View Full Version : Where are the 14.5" M4 barrels with FSBs these days?
So, where would one go to find a quality milspec 14.5 M4 barrel with the FSB and barrel nut already on it? I'm not in the market to buy one right this second but I'd like to know where a reliable source to get such an item is. Or is just searching for a Colt 6921 barrel on GunBroker the best bet?
I see Colt SOCOM profile barrels floating around here and there but I'm going want the standard profile.
The only manufacturer I have found with standard profile 14.5" M4 barrels with a front sight and barrel nut are DSA and TNTE Sales, the specs as listed on both look acceptable but I don't know anything about the origin of DSA's or TNTE's barrels or their quality, and since I tend to look gift horses in the mouth, the $135 price tag on DSA's barrel in particular makes me suspicious.
Here http://www.gandrtactical.com/Colt-145-M4-SOCOM-Barrel-w-FSB_p_332.html
http://www.gandrtactical.com/Colt-145-M4-Barrel-w-FSB_p_328.html
Thanks for the link but that's the SOCOM profile barrel.
Are those the same profile? Sorry, haven't finished the first cup of coffee yet.
Maybe this https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/m4-14-5-barrel-with-front-sight-assembly-prod71290.aspx
Hammer_Man
06-16-18, 06:35
+1 on recommending G&R Tactical. Put yourself on the waiting list for the M4 barrel, and be patient. Colt parts (and most parts) come and go in batches, so be prepared to make a purchase as soon as you get notification it is back in stock.
I like the BA barrels that I have
https://ballisticadvantage.com/14-5-inch-556-m4-carbine-cmv-modern-barrel.html
you can opt to add .750" “F” Marked FSB, Handguard Cap, and Delta Ring Assembly +$60.00
I'd prefer something milspec, with chrome lining. Ballistic Advantage only offers Nitride as far as I know.
DSA and TNTE list their barrels as chrome lined and the proper 4150/1159E but I just don't know anything about the actual quality of their stuff.
I guess for now I'll keep an eye on G&R and a couple other places that have them listed but are out of stock and try to snag one if they become available.
Worse case scenario I can just buy another BCM M4 barrel and have an FSB installed like I did before but just getting the barrel with the barrel nut and already FSB assembled from the get go would be more convenient.
So, where would one go to find a quality milspec 14.5 M4 barrel with the FSB and barrel nut already on it?
Bravo Company has a whole bunch of offerings. This is for the M4 barrel profile:
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-M4-Upper-Receiver-Group-s/29.htm
But they offer other barrel profiles as well.
In addition to picking BCGs, handguards, and charging handles, you can pick your muzzle device, and whether you want it pinned or not pinned.
P.S. Oops, I'm sorry OP. Didn't realize you were looking for barrels only.
Bravo Company has a whole bunch of offerings. This is for the M4 barrel profile:
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-M4-Upper-Receiver-Group-s/29.htm
But they offer other barrel profiles as well.
In addition to picking BCGs, handguards, and charging handles, you can pick your muzzle device, and whether you want it pinned or not pinned.
Yeah those are the whole upper receiver groups, I'm just after the barrel itself with an FSB on it. BCM is generally my first stop for anything AR, and then if it's something I need but they don't offer (Mostly Retro stuff like A1 uppers, non-F FSBs etc..) then I hit up other outfits.
Try Centurion Arms, not cheap though...
Yeah those are the whole upper receiver groups, I'm just after the barrel itself with an FSB on it. BCM is generally my first stop for anything AR, and then if it's something I need but they don't offer (Mostly Retro stuff like A1 uppers, non-F FSBs etc..) then I hit up other outfits.
If you cant find what youre looking for, im sure you could offload the bcm upper on the EE here for a fair price.
Send it...
06-16-18, 14:34
Noveske will make you one
Out of curiosity, in terms of weight, how much heavier is a SOCOM M4 profile barrel compared to the standard one?
And in actual use, how much heavier does it feel?
Out of curiosity, in terms of weight, how much heavier is a SOCOM M4 profile barrel compared to the standard one?
Here's a five page thread about that:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?149199-BCM-Barrel-M4-vs-M4-SOCOM
And in actual use, how much heavier does it feel?
I did a compare/contrast between two barrel profiles (albeit one was a pencil barrel):
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?207186-Pictures-quot-Government-quot-Barrel-vs-quot-Pencil-quot-Barrel-Weight-Difference
It does make a subjective difference.
You might want to try Windham Weaponry. Their barrels have a decent reputation. I think they are sourced from Green Mountain barrels. I built a 20" A4 type rifle with one, but I haven't fired it as of yet.
You might want to try Windham Weaponry. Their barrels have a decent reputation. I think they are sourced from Green Mountain barrels. I built a 20" A4 type rifle with one, but I haven't fired it as of yet.
Come on.
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Come on.
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Huh??
Out of curiosity, in terms of weight, how much heavier is a SOCOM M4 profile barrel compared to the standard one?
And in actual use, how much heavier does it feel?
A Colt 14.5" SOCOM barrel is less than 2 ozs heavier than a Colt 16" M4 profile barrel. I like the balance of the Colt 14.5" SOCOM barrel and it shoots like a house afire.
If you want that SOCOM barrel at G&R, grab it quick. You won't find it cheaper, they sell out fast and it often takes awhile to come back in stock.
contax_shooter
06-17-18, 10:19
Arms Unlimited has the Colt 14.5” socom Profile for $240 shipped.
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-M4-14-5-inch-556mm-SOCOM-Barrel-Assembly-p/sp65054.htm
Probably cheaper than Grant’s offering with his M4C discount + shipping charge factored in.
I was mostly just curious how the SOCOM compared to a standard M4 barrel overall, but for my needs I still think I'm going to go with the standard profile for now. I've got a line on one at the moment.
I had forgotten about Windham too, those might come in handy for a *different* project requiring an M4 barrel down the road. They're not my first choice but most of the specs on their barrels look solid, they just don't appear to individually HP/MP test them.
They apparently use non-F FSBs but since that barrel would be going on a future 727 clone that would actually be a plus in that case.
I was mostly just curious how the SOCOM compared to a standard M4 barrel overall, but for my needs I still think I'm going to go with the standard profile for now. I've got a line on one at the moment.
I had forgotten about Windham too, those might come in handy for a *different* project requiring an M4 barrel down the road. They're not my first choice but most of the specs on their barrels look solid, they just don't appear to individually HP/MP test them.
They apparently use non-F FSBs but since that barrel would be going on a future 727 clone that would actually be a plus in that case.
They weren't my first choice either. I was looking for a 20" Colt with FSB and M4 feed ramps, but the barrel by itself isn't real easy to come by. I did some research on them, and they seemed to be pretty well thought of. Mine doesn't have an F-marked FSB. That wasn't a huge deal, though.
Mr. Goodtimes
06-17-18, 18:09
Arms Unlimited has the Colt 14.5” socom Profile for $240 shipped.
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-M4-14-5-inch-556mm-SOCOM-Barrel-Assembly-p/sp65054.htm
Probably cheaper than Grant’s offering with his M4C discount + shipping charge factored in.
Also better than BCM and other similar hobby grade brands.
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I'm probably opening a can of worms by even going here, but you consider BCM barrels to be "hobby grade"?
