View Full Version : It'll now take 22 weeks to train an Army Infantryman
https://www.army.mil/article/207623/army_to_extend_osut_for_infantry_soldiers
Holy Shiite Batman! Five months to train a grunt, from start to finish?
When I went in it was 13 weeks for Infantry OSUT. My cycle in particular was 12 weeks because we graduated a week before Christmas and apparently it wasn't worth the cost to the Army to bring us back for only one week so they crammed it in over 12 weeks. At some point it went to 14 weeks.
Now 22 weeks? Damn...….
HardToHandle
06-26-18, 19:59
Making a more lethal soldier...
More weapons training... absolutely.
CLS... saves a week of training at their unit and keeps soldiers in the fight.
More drill and ceremony maneuvers... great innovation for the Crimean or maybe the US Civil War. That way the young soldiers know what “refuse the right” means when fighting for Little Round Top.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
just a scout
06-26-18, 20:40
There’s more to being a Soldier than just weapons training and CLS. Drill and ceremonies has been neglected for too many decades. Same with Army and military history, Laws of Land Warfare, Code of Conduct and the Constitution. Not to be That Guy, but scout OSUT back in the day was 18 weeks and we went over all that at the schoolhouse. That was what Red Phase was all about.
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There’s more to being a Soldier than just weapons training and CLS. Drill and ceremonies has been neglected for too many decades. Same with Army and military history, Laws of Land Warfare, Code of Conduct and the Constitution. Not to be That Guy, but scout OSUT back in the day was 18 weeks and we went over all that at the schoolhouse. That was what Red Phase was all about.
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I don't know. I was in basic and in my opinion, the one week we dedicated fully to Drill and ceremony was a huge waste. I think that one week could have been better spent on pretty much any field training or range time. 10 weeks felt rushed, and seeing how many people were fumbling around with the important things (battle drills, land nav, and anything else needed in combat), I was shocked at how many graduated.
I hate to say it, but it made me very nervous that I could potentially be somewhere in the world where these people are supposed to have my back. I can really care less that some chick can march well, but what does that really matter if she can't lift you up/get you to safety in a bad situation?
I'm not trying to say that drill and ceremony should be tossed out or completely disregarded, but we are all rifleman first and then our own MOS second right?
Averageman
06-26-18, 20:52
Although I can appreciate this part;
The new OSUT program will include expanded weapons training, increased vehicle-platform familiarization, extensive combatives training and a 40-hour combat-lifesaver certification course, said Hedrick.
Further, the change will include increased time in the field during both day and night operations
This;
include an increased emphasis on drill and ceremony maneuvers.
Makes little sense to me.
vicious_cb
06-26-18, 21:31
More power points about sexual harassment. ;)
More power points about sexual harassment. ;)
If we have to be depressingly realistic, yes, it's probably a bigger part of that extra time than they want to admit...
Averageman
06-26-18, 22:18
What does all this say about small unit leadership and training at squad, platoon and company level?
SeriousStudent
06-26-18, 23:16
What does all this say about small unit leadership and training at squad, platoon and company level?
I do think that is an excellent question. As a former squad leader, I viewed that as a crucial part of my role - training and integrating the new guys with the rest of the herd.
More power points about sexual harassment. ;)
No more making fun of a private's private's and why it's ok if he wants to be a she. Now that "Bad" Brad Manning has completed his 35 year sentence he is available for a variety of themed seminars that will produce a more sensitive and caring professional soldier. "Why feelings are more important than national security" is extremely popular and might become a standard program at West Point.
Averageman
06-27-18, 00:08
Five months will increase the UCMJ numbers significantly.
That much time under close scrutiny and discipline is going to be interesting for millennials.
vicious_cb
06-27-18, 00:21
No more making fun of a private's private's and why it's ok if he wants to be a she. Now that "Bad" Brad Manning has completed his 35 year sentence he is available for a variety of themed seminars that will produce a more sensitive and caring professional soldier. "Why feelings are more important than national security" is extremely popular and might become a standard program at West Point.
Not as crazy as you think. Coming to an Army near you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxu6XSfxpWo
vicious_cb
06-27-18, 00:26
No, seriously joining the British Army is about expressing your emotions and having your voice heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylj_vhwnoBE
No, seriously joining the British Army is about expressing your emotions and having your voice heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylj_vhwnoBE
With the LGBT community on board the UK is going to see some amazing new camo patterns. The possibilities are almost limitless. I look forward to the exciting beret options.
Although I can appreciate this part;
The new OSUT program will include expanded weapons training, increased vehicle-platform familiarization, extensive combatives training and a 40-hour combat-lifesaver certification course, said Hedrick.
Further, the change will include increased time in the field during both day and night operations
This;
include an increased emphasis on drill and ceremony maneuvers.
Makes little sense to me.
It all makes sense to me. The new PVTs comic into units right now are barely able to Army.
