View Full Version : Wireless routers and other tech things
I was really good with computers and tech stuff ten years ago, not so much now. I'm wondering how often you guys upgrade your wireless routers to a new model? I know TVs and everything else continue to grow pretty fast, I assume routers do too. I've had the same one for four years and the last week or so my internet has really been lagging so I figured it might be time to replace it. I don't know anything about how fast my internet is supposed to be though, I just know we get it along with the cable and I pay more for some "upgraded" speed.
HardToHandle
05-27-18, 20:24
I was really good with computers and tech stuff ten years ago, not so much now. I'm wondering how often you guys upgrade your wireless routers to a new model? I know TVs and everything else continue to grow pretty fast, I assume routers do too. I've had the same one for four years and the last week or so my internet has really been lagging so I figured it might be time to replace it. I don't know anything about how fast my internet is supposed to be though, I just know we get it along with the cable and I pay more for some "upgraded" speed.
One of my IT VPs updated his router every year.
Based on the recent US CERT and FBI warnings, you would want to be doing so frequently to say the least... changing up credentials, network equipment, etc. is a NSA recommendation to frustrate bad guy persistence. It will not stop dedication, but will likely disrupt some lower tier concerns.
I wasn't even talking security wise. I did some more searching since the OP and the internet test through my provider said I have a 125.5 download speed and 23.3 upload. I think I've been paying for a 300/50 service the whole time we've been here...
Adrenaline_6
05-27-18, 22:53
I don't buy the consumer stuff anymore. For the price, a Ubiquiti Router X and one of their Unifi AC access points comes in cheaper and better performance and range than your combo wireless routers that are usually stuck in a corner somewhere.
Don't go Netgear, specifically R8500. I gave it a try and the 2.4Ghz failed within 3 weeks. Returned and went with a Linksys AC5400 no issues over a year, I'll hold my breath. It does not support a VPN.
http://tinyurl.com/ybyz8a3g
I used to upgrade them quite often. However we have hit a bit of a plateau in the technology so it isn't happening as often anymore.
Currently I just upgraded both my house and my parents to the google mesh network and it works amazingly.
I used to upgrade them quite often. However we have hit a bit of a plateau in the technology so it isn't happening as often anymore.
Currently I just upgraded both my house and my parents to the google mesh network and it works amazingly.
I talked to the cable company and they said that my router, while older, is still really good. It’s receiving about 300mbps with very little interference, but I’m only able to see about 120 with my phone about six feet away so I’m not sure if it is doing that well.
Either way, it got me researching MOCA because it supports that feature and I’m pretty interested by it. Seems like a similar concept as mesh but cheaper and potentially faster.
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I don't buy the consumer stuff anymore. For the price, a Ubiquiti Router X and one of their Unifi AC access points comes in cheaper and better performance and range than your combo wireless routers that are usually stuck in a corner somewhere.Very curious about this set up. Any decent guides out there?
Adrenaline_6
05-28-18, 18:48
Very curious about this set up. Any decent guides out there?
The Ubiquiti website has a wiki forum that you can search and you will probably find what you need just searching. If not, the moderators on the forum are glad to help you out with any questions you might have.
I have just the Router X and one Unifi AC access point. I ran the Cat5e in the attic to a central location near my kitchen and mounted horizontally. I get good signal 100' away in the corner of the farthest point in my backyard. You will need to program the AP with a PC using their Unifi controller software, but it isn't hard if you know the basics.
52213
The Router X has never needed to be rebooted once. It can do a lot more than the consumer routers can as far as advanced features, but I really don't use them. If you have a big house or non friendly wireless construction, you can have more than one AP and use the Unifi controller software to control them and manage the handoffs.
Unifi AP's : https://www.ubnt.com/products/#unifi
Routers: https://www.ubnt.com/products/#edgemax
Unifi help: https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/categories/200320654-UniFi-Wireless
Forum: https://community.ubnt.com/t5/custom/page/page-id/Forums
+1 on the Ubiquiti stuff. Have been using it professionally and in my house for years. Really no comparison to consumer stuff. Just keep in mind that they do not offer support. Other than the forums, you’re pretty much on your own.
Awesome stuff, thanks. I'm comfortable having no support and can usually figure stuff out with some help from forums etc. My house is a bit bigger and my current TPLink does ok but I'd like better coverage in the yard.
The unifi stuff is great.
It is commercial grade vs typical consumer grade combo WiFi routers.
Having a separate access point(s) allows for better antenna positioning, as the router and switch usually need to be in a different place.
For a residential network my demands are... above average... shall we say? I generally have nearly 50 clients and that's after putting some effort into pairing some down a bit. One of the largest bandwidth offenders on my network is probably a tie between my security cameras & the fact that we use the main server as a media hub for all locations within as well as outside the LAN. I've got around 50 Z-Wave devices as well but that doesn't even factor in since my hub is seen as a single device. That bandwidth really isn't that much anyway.
For quite some time I had a Cisco/Linksys E3000 running DD-WRT/Tomato and that sucker was rock solid. Uptime measured in months and even then the only time I took it down wasn't due to stability so it could have been measured in years. Unfortunately the hardware became dated and I needed new hardware to meet the needs of my advancing demands even though it handled the current needs like a champion. I decide to go with a Dark Knight n66u because all the reviews said it was the best consumer grade router on the market. They said the firmware was finally up to standards that most who hacked 3rd party firmware were used to. Wrong! I've had to reboot this router every few days and even then it struggles at times. It's been a source of frustration for years now.
I couple of months ago I finally acquired the final piece in my new network which was a UniFi PoE switch to go with the USG and UAP-AC-PRO access points. I had been waiting for the best pricing I could get on each one for some time so I was happy to finally get the final piece I needed to make the swap. The problem is that since making that final purchase I just didn't have time to deploy it. It's going to be a PITA that I'm not looking forward to but I know that, once done, it will virtually eliminate the source of my LAN headaches while bringing some much needed functionality and features.
After doing my research, I highly recommend the Ubiquiti UniFi line-up. It costs a little more than their non-UniFi devices but the integration and simplicity of the UniFi ecosystem appears to be well worth the money spent moving forward in terms of monitoring and management from everything I've read. I'm as cheap as they come but the price difference between say the Edge router and the USG for instance is like $50 or so. $50 on a device that's going to be the brain of your entire network for years to come seems like a modest investment especially when you see what the UniFi dashboard does for you in conjunction with the past ways of managing network devices. Having everything in a single dashboard that you can get analytics on and manage easily whether at home or away on consumer-priced equipment was a dream only a few years ago. Today it's a $50 premium. Yes please.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-31-18, 08:16
I use Ubiquiti UniFi also. Best Tech decision I have made in a long time. I currently have 2 AP, one upstairs doing 2.4/5ghz and one in our master that I have set just for 5ghz. Everything works great.
I also have 4 ubiquiti security cameras which I love.
Unifi access points, Mikrotik routers.
Though I'd love to have the unifi software tool light up the network diagram with their switches and router, I need more flexibility than the unifi routers offer.
Unifi router configurability has opened up some, but it's still hard to beat the Mikrotik in terms of function/options/power/price.
Rack mount router with integrated POE switch, way more HP, for less than the unifi routers were. Important things are gigabit Ethernet. Totally segregated guest and IOT networks, etc. So printers, rokus, etc are essentially sandboxed. Secure net can get to them, but they can't get to the secure net.
If you don't expect to be doing custom firewall rules, etc (or don't have the knowledge to do so) the unifi solution is a great pick. I think of their switches & routers as "prosumer".
I've been on Linux based routers in some form for over 15-20 years. PC based, then WRT GS types with DDWRT, then tomato. Then more powerful HW, still with tomato (Netgear 3000?)
Once I made the move to separate routers/access points I never looked back. Just updated my router firmware, it had been up since early January. And even that reboot was to do a firmware update.
Have a friend who has a very successful ISP (really MSP) that put me onto the unifi/Mikrotik combo. 30-40 sites, hundreds of APs and links, dozens of routers.
I got a few PMs so I appreciate those and the posts here. I have maybe three devices on the internet at once and our biggest data suck is Netflix on the PS4. I did some digging and found that the recommended speed to watch HD movies without buffering really isn't all that much so I decided to keep my current modem/router and rework some stuff. I moved the modem about 20 feet to get a wired connection to the PS4 and it jumped from around 30mbps to around 130. I knew wired was better but didn't know it was that much better. Also bought an Actiontec WCB3000N for all of $13.94 on Amazon to run upstairs. Significant speed gains with that so I'm very surprised that I'd never heard about MOCA before, it seems legit and I would've expected to pay at least $60 for that performance.
I think the whole reason it got slow in the first place is because we got new neighbors that have the same cabe company, the last guys used dish. Its the only thing that seems to make sense.
Adrenaline_6
06-05-18, 08:27
I got a few PMs so I appreciate those and the posts here. I have maybe three devices on the internet at once and our biggest data suck is Netflix on the PS4. I did some digging and found that the recommended speed to watch HD movies without buffering really isn't all that much so I decided to keep my current modem/router and rework some stuff. I moved the modem about 20 feet to get a wired connection to the PS4 and it jumped from around 30mbps to around 130. I knew wired was better but didn't know it was that much better. Also bought an Actiontec WCB3000N for all of $13.94 on Amazon to run upstairs. Significant speed gains with that so I'm very surprised that I'd never heard about MOCA before, it seems legit and I would've expected to pay at least $60 for that performance.
I think the whole reason it got slow in the first place is because we got new neighbors that have the same cabe company, the last guys used dish. Its the only thing that seems to make sense.
Well then you might want to check to see if you are on the same wireless channel as your neighbor's. The cable tech setting everything up, might not pay attention, or care about that detail. Finding a unused portion of the spectrum might help a lot.
The Ubiquiti website has a wiki forum that you can search and you will probably find what you need just searching. If not, the moderators on the forum are glad to help you out with any questions you might have.
I have just the Router X and one Unifi AC access point. I ran the Cat5e in the attic to a central location near my kitchen and mounted horizontally. I get good signal 100' away in the corner of the farthest point in my backyard. You will need to program the AP with a PC using their Unifi controller software, but it isn't hard if you know the basics.
52213
The Router X has never needed to be rebooted once. It can do a lot more than the consumer routers can as far as advanced features, but I really don't use them. If you have a big house or non friendly wireless construction, you can have more than one AP and use the Unifi controller software to control them and manage the handoffs.
Unifi AP's : https://www.ubnt.com/products/#unifi
Routers: https://www.ubnt.com/products/#edgemax
Unifi help: https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/categories/200320654-UniFi-Wireless
Forum: https://community.ubnt.com/t5/custom/page/page-id/Forums
Coming back to this thread as the construction I'm doing where I need more coverage outside of the main house is closer to be done. I just watched a set up video on youtube and it seems pretty simple but I'm wondering what are the differences on the Unifi AP's? I'm looking at this one specifically Ubiquiti Unifi Ap AC Long-Range (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Long-Range/dp/B015PRCBBI/ref=pd_sbs_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B015PRCBBI&pd_rd_r=RD0ZRQGZHM86CD8E8BS2&pd_rd_w=U6zvE&pd_rd_wg=bIKFU&psc=1&refRID=RD0ZRQGZHM86CD8E8BS2&dpID=31iJUZyx9SL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail)
Cheers.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-12-18, 10:02
I don't buy the consumer stuff anymore. For the price, a Ubiquiti Router X and one of their Unifi AC access points comes in cheaper and better performance and range than your combo wireless routers that are usually stuck in a corner somewhere.
