USAF war zone crews to get modified M4

[platoonDaddy]

I want one or two.



Gibson also said that the Air Force had officially designated the gun as the GAU-5/A, but the service already applied this designation during the Vietnam War-era to a variant of the original M16 rifle. This gun had a 10-inch barrel, which is shorter than present-day M4 with its 14.5-inch long barrel. There was also a GAU-5A/A with an 11.5-inch barrel. The Air Force primarily issued these guns to security personnel guarding planes and facilities on the ground.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21867/usaf-fighter-and-bomber-crews-get-modified-m4-rifles-that-fit-under-ejection-seats

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I would prefer a Colt commando with A1 upper and fixed FSB and just store it divided into upper and lower but maybe that wouldn’t fit.

[26 Inf]

Have at it: http://www.cryhavoctac.com/qrb-kit.html

Here is the lo-pro case for it: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?196038-What-have-you-done-to-your-AR(s)-today/page66 Post #655 by Crow Command

[TexasAggie2005]

Not sure if the Commando upper can fit in the space requirement;


The GAU-5A ASDW’s are being converted and assembled at the USAF Gunsmith Shop, at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. The Air Force confirmed that 2,137 ASDWs will be fielded with all combat coded A-10, B-1, B-2, B-52, F-15C, F-15E, F-16, and F-22 units. It will be stowed aboard aircraft in a compact kit including 4 magazines (120 rounds) and must all fit in the standard ejection seat survival kit. The kit measures 16″x14″x3.5″. (http://https://www.overtdefense.com/2018/06/25/usafs-new-gau-5a-aircrew-self-defense-weapon/)

[usmcvet]

This is great. I’d rather our pilots have an M4 and 4 thirty round magazines instead of just a pistol.


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[Circle_10]

I'm being a nitpicky dork but I'm curious why this this uses the "GAU" designation instead of "GUU".

The gun pictured in the article *looks* like it has an A1 lower receiver, like a lot of the USAF GAU-5s and later the GUU-5/Ps (When the GAUs were fitted with 1/7 barrels or uppers they became known as GUUs apparently) so it implies that at least some of these new aircrew survival weapons they are just getting new uppers as opposed to being whole new guns. (Although the gun pictured has a"1" on it and might just be a prototype thrown together using an A1 lower). Either way, I wonder why it's not considered an evolution of the 1/7 twist GUU-5/P instead of the older 1/12 GAU series.
But again, I'm mostly just being a dork here.

[lysander]

I'm being a nitpicky dork but I'm curious why this this uses the "GAU" designation instead of "GUU".

The gun pictured in the article *looks* like it has an A1 lower receiver, like a lot of the USAF GAU-5s and later the GUU-5/Ps (When the GAUs were fitted with 1/7 barrels or uppers they became known as GUUs apparently) so it implies that at least some of these new aircrew survival weapons they are just getting new uppers as opposed to being whole new guns. (Although the gun pictured has a"1" on it and might just be a prototype thrown together using an A1 lower). Either way, I wonder why it's not considered an evolution of the 1/7 twist GUU-5/P instead of the older 1/12 GAU series.
But again, I'm mostly just being a dork here.
GUU is for personal armament.

GAU is for aircraft armament.

The new GAU-5 technically is part of the aircraft; part of the ejection seat survival pack...

The old GAU-5 designation was made before the Air Force had personal armament that wasn't Army type classified.

[HCM]

Not sure if the Commando upper can fit in the space requirement;



Correct. An MK 18 brown down as upper / Lower dies not fit.

[HCM]

.So it's 0.3" shorter than the tested Crane MK18? Why not just field that?

Because it doesn’t fit under the ejection seat. It’s not about the Overall Lemgth. By using a QD barrel vs upper / Lower they get it to fit into the space available.

[RHINOWSO]

Because it doesn’t fit under the ejection seat. It’s not about the Overall Lemgth. By using a QD barrel vs upper / Lower they get it to fit into the space available.

Yeah, the fact that it has to fit in a very small space is lost on some.

Glad to see this development - odds of it seeing actual use are low, but better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. ;)

[Jonnyt16]

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21867/usaf-fighter-and-bomber-crews-get-modified-m4-rifles-that-fit-under-ejection-seats
Interesting article. The quick note on the Bushmaster Arm Pistol was amusing as well. Goofy thing for sure. Makes sense now though...I do remember seeing it on their older logos but not sure if I ever knew (until now) exactly what it was.

https://laststandonzombieisland.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/bushmaster-arm-gun-logo.jpg

[Circle_10]

GUU is for personal armament.

GAU is for aircraft armament.

The new GAU-5 technically is part of the aircraft; part of the ejection seat survival pack...

The old GAU-5 designation was made before the Air Force had personal armament that wasn't Army type classified.

*Facepalm*

I'm ashamed that didn't occur to me on my own.

[Midwest Industries]

We are very proud to be envolved with this project. :cool:

[SeriousStudent]

We are very proud to be envolved with this project. :cool:

Schweet!

I have an AR pistol with a LAW Tactical folding stock adapter, and a 11.5" BCM barrel. These items could make it an even more compact and versatile package.

I'll be in touch with you gents. :)

[Beat Trash]

Does anyone have any first hand experience with the Cry Havoc Tactic QRB? I'd be interested in hearing first hand comments on how durable/reliable the system is. How easy/hard is it for those forward facing levers to accidentally get knocked loose?