Hammer_Man
06-17-18, 18:51
I wouldn't order from Arms Unlimited. Every Colt part I've ordered from them has been flawed somehow. The Colt bcg I ordered from them looked like a QC reject, or perhaps used. The SOCOM barrel I ordered from them had to be sent back to Colt for warranty work, because it was grouping way left. I ordered a Colt LPK, and the shipment has been pending since last Wednesday. In contrast everything I've ordered from Grant has been spot on. No questionable markings on the bcg, the SOCOM barrel is grouping spot on, and no shipping issues.
Glock9mm1990
06-18-18, 02:58
I'm probably opening a can of worms by even going here, but you consider BCM barrels to be "hobby grade"?
What?
Outlander Systems
06-18-18, 07:11
****ing fact.
Also better than BCM and other similar hobby grade brands.
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Y’all gonna feel the wrath of Admin
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Mr. Goodtimes
06-18-18, 09:33
I'm probably opening a can of worms by even going here, but you consider BCM barrels to be "hobby grade"?
BCM is just PSA with better marketing.... like celebrity “gun fighters.” If PSA had celebrity gun fighters all their issues would get swept under the rug too.
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BCM is just PSA with better marketing.... like celebrity “gun fighters.” If PSA had celebrity gun fighters all their issues would get swept under the rug too.
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Advertising and paying people to stop any bad reviews on gun forums will make any company look like rock stars.
Wow, this thread just hopped on board the failboat. To the OP, I bought a standard 14.5 M4 Colt barrel from scottyryan a while back, he's got a gunbroker page and it was a fair price. Not sure if he still sells them or not, but it would be worth checking out. Every Colt part I've bought from Arms Unlimited has been GTG. PSA is a far cry from BCM.
Wow, this thread just hopped on board the failboat. To the OP, I bought a standard 14.5 M4 Colt barrel from scottyryan a while back, he's got a gunbroker page and it was a fair price. Not sure if he still sells them or not, but it would be worth checking out. Every Colt part I've bought from Arms Unlimited has been GTG. PSA is a far cry from BCM.
How you figure? The word of SMEs is well respected around here.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwOJlOI1nU
I'm sheltering in place.
PSA is a far cry from BCM.
Are you bacing this off of actual real experiencs or was it from what the poeple on the internet have told you?
I don’t consider BCM anything near “hobby grade” or PSA, but Molon does have a thread or two here where Colt barrels regularly outshoot many others, to include Noveske and BCM IIRC.
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Are you bacing this off of actual real experiencs or was it from what the poeple on the internet have told you?
I've got two BCM carbines that get used on a regular basis. Never had a lick of trouble out of either of them. Both have SOCOM barrels, and the only thing I have read is that BCM barrels tend to not be quite as accurate as the corresponding Colt barrel. I've never heard them referred to as "hobby grade" before.
noonesshowmonkey
06-18-18, 13:35
In a world where Colt SOCOM barrels regularly shoot sub-moa, why is anyone even asking after what 14.5 FSB barrel to get? Just find a Colt SOCOM and drive on. And if the BCM barrel is outshot by the corresponding Colt barrel, that may be a basis for hobbygrade.
Correction. Colt, along with Daniel Defense barrels, are issued to face shooters; everything else is hobby grade. Thems the breaks.
noonesshowmonkey
06-18-18, 13:37
Are you bacing this off of actual real experiencs or was it from what the poeple on the internet have told you?
PSA has a run of 14.7" CHF barrelled uppers right now. Anyone would be hard pressed to put together a completed upper with an M-Lok rail for anything less than what you'd be paying for it from PSA. Check the torque specs on things, then burn some ammo with it and check the groups. I imagine that you'd end up with a shooter.
I don't own any PSA complete rifles, but I'd not hesitate to do so if I wanted an extra rifle laying around and I couldn't find a cheap 6920. I do have a PSA complete pistol lower, and it was in perfect working order. I needed to unwind the mag release a little, as it was on rather tight and wouldn't drop Pmag M3s, but that took me what? A few dry run mag changes, a punch, and three turns of the mag release to fix?
Also better than BCM and other similar hobby grade brands.
Have I missed something? BCM meets the TDP. Is the TDP no longer good enough?
In a world where Colt SOCOM barrels regularly shoot sub-moa, why is anyone even asking after what 14.5 FSB barrel to get? Just find a Colt SOCOM and drive on. And if the BCM barrel is outshot by the corresponding Colt barrel, that may be a basis for hobbygrade.
Correction. Colt, along with Daniel Defense barrels, are issued to face shooters; everything else is hobby grade. Thems the breaks.
Are we talking ‘grade’ or brand?
Is KAC hobby grade?
Disclaimer: kind of a stupid word debate imo, but curious on your qualifiers..
in my limited experience is that bcm>psa. (2samples bcm, 1 sample psa).
noonesshowmonkey
06-18-18, 14:49
Are we talking ‘grade’ or brand?
Is KAC hobby grade?
Disclaimer: kind of a stupid word debate imo, but curious on your qualifiers..
in my limited experience is that bcm>psa. (2samples bcm, 1 sample psa).
It is a dumb debate. I have what I have, and I shoot what I have, and those tools are what I train with to become a better fighter. I don't give a crap what is or isn't 'hobby grade' or whatever.
I am issued garbage by my agency, and I train with that garbage. Frankly, if being issued sets the bar for what is and isn't hobby grade, then I'd not be offended by the nomenclature and would just have better, non-issued kit.
But, the 14.5" Colt SOCOM barrel is a stand out, and again, I'd just stop my search there. It also happens to fill up arms rooms over seas, and has a pedigree of being used to kill a lot of bad guys, which is something that a BCM/PSA/whatever brand doesn't have going for it.
I've owned a Colt 14.5 Carbine FSB upper AND currently own the 14.5 BCM SOCOM. I could only differentiate the two by weight as the SOCOM is heavier. There is no functional or quality variance between the two. This is based on shooting accuracy, gassing, and shooting suppressed. I've had the SOCOM for years now. So I'm puzzled at the notion that BCM falls short in any way shape or form.
I previously owned a Bushmaster 14.5 carbine. Not that thing, although fun to shoot, did fall short in quality. It was over gassed, and the rear sight assembly was out of spec and had to be replaced. It was a beater gun that I shot until the throat was really eroded.
Moose-Knuckle
06-18-18, 16:08
Colt, along with Daniel Defense barrels, are issued to face shooters; everything else is hobby grade. Thems the breaks.
How about LMT and FN?
indianalex01
06-18-18, 16:14
You know the answer. Stop trying to instigate an argument.
MountainRaven
06-18-18, 18:37
What makes a BCM hobbyist grade?
Mr. Goodtimes
06-18-18, 18:55
Are we talking ‘grade’ or brand?
Is KAC hobby grade?
Disclaimer: kind of a stupid word debate imo, but curious on your qualifiers..
in my limited experience is that bcm>psa. (2samples bcm, 1 sample psa).
KAC is quite literally, the finest, most well built and engineered factory rifle money can buy. Like it or not, KAC and Colt are the standards by which all others are judged.
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Mr. Goodtimes
06-18-18, 18:57
Have I missed something? BCM meets the TDP. Is the TDP no longer good enough?
I don’t think over torqued barrel nuts and non pinned low profile gas blocks are part of the TDP.
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MountainRaven
06-18-18, 19:01
I don’t think over torqued barrel nuts and non pinned low profile gas blocks are part of the TDP.