Pretty much same thing here. Ubiquiti router, switch, and two access points(PRO AND LITE) , plus a controller. I also use their security cameras and have a server set up for the recordings.
For the price they are the best j have found and are true enterprise quality. You will need some basic it knowledge and the willingness to Google to get them set up though.
Edit: I now remember I have already commented on this thread but I'll leave this one as well.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-12-18, 10:06
The long range just puts more power to the signal. It all depends on your needs. They have the pro, lite, long range, outdoor models , etc.
The LR is a good one.
It has a lot of power on the 2.4 band and more importantly some nice high gain antennas.
It also has 5ghz band but that doesn't have near the reach, especially through walls.
just watched a set up video on youtube and it seems pretty simple but I'm wondering what are the differences on the Unifi AP's? I'm looking at this one specifically Ubiquiti Unifi Ap AC Long-Range (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Long-Range/dp/B015PRCBBI/ref=pd_sbs_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B015PRCBBI&pd_rd_r=RD0ZRQGZHM86CD8E8BS2&pd_rd_w=U6zvE&pd_rd_wg=bIKFU&psc=1&refRID=RD0ZRQGZHM86CD8E8BS2&dpID=31iJUZyx9SL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail)
Cheers.
The long range just puts more power to the signal. It all depends on your needs. They have the pro, lite, long range, outdoor models , etc.
The LR is a good one.
It has a lot of power on the 2.4 band and more importantly some nice high gain antennas.
It also has 5ghz band but that doesn't have near the reach, especially through walls.Thanks Gents. Looks like the LR might be the one for me. The range I need is 150-200ft beaming down from a height of about 15ft from inside the main house to a secondary building. Repeating the signal with second AP is also an option but I read somewhere the LR signal is good to about 600ft. I'm assuming this is on 2.4.
A power line adapter is a good choice for a point to point link to an out building.
Something like the TP LINK TL-PA9020 KIT (https://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5509_TL-PA9020-KIT.html) or TL-PA7020 KIT (https://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5509_TL-PA7020-KIT.html) should do it.
Best results when both units are on the same AC circuit.
The range I need is 150-200ft beaming down from a height of about 15ft from inside the main house to a secondary building. Repeating the signal with second AP is also an option but I read somewhere the LR signal is good to about 600ft. I'm assuming this is on 2.4.
Adrenaline_6
08-13-18, 08:01
I have the LR and I get coverage all the way to the corner of my fence in my backyard which measures 150' and change. Distance you get is going to vary with the noise threshold in your area. I know at one time I was being a polite neighbor and picking a narrower channel range which sacrifices a little speed so I didn't step on other neighbor's signals. AT&T came in with fiber and a bunch of neighbor's switched over to them and when they setup their wireless, they broadcasted over the whole spectrum. Everyone is stepping on everyone. So I said f*ck it, and did the same at full power.
So my construction is finally done and it's time to buy. Has there been any new models or anything else worth considering? Or should I stick with my original plan to get the Ubiquiti Unifi Ap AC Long-Range?
Thanks.
I still don’t see why anything is better than MoCA..
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I still don’t see why anything is better than MoCA..
https://i.imgur.com/9ZOgqGO.png
https://i.imgur.com/9ZOgqGO.png
Serious. Though I honestly don't know (or care) much about this stuff. If you have a MOCA enabled router, it seems like a potentially very cheap and effective way to decrease deadzones.
ETA - I shouldn't say that I don't care, especially since this is my thread. I just don't want to dedicate significant time to learning a lot more info about this stuff. I just want something that's easy and works well. My router at the time was MoCA enabled so I got a $20 thing on Amazon and it made my deadzone go away by just plugging it in to a COAX port. Big win.
Adrenaline_6
04-08-19, 22:09
So my construction is finally done and it's time to buy. Has there been any new models or anything else worth considering? Or should I stick with my original plan to get the Ubiquiti Unifi Ap AC Long-Range?
Thanks.
The newer model UAP-AC-PRO is the way to go in that model lineup. The model UAP-HD is better and faster but is at a higher price point.
The newer model UAP-AC-PRO is the way to go in that model lineup. The model UAP-HD is better and faster but is at a higher price point.
Thanks! I figured there was likely a newer version given the rate tech moves. I see the Amazon product page has it listed with the Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway as a bundle. Would this be preferable to the Router X. I’m assuming they do a similar job.
Adrenaline_6
04-09-19, 09:07
Thanks! I figured there was likely a newer version given the rate tech moves. I see the Amazon product page has it listed with the Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway as a bundle. Would this be preferable to the Router X. I’m assuming they do a similar job.
It is preference really. The Unifi Gateway is configured through Ubiquiti's controller software which also configures their UAP's. The Unifi controller software can be installed on a device, but needs to be running and connected to the devices to manage them. Once configured, the controller software does not have to be running. Another way to run the controller software is their Cloudkey, which has it the Unifi Controller software embedded on the Cloudkey device so you don't need to install the software on anything and can manage all Unifi devices from anywhere.
The Router X has it's own GUI webpage that you log into to manage. I guess it does have a little more functionality then the Gateway, but nothing most homeowners will ever use, so it doesn't matter.
I have the Router X, not because it is better, it is just because that is what I bought first. I wouldn't mind getting the Cloudkey because keeping all the devices and the controller software updated would be easier. The Router X would have to be updated separately in it's own GUI. The Unifi Controller software can update all Unifi devices connected from one central GUI.
Hope this helps.
Thanks! I figured there was likely a newer version given the rate tech moves. I see the Amazon product page has it listed with the Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway as a bundle. Would this be preferable to the Router X. I’m assuming they do a similar job.
IMHO spend a little bit more to get all UniFi so that you can control all devices from a single dashboard. May not seem like much now but years later when you've got a dozen you will be glad you spend that extra forty of fifty bucks up front. Also gives you some cool logs and controls you wouldn't normally have that you may find useful once you have them.
Great stuff guys, thanks for the advice. I’ll do a little more reading but I can see the value of the one dashboard to make like easy.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-09-19, 13:28
IMHO spend a little bit more to get all UniFi so that you can control all devices from a single dashboard. May not seem like much now but years later when you've got a dozen you will be glad you spend that extra forty of fifty bucks up front. Also gives you some cool logs and controls you wouldn't normally have that you may find useful once you have them.
Agreed. I have converted everything in my house to UniFi including security cameras. If they would come out with a door bell I would replace my Skybell.
Adrenaline_6
04-09-19, 13:42
Agreed. I have converted everything in my house to UniFi including security cameras. If they would come out with a door bell I would replace my Skybell.
I really wish they would allow any ONVIF certified cameras though. Although they have upped their game with their newer PRO lineup, their camera models are limited. Opening it up to all ONVIF compliant cameras would be awesome. Even if they have to charge a small license fee per 3rd party camera to allow them to make up for lost hardware income, so be it, but restricting it to just their camera lineup only is imho stupid, and lowering the amount of their video product users.
Agreed. I have converted everything in my house to UniFi including security cameras. If they would come out with a door bell I would replace my Skybell.
I recently (a few years ago?) upgraded about a dozen Foscam cameras to Hikvision & now I'm wishing I could've procrastinated just a little bit longer as I probably would've opted for UniFi cams instead.
Finally got around to ordering the Unifi gear. Went with the USG, Cloudkey, 8 port switch and an LR AP. I set everything up on a bench first to run through the Youtube video I found. It was very easy to follow and there were basically no gotcha's I encountered that weren't of my own making. So far everything is stable and coverage is decent enough that I can use a laptop in a second structure on my lot. I think adding another AP will make phones usable there also. Very happy I came across this thread when it was originally posted and thanks to all for the input and help provided.
If anyone is on the fence about grabbing this stuff, I would highly recommend it for something a little more robust and scale-able than a home router. The dashboard is very intuitive and helpful. Almost worth the entry price alone.
Belmont31R
09-01-19, 23:04
Finally got around to ordering the Unifi gear. Went with the USG, Cloudkey, 8 port switch and an LR AP. I set everything up on a bench first to run through the Youtube video I found. It was very easy to follow and there were basically no gotcha's I encountered that weren't of my own making. So far everything is stable and coverage is decent enough that I can use a laptop in a second structure on my lot. I think adding another AP will make phones usable there also. Very happy I came across this thread when it was originally posted and thanks to all for the input and help provided.
If anyone is on the fence about grabbing this stuff, I would highly recommend it for something a little more robust and scale-able than a home router. The dashboard is very intuitive and helpful. Almost worth the entry price alone.
For home use Ubiquiti also has the Amplify mesh system. Mesh networks have come a long way with dedicated backhaul bands for talking between nodes and not taking up bandwidth used for client devices.
Adrenaline_6
09-02-19, 19:36
Glad it all went well for you Vegas.
Glad it all went well for you Vegas.
Thanks.
If I figure out the wiring, I may add a few of their cameras to cover my property. Any experience of those?
Ok, so I need help. We’re in our third house since I made this thread and struggling. Cell phone coverage sucks, so Verizon sent us some type of extender that piggy backs off of WiFi. I assume the dead zone affects internet too because we had the same modem and xfinity internet in VA and had zero issues. But now in CO, my PlayStation is laggy and it’s in the same room as the router. If you guys were getting a new system, what would it be? I assume Ubiquiti based off of the recommendations, but they have a lot to choose from. House is about 2,300 square feet, spread across three floors. Would love total coverage because we’ve only been here a few weeks and it’s a huge pain in the ass. The most intensive use would be streaming on two TVs at once. Total number of devices is 9 I think, but most of them wouldn’t be in use at the same time. The Verizon extender and our ADT system are two exceptions to that.
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As far as wifi router goes, I have a fairly old unit, Netgear R6100, have had it for 7 or 8 years. I tried to cut and paste the specs from their website:
WiFi Performance - AC1200 WiFi (300 Mbps + 867 Mbps)†
WiFi Range - Medium to large homes
WiFi Band - Simultaneous dual band 2.4 GHz & 5 GHz
Number of Ethernet Ports - Five (5) 10/100 (1 WAN and 4 LAN) Fast Ethernet ports with auto-sensing technology
Key Features - Faster WiFi—Now up to 1200 Mbps
Backward compatible with 802.11n
... blah blah blah
I've recently hooked up a workstation so I can work from home. When I download huge files, I plug in the cat5E cable and that sucker download huge autocad files like nothing. I was going to upgrade the router, but with this revelation, I'll save my money and buy ammo instead.
Adrenaline_6
09-23-19, 08:27
Thanks.
