yds. Same for the 4 and 6
positions. That's in theory, it never works out exactly like that in real life.

But, how often does anyone fire at those ranges?

The 5.56mm round shoots relatively flat out to about 300yds

Properly sighted in you can leave the rear sight on the 6/3 position and
hit targets out to 300yds without any sight adjustment.

I do aim just a touch high when shooting at 300yds.
At 100yds it hits about 3 inches high
At 200yds it's dead on.

This is with iron sights from a stock Colt 6920.
Not target accuracy but close enough for "government" work.

This probably covers about 90% percent of firing done with the 6920.

Your results may be different due to different rifles, firing techniques and
a million other variables.

[Veracity]

Properly sighted in you can leave the rear sight on the 6/3 position and
hit targets out to 300yds without any sight adjustment.



Ok, this is where I sometimes get confused when I read sighting instructions.

The Santose method does not want you to return the sight wheel to the 6/3 position. He says you certainly can put it back if you want to shoot 300m, but that you should keep it two clicks below 6/3...in order to get the 50yd zero and battle sight 200m.

I tend to be too literal when it comes to these things..and it hangs me up. My job brainwashes me that way. Gotta follow the letter of the rules...no interpretation.

I will tweak my wheel in order to get two clicks down. Thanks.

[JBnTX]

I deviated from the instructions at that point.

I like the rear sight set at 6/3. So I made adjustments
to make that work.

If you're going to be shooting at distances farther than
300 yards and want to preserve the sight settings,
then follow the instructions to the letter.

If you're shooting primarily at less than 300 yards,
you can basically set the rear set anyway you choose
to enable hits out to 300 yards without any other sight
adjustments.

At plus 300 yards most people would use a scope, so it's
all really a moot point.

AR-15 iron sights don't really cut it past 300yds.

Just for fun, I set my rear sight to 4 and fired at 400 yards.
The bullets impacted in the lower half of a torso sized target.
Not accurate but they did hit the target.

To hit dead on at 400yds, I have to turn the rear sight almost
to the 5 mark. That's OK, cause I'm at the limit of my range
anyway.

Past that I can't hit anything with iron sights. Old eyes.

[Veracity]

I like the rear sight set at 6/3. So I made adjustments
to make that work.

If you're going to be shooting at distances farther than
300 yards and want to preserve the sight settings,
then follow the instructions to the letter.

If you're shooting primarily at less than 300 yards,
you can basically set the rear set anyway you choose
to enable hits out to 300 yards without any other sight
adjustments.



Hey, you said you used the Santose method, but the Santose method doesn't set the sights on 6/3!

The whole idea is to have a more accurate setting for less that 300, right?

This is definitely a case of "It's not you, it's me." I cannot handle ambiguity!
Every time I think I've got it......

[JBnTX]

....
This is definitely a case of "It's not you, it's me." I cannot handle ambiguity!
Every time I think I've got it......


Buddy, I've been trying to help you.
I don't see a lot of people stepping up to the plate to do that.

I've told you what I do and the results it produces.
If it doesn't meet your standards, there's nothing I can do about that.

If you follow the Santose instructions to the letter , it will work.
I've used it exactly as the instructions state, and it works.

But that's not how I want to shoot. I explained that.

You're on your own!

[Veracity]

Buddy, I've been trying to help you.
I don't see a lot of people stepping up to the plate to do that.

I've told you what I do and the results it produces.
If it doesn't meet your standards, there's nothing I can do about that.

If you follow the Santose instructions to the letter , it will work.
I've used it exactly as the instructions state, and it works.

But that's not how I want to shoot. I explained that.

You're on your own!

Of course I know you're helping me. That's why I posted my question.

It's not you....it's me!:D

[spamsammich]

Ok, this is where I sometimes get confused when I read sighting instructions.

The Santose method does not want you to return the sight wheel to the 6/3 position. He says you certainly can put it back if you want to shoot 300m, but that you should keep it two clicks below 6/3...in order to get the 50yd zero and battle sight 200m.

I tend to be too literal when it comes to these things..and it hangs me up. My job brainwashes me that way. Gotta follow the letter of the rules...no interpretation.

I will tweak my wheel in order to get two clicks down. Thanks.


It's -2 clicks on an 8/3 A1 sight. Some of the sights that use 6/3 move in half click increments compared to the 8/3 so your base setting with something like the LMT BUIS is -4 clicks from 6/3.

[Failure2Stop]

The Santose IBZ instructions are how to achieve a 50/200 meter/yard zero with A2/M4 sights while maintaining integrity of the longer distance settings on the rear elevation drum.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the majority of users employ a 50 or 200 meter/yard zero, with some using a 100 yard/meter zero, and few using the "normal" 300 meter/yard.

The thing is that a lot of people are using a BUIS that does not offer elevation adjustment a la the A2.

On my guns with an LMT BUIS I use the IBZ. On others I use a simple 200 yard zero.

[Jay Cunningham]

One lesson learned from Larry Vickers that I wholeheartedly agree with: know and understand your zero, whatever it may be. Understand your offset and know your holdover/unders for various ranges.

The actual zero is not that important as long as you know where the bullets are going to go. Just don't do something retarded like zero POA/POI for seven yards - I heard about a swat team doing that once.

[DWood]

I zeroed my Short Dot optic carefully on my 16" LMT at 50 yards. I just returned from a Carbine 1 class and my zero was good at 200 yards without further adjustment. I am satisfied that it works.