Pocket Pistol Kahr pm9 questions [Archive]

LDM

06-16-18, 11:32

A PM9 is one of three Kahrs I have owned. A K9 had issues stovepiping the second round, which I believe stemmed from the magazine and more particularly the follower. A PM45 ran like a champ.
However... the PM9 was a project.
From my experience and from posts I have seen on forums, the PM9 is generally a working weapon, but there are certainly a number of folks who have experienced problems (like me!). For example I went through three barrel replacements before I got one that was right. And while Kahr replaced the barrels at no cost, Kahr is very clear and specific that a new Kahr should go through 200 rounds to break it in. So each barrel actually cost me ammo and time. At the end of the day my PM9 did run, but at considerable effort and added expense.
And the size of the PM9 makes it relatively more difficult to shoot.
I no longer have that Kahr PM9. (If you decide to get one, send me a pm as I happened upon a couple of PM magazines in my parts box.)
My present subcompact is a Walther PPS, which I can recommend wholeheartedly. Particularly in summer, my PPS is almost my primary carry using a Galco ankle holster.

Kchen986

06-16-18, 12:04

Carried a PM9 with safety as my pocket pistol for a couple of years, as I'm usually in a suit. Ended up going with a Glock 43. The PM9 is difficult to shoot well, especially with the tiny grip--almost akin to shooting .38 snub noses with full power loads. The trigger also changes based on the # of rounds you have in the magazine--the initial round is light but the last round will be significantly heavier due to the magazine's pressure against the slide. Never had a malfunction with mine, but I know some PM9s had case-hardening issues with the barrel.

Would I recommend it? Not anymore. Try the Glock 43 and the PM9 before you decide.

oldtexan

06-16-18, 12:09

I've had a PM9 since I bought it new in 2005( serial VB80XX). It has had about 2850 rds through it. In 2010, at about 1800 rds I sent it back for the barrel peening recall. Mine was unreliable for the first 400-500 rds with frequent failures to return to battery; it gradually got better after that. I didn't keep great records back then, and the cause may have been a bad mag, bad ammo, or bad technique. Since rd 1250 I've had a single stoppage, at about rd 1500. Yes, it's harder to shoot well than bigger guns. I've also noticed it seems to need a new recoil spring assy about every 750 rds, too. But it's the only 9mm I've ever found that will fit in most pockets, and more importantly, that allows me to draw rapidly and smoothly. It fits a niche for me so I hang onto it.

Hemoglobin

06-16-18, 12:27

I had a pm9 and cw9. I sold them off as I grew with what I thought I needed. I carry a vp9sk and have a vp9 tac that are stock, except for i put full cover striker covers on them. Recently, because of a work change, I have to be more discrete and will be buying a pps with euro mag release.

When I was looking I thought back to the break in and decided it wasn't worth it to me to deal with the possibilities. Not when the pps, 43, and shield are out there.

That said when I was buying my vp9tac my fiance asked to see a 380 version that was in the case. He made a buy 1 get one deal that I really didn't want to pass up because she made it seem like I may be back to get it anyway. She loves it, its been fine, and it's better to have the gun on her body at the law office than in a vault on her desk when she's away from it. So there it is. If you get one that works and the slightly smaller footprint means it will be on you. Rock it. Just vet it.

Edit: accidental cap lock would have possibly changed the way the sentence was read.

gaijin

06-16-18, 13:09

I grew up shooting "K" frame revolvers- with nice double actions.

My familiarity with that trigger was what caused me to go with a PM9 as a back up/deep concealment gun.
No regrets.

Icing on the cake was the 115 gr. GD's (Standard pressure) chrono'd low 1200 FPS and were accurate. Six rds. headshot at 15 yds. on an IPSC target was a regular deal.

https://i.imgur.com/8F79zHB.jpg

ggammell

06-16-18, 13:25

I’ve had one since 2005-2006ish. Similar serial to the one above.

I haven’t had many of the problems mentioned above. I’ve noticed no change in trigger pull as you go through the mag. I have noticed that it feeds reliable if you drop he slide with the slide stop/release as opposed to sling shotting it.

It is uncomfortable to shoot a lot. Is usually run maybe a hundred rounds through it before quals. It’s accurate enough. I have qualed into mid 90s with it a couple times. I don’t get to worried because it’s definitely a bad breath distance gun and is mostly used as an on duty back up after years of being my primary off duty carry gun.

