Hornady TAP 55grn training, 6920 bad idea?

[ballsout]

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=72&sID=94

Utilizing efficient production processes and quality lacquer-coated steel cases, Hornady® Training™ ammunition delivers reliable functioning, accuracy, and comparable point of aim / point of impact consistency when compared to comparable duty rounds.

Anybody have a write up on this stuff. I'm thinking it might be better than Monarch from Academy but I am not sure i like steel and lacquer. On the other hand Hornady is a trusted name and this ammo is also used for law enforcement training. Anybody have some advice?

[andre3k]

I wonder how can their lacquer coated steel cases be better than any of the other steel cased ammo out there?

[markm]

Mimicking a duty load isn't important enough to me to justify shooting steel cased ammo.

[xm15]

I called and asked noveske about running it in one of the guns I got from him and he was against it. chamberwise anyways.this of course AFTER I ran some thru it:D

[Shihan]

Mimicking a duty load isn't important enough to me to justify shooting steel cased ammo.

Im with you but im thinking of a junker to shoot Wolf through!

[bullitt5172]

Im with you but im thinking of a junker to shoot Wolf through!

I've never had a single issue running steel cased Wolf through ANY of my rifles. I keep it out of my precision AR's as there is no need to shoot it, it's not that accurate. There is no way I would own an AR that wouldn't run Wolf. I run quite a few training classes a year and my "training gun" Colt 6721 has seen over 7000rds of 55gr Wolf. It has went "bang" exactly 7000 times.

[andre3k]

I called and asked noveske about running it in one of the guns I got from him and he was against it. chamberwise anyways.this of course AFTER I ran some thru it:D

Did he give a reason why?

For a $1200+ AR, I would expect it to feed bricks reliably.

[SeriousStudent]

Grant sells it, and I have bought it.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=TAP75P&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dtap%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html

My 6920 eats it like a famine victim at a midnight buffet. Ravenously, at high-speed, and with no observed ill effects. I check the extractor afterwards, and it seems fine.

My "go to" Pmags are loaded with the brass-cased 5.56 75-grain TAP. But this stuff shoots just fine for me in practice, and at half the cost.

ETA: - the OP did talk about the 55-grain practice stuff. I have never fired any of that, only the 75-grain. But it has worked fine with me. My 6920 also feeds the 62-grain zinc-plated steel Barnual fine. It eats everything fine. The only two malfs I have ever had were related to a mag that was subsequently flattened under a boot. I have not had an ammo-related issue with it. I guess I am just another kool-aid drinker. ;)

[Parabellum9x19mm]

I called and asked noveske about running it in one of the guns I got from him and he was against it. chamberwise anyways.this of course AFTER I ran some thru it:D

i've run a little 75 practice TAP in my Noveskes occasionally. i prefer 75 PRVI, but the practice TAP hasn't broken anything yet. what's the worst that could happen anyway? a broken extractor or stuck case? i can't see running this ammo causing any serious, permanent damage. its not like the cases are hardened steel or anything.

i just don't shoot it often, because there are better alternatives from a cost/benefit perspective.

[Shihan]

I've never had a single issue running steel cased Wolf through ANY of my rifles. I keep it out of my precision AR's as there is no need to shoot it, it's not that accurate. There is no way I would own an AR that wouldn't run Wolf. I run quite a few training classes a year and my "training gun" Colt 6721 has seen over 7000rds of 55gr Wolf. It has went "bang" exactly 7000 times.

Im not worried about the Wolf going bang or not as I know it will. I dont shoot it(except for me one im building for it) for potential problems from the steel cases. .

[bullitt5172]

Im not worried about the Wolf going bang or not as I know it will. I dont shoot it(except for me one im building for it) for potential problems from the steel cases. .

That is why I posted, there are no potential problems with the steel case. Extracters issues are a myth....

[markm]

Yeah. I don't know of any issues with extractors.

My overall concern with shooting steel cased ammo in guns that aren't designed for the stuff is case stretch and expansion.

A steel case isn't going to behave like a brass case ever. It's like running the wrong fuel or oil in your car. It's still going to run, but it's not what it was designed to run on.

[Shihan]

That is why I posted, there are no potential problems with the steel case. Extracters issues are a myth....

I believe the steel cases will cause acelerated wear in several components.

[bullitt5172]

I believe the steel cases will cause acelerated wear in several components.

And I believe that has been proven to be false.....doesn't matter to me, less Wolf you guys buy means more training time for me. I prefer to shoot, IF by chance something wears out I'll replace it.

I can see where you are coming from, my home defense AR doesn't see anything but M855 and M193 normally. My training rigs see 100% Wolf ammo. What most don't seem to understand is that Wolf is on average $250/1000 and decent brass cased ammo is about $400/1000. That's $150 saved for every 1000 rounds. If by chance Wolf detroys my training upper (which isn't going to happen) in say 10k rounds, I have still saved $1500 and could buy two more complete uppers for the amount that I have saved. At least that logic makes sense to me ;)

[Shihan]

And I believe that has been proven to be false.....doesn't matter to me, less Wolf you guys buy means more training time for me. I prefer to shoot, IF by chance something wears out I'll replace it.

I can see where you are coming from, my home defense AR doesn't see anything but M855 and M193 normally. My training rigs see 100% Wolf ammo. What most don't seem to understand is that Wolf is on average $250/1000 and decent brass cased ammo is about $400/1000. That's $150 saved for every 1000 rounds. If by chance Wolf detroys my training upper (which isn't going to happen) in say 10k rounds, I have still saved $1500 and could buy two more complete uppers for the amount that I have saved. At least that logic makes sense to me ;)

If it has been proven I would like to see the data.

If you look at your response to my first post critiquing my usage you dont do anything different than I do as im building a training weapon specificaly for the steel cased stuff.

Now as to the saving of wolf vs. brass cased ammo things are a little different for me than the average as I am a Dealer and get depending on the brand a sizable price break and as things are it would save me 25bucks per k to shoot Wolf.

[bullitt5172]

If it has been proven I would like to see the data.

If you look at your response to my first post critiquing my usage you dont do anything different than I do as im building a training weapon specificaly for the steel cased stuff.

Now as to the saving of wolf vs. brass cased ammo things are a little different for me than the average as I am a Dealer and get depending on the brand a sizable price break and as things are it would save me 25bucks per k to shoot Wolf.

And I would like to see data that says steel cases ruin weapons beyond repair. Like I said, the most it would possibly do is wear out the ejector or extracter slighly faster than brass will. Wolf is dirty, not very accurate and smells funny...but it runs just fine and won't hurt the weapon IMO and my experience. I have a buddy who owns Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute, he shoots 20k+ rounds a years and nearly all of it is Wolf. Most of his students (including myself) shoot Wolf and none of use have ever broken anything. I'm not saying that brass ammo isn't a better option, if the price was nearly the same I wouldn't run Wolf. The cost difference is too great to discount Wolf as viable training ammo. I also have a link to a dealer (another buddy) and the difference is considerably higher than $25 for us ;)

I don't have dedicated "Wolf" guns as you are alluding to, I have all my training/range AR's and I have a home defense weapon. The only reason I don't normally run Wolf through the HD gun is that I only shoot it enough to make sure everything is in working order. I run Wolf through all my AR's to prove out reliability.

Again, if you feel better running brass ammo I'm all for it. I just think that everyone has an unfounded fear of Wolf ammo.

[markm]

I actually fired my second box of wolf this weekend.

It's completely un-Amercian. That's reason enough for me to not shoot it other than for experimentation.