Non-pinned low profile gas blocks are on Mk12s, Mk18s, M4A1 SOPMOD Block IIs, and the new USASOC URG-I.
And I'm not alone in having dealt with over-torqued barrel nuts on Colt rifles (fresh from the factory).
ETA: I believe (actually, on review of the video below, know) KAC's rifles, "quite literally, the finest, most well built and engineered factory rifle money can buy," use non-pinned low profile gas blocks, too. (Quoted below.) They have, in fact, pretty much made it impossible to install a pinned gas block.
KAC is quite literally, the finest, most well built and engineered factory rifle money can buy. Like it or not, KAC and Colt are the standards by which all others are judged.
KAC URX4 install video for reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xFRu5oWFtA
Mr. Goodtimes
06-18-18, 19:08
In a world where Colt SOCOM barrels regularly shoot sub-moa, why is anyone even asking after what 14.5 FSB barrel to get? Just find a Colt SOCOM and drive on. And if the BCM barrel is outshot by the corresponding Colt barrel, that may be a basis for hobbygrade.
Correction. Colt, along with Daniel Defense barrels, are issued to face shooters; everything else is hobby grade. Thems the breaks.
Well if stacking bodies is your hobby then yes, KAC Is hobby grade. To help you understand, I have compiled a list of elite people and agencies/units who use KAC.
List Of Elite People And Units In Order of Importance (top to bottom) Who Use KAC:
The USSS
Jason Everman
Jack Luba
Kevin Boland (circa 2007 ish)
Eugene Stoner
Master Chief
God
Jesus
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Glock9mm1990
06-18-18, 19:09
What makes a BCM hobbyist grade?
It’s not, that is the most idiotic thing I heard this week claiming BCM is somehow hobby grade. Whoever said that is ether a troll or a complete moron.
Mr. Goodtimes
06-18-18, 19:12
It’s not, that is the most idiotic thing I heard this week claiming BCM is somehow hobby grade. Whoever said that is ether a troll or a complete moron.
Or maybe they just don’t drink the cool aide by the gallon. 15 years ago RRA was the bomb because of their FBI contract.
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contax_shooter
06-18-18, 19:13
KAC is quite literally, the finest, most well built and engineered factory rifle money can buy. Like it or not, KAC and Colt are the standards by which all others are judged.
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https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1745/28018862587_f1f720fa19_o.jpg
Well if stacking bodies is your hobby then yes, KAC Is hobby grade. To help you understand, I have compiled a list of elite people and agencies/units who use KAC.
List Of Elite People And Units In Order of Importance (top to bottom) Who Use KAC:
The USSS
Jason Everman
Jack Luba
Kevin Boland (circa 2007 ish)
Eugene Stoner
Master Chief
God
Jesus
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I really want a KAC and nothing against anyone that you posted, but that was just a weak argument.
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Glock9mm1990
06-18-18, 19:40
BCM is without a doubt a top teir AR manufacturer, it’s been proven time and time again they survive hard use while cheaper budget rifles die. People who say otherwise are just trying to justify their bad buying decisions. PSA on par with BCM? LMAO GTFO!
MountainRaven
06-18-18, 19:41
Next week on m4carbine.net:
Why you should only carry a handgun in a caliber starting in 4.
Why carrying a 9mm handgun will get you killed on the streets.
Shootoff: Ultimate defensive handgun showdown! Kimber Ultra Carry II versus Glock 27.
Plus a special segment:
How to choose the right .380 EDC for you!
Glock9mm1990
06-18-18, 19:42
Or maybe they just don’t drink the cool aide by the gallon. 15 years ago RRA was the bomb because of their FBI contract.
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And perhaps their qc has gone done in years past, or the fact their are better options these days.
Mr. Goodtimes
06-18-18, 20:21
I really want a KAC and nothing against anyone that you posted, but that was just a weak argument.
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So let me get this straight.... you’re saying The USSS, Jason Everman, Jack Luba, Kevin Boland (circa 2007 ish), Eugene Stoner, Master Chief, God, and Jesus are weak?
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Outlander Systems
06-18-18, 20:41
BCM’s receiver end plates are pretty legit, but that’s the only thing I’ll spend Buffonibux on from here out.
Or maybe they just don’t drink the cool aide by the gallon. 15 years ago RRA was the bomb because of their FBI contract.
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Or maybe they just don’t drink the cool aide by the gallon. 15 years ago RRA was the bomb because of their FBI contract.
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It was DEA...........my first high end cost wise AR. That heavy barrel got it traded after two classes.
So let me get this straight.... you’re saying The USSS, Jason Everman, Jack Luba, Kevin Boland (circa 2007 ish), Eugene Stoner, Master Chief, God, and Jesus are weak?
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No but using them for the entirety of an argument is. Jason Everman? From BHD? What does that guy even do nowadays?
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indianalex01
06-18-18, 22:33
BCM is without a doubt a top teir AR manufacturer, it’s been proven time and time again they survive hard use while cheaper budget rifles die. People who say otherwise are just trying to justify their bad buying decisions. PSA on par with BCM? LMAO GTFO!
I disagree with this based on my experience with a Mk12 mod4 upper. Colt lower guessle trigger. Bushnell elite tactical. Gun wouldn’t hold any grouping.. I shipped it back to them and they told me at shot in spec and held 2 inch groups for them. I was expecting a little bit better from BCM than that since it is a mark 12 variant and I was shooting gold-medal match from federal. The customer service sucked and they sent me the same rifle which I can outshoot the stock colt 6920. I will never buy BCM ever again.
Moose-Knuckle
06-19-18, 01:01
You know the answer. Stop trying to instigate an argument.
Not sure if you are directing that at me since you did not quote anyone directly.
But....
If you did direct that at me then I'd suggest you re-read the thread to see just who it is that is "trying to instigate an argument".
Moose-Knuckle
06-19-18, 01:11
Well if stacking bodies is your hobby then yes, KAC Is hobby grade.
This.
KAC has been adopted by various elements within the DoD for decades.
Craig Sawyer posted an old school pic of himself on his FB page where he was on the tarmac about to go wheels up with his SMU to go do very bad things to some very bad people with an early prototype SR-25 variant.
I have no idea how KAC is considered "hobby grade" lolirl.
Epic thread is epic.
Definitely needs more Cpap
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Hammer_Man
06-19-18, 06:27
Not to derail the thread from the previous derailing, but I was thinking about this last night. Bottom line we live in pretty good times when Colt SOCOM barrels are plentiful on the open market. I suspect the SOCOM barrel will become the norm, due to the Army's wide spread adoption of the M4A1. The standard M4 barrel will become an obscure relic, fading away from the market until they become "retro".
Not to derail the thread from the previous derailing, but I was thinking about this last night. Bottom line we live in pretty good times when Colt SOCOM barrels are plentiful on the open market. I suspect the SOCOM barrel will become the norm, due to the Army's wide spread adoption of the M4A1. The standard M4 barrel will become an obscure relic, fading away from the market until they become "retro".
You’d be hard pressed to find a better barrel for most builds, especially for cut downs. Factory gas port is ideal.
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Correction. Colt, along with Daniel Defense barrels, are issued to face shooters; everything else is hobby grade. Thems the breaks.
I can think of at least two other companies that I would put above Daniel Defense in terms of being issued to real .mil shooters. One starts with an L and another with a K.
I'd position the LMT has had a bigger impact on current M4 mil thinking & implemented designs than any other mfg in the last decade.