If I figure out the wiring, I may add a few of their cameras to cover my property. Any experience of those?
Not with their cameras. I just put in an Axis Companion recorder and some Axis M2025-LE cameras at my house. Looks good. The software is very easy. It sets up everything for you, updates the recorder and camera firmware on setup and Axis is pretty much the leader in IP cameras. Sure it is a little more costly than most other camera systems, but so is my DDM4V5 compared to a PSA.
Most of the cheap alternatives are Dahua or Hikvision Chinese cameras that are OEM'd to that company. The Hikvision cameras are very good for the money, bu there has been some security issues with their products (i.e. like an intentional backdoor hack that can default the recorders to the factory admin password). The ban on those 2 brands from government use just went into effect not too long ago. It is surprising how many government, federal and state, that were using them due to cost. Even Honeywell cameras are OEM version of Hikvision.
Adrenaline_6
09-23-19, 09:08
Ok, so I need help. We’re in our third house since I made this thread and struggling. Cell phone coverage sucks, so Verizon sent us some type of extender that piggy backs off of WiFi. I assume the dead zone affects internet too because we had the same modem and xfinity internet in VA and had zero issues. But now in CO, my PlayStation is laggy and it’s in the same room as the router. If you guys were getting a new system, what would it be? I assume Ubiquiti based off of the recommendations, but they have a lot to choose from. House is about 2,300 square feet, spread across three floors. Would love total coverage because we’ve only been here a few weeks and it’s a huge pain in the ass. The most intensive use would be streaming on two TVs at once. Total number of devices is 9 I think, but most of them wouldn’t be in use at the same time. The Verizon extender and our ADT system are two exceptions to that.
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If you are in the same room as the PS and it is still laggy I would try to plug it in directly to the router with a patch cable and see if it is still laggy. This would at least cross off your ISP as a problem.
Since you have 3 floors, you can have multiple WAP's with Ubiquiti and they will just handoff the device to the next WAP once the signal gets weak as you move to different areas.
Not with their cameras. I just put in an Axis Companion recorder and some Axis M2035-LE cameras at my house. Looks good. The software is very easy. It sets up everything for you, updates the recorder and camera firmware on setup and Axis is pretty much the leader in IP cameras. Sure it is a little more costly than most other camera systems, but so is my DDM4V5 compared to a PSA.
Most of the cheap alternatives are Dahua or Hikvision Chinese cameras that are OEM'd to that company. The Hikvision cameras are very good for the money, bu there has been some security issues with their products (i.e. like an intentional backdoor hack that can default the recorders to the factory admin password). The ban on those 2 brands from government use just went into effect not too long ago. It is surprising how many government, federal and state, that were using them due to cost. Even Honeywell cameras are OEM version of Hikvision.
Great info, thanks. I switched from a ZTE cell phone due to concerns around that kind of backdoor stuff. I'll check out the Axis cameras to compare.
If you are in the same room as the PS and it is still laggy I would try to plug it in directly to the router with a patch cable and see if it is still laggy. This would at least cross off your ISP as a problem.
I agree with this. I try to connect everything I can. Unless there's a
reason for it to use wifi I put it directly on the network.
I'm trying to uplate my house with rj45 drops around the house. Have my modem connect to a 24-port POE switch that's down in my basement. Most things will connect back to that and I have another 12-port switch in our game room which few consoles connect to.
Other than updating wiring I need to work on updating my modem as my Comcast provided one won't let me turn off SIP ALG, my VOIP phone that I use for work doesn't like it...
Yes,
2 Long Range APs should be able to cover that.
Good antenna placement is key.
Since you have 3 floors, you can have multiple WAP's with Ubiquiti and they will just handoff the device to the next WAP once the signal gets weak as you move to different areas.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-26-19, 11:20
If you are in the same room as the PS and it is still laggy I would try to plug it in directly to the router with a patch cable and see if it is still laggy. This would at least cross off your ISP as a problem.
Since you have 3 floors, you can have multiple WAP's with Ubiquiti and they will just handoff the device to the next WAP once the signal gets weak as you move to different areas.
Ubiquiti is what I use at home and it has been great. One AP upstairs and one downstairs.
Ive been specing a full Ubiquiti system for our new home build:
cloudkey gen 2+(will upgrade the drive to 5 terabyte)
security Gateway
16-150 poe switch
3x NanoHD AP's in the house(1 upstairs, 2 on main floor on separate sides of the house)
6 cameras(4x G3's and 2x G3 pro's)
-Front door(G3), Front wide angle from 2nd story(G3 Pro), rear patio door(G3), Back yard wide angle from 2nd story(G3 Pro), Driveway(G3), garage interior(G3).
-I dont think I want any camera's physically IN the house and with my plan for exterior coverage I should cover everything, but open to suggestions.
Then running fiber out to a detached shop via the SFP ports and out in the shop will have:
8-150 POE switch
1x NanoHD AP
4x cameras(likely all regular G3's with maybe 1 G3 Pro)
-interior of shop, interior of lean to shop, front of shop looking down driveway(this may overlap with the camera on the house, so probably only need one or the other), back side corner of shop looking at back yard wide angle(G3 Pro)
Ive been specing a full Ubiquiti system for our new home build:
cloudkey gen 2+(will upgrade the drive to 5 terabyte)
security Gateway
16-150 poe switch
3x NanoHD AP's in the house(1 upstairs, 2 on main floor on separate sides of the house)
6 cameras(4x G3's and 2x G3 pro's)
-Front door(G3), Front wide angle from 2nd story(G3 Pro), rear patio door(G3), Back yard wide angle from 2nd story(G3 Pro), Driveway(G3), garage interior(G3).
-I dont think I want any camera's physically IN the house and with my plan for exterior coverage I should cover everything, but open to suggestions.
Then running fiber out to a detached shop via the SFP ports and out in the shop will have:
8-150 POE switch
1x NanoHD AP
4x cameras(likely all regular G3's with maybe 1 G3 Pro)
-interior of shop, interior of lean to shop, front of shop looking down driveway(this may overlap with the camera on the house, so probably only need one or the other), back side corner of shop looking at back yard wide angle(G3 Pro)
Mind if I ask the square footage? I’m planning on just one AP upstairs and one in the basement, plus maybe one exterior camera to cover a gap in my ADT cameras. But I assume your house is huge compared to mine.
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Mind if I ask the square footage? I’m planning on just one AP upstairs and one in the basement, plus maybe one exterior camera to cover a gap in my ADT cameras. But I assume your house is huge compared to mine.
I think the final square footage will be like 3700. BUT its mostly a single story with only a game room and theater on the second floor so the first(main) floor pretty is spread out. Thats why I am thinking 3 AP's to get coverage over the whole house. And the Ubiquiti AP's, from what I read, focus their radio energy outwards, so ceiling mounting them, they dont radiate "up" but mainly "down" hence why I "think" I need one upstairs to cover that area. Probably overkill, but for the cost of Cat6 cable and $150 or there abouts for an AP, its not a huge cost item.
And my camera setup is probably overkill, but I feel like I want a fairly direct view of each exterior door plus a wide angle of the front and rear of the house.
That's a nice setup, should be able to handle 100-250 family members with no problem! :-)
I'd probably be thinking the AC LR's vs the Nano HD's, $100 less and still very good. You most likely will not be able to tell a performance difference with typical family usage.
But the nano HD is a very impressive AP for the money! And you'll be able to run a while without tech refresh.
One other thing to consider... if you are going to have a very typical firewall approach the unifi security device (firewall) will be fine. But if you deviate from the typical SOHO/consumer router too much you end up having to do tricks to get the unifi device to do it. It has the capability, just not through the interface.
I have a fairly complicated firewall setup/rules, so instead use the Edgerouter Light series. Much more granular control, but you lose the Unifi single point admin. And also some neat features in terms of the dashboard, etc.
You can do VLANs via Unifi, that part is not an issue. Same for guest networks, etc.
Likewise, if you used consumer grade routers without detailed firewall changes you'll be fine.
Thats why I am thinking 3 AP's to get coverage over the whole house. And the Ubiquiti AP's, from what I read, focus their radio energy outwards, so ceiling mounting them, they dont radiate "up" but mainly "down" hence why I "think" I need one upstairs to cover that area. Probably overkill, but for the cost of Cat6 cable and $150 or there abouts for an AP, its not a huge cost item.
Most homes can be covered with a couple of ubiquiti access points and no shadows. But three is not overkill.
UniFi ceiling mounts have antenna patterns like a donut laying flat on a table.
The gain is mostly in the horizontal axis plus or minus 20 or 30 degrees.
Anything in the same room directly under it or even the room above it is probably going to be fine. But beaming upwards through the floor and some distance you're likely going to get some weaker signals. So an access point on the second floor is probably a good idea.
Unifi lends itself well to having a larger number but less powerful access points situated wherever you need them to deal with shadows.
You are also going to be limited in throughput by most of your devices. Most phones and tablets cannot sustain even a basic AC throughput of 450 megabits per second. Much less the higher throughput.
So I now engineer more for no shadows and worry less about theoretical max speed.
Adrenaline_6
10-01-19, 12:11
To optimize your radiation pattern:
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115012664088-UniFi-Introduction-to-Antenna-Radiation-Patterns#1
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005212927#LR%20overall
That's a nice setup, should be able to handle 100-250 family members with no problem! :-)
I'd probably be thinking the AC LR's vs the Nano HD's, $100 less and still very good. You most likely will not be able to tell a performance difference with typical family usage.
But the nano HD is a very impressive AP for the money! And you'll be able to run a while without tech refresh.
One other thing to consider... if you are going to have a very typical firewall approach the unifi security device (firewall) will be fine. But if you deviate from the typical SOHO/consumer router too much you end up having to do tricks to get the unifi device to do it. It has the capability, just not through the interface.
Ive gone back and forth on the actual AP's. I was thinking of running the AC Pro which is a bit cheaper, then I keep coming back to the Nano is the newest technology from Ubiquiti and everything I read says Ubiquiti is going to be steering a ton of users towards the Nano as well as the support and development that that entails. So I think, at least for the next couple of years the Nano is going to be the AP to use. Im probably wrong about all of that, but who knows.
Most homes can be covered with a couple of ubiquiti access points and no shadows. But three is not overkill.
UniFi ceiling mounts have antenna patterns like a donut laying flat on a table.
The gain is mostly in the horizontal axis plus or minus 20 or 30 degrees.
Anything in the same room directly under it or even the room above it is probably going to be fine. But beaming upwards through the floor and some distance you're likely going to get some weaker signals. So an access point on the second floor is probably a good idea.
Unifi lends itself well to having a larger number but less powerful access points situated wherever you need them to deal with shadows.
You are also going to be limited in throughput by most of your devices. Most phones and tablets cannot sustain even a basic AC throughput of 450 megabits per second. Much less the higher throughput.
So I now engineer more for no shadows and worry less about theoretical max speed.