I use a leather pocket holster for it. Significantly reduces the dust build up from the neoprene/synthetic style pocket holsters. I’m considering on of the BFG holsters.

HardToHandle

06-16-18, 14:49

Not recommended.

I had a PM9 I ran close to 9k rounds. It stopped being reliable, even after replacements spring, trips to the factory, etc. My assumption is the frame was just shot out but I ran out of patience after spending half the value in pistol in new parts.

The biggest issue, as noted, is getting a Kahr to run. Great when they do, miserable customer service when they don’t. I had a cat named Steve IIRC who was self-described as Kahr’s Oldest Technician tell me my gun could not fail in the matter I described. Lots of attitude but he STFU when I sent pictures of a one piece barrel that became two pieces. Magazines and accessories are pricey too.

There is a reported issue with PM9s running in freezing weather. I noticed it several times, very slow cycling and occasional return to battery. Changed oils, removed all grease, etc. Cannot absolutely say it was not my fault, but it only occurred when exposed to cold - so never when presented from my preferred AIWB. Take the gun in a range bag in January, very prone to FtF. That may or may not be a concern depending on environment.

As noted above, I liked the trigger pull, other ergonomics, etc. on both Kahrs I have owned. Both have had failed and went back to the factory. Now I have a Glock 26 - cheaper, more reliable from day one but not as refined.

SteveS

06-17-18, 23:40

I have owned a Kahr Pm 9 for about 8 years and I will say it works well and is accurate , I really like the 147 gn 9mm for accuracy. That being said I do not own but love the 9mm S@W Shield much better than the Kahr. A sub compact doesn't need to be target accurate. How far would self defense distances be?

Tigereye

06-18-18, 06:38

I've had a CW9 for about 8 years. In my case, the break in period was very real with several failures in the first 2-400 rounds with ball ammo. My gun didn't drop mags free. The mag would drop about 1-2" and stick. The Kahr rep called it a safety feature but I sent it back to them to have the "safety feature" removed. I think it just had cheap mags that would have broken if dropped on concrete. Since the first 400 rounds or so, I have found the gun to be reliable, accurate, and easy to shoot. My wife really likes it and we still have it. I have moved on to a Shield for this style of gun.

thegreyman

07-03-18, 08:41

I have a Kahr CM9; I have fired over 500 rounds through it including Federal American Eagle RN 115 and 147 FP Ball, Winchester 147 Ranger, and 124 Gold Dots. I have had zero malfunctions and find it user friendly. Helps to load first round as recommended by Kahr.

SiGfever

07-03-18, 15:48

ggammell

07-03-18, 15:57

I’d have to say the only way to go with a PM9 now is if a G43 etc does not fit in your pocket. I don’t particularly like how it pocket carries so I never went down that road.

Beat Trash

07-03-18, 16:10

I bought a PM9 in about 2005. Kept it for about 5 years. I had a low round count on that gun, about 900-1,000 rounds.

It was reliable when fired. Carrying a spare magazine in the pocket of shorts and found that rounds would slowly pop out of the magazine. On one trip to the zoo with my kids, I ended up with just one round left in the spare magazine by the time I had a chance to go to the restroom and check the issue out.

The gun was a lot like shooting an alloy framed J-Frame. Quality control barrier from gun to gun. I ended up selling the gun. One of the few guns that I have sold in my life that I have no regrets selling off.

Today, if given the choice between a PM9 and a Glock 43, I wouldn grab a Glock 43 in a heartbeat.

m4brian

07-03-18, 16:30

Bought mine used about 10 years ago. Never had a problem. It’s what I like to carry in church. You can forget about it and while a round can get lose, I just check before I Carry. Light, slim, controllable, reliable, accurate. Not the gun to do courses with and shoot several thousand rounds, but I think durable enough, and great CCW.

As usual, our friend nails it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sirRpCHlscw

dreamcrusher8307

07-03-18, 21:43

I've had a CM40 for about 5 years now. Probably 1000 rounds through it. Carry it half the time in an IWB and half the time in a pocket nemesis.

I didn't have any teething issues with mine, but like others have said, not the most fun to shoot for long periods. The trigger is super silky smooth! Reminds me of a well used DA revolver.

I would agree though, that nowadays there are better options.

Ed L.