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Averageman
06-27-18, 11:27
New Soldiers are a blank slate.
You integrate them in to the Crew/ Squad/Platoon with some care, respect and keep a short leash on them.
If they associate with your hard chargers and go getters you're fine, but twenty minutes with a career slacker E-5 can ruin one.
More time in OSUT may on paper be a solution, but in reality it's about Leadership when they get to their units.
I remember asking an E-7 about Calling for Artillery Support. He was kind of a dick about me asking him and offered no help, to the point of not even directing me to the appropriate manual.
Come to find out the SOB couldn't do it himself.
So after teaching myself and confirming what I learned on the local Call for Fire trainer, I didn't forget that later when I became an NCO.
Come to find out, there was everything and more available in the gunners seat in the Abrams Tank that allows you to call for and adjust fire that never made it on paper.
Not as crazy as you think. Coming to an Army near you.
I don't agree with the focus on recruiting LGBT, but all I saw in the video you linked was a group of soldiers covering/pausing while a comrade stopped to pray IAW his religion. To me the message was, if you measure up, you'll be accepted.
I've been in the service with a whole bunch of people who had lifestyles and beliefs I didn't agree with, the make or break, though, is whether they did the job.
Were your experiences that much different?
OSUT was how I trained as a cannon crewman at Ft. Sill. It's basic and AIT combined. In our case, only 12 weeks, because you can teach any primate how to be an artilleryman. So 8 weeks of basic and 4 of AIT. OSUT also means you have the same drill sergeants the whole time which means it feels like basic training the whole time and you feel screwed compared to the guys in separate AIT who get all sorts of privileges OSUT soldiers don't.
Like others have mentioned, the real training and job experience is gained at the unit level, so how much more effective the grunts will be after extending their initial training is in question. I can see more crew served training and vehicle training as a big positive but in real world terms, the way the Army works with training, they will be checking the boxes and cycling the joes through as quickly as possible.
I don't agree with the focus on recruiting LGBT, but all I saw in the video you linked was a group of soldiers covering/pausing while a comrade stopped to pray IAW his religion. To me the message was, if you measure up, you'll be accepted.
I've been in the service with a whole bunch of people who had lifestyles and beliefs I didn't agree with, the make or break, though, is whether they did the job.
Were your experiences that much different?
Yeah, as much as I'm not a fan of the ROP and I think individuals such as Nasan being promoted to Major and put in charge of the mental well being of our returning vets was bordering criminal negligence, I have zero problem with anyone who is fully vetted and sincerely wishes to serve.
I don't care of somebody is a scientologist, if they do their job and when the shooting starts they are still shooting at the bad guys, they can believe whatever they want about the destination of their eternal soul and how to get there.
I don't agree with the focus on recruiting LGBT, but all I saw in the video you linked was a group of soldiers covering/pausing while a comrade stopped to pray IAW his religion. To me the message was, if you measure up, you'll be accepted.
I've been in the service with a whole bunch of people who had lifestyles and beliefs I didn't agree with, the make or break, though, is whether they did the job.
Were your experiences that much different?
Okay, having been in the military yourself is it really practical to "pause and cover" while someone prays in a tactical situation? Maybe it was for the video but seriously? Sorry, but if you're making a movement to contact it is absurd to stop and allow someone to throw out a prayer rug and face Mecca (or clutch Rosary beads and recite Hail Mary's).
I am just throwing this out there but does anyone think that just perhaps this is a tool to weed out females even more than the standard 14-week program might? Just a thought.....
Infantry is the door you will go through for Ranger Batt (except for maybe FO's or medics) and most of SF.
Averageman
06-27-18, 18:51
Okay, having been in the military yourself is it really practical to "pause and cover" while someone prays in a tactical situation? Maybe it was for the video but seriously? Sorry, but if you're making a movement to contact it is absurd to stop and allow someone to throw out a prayer rug and face Mecca (or clutch Rosary beads and recite Hail Mary's).
Ask those Tank Crewmen if the Tank stopped so they could dismount and drop a deuce?
Okay, having been in the military yourself is it really practical to "pause and cover" while someone prays in a tactical situation? Maybe it was for the video but seriously? Sorry, but if you're making a movement to contact it is absurd to stop and allow someone to throw out a prayer rug and face Mecca (or clutch Rosary beads and recite Hail Mary's).
I actually thought of that when I wrote my response. I doubt we are that PC.
Although, I know when I was writing OPORDS for JAAT-T missions, I always set the the last navigation check point so we would be heading towards Mecca, and the turn onto drop heading so we would be heading towards 31° 46' 25.79" N 35° 13' 27.60" E. I doesn't take much effort to be considerate of others. Made for some fun DZ's, though.
:jester:
RetroRevolver77
06-29-18, 02:46
Probably better off going longer given the technology they have today.
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