View Full Version : Sicario; day of the soldado Review
Averageman
06-29-18, 12:58
Totally worth the time and money to go see.
Good acting, great action, you will enjoy it. Very dark morality play about what happens to loyalties once you cross the line.
Totally worth the time and money to go see.
Good acting, great action, you will enjoy it. Very dark morality play about what happens to loyalties once you cross the line.
I know the plots are different, and we don't have the weak (written the way) FBI agent, but try to compare it to the original. I will still see it regardless, but am curious.
The first Sicario really blew me away when i first saw it as it really stood out in the genre. I had a similar reaction to it as I did when I first saw Heat. Now that we know the 2 main players I doubt I will have the same reaction. But I don't mean to imply that is what it needs to be a good movie for me.
Averageman
06-29-18, 13:46
Compared to the original.
The story in the original is a little tighter, the FBI Agent doesn't understand that they are using her, the deal for her was they just needed a badge in order to plausibly deny some cross border killings.
The second movie; a plot hatched due to some terror inside CONUS. The highest levels of the .gov give Josh Brolin all the money he needs to operate and take him off his leash. The assumption is the Cartels are now in to terror.
There is some deep morality stuff going on toward the end that is very interesting.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-29-18, 16:08
I will be seeing it this weekend. If it's as good as the trailer I will be happy.
I want to see it, maybe the end of the weekend.
It was good but I think the original was better.
This was more gunfights and some politics.
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donlapalma
06-29-18, 23:58
I literally just walked out of this movie tonight, but not because it was a bad movie. About 15 minutes into it, 9 kids all under the age of 12 came bursting into the theatre laughing, talking, using their cell phones, etc. They sat in the front and disrupted the whole theatre for about 10 minutes. People left to complain and a theatre employee came in which quieted the kids down for a minute, but soon after they all just got up and walked out making a ruckus on the way out. By this point, I've missed key plot points and can no longer follow the movie. I left and got my money back. Management took care of me so I'll go back later in the weekend on their dime.
Totally frustrating.
Furbyballer
06-30-18, 06:13
I Really liked it. Especially the interesting morality and loyalty areas it explored. Think very much like tom clancys clear and present danger in a modern setting. I think the first one still had a more profound effect on me. Its definitely set up for a third movie which i am excited for.
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I literally just walked out of this movie tonight, but not because it was a bad movie. About 15 minutes into it, 9 kids all under the age of 12 came bursting into the theatre laughing, talking, using their cell phones, etc. They sat in the front and disrupted the whole theatre for about 10 minutes. People left to complain and a theatre employee came in which quieted the kids down for a minute, but soon after they all just got up and walked out making a ruckus on the way out. By this point, I've missed key plot points and can no longer follow the movie. I left and got my money back. Management took care of me so I'll go back later in the weekend on their dime. Totally frustrating.
This is why I only watch DVD's in the comfort of my own home. Large screen TV and a good sound system - way better that a movie theater, YMMV.
Averageman
06-30-18, 11:44
I saw the movie at 10:00 am yesterday.
I'm seated center/center in the theatre and some huge, sloppy, fat guy comes with a tray of snack crap, sits at my elbot and asks me to move my tray.
So, yeah, going anywhere in public isn't much fun anymore.
Six people in the place and this guy wants to sit next to me?
WTF?
A roundup of the weaponry used in the film:
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Sicario_2:_Day_of_the_Soldado
I literally just walked out of this movie tonight, but not because it was a bad movie. About 15 minutes into it, 9 kids all under the age of 12 came bursting into the theatre laughing, talking, using their cell phones, etc. They sat in the front and disrupted the whole theatre for about 10 minutes. People left to complain and a theatre employee came in which quieted the kids down for a minute, but soon after they all just got up and walked out making a ruckus on the way out. By this point, I've missed key plot points and can no longer follow the movie. I left and got my money back. Management took care of me so I'll go back later in the weekend on their dime.
Totally frustrating.
I'm up in Flagstaff. The theatre is usually pretty quiet and (if you go to an early show) fairly empty.
Whiskey_Bravo
07-01-18, 16:20
Just got back from seeing it. It was good with some good action but I wasn't impressed. It could have so much better. The plot seemed rushed and I didn't like the endjjng all that much.
I'm seated center/center in the theatre and some huge, sloppy, fat guy comes with a tray of snack crap, sits at my elbot and asks me to move my tray.