Thats what I understand and why I have decided to run 3 in the house plus 1 on the outside patio plus 1 in the shop. Should cover me and if I need more, I pull more wire.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-31-19, 14:35
What is a good app for an iPhone or an iPad to measure the capability and performance of a wireless network? Looking at upgrading to a mesh system. Bought the main router and wanted to try to quantify how good the connectivity is with some kind of performance rather than just trying websites in different parts of the house.
If anyone is having bandwidth throttling down issues this helped my situation.
We have a Linksys EA9500 router. Paying Spectrum for 100mbs down, fastest available in our area. For the last month or two we were topping at around 33 - 35mbs down, 10mbs up which was ok. Other owners having the same issue throttling down to about 33% of whatever bandwidth they are paying for. The fix others have temporary success is a factory reset and reconfigure.
I did not want to do that and resolved the issue by turning off IPv6 and there was no change. Turned IPv6 back on and instantly got the around 115mbs down on all devices. Posting this in case someone else is having issues. Possibly a release of IPv6 will resolve.
Zone Alarm firewall was also an issue on a Win 10 machine causing bandwidth loss.
Like to go to mesh someday but the Linksys EA9500 working as it should covers all our needs.
Adrenaline_6
11-01-19, 15:03
What is a good app for an iPhone or an iPad to measure the capability and performance of a wireless network? Looking at upgrading to a mesh system. Bought the main router and wanted to try to quantify how good the connectivity is with some kind of performance rather than just trying websites in different parts of the house.
iPerf for whatever device you have.
Most handheld devices throttle back and will not even saturate a N300 link. And many are not even N300, just N150 in the chipset.
The faster/more powerfull APs mainly increase *aggregate* throughput across many devices, not so much a single device.
Which is important, its not unusual for there to be 30 or more devices on a couple of my APs at times even at my home.
But if you want to test throughput you'll probably want to use a laptop known to be able to push N300 or AC speeds. Often even to get that you have to set the multimedia flag in windows drivers.
Also, mesh is just a self configuring set of APs. It has no speed advantage over the same number of similar non mesh APs. Actually is normally slower as the backhauls typically tie up 5 ghz channels and incur more hops. Typically the speed is reduced to 1/ number of hops * link speed (N300, etc)
The advantages of a mesh are:
- largely self-configuring, no separate controller (real meshes, anyway)
- can put access points without ethernet, at reduced speed/throughput (real and pseudo mesh like unifi)
- has resiliance if the ether or a backhaul fails.
Belmont31R
11-01-19, 19:27
Most handheld devices throttle back and will not even saturate a N300 link. And many are not even N300, just N150 in the chipset.
The faster/more powerfull APs mainly increase *aggregate* throughput across many devices, not so much a single device.
Which is important, its not unusual for there to be 30 or more devices on a couple of my APs at times even at my home.
But if you want to test throughput you'll probably want to use a laptop known to be able to push N300 or AC speeds. Often even to get that you have to set the multimedia flag in windows drivers.
Also, mesh is just a self configuring set of APs. It has no speed advantage over the same number of similar non mesh APs. Actually is normally slower as the backhauls typically tie up 5 ghz channels and incur more hops. Typically the speed is reduced to 1/ number of hops * link speed (N300, etc)
The advantages of a mesh are:
- largely self-configuring, no separate controller (real meshes, anyway)
- can put access points without ethernet, at reduced speed/throughput (real and pseudo mesh like unifi)
- has resiliance if the ether or a backhaul fails.
Bridging AP's and mesh are not the same thing. Newer/better mesh have a 3rd backend for backhaul that doesn't operate on the typical 2.4 and 5 ghz bandwidth. They also handle client handoff between AP's a lot better where bridging or just sticking AP's out there didn't negotiate handoff that well. You had to typically rely on the client device being smart enough.
We have one AP at home but I don't stick anything on the 5ghz SSID that isn't AC compatible. Even one N device cuts the speed in half. On a gig fiber connection so stuff that doesn't move gets a cat 6 cable.
All the "3 band" unlicensed mesh devices I'm aware of just use another 5 ghz channel and radio.
That helps, but is not really 3 band. There are only so many unlicensed wifi bands/channels. Outside of 2ghz, 5 Ghz, 900 mhz, and powerline, the others require licenses.
Understood that bridging two dumb access points does not bring advanced handoff, but that is not a defining characteristic of mesh, advanced handoff is a protocol that some mesh and some hybrid (like unifi) systems have. Sometimes its a standard protocol, other times its proprietary to the devices.
A 3 radio approach like some of the newer mesh products does make sense for some situations. But you do add latency each hop. I'll be keeping my APs on gig ethernet except for links to the barn, etc.
Likewise, I'm aware of multiple metro wifi systems that were mesh now converting to Unifi or similar. (Buddy is a WISP)
My point in all this is that mesh is not automatically faster or higher capacity relative comparable non-mesh systems. It has pros and cons. And for consumers who are not techie, probably more pros than cons.
There was a new "all in one" unifi device announced:
https://www.androidcentral.com/ubiquiti-launches-all-one-unifi-dream-machine-wi-fi-router?amp
Wont work for me, but may be of interest if you can colocate an AP with your WAN connection. My network/phone room is from pre-wifi days, so I still run separate FW-router / POE switches and APs.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-06-19, 19:26
I installed my Synology 2600ac last weekend and I'm pretty impressed with the interface. Had to talk to my son in a non-accusatory way about the porn filter ;). Waay better vision of what is going on versus my old ASUS router and software. Plays nice with my Synology NAS, which I upgraded from 6 to 12TB at the same time.
It says it has the third 5ghz radio for inter-router machine communication. I have two of the MESH MR2200ac routers arriving tomorrow. Retired an old apple time capsule router to just be a time capsule connected by 1000bit powerline adaptors act as a switch for the TV/AppleTV. It seems that AppleTV pulls about 5MB/sec for 4K TV?
What I have noticed is that my xfinity cable internet SUCKS for reliability. The Synology app is great for seeing when the internet has gone down. They have been working in our neighorbood recently, so hopefully that explains the daytime drop of service.
I installed my Synology 2600ac last weekend and I'm pretty impressed with the interface. Had to talk to my son in a non-accusatory way about the porn filter ;). Waay better vision of what is going on versus my old ASUS router and software. Plays nice with my Synology NAS, which I upgraded from 6 to 12TB at the same time.
It says it has the third 5ghz radio for inter-router machine communication. I have two of the MESH MR2200ac routers arriving tomorrow. Retired an old apple time capsule router to just be a time capsule connected by 1000bit powerline adaptors act as a switch for the TV/AppleTV. It seems that AppleTV pulls about 5MB/sec for 4K TV?
What I have noticed is that my xfinity cable internet SUCKS for reliability. The Synology app is great for seeing when the internet has gone down. They have been working in our neighorbood recently, so hopefully that explains the daytime drop of service.What do you keep on your NAS?
I got a WD my cloud disk less chassis and was going to start with 3TB drives and mirror them.
Was wondering how long it would take us to fill it up. Pretty much just plan to put pictures and some other files on it no movies or anything.
Wife said she had about 9000 pics on her iPhone currently.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-06-19, 21:07
What do you keep on your NAS?
I got a WD my cloud disk less chassis and was going to start with 3TB drives and mirror them.
Was wondering how long it would take us to fill it up. Pretty much just plan to put pictures and some other files on it no movies or anything.
Wife said she had about 9000 pics on her iPhone currently.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Couple of hundred thousand 20+MP Canon RAW files and Light Room 6 files. When I went to the 1DXII, I had to go to JPEGS- just to keep it sane and with a CFast card, I never fill the buffer and can shoot 14fps indefinitely. Have a fair amount of video on there too from GoPros that the kids use. The NAS is RAID1, so I have 6TBs of storage. I had an ancient version of DSM on the NAS before so I'm really interested in the newer back-ups. Over 5G (sitting next to the router) the NAS (connected by ethernet to the router) I really don't suffer much when editing and going through catalogs.
Really just a talking monkey on the NAS. It can do so much more than I'm really capable of. Next year I'm going to get desk-top 10Gb ethernet (I Run a MacBookPro2013 now) and get thunderbolt 3 SSD drives for current stuff and get a new NAS that has 10Gb ethernet for older stuff in RAID 0, and use the older NAS off-site at in-laws for back-ups. At least that is the way I'm leaning.
I'm growing at about 350GB of pics a year and another couple of hundred of video. JPgs are nothing. RAW/DNG files and video seem to be what drives it. Either deleting RAWS or processing and converting to jpgs the ones i want to actually keep would really help. I hope this will take me for the next three years.
Belmont31R
11-08-19, 20:14
All the "3 band" unlicensed mesh devices I'm aware of just use another 5 ghz channel and radio.
That helps, but is not really 3 band. There are only so many unlicensed wifi bands/channels. Outside of 2ghz, 5 Ghz, 900 mhz, and powerline, the others require licenses.
Understood that bridging two dumb access points does not bring advanced handoff, but that is not a defining characteristic of mesh, advanced handoff is a protocol that some mesh and some hybrid (like unifi) systems have. Sometimes its a standard protocol, other times its proprietary to the devices.
A 3 radio approach like some of the newer mesh products does make sense for some situations. But you do add latency each hop. I'll be keeping my APs on gig ethernet except for links to the barn, etc.
Likewise, I'm aware of multiple metro wifi systems that were mesh now converting to Unifi or similar. (Buddy is a WISP)
My point in all this is that mesh is not automatically faster or higher capacity relative comparable non-mesh systems. It has pros and cons. And for consumers who are not techie, probably more pros than cons.
There was a new "all in one" unifi device announced:
https://www.androidcentral.com/ubiquiti-launches-all-one-unifi-dream-machine-wi-fi-router?amp
Wont work for me, but may be of interest if you can colocate an AP with your WAN connection. My network/phone room is from pre-wifi days, so I still run separate FW-router / POE switches and APs.
The 3rd band is usually not something anyone would even access anyways and its all handled behind the scenes whereas bridging and multiple AP setups in the past required enterprise level equipment and had to be really configured to make sure the end points got the bandwidth they needed while things like guest devices didn't shut down your network hogging your connection. Mesh networks with good backend and AC for home use are a huge leap forward from the old days of a single connection to early wifi to N and even single point AC connections.
The "3rd band" is just another 5ghz channel, subject to the same wifi congestion/interference as your downlink 5ghz. You just don't have backhaul traffic on the same channel, which is a plus.
You keep mentioning bridging... Really makes me think you have not used/managed a unifi system. All APs are bridges to a certain extent, even mesh. (A bridge connects one segment to another)
Mesh just sets routing between nodes, automatically. It self assembles which is a good thing. Has resiliance. Wonderful for tanks and other mobile or adhoc networks. Or even home networks (now) if you are willing to trade off speed/capacity for convenience and are not in a congested rf environment. BTW, Most modern aps will coordinate handoff between them. Your client devices dont know, they are redirected via icmp type magic.