07-04-18, 00:02

I've had good luck with 2 Kahr PM-9s. Neither needed breaking in beyond the first magazine or two. It is a 9mm with a 5.3" overall length that lends itself well to pocket carry in dress slacks or a suit (though many pairs of dress slacks and suits need to have the pockets deepened by a tailor to make sure that it doesn't print. I bought one in around 2003 and another in 2017. I probably have about 2000 rounds through the 2 guns combined.

I have heard a some stories about them that would give me pause if I were considering buying one. But I have had a very good experience with both of my Kahr PM-9s.

butlers

07-04-18, 01:14

A primer for those trying to interpret all the Kahr models; sticking with just those chambered in 9x19mm for now:

C/CM/CW/CT series = budget line
K/MK/P/PM/T series = "premium" line

MK9 = micro
CM9 = subcompact (Glock 26-esque)
PM9 = subcompact
CW9 = compact (Glock 19-esque)
K9 = compact
P9 = compact
CT9 = full-size (Glock 17-esque)
T9 = full-size

P.S. While I realize that Kahr Arms' ideological/religious background is not relevant for some (many?), it is undeniably...different from that of Colt, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, etc:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/style/wp/2018/05/21/feature/two-sons-of-rev-moon-have-split-from-his-church-and-their-followers-are-armed/

m4brian

07-04-18, 08:17

I am likely tremendously at odds with the Kahr founder theologically, but he is not a threat to me the same way as say an Islamist government is. I don’t mind buying their guns. I don’t mind buying JMB stuff either and likely have large theological differences with him also. Maybe the most patriotic denomination out there.

They also have a new series, the ST. Rail and 2 mags. Nice guns and according to reports don’t need breakin. I have the Tig model and it shoots very well OTB.

Bret

07-05-18, 22:52

I have a Kahr CW40 that I bought back in 2010. I've fired 354rds through it. It's reliable, but it's just too small/light for 40S&W. If I had to do it over again, I'd buy a 9mm. However, I won't do it over again because I really don't like the trigger. It is smooth, but it's like shooting a revolver.

My present subcompact is a Walther PPS, which I can recommend wholeheartedly. Particularly in summer, my PPS is almost my primary carry using a Galco ankle holster.
+1 The Walther PPS is a joy to shoot and a much better gun on many levels versus the Kahr. I'd also recommend the S&W Shield, but the PPS is better than the Shield in my opinion.

Helix12

07-06-18, 17:27

titsonritz

07-06-18, 17:37

What or who is JMB? Thanks.

John Moses Browning was Mormon, in other words, he has no problem buying guns from the Moonies or LDS even he may not share the same beliefs, Jihadi-Guns-R-Us not so much.

SeriousStudent

07-06-18, 18:22

What or who is JMB? Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhntG_8PUs

Sweet baby Jebus! :stop:

John Moses Browning (peace be unto him) was the greatest firearms designer that has ever trod the Earth. To be unfamiliar with his initials is a terrible thing.

Now go recite the Four Rules of Firearms Safety 10 times, and sin no more.

thespyhunter

07-06-18, 18:44

Ned Christiansen

07-06-18, 18:55

At first the Kahrs were so good I had a little spiel about them on my site but I took it down long ago. Different folks and different models will have different results I suppose but in the last ten-twelve years at least, I have not seen one I would carry, to include three .380s a few years back, each from Chicago-area cops, each had been back a few times ("well, we shot it and it worked fine") or discussed with Kahr . All had waaay excessive extractor tension and were easy to fix but Kahr had no clue. They told one guy it was because he was slingshot-loading it and "the gun can't take the extra shock, it jumbles up the rounds in the magazine".

Bret

07-06-18, 20:18

They told one guy it was because he was slingshot-loading it and "the gun can't take the extra shock, it jumbles up the rounds in the magazine".
Yep, it say to only press on the slide stop right on page 16 of the manual.
https://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf
Honestly, I wouldn't have believed that if I didn't read it myself.

m4brian

07-07-18, 08:18

The two Kahrs I have, one old and one new run fine even with Wolf. They load from sling shot or SS. Of course not using the slide stop is dumb (for the sake of speed). They fill a niche for me because when I want something SLIM and LIGHT, that is what I want. I also prefer to carry a gun that has a DA first shot. Other small slim guns don't do that, and some aren't all that light.

signal4l

07-07-18, 10:22

I just shot a Kahr last night. T9 model. It went to slide lock every time. I field stripped it and couldnt get the slide release reinstalled. This is a brand new gun. I'm going to guess that Kahr does not test fire their weapons before shipment.

I will contact the factory and advise.