Six people in the place and this guy wants to sit next to me?
WTF?
Bromance? LOL
donlapalma
07-01-18, 18:28
So I got back out to the see the movie. I definitely liked it. Worth the trip, but ranks behind the original in my opinion. Many thoughts about the movie still lingering in my head which is a sign that I liked the movie enough to warrant a second viewing. Whether that happens in the theatre again is to be determined.
This was more gunfights and some politics.
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Gunfights good. Politics bad.
Averageman
07-01-18, 20:06
Gunfights good. Politics bad.
In retrospect, I think the first movie was about how brutal, corrupt and violent the war on drugs had become.
The female FBI Agent wanted to play by the rules, but in the end of the movie it was clear "This is the land of wolves now."
She became a part of the problem rather than the solution.
The second movie was more about morality and loyalty.
In the end, everyone touched by the situation becomes somehow infected.
You can keep no morality on these situations, even when you do what is right, it kills you.
All loyalty is always bargainable even to those who you are closest to.
The complete hopelessness of the situation kills all humanity.
LMT Shooter
07-01-18, 23:20
SPOILER ALERT!!!!
Save your money.
It started off really well, I liked it up to the ending, which was a let-down. How the hell did Alejandro know who shot him? Alejandro was hooded, he couldn't have seen shit. The Alejandro from the first movie would have had no problem killing the girl, he nearly killed Kate at the end. Little or no explanation for his moral quandary was presented in the sequel.
sundance435
07-02-18, 16:29
SPOILER ALERT!!!!
Save your money.
It started off really well, I liked it up to the ending, which was a let-down. How the hell did Alejandro know who shot him? Alejandro was hooded, he couldn't have seen shit. The Alejandro from the first movie would have had no problem killing the girl, he nearly killed Kate at the end. Little or no explanation for his moral quandary was presented in the sequel.
Agreed. The ending was terrible - not just bad, in my opinion, but terrible considering the Alejandro character. It was like they had the first 100 minutes of the movie in the can and then realized they had to end it - SPOILER ALERT!!! - so that puke kid is going to be the face of "Sicario 3"?
LMT Shooter
07-02-18, 17:15
That kid, I just don't see a character with that type of origin transforming into a protagonist I want to watch in this film genre. If the kid had made the choice to not shoot Alejandro, then OK, I can see him as a protagonist later on that I'd enjoy watching. Obviously the crowd that's really into comic book characters will likely disagree, since this kind of villain into hero thing is common there. I enjoyed Deadpool & Suicide Squad, but that's not the same film genre as Sicario, to me. YMMV.
And the spoiled little "narco-whore" character would not be a likely success in witness protection. Nor would the powers that be in the film be likely to go along with that idea. Bad ending all around.
That said, I'd watch it again, but I won't pay to see it again in a theater. I watch almost every movie I see more than once. I see a lot, after knowing how it ends, that I missed the first time.
SPOILER ALERT!!!!
Save your money.
It started off really well, I liked it up to the ending, which was a let-down. How the hell did Alejandro know who shot him? Alejandro was hooded, he couldn't have seen shit. The Alejandro from the first movie would have had no problem killing the girl, he nearly killed Kate at the end. Little or no explanation for his moral quandary was presented in the sequel.
Negative Ghostrider. He wasn’t going to kill her in the first movie, he knew she would sign with some leverage. She reminded him of his little girl (or his wife IDR). I haven’t seen 2 (will tomorrow) but I foresaw how he would want to protect ‘the little girl’ from the trailer. It’s all about making Sicario 3 probably.
Averageman
07-03-18, 18:59
I thought Kate was a "spoiler" in the first movie, everything she did was counter to the mission.
But I thought her partner was a spy too, that dude was always poking around.
MountainRaven
07-03-18, 19:27
I thought Kate was a "spoiler" in the first movie, everything she did was counter to the mission.
But I thought her partner was a spy too, that dude was always poking around.
I would be really worried if someone working for the Federal Bureau of Investigation wasn't curious and didn't go digging into things that they thought were wrong or illegal.
LMT Shooter
07-03-18, 22:12
Negative Ghostrider. He wasn’t going to kill her in the first movie, he knew she would sign with some leverage. She reminded him of his little girl (or his wife IDR). I haven’t seen 2 (will tomorrow) but I foresaw how he would want to protect ‘the little girl’ from the trailer. It’s all about making Sicario 3 probably.