I think the concept has merit. Put one of these on an AR pistol and you would have an extremely compact package that you could stash just about anywhere.

[vicious_cb]

Considering its use it really only needs to last and be reliable for 4 mags worth of ammo. Beyond that you're either rescued or killed/captured.

[Tortuga]

Interesting concept, hopefully they develop the TTP's and the reoccurring training to back it up.

[SeriousStudent]

Sweet baby Harambe, a folding knife??

That will work great when batoning firewood....oh wait, it won't. Sigh.

[HackerF15E]

And don't even get me started about carrying a pistol in a cross draw holster and NEVER training or qualifying in that configuration.


Come on...a downed aircrewman in a survival situation isn't going to be in a situation where the second or so gained in the gross motor skill of having practiced drawing from the holster in the survival vest is going to make a difference. All that gear is about being able to simply *have* the equipment following an ejection...not the presentation of it for use in some fighting scenario.


And as much as I like the idea of better arming our aircrew, without the continuing training to go with a weapon, it's a waste of resources and space.

We are talking about giving guys a fighting chance to avoid starring in their own internet beheading/murder video, not taking part in a raid on foot. Anything more capable than an M9 makes a difference.

FWIW, in the units that I'm familiar with, they moved some of the equipment out of the seat pack and on to the survival vest itself to make room for the M4 (which was the initial iteration of this project -- an M4 that was essentially chopped off at the FSB).

[arptsprt]

Exactly... Thank you.

Just ask the Jordanian pilot that was captured and burned alive in a cage a few weeks later by ISIS.


Come on...a downed aircrewman in a survival situation isn't going to be in a situation where the second or so gained in the gross motor skill of having practiced drawing from the holster in the survival vest is going to make a difference. All that gear is about being able to simply *have* the equipment following an ejection...not the presentation of it for use in some fighting scenario.

We are talking about giving guys a fighting chance to avoid starring in their own internet beheading/murder video, not taking part in a raid on foot. Anything more capable than an M9 makes a difference.




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[jackblack73]

If I was downed in enemy territory I’d take a rifle with zero additional weapons handling training over a pistol with training any day.

[RHINOWSO]

So what is being deleted from the seat pan to make room for a PDW? It's not like there's any spare room in those things.
Agreed, but other than a raft and Emergency O2, I really don't remember what was in it. Which means they can likely make room IMO.


And as much as I like the idea of better arming our aircrew, without the continuing training to go with a weapon, it's a waste of resources and space. Also agreed - not sure what the USAF training program was, but in the Navy it was just the standard pistol qual course with the M11s, plus some extra ammo at th end if the AOs had it on hand. Every squadron / deployment has at least one ND on the ship, plus at least 1/2 the aircrew aren't really 'gun people' in the first place.


And as much as I like the idea of better arming our aircrew, without the continuing training to go with a weapon, it's a waste of resources and I fought with the Navy life support program office about them wanting to issue combat oriented knives vice survival knives for years. Now it seems they would rather issue folders than a fixed blade. :fie:Yeah, my last issued one was a folder with the tip clipped off. Of course I carried my own knife.


And don't even get me started about carrying a pistol in a cross draw holster and NEVER training or qualifying in that configuration. I wasn't overly concerned, as the primary intent for a holster / lanyard in Navy TacAir was retention throughout the ejection / parachute sequence. After that I'd likely have the pistol out at all times I could.


Sorry for the rant, y'all. Blame it on years of being the middle guy between the combatant commanders, good ideas fairies and the end users.
BTDT, got the T-shirt my friend. In the end warriors take matters into their own hands. I carried mostly my own first aid gear, combat knife, and extra magazines & ammo (I liked the SIG M11 and owned one to train with in my own time).

I would have taken a shorty AR in my seat pan any day flying over OEF / OIF / HOA, where the key was save the last round for yourself to avoid rape, torture, and video decapitation. But out of my last squadron of 30+, maybe 20% could have used one effectively (myself and 3 fellow gun nuts, plus a former 82nd guy).

[Vandal]

I was speaking to a buddy of mine who flies BUFFs about this today, they have the rifles on base and are working on getting them integrated. They removed the cold weather gear to make room for the rifle and mags. He would much rather have the rifle in his seat kit than the cold weather gear.

[arptsprt]

Seriously? Wow. That’s an eye opener to me. I guess I take for granted I’ve been around guns and shooting since as far back as I can remember.

I’m shocked that someone who went though all that training to fly a jet would be so incompetent when it comes to shoot a little carbine. Thanks for the perspective.


But out of my last squadron of 30+, maybe 20% could have used one effectively (myself and 3 fellow gun nuts, plus a former 82nd guy).




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[lysander]

I was speaking to a buddy of mine who flies BUFFs about this today, they have the rifles on base and are working on getting them integrated. They removed the cold weather gear to make room for the rifle and mags. He would much rather have the rifle in his seat kit than the cold weather gear.

That really all would depend on where you are most likely to run into trouble Five got out, two died of exposure. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Savage_Mountain_B-52_crash) In some parts of Afghanistan, the midwinter temps get down to 15 degrees F. The kit should be tailored to the mission environment.

[DarkTemplars]

I'm sure the ground personnel would rather carry those around on base when in country also.

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[ralfabco]

I will wait for Space Command's side arm/PDW/Cricket.