As to enterprise complexity, Unifi has free software that runs on everything newer than a c64. Or run it in a VM in the cloud. Only needed to do initial config or updates. Its basically the same settings you have to do for a mesh. Don't want to put software on a pc? Buy a $50-60 cloud key controller.
Not shilling for unifi... Its just you're making it sound way more complex than it is.
If you need a mesh (one ap on ether, the rest wireless), then use one. It solves a problem. But it is not magic, and will not have the capacity/throughput of similar tech hardwired APs will, by definition. Wifi backhauls have latency that ether does not.
Just for reference I have real, $3k per node mesh devices (tropos) sitting in my office to play with. As used in large scale metro wifi situations. I also have unifi devices running in standalone "mesh" mode using 5ghz backhauls on separate channels (they call it mesh, but its not in the true sense). And another mesh network running ARDEN mesh firmware on commercial point to point devices and APs for ham use.
So I manage and play with both.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-19, 12:25
By the number adding two Synology 1900ac routers brought every wireless connection to 'excellent' in the Synology router management software. Could have probably done it with on addition.
What if you run the mesh nodes off wireless on wired outlet-outlet? I have tried the latest 1000Mbps (bits, right) to run my TV/Apple TV from and they seem to work. The 500Mbps from about 5 years ago weren't so good. Do microwaves or washer/dryers jack with those?
I'd also like to turn off the 2.4/5 on my Xfinity moden/router- not sure if that can be done since they are trying to sell my house as a hotspot for people...
We are playing with ARs and Pinzgauer is playing with 105s and 155s....
ARs are deadly, reliable and fun! I started with Linksys, then went to dd-wrt firmware, then added some dumb aps as my phone room is horrible for wifi.
A WISP buddy put me onto unifi and one was added, then another, and later the linksys was replaced with a mikrotik router.
So my stuff grew organically. I am an old network/unix guy, so I've been dealing with routing and TCP/IP since the 80s. I know how it works inside, though you don't have to lately.
I get a lot of hand-me-down APs & backhauls taken out of service from my wisp buddy, so the beavers in the back 40 can have wifi. :) Including the big-gun tropos stuff.
I'm not anti mesh, they serve a need, if you need it (no wires). The ham mesh stuff im playing with would be invaluable for emergencies and I have a bunch of repurposed ubuiqiti hw running it.
Poked around a bit on handoff, turns out the new gen meshes all use the same protocols, 802.11 r,k, and v. Which unifi also supports. The client still decides which ap it wants to pick, but the new protocols give them info on whats around and allow faster handoff. One of them can request the client to switch, but it breaks some older clients. So some aps do not use that mode.
Old school there are tricks aps used to force a handoff and band steering, forced disconnects, selective speed responses, and slow responses. Some work better than others. That is normally used when a controller is involved and is the ICMP stuff I was referring to.
Not all clients support the new handoff protocols. Apple ios used to be very "sticky" about roaming. As was some windows drivers. Apparently IOS is pretty good now, as are some of the new android devices. Windows is hit or miss, both need the drivers and hw to support it.
One last thing, you can turn off your xfinity/comcast 2/5g. Put it in bridge mode. You can also turn off the xfinity hotspot, which I used to do but now leave on.
I know a few of you guys work with fiber. Ive never messed with fiber, dont have the fiber in my hands to measure connector size, etc...
im trying to ascertain the conduit diameter needed for what I want to pull. My builder is going to run conduit for me. Their basic sheet says 1" conduit(it has sweeps not hard 90's, I already asked), im not sure if they will install larger or if I need to get them to run me a second run.
Minimum run is 1 simplex fiber of OS2 with SC APC connector and 1 duplex OM3 with LC connectors... I am THINKING on going ahead and pulling a second set of each for redundancy, but with the conduit, and ability to remove and pull new later, I dont know that this is necessary. I believe the 1" conduit will be plenty large for what I want to pull. I can pull the OS2 fiber with the SC connector first, then pull the OM3 with LC connector second(maybe I can pull it all at once, I dont know). The physical cable is small from what I know, but the connectors, especially the SC is larger. I think where it might get tricky is if I want pull a second set of both cables, but I really have no clue. I'm ALSO contemplating pulling a Cat6 cable at the same time, although I dont know what use I really have for it except a "while im pulling cable, might as well".
So thoughts on if a 1" conduit is enough for what I want or should I have them install a second conduit?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-11-19, 07:48
I know a few of you guys work with fiber. Ive never messed with fiber, dont have the fiber in my hands to measure connector size, etc...
im trying to ascertain the conduit diameter needed for what I want to pull. My builder is going to run conduit for me. Their basic sheet says 1" conduit(it has sweeps not hard 90's, I already asked), im not sure if they will install larger or if I need to get them to run me a second run.
Minimum run is 1 simplex fiber of OS2 with SC APC connector and 1 duplex OM3 with LC connectors... I am THINKING on going ahead and pulling a second set of each for redundancy, but with the conduit, and ability to remove and pull new later, I dont know that this is necessary. I believe the 1" conduit will be plenty large for what I want to pull. I can pull the OS2 fiber with the SC connector first, then pull the OM3 with LC connector second(maybe I can pull it all at once, I dont know). The physical cable is small from what I know, but the connectors, especially the SC is larger. I think where it might get tricky is if I want pull a second set of both cables, but I really have no clue. I'm ALSO contemplating pulling a Cat6 cable at the same time, although I dont know what use I really have for it except a "while im pulling cable, might as well".
So thoughts on if a 1" conduit is enough for what I want or should I have them install a second conduit?
I read this and then think, does 5G make all of this irrelevant kind of like the guy who ran CAT5 in my house in the early 90s only to have wireless surpass it in utility?
5g as in cell phone 5g? I think, so far, thats proving to not be as good as its made out to be... I mean, maybe if they install a tower in my house... since it seems a simple brick wall kills the 5g signal.
My purpose for running fiber is two fold: get AT&T fiber 1 gig internet into my house and connect 2 Ubiqitui POE switches together via fiber. The Ubiquiti cameras and AP's connect to their switches and I can connect two switches together via SFP fiber. Im building a shop and want wifi and cameras out in the shop.
Adrenaline_6
11-11-19, 08:02
I know a few of you guys work with fiber. Ive never messed with fiber, dont have the fiber in my hands to measure connector size, etc...
im trying to ascertain the conduit diameter needed for what I want to pull. My builder is going to run conduit for me. Their basic sheet says 1" conduit(it has sweeps not hard 90's, I already asked), im not sure if they will install larger or if I need to get them to run me a second run.
Minimum run is 1 simplex fiber of OS2 with SC APC connector and 1 duplex OM3 with LC connectors... I am THINKING on going ahead and pulling a second set of each for redundancy, but with the conduit, and ability to remove and pull new later, I dont know that this is necessary. I believe the 1" conduit will be plenty large for what I want to pull. I can pull the OS2 fiber with the SC connector first, then pull the OM3 with LC connector second(maybe I can pull it all at once, I dont know). The physical cable is small from what I know, but the connectors, especially the SC is larger. I think where it might get tricky is if I want pull a second set of both cables, but I really have no clue. I'm ALSO contemplating pulling a Cat6 cable at the same time, although I dont know what use I really have for it except a "while im pulling cable, might as well".
So thoughts on if a 1" conduit is enough for what I want or should I have them install a second conduit?
1 conduit is enough as long as its big enough. Always rub the biggest you can get away with. If you need to keep it small, run multiple ones. You never know when you want or need to run something else in there later. Remember high voltage and low voltage cannot be run together so plan accordingly. Usually if you want to protect the fiber, a innerduct sleeve can be pulled in the conduit to protect the fiber from the friction of the other cable being pulled. The connectors are spliced onto the fiber after the fact, so that should be a non issue unless they are pulilng premade jumpers which is a bad idea...they are not made for that and aren't protected well enough to keep themselves from damage.
Usually it is cheaper to pull a 6 strand fiber than a 2 strand. 6 strand is more common and available than a 2 strand and usually cheaper. With 6 strands, you will have 2 spare pairs in each fiber, so you should be good short of someone cutting the conduit in half. If you aren't going far, the single mode isn't really needed, you should be able to get the speed you need with duplex MM, but hey, wth, you never know right?
1 conduit is enough as long as its big enough. Always rub the biggest you can get away with. If you need to keep it small, run multiple ones. You never know when you want or need to run something else in there later. Remember high voltage and low voltage cannot be run together so plan accordingly. Usually if you want to protect the fiber, a innerduct sleeve can be pulled in the conduit to protect the fiber from the friction of the other cable being pulled. The connectors are spliced onto the fiber after the fact, so that should be a non issue unless they are pulilng premade jumpers which is a bad idea...they are not made for that and aren't protected well enough to keep themselves from damage.
Usually it is cheaper to pull a 6 strand fiber than a 2 strand. 6 strand is more common and available than a 2 strand and usually cheaper. With 6 strands, you will have 2 spare pairs in each fiber, so you should be good short of someone cutting the conduit in half. If you aren't going far, the single mode isn't really needed, you should be able to get the speed you need with duplex MM, but hey, wth, you never know right?
I understand 1 conduit is enough... My question was is 1"(INCH) conduit large enough.
Im planning to pull pre-terminated because I have no way to terminate(LC UPC doesnt seem to bad, but still requires a 125 dollar tool at a minimum). Im planning to order from FS.com which sells pre-terminated fiber setup for pulling with pulling eyes that protect the connectors.
And single mode is needed with the AT&T fiber, so I cant just pull a 6 strand duplex MM cable and be done with it.
Adrenaline_6
11-11-19, 08:34
I understand 1 conduit is enough... My question was is 1"(INCH) conduit large enough.
Im planning to pull pre-terminated because I have no way to terminate(LC UPC doesnt seem to bad, but still requires a 125 dollar tool at a minimum). Im planning to order from FS.com which sells pre-terminated fiber setup for pulling with pulling eyes that protect the connectors.
And single mode is needed with the AT&T fiber, so I cant just pull a 6 strand duplex MM cable and be done with it.
Gotcha. I didn't know you were having to do the terminations. I mentioned that if you want to plan for the future, lay more than 1 conduit if you can get away with it...especially if you are limited to a 1".
I am not familiar with the pre-terminated fiber, so I am not sure how thick it is. The unterminated 6 strand fiber is pretty small, smaller than a normal Cat5e, so if that is the diameter than 1" is plenty. Just the premade connectors are the limiting factor.
If the fiber running to the second location is just for connecting the 2 Ubiquiti switches together, than the single mode is still not needed, you will just need the appropriate MM fiber LC SFP modules on both ends.
I am not familiar with the pre-terminated fiber, so I am not sure how thick it is. The unterminated 6 strand fiber is pretty small, smaller than a normal Cat5e, so if that is the diameter than 1" is plenty. Just the premade connectors are the limiting factor.
If the fiber running to the second location is just for connecting the 2 Ubiquiti switches together, than the single mode is still not needed, you will just need the appropriate MM fiber LC SFP modules on both ends.
I need BOTH TYPES OF FIBER FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES....
So you can tell me "single mode is not needed" all day long and I will still reply "yes it is"...because AT&T runs over single mode...