Ned Christiansen

07-15-18, 09:42

Honestly? I'll bet they do test fire them.... and what I'm going to say probably applies to other makers as well-- I'll bet they test fire them and when there's a malfunction in those three rounds they ship it anyway, because hey, it's not, like, broken in, right? And that's up to you. Dear customer, your gun probably won't work until you put $100 worth of ammo through it (or $1000 according to some).

Are. You. EFFING. Kidding me?

I think that break-in period is a total cop-out that allows makers to ship guns that they are not confident in and then when it doesn't work for you, it's your fault for not "breaking it in" or some other thing like slingshotting the slide. Oh, it needs the parts mated by shooting because they're rough? Idea: don't make them rough. The break-in requirement is their free pass to manufacture to a lower standard. My guess is they have run the numbers and arrived at a point where manufacturing savings vs / the rate of problems actually realized by the customer and resulting warranty return costs are right where they want them.

First impressions are pretty hard to shake, and when they're bad ("damned thing doesn't work!") that's really hard for the end user to get over. That they (industry in general, not picking on Kahr) don't know this or don't care about it, is appalling.

Is it a good idea to run hundreds of rounds through a gun before depending on it, of course. That's different.

Bret

07-15-18, 10:17

Well said Ned.

signal4l

07-15-18, 13:00

I remember looking at Kahr pistols in the early 2000s. I wish I bought one then. Kahr sent me a fed ex label. The gun went back there 2 days ago. When I get it back I will give it a good flogging.

I read an article about these pistols when they first came to the market. If I remember correctly Kahr's use of the off set feed ramp may have infringed on a patent held by Seecamp. The owner of Kahr did the ethical thing and worked out a fair deal without pissing away time and money with attorneys, lawsuits. Sad to see how things have changed.

I appreciate Ned chiming in on this thread. He has probably forgotten more about guns than most of use will ever know

Ned Christiansen

07-16-18, 00:07

Sounds like they are taking care of you sofar..... I hope it goes all the way to "fixed the gun".

Many places, the warranty service is carried out by a person who is not a bad person nor a stupid one, but one who has no knowledge or training on how guns work. What they have is a check box. Customer says gun won't lock back, change slide stop. Customer says gun misfires, change striker / striker spring. Customers says magazine won't seat, change mag catch---- etc. Fire five time and ship it. I hope they do better for you!

Helix12

07-16-18, 18:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhntG_8PUs

Sweet baby Jebus! :stop:

John Moses Browning (peace be unto him) was the greatest firearms designer that has ever trod the Earth. To be unfamiliar with his initials is a terrible thing.

Now go recite the Four Rules of Firearms Safety 10 times, and sin no more.

Hello, BOY.

I'm in my late 60s and have been a shooter my whole life. My first center fire gun was a Belgium Browning in 20 gauge. I have owned I don't know how many Browning guns in my life and I damn well know who John Moses Browning. But I did not know people disrespected him by calling by the silly JMB. Understand BOY?

And I damn sure don't need any ass to advise me to read about Browning as I have been reading about his life and his guns since I was a teenager in the 60s. I don't need you advice about safety rules either as I was teaching organized gun safety to youths when I was in my 20's along with being an NRA Life Member since I was 27 years old.

So, BOY you can now go wash you ignorant mouth out with soap for using the name of Jesus as a slur. What an ass!

titsonritz

07-16-18, 21:44

Hello, BOY.

I'm in my late 60s and have been a shooter my whole life. My first center fire gun was a Belgium Browning in 20 gauge. I have owned I don't know how many Browning guns in my life and I damn well know who John Moses Browning. But I did not know people disrespected him by calling by the silly JMB. Understand BOY?

And I damn sure don't need any ass to advise me to read about Browning as I have been reading about his life and his guns since I was a teenager in the 60s. I don't need you advice about safety rules either as I was teaching organized gun safety to youths when I was in my 20's along with being an NRA Life Member since I was 27 years old.

So, BOY you can now go wash you ignorant mouth out with soap for using the name of Jesus as a slur. What an ass!

How/where did you get anyone calling Browning "silly JMB"?

BTW, you were the one who asked who or what is JMB, so maybe consider lightening up just a tad.

wanderson

07-18-18, 18:21

I had a pm45 for a few years, always liked how it felt and how it shot but even after the 500 round break in mine would occasionally feed a round too high and catch on the top edge of the chamber, jamming the bullet into the case.