KAC clearly dominated the 7.62 mil space for a while, but to my knowledge, less of their 5.56 innovations made it to mil usage.
No slight to Colt, but the recent major innovations making it to real world usage were not developed by them. But certainly executed well into production.
To me DD started as a very innovative company, but outside of a few go-to products I feel theyve gone civvy boutique and lost their way.
I'm torn between putting a 14.5" as issued Colt FSB barrel on my M4 marked 6920 versus putting a SOCOM on it. I kind of like the idea of having a reference M4, but hate to spend good money on a less capable barrel. (Both with pinned FH)
noonesshowmonkey
06-19-18, 09:53
@Moose / Pinz, yes LMT, FN, KAC are in the list. I think that the basic idea of, as Moose phrased it, "doing very bad things to very bad people" is sort of the defining characteristic of what differentiates a 'professional grade' from a 'hobby grade' brand, if arguing about semantics or about something so useless as what rollmark is on the rifle is your thing. BCM ain't on that list (though I don't traipse around SMU arms rooms, so what the F do I know?), nor are a lot of brands that people go far out of their way to praise. I think that the point of the BCM ball busting in this thread is that there are serious no shit murder tier rifles out there, and that while BCM has great brand recognition, BCM's rep may be a bit overblown via some excellent marketing and a cult-like following. It is important to note that all of those factors are subjective: branding, cult status, name recognition, etc.
Note bene: all of my rifles are hobbyist rifles under the above definition, and IDGAF. Not losing any sleep & my manhood does not feel diminished.
Not to derail the thread from the previous derailing, but I was thinking about this last night. Bottom line we live in pretty good times when Colt SOCOM barrels are plentiful on the open market. ...
As I'd said earlier, when you can just get a Colt SOCOM barrel, which Molon has tested very rigorously, and hundreds of users have posted their anecdotal success with, there's a ton of compelling evidence that they are FANTASTIC barrels. Colt must be grinding up Unicorn horns into them, or something... And, as if that weren't enough, there's the validation, should you need it, that it is professional tier murder gear. Personally, I stick with the objective reasoning end of this, and look at the fact that it's a CHF barrel that reliably puts up at or sub MOA... But, maybe I'm a crazy person.
Or, just a hobbyist...
I'm torn between putting a 14.5" as issued Colt FSB barrel on my M4 marked 6920 versus putting a SOCOM on it. I kind of like the idea of having a reference M4, but hate to spend good money on a less capable barrel. (Both with pinned FH)
SOCOM, bay beeeee. Unicorn horn, dude. Unicorn.
I'm back at TOS. :jester:
vicious_cb
06-19-18, 10:44
I'm back at TOS. :jester:
Seriously, I guess we're back to believing "Ive seent PSA shoot good, its a good CARBEAN" type data instead of listening to the guys to have literally taken apart dozens of examples of their rifles, compared them to other brands and reported how well they are put together, their specs, their tolerances and their problems.
When people care more about "feelings" instead of data, thats the slippery slope to TOS.
Mr. Goodtimes
06-19-18, 10:44
@Moose / Pinz, yes LMT, FN, KAC are in the list. I think that the basic idea of, as Moose phrased it, "doing very bad things to very bad people" is sort of the defining characteristic of what differentiates a 'professional grade' from a 'hobby grade' brand, if arguing about semantics or about something so useless as what rollmark is on the rifle is your thing. BCM ain't on that list (though I don't traipse around SMU arms rooms, so what the F do I know?), nor are a lot of brands that people go far out of their way to praise. I think that the point of the BCM ball busting in this thread is that there are serious no shit murder tier rifles out there, and that while BCM has great brand recognition, BCM's rep may be a bit overblown via some excellent marketing and a cult-like following. It is important to note that all of those factors are subjective: branding, cult status, name recognition, etc.
Note bene: all of my rifles are hobbyist rifles under the above definition, and IDGAF. Not losing any sleep & my manhood does not feel diminished.
As I'd said earlier, when you can just get a Colt SOCOM barrel, which Molon has tested very rigorously, and hundreds of users have posted their anecdotal success with, there's a ton of compelling evidence that they are FANTASTIC barrels. Colt must be grinding up Unicorn horns into them, or something... And, as if that weren't enough, there's the validation, should you need it, that it is professional tier murder gear. Personally, I stick with the objective reasoning end of this, and look at the fact that it's a CHF barrel that reliably puts up at or sub MOA... But, maybe I'm a crazy person.
Or, just a hobbyist...
SOCOM, bay beeeee. Unicorn horn, dude. Unicorn.
Mr. Monkey wins the Internet today.
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Seriously, I guess we're back to believing "Ive seent PSA shoot good, its a good CARBEAN" type data instead of listening to the guys to have literally taken apart dozens of examples of their rifles, compared them to other brands and reported how well they are put together, their specs, their tolerances and their problems.
When people care more about "feelings" instead of data, thats the slippery slope to TOS.
Used to be that you had to post "in your lane" on this site. I.E. if you bash on a brand, you'd better have first hand experience or knowledge to back it up. It's slowly become a little more laxed, which is ok to a point. But TOS already has brainless post market cornered. We don't need it here.
Seriously, I guess we're back to believing "Ive seent PSA shoot good, its a good CARBEAN" type data instead of listening to the guys to have literally taken apart dozens of examples of their rifles, compared them to other brands and reported how well they are put together, their specs, their tolerances and their problems.
When people care more about "feelings" instead of data, thats the slippery slope to TOS.
Sid, it's true, the fate of the Republic is hanging in the balance.
Outlander Systems
06-19-18, 12:57
I absolutely have first-hand experience of BCM being hobby grade trash.
Used to be that you had to post "in your lane" on this site. I.E. if you bash on a brand, you'd better have first hand experience or knowledge to back it up. It's slowly become a little more laxed, which is ok to a point. But TOS already has brainless post market cornered. We don't need it here.
nightchief
06-19-18, 13:08
I absolutely have first-hand experience of BCM being hobby grade trash.
Would you be willing to expand on the issues you've had with BCM gear?
I absolutely have first-hand experience of BCM being hobby grade trash.
Should have paid extra Buffonibux?
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Mr. Goodtimes
06-19-18, 13:39
Used to be that you had to post "in your lane" on this site. I.E. if you bash on a brand, you'd better have first hand experience or knowledge to back it up. It's slowly become a little more laxed, which is ok to a point. But TOS already has brainless post market cornered. We don't need it here.
If you wanted to bash a brand you had to have first hand experience but not to shamelessly shill for one. Nobody asks anyone how much first hand experience they have with a brand when they’re relentlessly singing said brands praises. Both are equally as poisonous as the other.
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Used to be that you had to post "in your lane" on this site. I.E. if you bash on a brand, you'd better have first hand experience or knowledge to back it up. It's slowly become a little more laxed, which is ok to a point. But TOS already has brainless post market cornered. We don't need it here.
I imagine it’s due to a lot of reasons I’d reckon ad and sponsorship revenue are big ones. Hard to keep up without expanding membership
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Outlander Systems
06-19-18, 14:00
Negative, for the same reasons I didn’t post about the issues I’ve had with BCM in the past here...
Would you be willing to expand on the issues you've had with BCM gear?
I absolutely have first-hand experience of BCM being hobby grade trash.
I have too. And when posting on forum the psudo SMEs crush you to make sure that the bad press doesn't get out. It is cheaper to pay people to talk great about your product then to actually make one.