I disagree. He was prepared to kill Kate, he knew the consequences of letting her talk would suck for him, and he wasn't taking that risk. A major point of Sicario was how most regular folks will do what they are pressured to do, but Alejandro did not know she'd sign, & he was prepared to kill her, just as he killed whomever he felt he "ought" to kill, like Silvio, and Alejandro didn't have to kill Silvio once he had accomplished his mission. The mission was accomplished, as far as Silvio was involved, but Alejandro had to tie up the loose ends. Also, I think that most well-trained/experienced professionals won't threaten a use of force that wouldn't be allowed/justified, and for good reason. WHEN (not IF) your bluff gets called, either you look like a jackass because you broke the rules, or you look like a jackass because you won't do what you threatened to do. Alejandro in Sicario would not have looked like a jackass, but he would've broken the rules. He killed those 2 boys & their mother, why not a 16yo narco-whore?
But hey, it's just a movie, I don't really care, it's just a movie with a bad ending.
Averageman
07-04-18, 00:03
Everyone interprets the meanings of books and movies differently, but I felt like I should expound on this a bit.
All of these people were using each other and each for different reasons. There were some loose loyalties but everyone had their own motivations.
The CIA/Graver needed the Delta guys for Muscle.
The CIA/Graver needed the FBI/ Kate to operate inside the United States.
The CIA/Graver needed Alejandro because Alejandro wouldn't hesitate to kill these guys on either side of the border and Alejandro provided cover for the CIA. Essentially they could always claim their Adviser Alejandro went off the rails and murdered.
*I think Graver overestimated Kate's commitment to the mission. After seeing a couple dozen bodies behind the drywall and two Officers die from a booby trap, maybe he thought "Well, She's on Our Side Now".
I could be wrong, but I don't believe Kate ever really witnesses any rules being broken by Graver and his crew, severely bent, but not broken until the last scenes.
If anyone is a tragic figure in all of this it is Alejandro. The guy has lost his Wife and Child, his career as a Prosecutor and any hope of a normal life after all of that was done to them. From that point on his only motivation was to kill those responsible.
Although Silvio was not one of the murderers, he was an integral part of the machine that allowed these things to take place. Without the corruption, Alejandro's family wouldn't have died, he could have prosecuted and won cases that would have put these Cartel members away forever.
I think Silvio sealed his fate inside the cruiser when he asked that Alejandro not kill him because he had a son. That probably made Alejandro sure he needed to die, here is a man who's action cause the death of so many people, but when under pressure, he whines like a bitch.
Once Alejandro kills Diaz and his family, what is he left with? His revenge it seems is complete. Is he of any use again to the CIA and Graver? How does he extract back to the US?
The really unique thing in this is that we never see any particular loyalty from Graver to Alejandro until the second movie and without Alejandro the team might have been hurt in that ambush on the bridge, Alejandro was the key to observing what was happening and breaking the attempted ambush.
Kate wanted to play by the rules, but the situation and the rules had changed. When she and Reggie went to her boss, he as much as told them they had and to shut up and play by the new rules.
Also remember that tunnel goes from the United States to Mexico. Anything being done inside that tunnel by Graver and the Delta Team right up and until they crossed in to Mexico was good to go.
The you come to the point where you cross the border, or cross that line.
Alejandro crossed the line for revenge, but legally he could, he wan't bound by the same rules as Kate. Once Kate crossed the line, She no longer had the legal authority to do so, or to stop Alejandro.
Once again, Kate wanted to play but the rules, but did she really?
You see a couple of dozen dead bodies behind some dry wall, you see some partners get an IED and you still don"t get it? To emphasize this, her partner introduces her to a Cop that she saw at a baseball game and he decides to choke her to death while they are having sex, hmmm, so the rules haven't changed for Kate yet?
Speaking of her partner, that's a shady guy. Always on the edge of the conversation and listening in, not chosen by Graver to work with the team, and introduces Kate to Ted who is a corrupt Cop (Did Graver perhaps have an idea he was?) who nearly kills her.
Alejandro didn't kill Kate because he couldn't, just like Kate had the chance, but couldn't kill Alejandro.
Alejandro is a tragic dude, well right up until the last of the Second movie, anyway.