I tried multiple mags, different ammo, tweaked this, fixed & polished that, just wasn’t reliable enough so I let it go.

Someone once posted a Kahr is a great pistol hampered with crappy mags. I think that was true of mine. And it’s the only pistol that I’ve heard multiple people complain of rounds popping out when pocket carrying a spare mag.

buckshot1220

07-18-18, 21:23

I owned a PM9 about a decade back for 2-3 years. Around that time single stack 9s were hard to find, I think it was really just Kahr and the PPS. I ran somewhere around 3k rounds through it with no major failures other than an occasional failure to return to battery which just required a nudge on the slide. This was infrequent enough that I felt comfortable carrying it. Eventually it did succumb to the barrel peening issues and I sold it once fixed.

Fast forward to today and there are more guns in the marketplace that make a lot more sense than the Kahr. My go-to is now a Glock 43 and I would not trade it for a PM9 even if the PM9 is a bit smaller in some dimensions.

I'd take a hard look in no particular order at the 43, Shield, PPS, LC9 and P365. All of those should outperform the Kahr in many ways over their useful life.

bp7178

07-18-18, 22:27

I owned a PM9 about a decade back for 2-3 years. Around that time single stack 9s were hard to find, I think it was really just Kahr and the PPS. I ran somewhere around 3k rounds through it with no major failures other than an occasional failure to return to battery which just required a nudge on the slide. This was infrequent enough that I felt comfortable carrying it.

I owned a PM9 in a similar time frame. I found the only time I would have fail to return to battery malfunctions, was with the 7 rnd extended mag, which had a ridiculously longer spring than the flush 6 rnd magazines. If the 7 rnd mag were to malfunction, it would be on loading the first or second round from the mag and would run fine after that. I always carried it with the flush magazine, so it didn't effect me unless I was at the range.

SeriousStudent

07-18-18, 22:36

Hello, BOY.

I'm in my late 60s and have been a shooter my whole life. My first center fire gun was a Belgium Browning in 20 gauge. I have owned I don't know how many Browning guns in my life and I damn well know who John Moses Browning. But I did not know people disrespected him by calling by the silly JMB. Understand BOY?

And I damn sure don't need any ass to advise me to read about Browning as I have been reading about his life and his guns since I was a teenager in the 60s. I don't need you advice about safety rules either as I was teaching organized gun safety to youths when I was in my 20's along with being an NRA Life Member since I was 27 years old.

So, BOY you can now go wash you ignorant mouth out with soap for using the name of Jesus as a slur. What an ass!

Goodbye. Feel free to return when you understand humor.

By the way, don't assume you are older or more experienced than me.

signal4l

07-24-18, 14:13

Just got a reply from Kahr...there is currently a 7-8 week turnaround on gun repairs. Over the last two and a half decades I've sent guns back to Glock, Sig, Smith & Wesson and Ruger. None of them took nearly that long to fix something that shouldn't have been broken in the first place. Not a good sign when a manufacturer is backlogged on repairs.

Bret

07-24-18, 15:07

You've sent guns back to the most professional companies in the business. Most are not so prompt. 7-8 weeks is pretty typical. I'm not saying that's acceptable, but it's typical. Also typical is estimating the turn around time by a very significant amount and failing to actually repair the pistol. Send video if you can. I can't tell you how many times I had guns returned with the claim of not being able to duplicate the problem. Video has eliminated that problem.

TMS951

07-24-18, 16:07

I have one, cool little gun. Until it doesn't shoot.

I live in Vermont, it gets cold. The gun will not release the striker when its cold. Warms up its fine. I can repeat this 100% by putting the gun in the freezer. Its a known probem, I didn't bother sending it back because they were making it difficult.

signal4l

08-26-18, 19:28

I got mine back from customer service a little sooner than anticipated. They replace the slide stop spring and recoil spring. I have about 200 rounds through it with no issues.

Dienekes

08-28-18, 14:29

Had a CW45 a few years back. Loved the trigger and accuracy. Endless issues, some of which I was able to fix, most not. Finally dumped it, having better things to do.

Still prefer duty sized guns, but the .45 Shield offers the same advantages plus reliability. Don’t have enough rounds through it yet but it beats the hell out of that Kahr.

Even weirder, I picked up a Ruger LC9s for just over $200. Excellent trigger, shoots to the sights, just works.

Kahr has had, what—20 years to produce a gun that works? Hi-Point does better than that.