I will be connecting the switches with the OM3 MM cable...
So I need a run of simplex OS2 single mode for AT&T and a run of duplex OM3 MM to connect the switches together.
As far as the pre-terminated cables, thats why I posed my question because, I dont know how physically large the connectors are either and if its possible to pull, at the same time, at least the minimum required, if not more. I do know the LC duplex connectors are basically the same size as a simplex SC connector. Thats why LC was invented to replace SC. As far as the cable, its not any thicker than non pre-terminated, thats not really what I am concerned about
Adrenaline_6
11-11-19, 09:50
I need BOTH TYPES OF FIBER FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES....
So you can tell me "single mode is not needed" all day long and I will still reply "yes it is"...because AT&T runs over single mode...
I will be connecting the switches with the OM3 MM cable...
So I need a run of simplex OS2 single mode for AT&T and a run of duplex OM3 MM to connect the switches together.
As far as the pre-terminated cables, thats why I posed my question because, I dont know how physically large the connectors are either and if its possible to pull, at the same time, at least the minimum required, if not more. I do know the LC duplex connectors are basically the same size as a simplex SC connector. Thats why LC was invented to replace SC. As far as the cable, its not any thicker than non pre-terminated, thats not really what I am concerned about
Dude....I am trying to help you here...and since I don't completely know your whole situation I don't know exactly what you may or may not need. I said you may not need the single mode, if all you were doing was connecting the switches together, I never said you don't need the single mode. I don't know what else you are doing, so I was trying to help save you unnecessary cost if possible. I am throwing things out there with the information I have, so lose that slight attitude.
You can get a single mode SC to LC adapter if the SC size is a concern.
Are you looking for this?
I'd think 1" is okay, unless you have the pair coupled together already. I have an SC to LC adapter here and the SC side looks to be pretty close to an inch.
Sorry I don't happen to have a ruler on me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191111/b3e4b5a841e442a7109623443ee4077c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191111/742d9cff9b29c34ec91ef4fc4282ed74.jpg
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Are you looking for this?
I'd think 1" is okay, unless you have the pair coupled together already. I have an SC to LC adapter here and the SC side looks to be pretty close to an inch.
Sorry I don't happen to have a ruler on me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191111/b3e4b5a841e442a7109623443ee4077c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191111/742d9cff9b29c34ec91ef4fc4282ed74.jpg
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yea I saw the technical descriptions. Im only running single connector SC simplex. Yours is a duplex. So one of those. A single SC connector is supposed to be similar in size to an LC duplex.
I ordered two cheap cables off of Amazon to see if I can pull them both through 1" conduit.
Dude....I am trying to help you here...and since I don't completely know your whole situation I don't know exactly what you may or may not need. I said you may not need the single mode, if all you were doing was connecting the switches together, I never said you don't need the single mode. I don't know what else you are doing, so I was trying to help save you unnecessary cost if possible. I am throwing things out there with the information I have, so lose that slight attitude.
You can get a single mode SC to LC adapter if the SC size is a concern.
Sorry, just getting frustrated through this process(and not limited to this one question) when I say "I need/want to do X" and people comment on why I dont need to do X and should do Y instead...and then the question never gets answered because the discussion goes in 99 different directions. Building a house is frustrating as hell when there are things I dont know about, yet trying to make decisions that cant easily be changed.
Adrenaline_6
11-11-19, 18:49
Sorry, just getting frustrated through this process(and not limited to this one question) when I say "I need/want to do X" and people comment on why I dont need to do X and should do Y instead...and then the question never gets answered because the discussion goes in 99 different directions. Building a house is frustrating as hell when there are things I dont know about, yet trying to make decisions that cant easily be changed.
Ok, cool, well like I said, and you said, you might as well run more than 1 conduit since they are trenching already. If you aren't too worried about db loss on the multiple connections, and the SC connectors size are a concern, try the adapters.
Just throwing another thing out there. You might have already weighed this out, I don't know but the cost of the pre terminated cable vs pulling the unterminated cable and paying a structured cable company to come terminate the end for you might offset themselves and in the end give you more pairs for spare.
Ok, cool, well like I said, and you said, you might as well run more than 1 conduit since they are trenching already. If you aren't too worried about db loss on the multiple connections, and the SC connectors size are a concern, try the adapters.
Just throwing another thing out there. You might have already weighed this out, I don't know but the cost of the pre terminated cable vs pulling the unterminated cable and paying a structured cable company to come terminate the end for you might offset themselves and in the end give you more pairs for spare.
NOT in a trench... Running this in the walls... If I was trenching in conduit I would be trenching 3" conduit, maybe even 4"...
As far as pre-terminated, the cost isnt that much. Im seeing 30m of OM3, 6 fiber for like 40 bucks... thats no connectors. Pre-terminated is 65 for the same. Pre-terminated 4 fiber is like 45 bucks. A 2 strand is only 17 bucks... The OS2 simplex with SC APC for 30m is only 6 bucks...
So the cost is very cheap for pre-terminated. I cant imagine what somebody would charge to come out and do in essence 6 terminations... Im guessing easily 100 bucks, if not 200 bucks...
I'll defer to you guys on the fiber, I know just enough to be dangerous.
What I do know is ATT locally runs fiber to the termination point of your choice on your structure for gigabit internet. Multiple buddies have it. So I'm surprised you'd be having to run fiber for that. Some terminate there and run cat 6 to the router.
I can get ATT gigabit, have considered it, but their TV options suck and it does not make sense to have internet from ATT and cable from xfinity. So I got a very good deal on Xfinity "Gigabit". Which is still darn fast (800-900 Mbit), but only approximates 1G, and that only down. (where ATT gig is the real deal and bidirectional)
I'll defer to you guys on the fiber, I know just enough to be dangerous.
What I do know is ATT locally runs fiber to the termination point of your choice on your structure for gigabit internet. Multiple buddies have it. So I'm surprised you'd be having to run fiber for that. Some terminate there and run cat 6 to the router.
AT&T fiber runs into the house now. The ONT box where the fiber converts to cat cable used to be installed outside, but as of ~2 years ago(from what I can read on the AT&T forums) the box is installed inside now and they run fiber all the way into the house and their ONT is now mounted inside where it converts to Cat cable to their router. Their fiber from the street to the service entrance demarc box, they terminate, but from the demarc box to the house is pre-terminated in 25, 50 or 75 foot lengths. They will, from what I have read, use your cable from the demarc box to their ONT as long as its the correct cable(OS2 with SC APC connections), so thats my plan.
The other thing I have found out about AT&T fiber is that you can eliminate their router from the system by using your router and spoofing it to "look" like the AT&T router. This can really increase your speeds from what I am reading. I need to do more research on that though.
Adrenaline_6
11-12-19, 08:03
AT&T fiber runs into the house now. The ONT box where the fiber converts to cat cable used to be installed outside, but as of ~2 years ago(from what I can read on the AT&T forums) the box is installed inside now and they run fiber all the way into the house and their ONT is now mounted inside where it converts to Cat cable to their router. Their fiber from the street to the service entrance demarc box, they terminate, but from the demarc box to the house is pre-terminated in 25, 50 or 75 foot lengths. They will, from what I have read, use your cable from the demarc box to their ONT as long as its the correct cable(OS2 with SC APC connections), so thats my plan.
The other thing I have found out about AT&T fiber is that you can eliminate their router from the system by using your router and spoofing it to "look" like the AT&T router. This can really increase your speeds from what I am reading. I need to do more research on that though.
Now I see a little better at what you are trying to accomplish. I am guessing you really don't want their ONT in the location you are pulling the fiber from or you wouldn't be bothering with this. I guess preterminated isn't that pricey, the only downfall with preterminated is length. You are stuck with a preset length and have to coil up the excess somewhere. It is a good idea to have a small coil on both sides anyway for servicing anyway.
Are you putting the initial connection point from AT&T to your fiber outside the house in a splice box or LIU then going to your second location?
Whats the first switch for and where is that located?
I know, lots of questions, but I like to understand the whole scope, that way I can better understand the design and what it is accomplishing. I am a Sales Engineer for a commercial security company, so that's what I do. Not so much alarms anymore, that was in a past life, I design IP camera and access control systems from the ground up which includes connectivity of the devices to the network. I see your a pilot also...kudos. I graduated from ERAU in Daytona with an Aeronautical Science degree and got my multi, commercial, instrument ratings. I am not current anymore though, so it's just on paper now. Yup...wasted that education and money...lol.
If you don't want to explain everything that is cool man, I just have the type of mind that likes to see the whole picture and see all the cogs turning to better understand things and maximize design efficiency.
Pre-terminated cables at FS.com can be bought in any length you want. They make them to order and really arent any more expensive than "in stock" type, just take about a week to get. Once I know how long my run needs to be ill order cables.
I have a demarc box I bought for outside the house. AFL OPN-500. Its got a 6 position coupling piece. I have 2 SC-APC simplex couplers and 2 LC UPC duplex couplers, and 2 more spare positions.
The AT&T fiber will run to their ONT then into their router(if I can figure out how to bypass their router I will) then into a firewall/router(either Unifi Security Gateway or the Security Gateway Pro4...OR the Ui Dream Machine Pro if its released in time), then to the switch. The Pro4 and the Dream Machine both have SFP so I can run SFP fiber from their to the switch. If I do the regular Security Gateway it will be Cat6 to the switch. The Unifi Cloudkey Gen2+ which has the NVR built in(again unless the Dream Machine is released prior to my purchasing things, it has NVR built in) will also be connected to the switch.
Switch inside the house will be a 16 port POE switch feeding 5 or 6 Ubiquiti AP's and probably 6 or 7 cameras. Then I will run SFP via OM3 with LC duplex connectors out to my shop when I build it next year to an 8 port POE switch that will run an AP and probably 3 cameras.
Still thinking through a rack mount NAS of some kind, I like what I see in the Synology stuff on the last page of this thread, but need to research that stuff more.
I will be stuffing everything in 9u Tripplite wall mount rack.
Adrenaline_6
11-12-19, 08:44
Pre-terminated cables at FS.com can be bought in any length you want. They make them to order and really arent any more expensive than "in stock" type, just take about a week to get. Once I know how long my run needs to be ill order cables.
I have a demarc box I bought for outside the house. AFL OPN-500. Its got a 6 position coupling piece. I have 2 SC-APC simplex couplers and 2 LC UPC duplex couplers, and 2 more spare positions.
The AT&T fiber will run to their ONT then into their router(if I can figure out how to bypass their router I will) then into a firewall/router(either Unifi Security Gateway or the Security Gateway Pro4...OR the Ui Dream Machine Pro if its released in time), then to the switch. The Pro4 and the Dream Machine both have SFP so I can run SFP fiber from their to the switch. If I do the regular Security Gateway it will be Cat6 to the switch. The Unifi Cloudkey Gen2+ which has the NVR built in(again unless the Dream Machine is released prior to my purchasing things, it has NVR built in) will also be connected to the switch.