I don't doubt you guys, but I have far more BCM products than any other company and have had three or four of their uppers. None of them have more than a few thousand rounds through them but they've all been great so I haven't seen anything near hobby grade.
I have too. And when posting on forum the psudo SMEs crush you to make sure that the bad press doesn't get out. It is cheaper to pay people to talk great about your product then to actually make one.
Aren't you the one who has SBR'd multiple Anderson lowers?
That makes your opinion null and void. And here I thought you were supposed to be an SME.
*sarcasm*
I don't doubt you guys, but I have far more BCM products than any other company and have had three or four of their uppers. None of them have more than a few thousand rounds through them but they've all been great so I haven't seen anything near hobby grade.
I read the hobby grade as "anything but mfgs who sell to major militaries in quantities other than for evaluation".
I'd never equate BCM with PSA. I'm not a hater, but not a fanboy. Don't totally buy into the "meets the TDP", when the TDP is proprietary. I give them credit for trying to meet what is known of the TDP, but even FN and others is not allowed to use the TDP proprietary info in their commercial offerings. So if they legally had it, they could not use it. If they somehow have an old TDP, or even a current copy, they should not be talking about using it as it's not their proprietary info. ("proprietary", intellectual property, remember). That unless Colt gave them permission to use it, unlikely.
I see BCM as a very well made rifle/carbine mfg. Some innovative products (KMR comes to mind). Could probably play and compete in the mil stuff if desired. I've tried to buy some of their stuff, but between the old website, not answering the phone or emails, and pricing relative to LMT/Colt/DD for comparable components, just usually went other directions.
But BCM has not (to my knowledge, anyway) been a major contributor/developer/supplier/mfg for weapons in use by the US Army or allied countries armies. Nor has DD, or a bunch of other better than average mfgs. So while I would call them "hobby" or non-mil mfg's, that's still some decent company to be in.
Also has publicly done some things that raised some eyebrows, but were within rights as a mfg. You hear great stories of cust service, and some problematic ones. Two in this thread. No mfg is immune from that.
So I don't think most of us are equating BCM with PSA. I do think they get very strong support on the forum, and sometimes do get a pass where others do not. That has been debated, don't really want to debate it again. Especially given sponsorship of the forum, etc.
But the club of mfg's who have developed innovations for and sold rifles issued to the US military is pretty small. Not talking security guard, border patrol, federal stuff. Weapons used by one or more US Military units in serious usage.
Aren't you the one who has SBR'd multiple Anderson lowers?
That makes your opinion null and void. And here I thought you were supposed to be an SME.
*sarcasm*
Yes I have. As well as many other types. I have a ....... Wait for it....... A DPMS SBR that probably to 40k through it. And worst of all .... It works. Does it have a DPMS parts kit? No, it never did. It started out with a CMT parts kit and I have replaced as needed.
Ido something crazy..... I test all of my stuff extremely well. I get what us around and use it. If it doesn't work, I replace it with something else.
I got the sarcasm....... ;) And I did LOL.....
redpillregret
06-19-18, 16:40
Correction. Colt, along with Daniel Defense barrels, are issued to face shooters; everything else is hobby grade. Thems the breaks.
HK seems to be one of the major players today.
Daniel Defense made shit over-gassed barrels for quite a few years.
Being issued by DoD isn’t exclusively what determines quality of a barrel, or a company. If you believe this to be the case, you are a fool. Despite what you may believe, there are numerous agencies and departments operating inside CONUS, contractors, and foreign militaries that also use firearms.
If the litmus test is wide-spread DoD issue, then I suppose Remington rifles are the only good bolt/actions and, for instance, my AI, which failed to secure a contract, is shit. We must assume the Sig P320 is super magical body-slayer grade, while a G19X is a failure pistol. Eotech must also be great...and there’s no reason to go with a T2 Aimpoint. Perhaps we need to discuss the merits of M193 over commercial ammo such as the Gold Dot or TSX, or how Leupold Scopes are superior to Benders and Kahles and they will get you killed.
The DoD is about logistics, not premium items.
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vicious_cb
06-19-18, 16:41
Yes I have. As well as many other types. I have a ....... Wait for it....... A DPMS SBR that probably to 40k through it. And worst of all .... It works. Does it have a DPMS parts kit? No, it never did. It started out with a CMT parts kit and I have replaced as needed.
Ido something crazy..... I test all of my stuff extremely well. I get what us around and use it. If it doesn't work, I replace it with something else.
I got the sarcasm....... ;) And I did LOL.....
I think thats the crux of the quality issue right there. Companies with little or no QC like DPMS or PSA are like a box a chocolates. You might get something that works awesome or you might get some POS garbage part, sometimes an issue wont crop up till 1000's of rounds later. The ratio of works awesome to POS garbage parts is much less with companies that follow a QC standard like BCM, but it doesnt mean they wont put out something that doesnt work every once in a while.
The difference is, YOU can actually identify problems and fix or replace things on your own. Thats why you can take less than reputable companies stuff and make them work. Your average user cant do that.
RobertTheTexan
06-19-18, 16:42
Advertising and paying people to stop any bad reviews on gun forums will make any company look like rock stars.
Leave it to doc to rile up the natives.....
I read the hobby grade as "anything but mfgs who sell to major militaries in quantities other than for evaluation".
I'd never equate BCM with PSA. I'm not a hater, but not a fanboy. Don't totally buy into the "meets the TDP", when the TDP is proprietary. I give them credit for trying to meet what is known of the TDP, but even FN and others is not allowed to use the TDP proprietary info in their commercial offerings. So if they legally had it, they could not use it. If they somehow have an old TDP, or even a current copy, they should not be talking about using it as it's not their proprietary info. ("proprietary", intellectual property, remember). That unless Colt gave them permission to use it, unlikely.
I see BCM as a very well made rifle/carbine mfg. Some innovative products (KMR comes to mind). Could probably play and compete in the mil stuff if desired. I've tried to buy some of their stuff, but between the old website, not answering the phone or emails, and pricing relative to LMT/Colt/DD for comparable components, just usually went other directions.
But BCM has not (to my knowledge, anyway) been a major contributor/developer/supplier/mfg for weapons in use by the US Army or allied countries armies. Nor has DD, or a bunch of other better than average mfgs. So while I would call them "hobby" or non-mil mfg's, that's still some decent company to be in.
Also has publicly done some things that raised some eyebrows, but were within rights as a mfg. You hear great stories of cust service, and some problematic ones. Two in this thread. No mfg is immune from that.
So I don't think most of us are equating BCM with PSA. I do think they get very strong support on the forum, and sometimes do get a pass where others do not. That has been debated, don't really want to debate it again. Especially given sponsorship of the forum, etc.
But the club of mfg's who have developed innovations for and sold rifles issued to the US military is pretty small. Not talking security guard, border patrol, federal stuff. Weapons used by one or more US Military units in serious usage.
All fair points. I do think they were one of the major innovators over the last several years though. Most of their Gunfighter line introduced a new take on the concept from what I remember, at least in a large scale. The charging handle was the first with larger latches, aside from maybe replacement latches like from Badger Ordnance. I think their pistol grips and VFGs were also the first to offer the reduced angle. Magpul had not yet come out with the K2 or whatever their option is. The comp came after the Battle Comp I believe, so not necessarily the first hybrid FH/comp, but many early tests said that it was a better combo whereas the BC was more of a comp than FH. I think the design behind their stock was fairly new as well, and offered something extremely lightweight but still more durable than competitors.