Negative Ghostrider. He wasn’t going to kill her in the first movie, he knew she would sign with some leverage. She reminded him of his little girl (or his wife IDR). I haven’t seen 2 (will tomorrow) but I foresaw how he would want to protect ‘the little girl’ from the trailer. It’s all about making Sicario 3 probably.
SPOILERS
And I called it. It’s some cobbled together story to make S3.
Katherine Keener (so?) is terrible and her role in The Shadow Government is not believable.
Too much dialogue altogether, and not enough moody music or beautiful cinematography of S1.
Totally unbelievable linkage throughout the story for the young cousin turned mule future sicario assistant.
Totally complicated story, the first Alejandro was more silent and distant. This one he’s conversational.
When did the fat lawyer get out of the armored Brabus Merc?
I thought vengeance was served at the end of S1, then apparently killing the fat lawyer gave vengeance. No! Now there’s the head of the cartel yet?
And ‘the CIA made him’, which was both backstory and foreshadowing because now it’s Alejandro versus Matt & Steve in S3 (plus also versus the cartel boss [‘big boss’ right]).
Or because Matt puts her into Witness Protection does Alejandro just focus on the cartel?
And why the f did they have a large scale black op warehouse ‘gearing up scene’ with the girl looking out through Levolor blinds so she could ‘know everything’.
Sure, of course I’ll watch S3.
fun watch about the prev one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omkf9s80gIQ
I saw the movie last night and and left there thinking where is the grand finale? It's like the whole movie teetered on getting to a big ending that never happened. At the very end when Del Toro said to the kid "Let's talk about your future" what popped into my mind was that this whole movie was laying down the ground work for the next sequel. Overall I was disappointed.
Whiskey_Bravo
07-09-18, 07:40
I saw the movie last night and and left there thinking where is the grand finale? It's like the whole movie teetered on getting to a big ending that never happened. At the very end when Del Toro said to the kid "Let's talk about your future" what popped into my mind was that this whole movie was laying down the ground work for the next sequel. Overall I was disappointed.
my thoughts exactly.
Doc Safari
08-17-18, 10:28
SPOILER
I saw it last night at the cheapo theater. I agree it was fine until the ending. He gets shot through the cheek without even losing any teeth? And the other bad guys didn't notice where the wound was? I'd think real thugs would have said, "Not good enough, kid. Let him have another one."
And the deaf couple living in the middle of nowhere? That's likely to happen.
Glad I didn't pay full price to see it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-17-18, 10:41
When will this be out on itunes or something?
When will this be out on itunes or something?
October 2018, no day set yet, as per NetFlix.
SPOILER
I saw it last night at the cheapo theater. I agree it was fine until the ending. He gets shot through the cheek without even losing any teeth? And the other bad guys didn't notice where the wound was? I'd think real thugs would have said, "Not good enough, kid. Let him have another one."
And the deaf couple living in the middle of nowhere? That's likely to happen.
Glad I didn't pay full price to see it.Had that happen here about 30 years ago. A armored car guard got ambushed in a mall corridor. Took a 38 fmj from a snub nose to the mouth/cheek area. No teeth lost, not much blood and dead before he hit the floor.
If you live in the middle of nowhere what's the difference if you're deaf or not?
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Doc Safari
08-17-18, 13:13
If you live in the middle of nowhere what's the difference if you're deaf or not?
It just seemed like an unlikely set of characters, sort of like running into two survivors of the Titanic living in the desert.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-29-18, 01:10
Thought it was OK.
SPoliers
When the lady told Thanos to kill DelToro and the girl to tie up loose ends and wipe it clean, I think he should have told her that if whacks her, it wipes things clean too.
Dreamy Steve is still dreamy, and lucky.
Wife and I were disappointed about the end. Is DelToro going rouge? Starting his own cartel?
I thought the kid was getting out of the lifestyle?
MountainRaven
10-05-18, 23:23
Am I the only one who finds the movie's initial premise (cartels smuggling Islamic terrorists into the US and the US responding by basically going Operation: Wrath of God on them) to be eerily similar to Tom Clancy's The Teeth of the Tiger?
ETA: I thought it was a pretty good movie. A bit weak compared to the first one (perhaps because I knew what I was in for in the second and wasn't entirely sure on the first), but still pretty good.
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