Switch inside the house will be a 16 port POE switch feeding 5 or 6 Ubiquiti AP's and probably 6 or 7 cameras. Then I will run SFP via OM3 with LC duplex connectors out to my shop when I build it next year to an 8 port POE switch that will run an AP and probably 3 cameras.
Still thinking through a rack mount NAS of some kind, I like what I see in the Synology stuff on the last page of this thread, but need to research that stuff more.
I will be stuffing everything in 9u Tripplite wall mount rack.
Awesome! The crappy thing about the AT&T router is you cannot bridge it. I bounce back between AT&T and Spectrum every year because they give better deals to new clients, so I play their stupid game. I am with Spectrum now, but the AT&T ONT is still hooked up near my router ready for next years inevitable switch off. You have to make one port on the AT&T router a DMZ zone which passes all traffic through it to your router. It's stupid and the AT&T bastards need to change that or provide just a modem like Spectrum does or allow an aftermarket modem to be used. Not sure about the spoofing part, since I am currently on the Spectrum plan this year, but will look into it when I have to switch again.
My buddy who is also a pilot (Fedex) looked at Synology since he already had one of their NAS for his media server and found that there are camera licensing costs past 2 I think? He hates expensive licensing so he skipped that option. You might not mind.
Is still am somehow missing what the MM fiber is doing at the Demarc location and what is it feeding. Also, can the premade connectors fit through the watertight connectors of the AFL OPN-500 at the demarc point? If they can do that, they will fit in the 1" conduit no problem.
Didn't you mention connecting 2 switches via fiber? Where is the second switch location? or is that the future shop you were talking about?
Awesome! The crappy thing about the AT&T router is you cannot bridge it. I bounce back between AT&T and Spectrum every year because they give better deals to new clients, so I play their stupid game. I am with Spectrum now, but the AT&T ONT is still hooked up near my router ready for next years inevitable switch off. You have to make one port on the AT&T router a DMZ zone which passes all traffic through it to your router. It's stupid and the AT&T bastards need to change that or provide just a modem like Spectrum does or allow an aftermarket modem to be used. Not sure about the spoofing part, since I am currently on the Spectrum plan this year, but will look into it when I have to switch again.
My buddy who is also a pilot (Fedex) looked at Synology since he already had one of their NAS for his media server and found that there are camera licensing costs past 2 I think? He hates expensive licensing so he skipped that option. You might not mind.
Is still am somehow missing what the MM fiber is doing at the Demarc location and what is it feeding. Also, can the premade connectors fit through the watertight connectors of the AFL OPN-500 at the demarc point? If they can do that, they will fit in the 1" conduit no problem.
Didn't you mention connecting 2 switches via fiber? Where is the second switch location? or is that the future shop you were talking about?
From what I am understanding to spoof the AT&T router/wireless you hook everything up with the AT&T router, get online, then there are a bunch of settings you have to pull off of it, you then program your router to match those settings and then put your router in place of the AT&T router, without powering anything down. If you lose power you have to hook the AT&T router back up and start over because the AT&T router is what does the initial handshake with the AT&T servers. I read that AT&T can force a "hand shake", but rarely ever do. Worse case is you go offline and have to go through the process again.
As far as the Synology, im just looking at their dual HD 1U rack mount setup to use as an NAS. The Ubiquiti cameras have their own NVR.
And yes the MM is to run between the two Ubiquiti switches via SFP adapters.
And this whole discussion became basically a moot point when the builder low voltage rep told me today they can do 1.5" conduit no problem...wish he had told me that last week when I asked about 1.5" conduit vs. the 1" .
speaking of IT issues...
The forum keeps double posting again...
Adrenaline_6
11-13-19, 07:57
From what I am understanding to spoof the AT&T router/wireless you hook everything up with the AT&T router, get online, then there are a bunch of settings you have to pull off of it, you then program your router to match those settings and then put your router in place of the AT&T router, without powering anything down. If you lose power you have to hook the AT&T router back up and start over because the AT&T router is what does the initial handshake with the AT&T servers. I read that AT&T can force a "hand shake", but rarely ever do. Worse case is you go offline and have to go through the process again.
As far as the Synology, im just looking at their dual HD 1U rack mount setup to use as an NAS. The Ubiquiti cameras have their own NVR.
And yes the MM is to run between the two Ubiquiti switches via SFP adapters.
And this whole discussion became basically a moot point when the builder low voltage rep told me today they can do 1.5" conduit no problem...wish he had told me that last week when I asked about 1.5" conduit vs. the 1" .
Well, good for you. Problem solved! The spoofing thing sounds like a pain in the ass. You know a handshake will occur right when you are watching the Super Bowl or College Bowl game (I stream all my tv)...in the 4th quarter...final drive for the win. That AT&T router takes forever to boot up. I would be cussing and throwing a fit while my wife would be wondering wtf was happening as I reboot everything while constantly swearing at nobody. LOL
Good luck with the Ubiquiti cameras, I like their premise, but I don't have any professional experience using them. Their lower end stuff has not tested very well through IPVM (an IP camera testing and reviewing website for the industry), but they have not really tested their Pro stuff as of yet, so it might be that they have improved things a lot in that lineup. IPVM should test it, they haven't really gone back to test their new stuff at all yet. I really wish Ubiquiti would offer 3rd party support of cameras and allow other cameras to be used on their NVR and just charge a licensing fee if using 3rd party and get a free license if buying their camera. I think their surveillance side would absolutely blow up and they would make a killing, but what do I know.
The spoofing thing may indeed be a PITA, but from what I am reading, their router can modify something(packets????) in real time and slow your speeds down, but when you take it out of the loop, obviously they cant do that and peoples speeds go up dramatically. As far as the handshake thing, one guy said he went like 18 months or something between handshakes. I dont think its "wide spread" of people spoofing their routers so AT&T probably doesnt watch for it regularly. I am planning on running a UPS on all this equipment so power outages shouldnt affect me unless it goes on for a long time.
As far as the Ubiquiti cameras, I havent read much bad on them. There is some app functionality people wish was different, but Ubiquiti seems to be transitioning their camera line into a product family called "Protect" which will also include some home access things, security and the like. The dedicated NVR going away and integrating with the Cloud Key I think is the first step. The Dream Machine rack mount product I think is the next evolution(im waiting to purchase stuff until closer to home closing so I can hopefully get a dream machine vs. 2 or 3 separate pieces as they are today). As far as the physical camera's go, I think only 2 of their current cameras get a bad rap: the micro and the dome. The micro is a wifi camera I believe and the dome isnt sealed so the "dome" gets dusty, condensation, etc... Im planning on using 3 of the Flex's, 2 G3 Pro's(for the wide angle) and 1 or 2 of the regular G3's.
So I have no idea what the last few pages have been about, but I'm tired of the shit coverage in my house. For some reason, my phone keeps picking up the basement network even though I think its weaker when I'm on the main floor so that's just adding to the issues I was trying to fix. What Ubiquiti stuff do I need from Amazon to replace my current modem/router combo and add one extender/handshake/whatever in the basement and second story?
Is this (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-802-11ac-Dual-Radio-UAP-AC-PRO-US/dp/B015PRO512/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=ubiquiti&qid=1573656089&sr=8-3) the starting point?
I dont know the "basics" of what you need because I am going more high end.
Your current modem would remain.
What I would get as a basic setup would be:
cloudkey (I think the basic gen1 are like 99 bucks, gen 2 are like 169 on amazon). This allows you to control your unifi setup. I think a cloud key is mandatory, but maybe there is a work around. Im going to run the Cloud Key Gen 2+ with built in NVR(unless the Dream Machine comes out before that).
security gateway. $139. This acts as a router and firewall. Some people will say optional if you dont need the router(you likely dont) or firewall(thats a question only you can answer).
switch with POE: you could get by with the Unifi Switch 8 150w. You dont HAVE to use ubiquiti switches, there is nothing magic about them I dont think. Probably can find something with POE for cheaper or use a non poe switch and use the POE injectors that the AP's will include(I believe all single pack AP's include a poe injector as standard).
Then you need your AP's. The Pro's are the sweet spot IMO and is what I will be running. The AC Lite "looks" good on the price front, but if you have any devices that can run 3x3 mimo(I do) then the lite doesnt have that.
I dont believe you can just hook the AP's up to a router/switch with no way to control them, which is where the cloud key comes in, but again, maybe there is a way. I am not terribly savvy with this as my setup will be my first foray into Ubiquiti.
Adrenaline_6
11-13-19, 15:01
So I have no idea what the last few pages have been about, but I'm tired of the shit coverage in my house. For some reason, my phone keeps picking up the basement network even though I think its weaker when I'm on the main floor so that's just adding to the issues I was trying to fix. What Ubiquiti stuff do I need from Amazon to replace my current modem/router combo and add one extender/handshake/whatever in the basement and second story?
Is this (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-802-11ac-Dual-Radio-UAP-AC-PRO-US/dp/B015PRO512/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=ubiquiti&qid=1573656089&sr=8-3) the starting point?
Yes, that would be your starting point. The CloudKey allows you to have the Unifi controller running at all times and allows you to access it via web interface. If you have just one AP, you don't need the Unifi controller running at all times, just when you do programming adjustments and initial setup. You can load the Unifii controller on a workstation or laptop, do your programming, then turn it off. Every so often it is a good idea to update your Controller to the latest version and also update your AP to the newest firmware using the same Controller software.
Ubiquiti also just released their Beacon HD https://store.ui.com/products/uap-beaconhd which extends the range of your Ubiquiti AP by just plugging it in to an AC outlet and mesh hopping. This way youstill don't need a 2nd AP and a local running Unifi controller unless that is what you want.
Is this (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-802-11ac-Dual-Radio-UAP-AC-PRO-US/dp/B015PRO512/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=ubiquiti&qid=1573656089&sr=8-3) the starting point?
Here’s a quote from my earlier post once I got it all done. It’s been rock solid so far.
Finally got around to ordering the Unifi gear. Went with the USG, Cloudkey, 8 port switch and an LR AP. I set everything up on a bench first to run through the Youtube video I found. It was very easy to follow and there were basically no gotcha's.
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Stupid question but what does the switch do? Does it just allow me to plug in several different cat 5 cables for a direct connection instead of doing wifi?
Stupid question but what does the switch do? Does it just allow me to plug in several different cat 5 cables for a direct connection instead of doing wifi?Hey Wake.
No dumb questions. You are exactly right. Let's you connect a bunch of network devices together. They come as small as 4 ports or so up to typically 48. They vary in speeds 10/100/1000. You can also get ones that have POE (power over ethernet). POE is good for powering VOIP phones or cameras, stuff like that.
Edit to add more:
I work at a phone company, most of the phones we install will end up on a POE switch that either we sell/rent them or one of theirs if they are providing them. We normally but not always separate the voice and data traffic with VLANs. We then route the data traffic out their firewall and the voice traffic to a router we will have onsite.
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I'm wondering if all of this stuff is way more complicated than I need. I'd only use two ports - one for the PS4 and one for the Verizon network extender and just something strong enough to cover the whole house.