Again, this is all as I remember it and I'm sure they didn't have the first of anything, but as I said, on such a large scale.
Leave it to doc to rile up the natives.....
If they only knew just how strong with the LARP he really is though.....🤭
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RobertTheTexan
06-19-18, 17:08
. Thats why you can take less than reputable companies stuff and make them work. Your average user cant do that.
I'm not quite sure that's his motivation for building with the parts he does...
Being issued by DoD isn’t exclusively what determines quality of a barrel, or a company. If you believe this to be the case, you are a fool. Despite what you may believe, there are numerous agencies and departments operating inside CONUS, contractors, and foreign militaries that also use firearms.
If the litmus test is wide-spread DoD issue, then I suppose Remington rifles are the only good bolt/actions and, for instance, my AI, which failed to secure a contract, is shit. We must assume the Sig P320 is super magical body-slayer grade, while a G19X is a failure pistol. Eotech must also be great...and there’s no reason to go with a T2 Aimpoint. Perhaps we need to discuss the merits of M193 over commercial ammo such as the Gold Dot or TSX, or how Leupold Scopes are superior to Benders and Kahles and they will get you killed.
The DoD is about logistics, not premium items.
Kindof missed the point. This isn't about DoD "lowest bidder" mindset procurement. It's about mfgs innovating, things like the soccom barrel, etc. (Though even the big procurement is maybe not as bad as you are depicting)
Yep, so maybe Colt did not invent the AR, but they sure developed it. Same for HK roller locks. Sig DAs before they jumped the shark. LMT and KAC each made huge contributions to the knowledge base and premier weapons. And yes, even DD innovated with their rails early on. Steyr, FN, Walther, IMI, even Enfield.
Different class of mfgs than better than average clone mfgs. Yes, maybe some innovations there (kmr, etc). But not to the same degree and did not stick.
redpillregret
06-19-18, 17:55
Kindof missed the point. This isn't about DoD "lowest bidder" mindset procurement. It's about mfgs innovating, things like the soccom barrel, etc. (Though even the big procurement is maybe not as bad as you are depicting)
Yep, so maybe Colt did not invent the AR, but they sure developed it. Same for HK roller locks. Sig DAs before they jumped the shark. LMT and KAC each made huge contributions to the knowledge base and premier weapons. And yes, even DD innovated with their rails early on. Steyr, FN, Walther, IMI, even Enfield.
Different class of mfgs than better than average clone mfgs. Yes, maybe some innovations there (kmr, etc). But not to the same degree and did not stick.
I never mentioned lowest bidder. DoD adoption (or lack thereof) does not solely determine duty-grade. Innovation, since you’re stuck on it, does not determine duty grade.
The SOCOM is hardly revolutionary, or innovative, really. Colt was asked to solve a specific problem; and they were told how to do it. It’s ironic ANYBODY crediting Colt with much innovation at all in the past twenty years. Sure, they have solved some logistical issues, and have nearly run themselves out of business.
What has Colt done? Failed monolithic uppers, failed piston uppers, and lagged behind on free-float rails and mid-length systems? Let’s talk about their poor attempt at a .308 rifle....Now they put out Magpul furniture. Wow, color me impressed with the innovation! Oh boy let us not forget their competition series!
Colt has the same relationship with the 1911 as the M4. I suppose somebody should tell those dudes killing guys worn in-house built 1911s they weren’t duty-grade.
I don’t believe for a second your perception of innovation=duty grade.
How about BCM’s work on 14.5” mid-length systems (which I believe Crane was exploring the benefits of over the SOCOM barrels), charge handles? What about their new barrel contours? Are those innovations? Or clones?
I own several Colts and considered them a “go-to” brand for years. I’ve owned eight Colt carbines. While they are of good quality, their performance is no better than many manufacturers.
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jackblack73
06-19-18, 17:59
I read the hobby grade as "anything but mfgs who sell to major militaries in quantities other than for evaluation".
I'd never equate BCM with PSA. I'm not a hater, but not a fanboy. Don't totally buy into the "meets the TDP", when the TDP is proprietary. I give them credit for trying to meet what is known of the TDP, but even FN and others is not allowed to use the TDP proprietary info in their commercial offerings. So if they legally had it, they could not use it. If they somehow have an old TDP, or even a current copy, they should not be talking about using it as it's not their proprietary info. ("proprietary", intellectual property, remember). That unless Colt gave them permission to use it, unlikely.
I don’t believe the TDP works that way. It’s not a patent. If someone has the info I don’t think there’s anything stopping them from using it. If FN can’t use it it’s because they’re prohibited by contract. Even if it was a patent, it would have expired long ago.
The SOCOM is hardly revolutionary, or innovative, really. Colt was asked to solve a specific problem; and they were told how to do it. It’s ironic ANYBODY crediting Colt with much innovation at all in the past twenty years. Sure, they have solved some logistical issues, and have nearly run themselves out of business.
What has Colt done? Failed monolithic uppers, failed piston uppers, and lagged behind on free-float rails and mid-length systems? Let’s talk about their poor attempt at a .308 rifle....Now they put out Magpul furniture. Wow, color me impressed with the innovation! Oh boy let us not forget their competition series!
You seemed to have missed several points. I was referring to companies like LMT and KAC who made material design improvements that have influenced or directly incorporated into current generation weapons, with good reason.
I gave credit to bcm for the kmr, and I use gunfighter ch's, but don't really consider it a huge breakthrough, as it was just evolutionary improvement of the badger /tac-latch stuff. Not sure I buy that they were first with mid-lengths, though they certainly did champion it.
I still say, there is a big difference from the bcm/noveske/larue/LBC companies and Colt/FN/HK/LMT/KAC/Walther/imi.
redpillregret
06-19-18, 18:58
I didn’t say they invented the mid-length, but they developed the 14.5” mid-lengths info what we have today...which is, according to Crane, a big deal.
I don’t give them credit for keymod, as it’s a dying system and was stolen from another company that beat them to it by a few years.
I believe Colt also made evolutionary changes, having not designed the AR and responded to DoD demands.
I for one don’t feel under-gunned with my Colt or my BCM.
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This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I’ll say it- It’s just not that hard to build an AR that I would walk through an Iraqi doorway with. It’s 2018. The TDP isn’t goddamn magic. Has anyone heard of reverse engineering? The AR15, like the 1911, is not complicated. You don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get one thats worthy of clearing your way from your mom’s basement to the kitchen.
I served, overseas, with an MOS that primarily involved kicking doors in. The only weapon systems I truly liked were the M24 and the 240B. The M9 was alright as well. All of my AR’s were hit or miss and they were all Colt. The 110 made by Jesus, I mean KAC, was a damn nightmare to try and shoot consistently well at distance. Who makes it matters significantly less than people think. I have two BCM’s, and neither blow my doors off. The two times I’ve called them I’ve been less than impressed with the attitude on the other end of the phone.
I would love to run and gun, swing a kettlebell and shoot an at unknown distance with half of the people on here spending their entire days arguing about the damn TDP. I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back. Shoot more, write less. A properly staked bolt carrier won’t matter nearly as much as a sub 8 minute mile when you need it.
^^^^^^^^ TLDR - It's the Indian, not the arrow.