I'm wondering if all of this stuff is way more complicated than I need. I'd only use two ports - one for the PS4 and one for the Verizon network extender and just something strong enough to cover the whole house.What kind of modem do you have?
My comcast one comes with 4 ports, if you have a similar setup that may be all you need.
I have a 24 port in my basement and a 12 port in our play room that has a ps3, ps2 and a raspberry pi in it.
I hope to install cameras at some point and will use the 24 port to power them.
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Adrenaline_6
11-13-19, 20:29
I'm wondering if all of this stuff is way more complicated than I need. I'd only use two ports - one for the PS4 and one for the Verizon network extender and just something strong enough to cover the whole house.
If you already have a modem/router with 4 ports on it, that is all you need along with the Ubiquiti AP for starters. The AP will take 1 of those 4 ports and you will use 2 more and have 1 spare. Then just get into your router webpage and turn off the existIng WiFi on that router because you will no longer need it due to the new AP you will be adding. All you will need to do is run a Cat5e or Cat6 cable from your router to your desired centralized AP location.
I have a Netgear C6220 so only two ports unfortunately. The PS4 is plugged into it and right now is showing a download speed of 130.5 MBPS and upload speed of 3.0 MBPS. My iPhone X that’s maybe 10 feet away is showing download of 13.22 and upload of 6.03. When I go upstairs about the furthest corner of the house, I get 13.23 and 11.34. The last one doesn’t seem right but I guess it was at least when I tested it.
I don’t know if any of that means anything. This is the first house we’ve ever had serious trouble covering, but cell service sucks in the neighborhood too.
My xfinity plan is supposed to include download speeds up to 500 MBPS. I know it probably wouldn’t regardless of what equipment I have, but still.
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You need a switch to connect more than 1 or 2 items to your router.
If you run Ubiquiti AP's you will need one, especially if you want to keep your PS4 hard wired.
The AP's need POE which you can either buy the POE capable switch or you can use POE injectors. The switch is the cleaner way. The injectors is the cheaper way.
If you have a free port on your router you can add an AP there without adding a switch.
Most of the Unifi APs have historically come with poe injectors (power over ethernet), so its just a matter of cabling at that point.
You don't need a dedicated or 24x7 to get started. The unifi controller software will run on windows, mac, linux, or even NAS or similar.
I ran my initial unifi APs for over 2 years just using the controller software on a mac when i needed to make a config chg or firmware update. They do not need the controller to operate, just for config. And I started with one sharing an ssid with my consumer grade router.
So you could add an AP for $65-85 and fill in the hole. Or spend much more on matching ap's.
You will likely want a 24x7 controller down the road, and cloudkeys (controller dongle) are cheap. And now they have integrated devices.
As you add devices and APs it will be handy to add a switch to get more ether ports. I used dumb switches (and still do for some things, GS108s) for a long time. And if you plan to have cameras and multi APs, a POE switch makes sense to eliminate multiple POE injectors. You also get more control with a managed switch.
As to the cameras, rarely are the hard core camera guys happy with the unifi approach. No pan/tilt, few 4k options, 24 camera limit, etc.
But they are cheap (good value), reliable, easy to use/manage centrally, and have no license fees. Just easy to setup a house, office, marina, etc. You can run the base software on pcs or their nvrs. I'm playing with a flex and for $85 and no license fees its a nice unit. I'm running the nvr on an old laptop. You access it via http, so it can sit in a closet.
If you like to tinker with your cameras and play with different software, you'll want something else. If you just want them to work, be easy to manage/maintain, then unifis are an easy pic.
I have a Netgear C6220 so only two ports unfortunately.
Snip
My xfinity plan is supposed to include download speeds up to 500 MBPS. I know it probably wouldn’t regardless of what equipment I have, but still.
Many consumer routers can't handle even 100-150 mbps while doing NAT, etc.
Biggest hint is if the wan is not gigabit ether, you'll never see full speeds.
Even with gig ether wan, many routers don't have enough cou or hw offloading to run faster. I was grumbling at xfinity until I switch over from my older mikrotik router to an edgerouter capable of 1gbit throughput with NAT, etc.
You may want to test at the cable modem with a known good gig ether device... Most have basic firewalls in place unless you put them in bridge mode. If it does not get close to advertised, have comcast come out to address.
Lastly, many handheld devices throttle down. Or will only do N150, etc. Ive learned not to trust handheld devices for meaningful speed tests. Just not enough cpu.
Ahh, I see the Netgear C6220 is a docsis 3.0 device. Their spec sheet says download up to 340 mbps. You'll need a 3.1 device to go faster.
You should still see an easy 300 from a gig ether device direct connected. If not, check to see how many channels/streams are bonded.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-14-19, 01:33
While we have the tech heads here, I'm looking for a way to merge two different USB cameras into one image. I see a hardware way to do it, but $1995 is more than I really wanted to pay. I thought $19.95 for an app to do it would be too much..
https://inogeni.com/product/inogeni-share-2u
We have too big of a screen for our web room. Put the camera below it and it is too low and you see the front people and the ceiling. On top and it looks like the view from a snipers nest. Who knew that you could have too big of a screen. Thought about a camera on each side of the screen, middle from top to bottom so that it shot the opposite side of the conference table that view the screen. Then merge the images. Rarely is there someone at the far end of the table. Seems like it would give the best perspective. Cropped 16:9 images or two 4:3 images would make a synthetic wide screen image and I think help with all the viewing/distortion issues. 2/3 of the current image from the web camera is the ceiling, with the lights blowing the sensor and darkening the rest of the image.
Ahh, I see the Netgear C6220 is a docsis 3.0 device. Their spec sheet says download up to 340 mbps. You'll need a 3.1 device to go faster.
You should still see an easy 300 from a gig ether device direct connected. If not, check to see how many channels/streams are bonded.
Good call pulling up the specs. That's exactly what I was going to do.
Also as someone stated, when testing speeds you want to do it as close to the source with as little other devices accessing the network as possible. When we install a new circuit for a customer we generate a certificate showing the throughput. We typically run this test with a gig capable laptop or a device that is built for this purpose (exfo bv-10)
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I don't plan on using any cameras. Our ADT system already has two and while I want one more, I'd just add it to that so that they're all on the same interface. If the APs are powered over Ethernet though, that means they'd have to be plugged in. I thought an AP was a wireless extender that you'd plug in on a different floor to boost signal in a dead zone?
ETA: so I re-looked at videos to get a better understanding. My initial search only showed installs for some reason but I just found a lot more, one of which lead me to their AmpliFi HD. Any thoughts on that? Seems much more what I'm used to and looking for. I don't have huge requirements and the speed I get from my current setup is typically 70% of what I need. I just want a little bit more and some extra power to reach the upstairs and basement. Although I assume I'd still have to buy a modem and it doesn't look like they sell one of those so I wouldn't know what to go with.
Adrenaline_6
11-15-19, 09:00
I don't plan on using any cameras. Our ADT system already has two and while I want one more, I'd just add it to that so that they're all on the same interface. If the APs are powered over Ethernet though, that means they'd have to be plugged in. I thought an AP was a wireless extender that you'd plug in on a different floor to boost signal in a dead zone?
ETA: so I re-looked at videos to get a better understanding. My initial search only showed installs for some reason but I just found a lot more, one of which lead me to their AmpliFi HD. Any thoughts on that? Seems much more what I'm used to and looking for. I don't have huge requirements and the speed I get from my current setup is typically 70% of what I need. I just want a little bit more and some extra power to reach the upstairs and basement. Although I assume I'd still have to buy a modem and it doesn't look like they sell one of those so I wouldn't know what to go with.
THe AmplifiHD would work I guess, but if you are going with a mesh system, the Netgear Orbi would be your best bet, since it has a dedicated band just used for backhaul to the router.
So Ubiquiti released some new hotness to the Amplifi line within the last few days. I'm super tempted to just buy that thing and call it good. With all the positive stuff on that company and the Amplifi line, my guess is that one will cover my needs fine. If not, I can add a second one down the road. Would still need a modem though. I'm leaning towards the Netgear 32x8 DOCSIS 3.1 unless anyone has a better recommendation.
Im guessing you are talking about the Alien.
I believe its built on the bones of the Ultimate Dream Machine on the Unifi line, except its geared more towards mesh networks. Not sure how its firewall capabilities are.
I havent really read anything on the Alien as mesh isnt where I am wanting to go personally, although I think the technology is getting better.
Adrenaline_6
11-25-19, 12:52
Im guessing you are talking about the Alien.
I believe its built on the bones of the Ultimate Dream Machine on the Unifi line, except its geared more towards mesh networks. Not sure how its firewall capabilities are.
I havent really read anything on the Alien as mesh isnt where I am wanting to go personally, although I think the technology is getting better.
It's also geared more for the consumer. It isn't controlled by the Unifi management software. It has less options, but has new Wifi 6.
Finally sucked it up and ordered some new stuff. Amplifi Alien and Motorola 8600. Unscientific connection test went from download speed of 13 to 165. One of these days when I've had less bourbon I'll look through the settings and probably ask you guys what makes sense, but its already blazing fast in comparison.
Finally sucked it up and ordered some new stuff. Amplifi Alien and Motorola 8600. Unscientific connection test went from download speed of 13 to 165. One of these days when I've had less bourbon I'll look through the settings and probably ask you guys what makes sense, but its already blazing fast in comparison.
I really like the Amplifi Alien but beware that it does NOT include the Unifi integration mentioned earlier. The idea if an AIO solution is good for most consumers but, upon reading this omission, I decided that separate hardware components all managed under the same interface (Unifi) was still the best solution.
Example: when the WiFi 6 access points come out I can simply swap one out and my wireless network is now WiFi 6 in a matter of minutes. Not the best example since the Aplifi Alien comes with WiFi 6 already (great news BTW) but if/when WiFi 7 comes out you'll be stuck replacing your entire network basically. Of course, based on how long it took us to get WiFi 6 it could be 2035 before we see WiFi 7 so that's another reason this isn't the best example. But there may be some other large step forward that you'd like to take advantage of before we adopt an all new WiFi standard like the incremental steps we took between WiFi 4 and WiFi 6 (since we basically bypassed WiFi 5 more or less).
Also, if you're saying "13 to 165" as in Mbps your hardware is capable of way, way, WAY more speed. Your ISP package is the bottleneck. Time to get some faster internets! :cool:
Im pretty sure I am going far the other way...
UDM Pro with 14tb WD Ultrastar HD
Gen 2 Pro 24 POE switch
5-6 AP's(leaning towards pro's, but might run Nano's or Flex's)
6-8 cameras(2 G4 Pro's, 3 G3 Flex's, 2 G3 bullets)
Synology RS820+(not sure what drives I will go with, but probably start with 2 14tb Ultrastars and expand from there)
All mounted in a Tripp Lite 9u server depth rack.
Some type of battery backup, leaning towards rack mount APC UPS 1500v, although I think I can get by with a 1000v.
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