Did you mean - The AR15, UNlike the 1911, is not complicated.
Are you bacing this off of actual real experiencs or was it from what the poeple on the internet have told you?
In my sample-of-one expirience, yes, my BCM upper receiver group is superior to my PSA upper receiver group.
That is irrelevant to the OP, neither BCM's or PSA's site shows any 14.5" M4 barrels with FSB.
Andy
I would love to run and gun, swing a kettlebell and shoot an at unknown distance with half of the people on here spending their entire days arguing about the damn TDP. I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back. Shoot more, write less. A properly staked bolt carrier won’t matter nearly as much as a sub 8 minute mile when you need it.
You mean the guy who is arguably one of the top trigger pullers on this forum?
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RobertTheTexan
06-19-18, 20:57
This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I’ll say it- It’s just not that hard to build an AR that I would walk through an Iraqi doorway with. It’s 2018. The TDP isn’t goddamn magic. Has anyone heard of reverse engineering? The AR15, like the 1911, is not complicated. You don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get one thats worthy of clearing your way from your mom’s basement to the kitchen.
I served, overseas, with an MOS that primarily involved kicking doors in. The only weapon systems I truly liked were the M24 and the 240B. The M9 was alright as well. All of my AR’s were hit or miss and they were all Colt. The 110 made by Jesus, I mean KAC, was a damn nightmare to try and shoot consistently well at distance. Who makes it matters significantly less than people think. I have two BCM’s, and neither blow my doors off. The two times I’ve called them I’ve been less than impressed with the attitude on the other end of the phone.
I would love to run and gun, swing a kettlebell and shoot an at unknown distance with half of the people on here spending their entire days arguing about the damn TDP. I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back. Shoot more, write less. A properly staked bolt carrier won’t matter nearly as much as a sub 8 minute mile when you need it.
Who are you so wise in the ways of AR’s and life in general? Seriously, what a great post. I didn’t learn kicking in doors, I learned by buying parts and discovering that a couple $235 lower receivers that Gandalf forged in the fires of Mount Doom was less than any other lower I owned including ANDERSON, Aero (by leaps and bounds) and even... wait.. get ready for it.. the Bushmaster lower receiver that I recently built a damn fine AR on top of. Oh and for far less than $1000. Like waaaaaaaay less.
Let’s face it. A lot of guys are hung up on the Names. Not just company/brand names but who uses it. They spend the money (as I have) and justification is just as natural as breathing. I almost went down that path, Until a friend called me out and reminded me about DPMS lower with an butt-ton if rounds through it, 2 LPK’s and 3 triggers I think.
Anyway, it’s a spot on post, and man I’ll shoot with you anytime.
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wetidlerjr
06-19-18, 21:05
This thread is way better than "Days of Our Lives"! I am gobsmacked.
Now, where (exactly) are the 14.5" M4 barrels with FSBs these days? :cool:
This thread is way better than "Days of Our Lives"! I am gobsmacked.
Now, where (exactly) are the 14.5" M4 barrels with FSBs these days? :cool:
heres one
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/771818700
Fordtough25
06-19-18, 21:19
I would agree the colt socom barrel is great, my Noveske 14.5" shoots amazingly well and they can make you one with a fsb. I don't have an issue with bcm rifles but isn't bcm just a really good assembler/marketer?
redpillregret
06-19-18, 21:29
I would agree the colt socom barrel is great, my Noveske 14.5" shoots amazingly well and they can make you one with a fsb. I don't have an issue with bcm rifles but isn't bcm just a really good assembler/marketer?
Isn’t Colt just an assembler?
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Mr. Goodtimes
06-19-18, 21:39
This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I’ll say it- It’s just not that hard to build an AR that I would walk through an Iraqi doorway with. It’s 2018. The TDP isn’t goddamn magic. Has anyone heard of reverse engineering? The AR15, like the 1911, is not complicated. You don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get one thats worthy of clearing your way from your mom’s basement to the kitchen.
I served, overseas, with an MOS that primarily involved kicking doors in. The only weapon systems I truly liked were the M24 and the 240B. The M9 was alright as well. All of my AR’s were hit or miss and they were all Colt. The 110 made by Jesus, I mean KAC, was a damn nightmare to try and shoot consistently well at distance. Who makes it matters significantly less than people think. I have two BCM’s, and neither blow my doors off. The two times I’ve called them I’ve been less than impressed with the attitude on the other end of the phone.
I would love to run and gun, swing a kettlebell and shoot an at unknown distance with half of the people on here spending their entire days arguing about the damn TDP. I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back. Shoot more, write less. A properly staked bolt carrier won’t matter nearly as much as a sub 8 minute mile when you need it.
You can’t really blame someone for not wanting to meet a stranger from the Internet. I had an awful experience with that as a child and haven’t ever done any blind Internet meetups since. I’m even afraid to try tinder.
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Mr. Goodtimes
06-19-18, 21:43
You seemed to have missed several points. I was referring to companies like LMT and KAC who made material design improvements that have influenced or directly incorporated into current generation weapons, with good reason.
I gave credit to bcm for the kmr, and I use gunfighter ch's, but don't really consider it a huge breakthrough, as it was just evolutionary improvement of the badger /tac-latch stuff. Not sure I buy that they were first with mid-lengths, though they certainly did champion it.
I still say, there is a big difference from the bcm/noveske/larue/LBC companies and Colt/FN/HK/LMT/KAC/Walther/imi.
BCM was absolutely not the first with a mid length. RRA was making mid lengths WAY before BCM was even a dirty thought and so was Noveske (those are just off the top of my head). Now, I’d wager BCM’s expert marketing certainly contributed to the mid lengths proliferation.
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redpillregret
06-19-18, 22:27
I believe Colt developed the first failed mid-length in the 1960s. Armalite made the first commercially successful model in the 1990s. There were also some bastardized lengths along the way.
I believe RRA had made some mids in the early 2000s that were over-gassed like the others.
IIRC, the change from 16” to 14.5” mid-lengths happened around 2008 or 2009, and there were growing pains until BCM hammered them out.
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I'm going to go kick in my bathroom door to try to gain some better knowledge on how the AR platform works.
It's one thing to debate about the strengths and weaknesses of various companies, but purse fighting like a bunch of old babushkas over the last cabbage at the state commissary is another. ArmyChief must be rolling in his grave.
wetidlerjr
06-20-18, 02:40
It's one thing to debate about the strengths and weaknesses of various companies, but purse fighting like a bunch of old babushkas over the last cabbage at the state commissary is another. ArmyChief must be rolling in his grave.
You got that right!
Fordtough25
06-20-18, 04:08
Isn’t Colt just an assembler?
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Maybe so these days, but they didn't use to be right? Who makes their own barrels anymore, DD, Noveske, KAC, Colt? I think the QC companies provide is where the quality outshines the ordinary. Bcm does a superb job of shipping a quality product, no question there!
Edit: FN makes barrels too of course.
Moose-Knuckle
06-20-18, 05:18
This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I’ll say it- It’s just not that hard to build an AR that I would walk through an Iraqi doorway with. It’s 2018. The TDP isn’t goddamn magic. Has anyone heard of reverse engineering? The AR15, like the 1911, is not complicated. You don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get one thats worthy of clearing your way from your mom’s basement to the kitchen.
I served, overseas, with an MOS that primarily involved kicking doors in. The only weapon systems I truly liked were the M24 and the 240B. The M9 was alright as well. All of my AR’s were hit or miss and they were all Colt. The 110 made by Jesus, I mean KAC, was a damn nightmare to try and shoot consistently well at distance. Who makes it matters significantly less than people think. I have two BCM’s, and neither blow my doors off. The two times I’ve called them I’ve been less than impressed with the attitude on the other end of the phone.
I would love to run and gun, swing a kettlebell and shoot an at unknown distance with half of the people on here spending their entire days arguing about the damn TDP. I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back. Shoot more, write less. A properly staked bolt carrier won’t matter nearly as much as a sub 8 minute mile when you need it.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TangibleExaltedHawk-size_restricted.gif
redpillregret
06-20-18, 08:47
Maybe so these days, but they didn't use to be right? Who makes their own barrels anymore, DD, Noveske, KAC, Colt? I think the QC companies provide is where the quality outshines the ordinary. Bcm does a superb job of shipping a quality product, no question there!
Edit: FN makes barrels too of course.
I was under the impression Colt outsourced their barrels. I could easily be wrong.
Noveske outsources their barrels. PacNor for SS and to a hammer forger for the chrome moly.
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indianalex01
06-20-18, 15:52
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TangibleExaltedHawk-size_restricted.gif
CPM stop being a baggard. Sounds like you were super duper Spec ops. You embarrass yourself doing that. You going to list your decorations next?
CPM stop being a baggard. Sounds like you were super duper Spec ops. You embarrass yourself doing that. You going to list your decorations next?
Oh, come on, we've got a couple of alphabet spewing humble braggers on board here, are you going to call them all out?
For sure, this much of what he said is true:
It’s just not that hard to build an AR that I would walk through an Iraqi doorway with. It’s 2018. The TDP isn’t goddamn magic. Has anyone heard of reverse engineering? The AR15, like the 1911, is not complicated. You don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get one thats worthy of clearing your way from your mom’s basement to the kitchen.
indianalex01
06-20-18, 16:23
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TangibleExaltedHawk-size_restricted.gif
Oh, come on, we've got a couple of alphabet spewing humble braggers on board here, are you going to call them all out?
For sure, this much of what he said is true:
It’s just not that hard to build an AR that I would walk through an Iraqi doorway with. It’s 2018. The TDP isn’t goddamn magic. Has anyone heard of reverse engineering? The AR15, like the 1911, is not complicated. You don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get one thats worthy of clearing your way from your mom’s basement to the kitchen.
No, the bragging about what you say you did has nothing to with the thread. Also throwing Gods name around. Come on man, are you 20 years old? There are good solid rifle and parts out there. BCM from my expericance is substandard as well as their customer service. Maybe. Got a lemon. It happens. Also, if you ever make it up to Mn. I will shoot with you CPM. I will even provide the ammo. Just try being a little humble.
Leaveammoforme
06-20-18, 16:27
...I’ve actually invited one of the loudest mouths on here to do so and never heard back...
Bro...I not only accepted but I RSVP'd.
indianalex01
06-20-18, 16:57
Bro...I not only accepted but I RSVP'd.
I guess he backed out on you. 😂. I am glad did though. Got to expose frauds. I hate that stuff. :mad:
Bro...I not only accepted but I RSVP'd.
Wasn't you, my dude.
CPM stop being a baggard. Sounds like you were super duper Spec ops. You embarrass yourself doing that. You going to list your decorations next?
Do I need to point out the irony of you wearing your medals in your profile picture and listing your MOS in your signature? I was just a regular grunt, dude, doing what regular grunts do. All of my heroes have their names on bracelets.
Mr. Goodtimes
06-20-18, 18:18
I guess he backed out on you. [emoji23]. I am glad did though. Got to expose frauds. I hate that stuff. :mad:
Deciding against traveling to another state to meet some total stranger from the Internet to shoot guns does not make you a fraud, it means you value the integrity of your anus, and your life. We just assume people on here are normal, and I’m sure CPM is a fine guy... but for all I know he could be a serial killer/rapist. He’s just a guy on the other end of a screen.
Personally, if I was a Ted Bundy or some really sick pervert, I probably would try and lure gun owners. IMO gun owners are even easier to lure than fat kids who are missing a father figure. Most guns owners are about as easy to lure as it gets. Show them some KAC and a cool place to shoot and next thing you know.... hands are tied and their squealing like a pig. A modest collection of KAC is substantially cheaper than a nice well kept, inviting, low miles ice cream truck, or god forbid a candy store.
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Outlander Systems
06-20-18, 18:22
Knowing Euro personally, I can state he’s:
Absolutely the best shooter I’ve ever encountered.
A really good guy.
I wouldn’t want to get hate raped by some rando from the net either. Just sayin’.
Deciding against traveling to another state to meet some total stranger from the Internet to shoot guns does not make you a fraud, it means you value the integrity of your anus, and your life. We just assume people on here are normal, and I’m sure CPM is a fine guy... but for all I know he could be a serial killer/rapist. He’s just a guy on the other end of a screen.
Personally, if I was a Ted Bundy or some really sick pervert, I probably would try and lure gun owners. IMO gun owners are even easier to lure than fat kids who are missing a father figure. Most guns owners are about as easy to lure as it gets. Show them some KAC and a cool place to shoot and next thing you know.... hands are tied and their squealing like a pig. A modest collection of KAC is substantially cheaper than a nice well kept, inviting, low miles ice cream truck, or god forbid a candy store.
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indianalex01
06-20-18, 19:24
Do I need to point out the irony of you wearing your medals in your profile picture and listing your MOS in your signature? I was just a regular grunt, dude, doing what regular grunts do. All of my heroes have their names on bracelets.
posting a picture of my wife and myself at The Marine Corps Ball is not bragging. Now if I was bragging about my metals and all of that then that would be another story but I’m not you. I don’t need to brag. I am just calling it like I see it. Stick with the topic and stop bragging about your war exploits. If true, great on you and thank you but be humble. As far as my signature goes I have not had anybody even ask what 8541 is unless you’re in that community.
On to the subject. I am really liking the 14.5 colt socom barrels. Great accuracy and heavy duty. I also looked up that 12.5 Hodge barrel. That really has my interest. Anybody shoot one or have reports?
It's one thing to debate about the strengths and weaknesses of various companies, but purse fighting like a bunch of old babushkas over the last cabbage at the state commissary is another. ArmyChief must be rolling in his grave.
Thanks for your contribution to the conversation. Well done.
I’m out. I even contributed to the arfcom-ness of this thread, for which I apologize.
wetidlerjr
06-20-18, 20:46
It's one thing to debate about the strengths and weaknesses of various companies, but purse fighting like a bunch of old babushkas over the last cabbage at the state commissary is another. ArmyChief must be rolling in his grave.
Thanks for your contribution to the conversation. Well done.
Indeed!
Leaveammoforme
06-20-18, 20:46
I guess he backed out on you. 😂. I am glad did though. Got to expose frauds. I hate that stuff. :mad:
I was just kidding around when I posted that, however... We are setting up a play date as we are not far away from each other.
I don't plan on getting raped but we'll just play it by ear. :)
indianalex01
06-20-18, 22:20
I was just kidding around when I posted that, however... We are setting up a play date as we are not far away from each other.
I don't plan on getting raped but we'll just play it by ear. :)
I actually hope he is the real deal. Get so tired of frauds on the forums.
Everybody lighten up. It's just the internet.
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