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26 Inf
06-30-18, 17:22
This pretty much served as a good explanation to my kids why I'm not in favor of the tariffs President Trump has imposed.

Another article I read recently sums it up nicely:

It is difficult if not impossible to change anyone's mind when people's positions on an issue are grounded in political identity. Trade policy is threatening to turn into the same quagmire as immigration policy. The aggrieved voices of the few will outweigh the preferences of the many, and most of us will be poorer as a result.

In response to Trump's tariffs, European Union President Jean-Claude Juncker summed up the state of transatlantic trade relations: "So now we will also impose import tariffs. This is basically a stupid process, the fact that we have to do this. But we have to do it.…We also have to be this stupid."


Protectionism vs. Cheap Beer

If you tax something, you get less of it, and Trump's tariffs are a tax on making things—including cans, kegs, and the beer that goes into them.

Eric Boehm from the June 2018 issue of Reason

Located on the outskirts of Philadelphia, American Keg is the type of small, blue-collar manufacturing business that might earn praise from President Donald Trump. It's the only remaining American manufacturer of stainless steel beer kegs, and CEO Paul Czachor is proud to use only American-made steel.

But American Keg is in jeopardy of going out of business, and the culprit is none other than Trump himself. The president's 25 percent tariff on steel and 10 percent tariff on aluminum apply only to imported metal, but they will increase the price of domestic products too, because, well, that's what tariffs do.

Although they've been blunted by the White House's decision to exempt imports from Canada, Mexico, and a few other major American trading partners, the tariffs are bad news for beer drinkers, who are likely to pay more for their favorite brew, and for a wide range of companies that touch the beer industry. While the tariffs are meant to boost domestic steel and aluminum production, they will do so at the expense of the much larger set of American businesses that consume those commodities.

That's exactly what's happening at American Keg, where Czachor laid off about a third of his workers and raised the price of each keg by $5 in response to Trump's tariff announcement.

Even that may not be enough to keep the business afloat, however, because the tariffs are a double whammy in Czachor's case. Not only will they increase the cost of the steel needed to make his company's products, they will increase the cost of his company's products relative to foreign-made competitors, since the levy applies only to raw or unfinished steel (sheets or rolls, for example) and not to steel-made products, like kegs, that are imported into the United States. Czachor's business faces a 30 percent increase in costs, yet keg manufacturers in other countries will be able to make and sell their products to American breweries for pretty much the same price as today.

And just as higher prices for steel mean more expensive kegs, higher prices for aluminum mean more expensive cans. Beermakers have to pay for both, and those costs will end up getting passed along to consumers. "American workers and American consumers will suffer as a result of this misguided tariff," said Molson Coors, the Colorado-based brewery that's one of the biggest in the world. Jim McGreevey, president and CEO of the Beer Institute, a trade association, calls the move "a new $347.7 million tax on America's beverage industry" and warns that those added costs could trigger more than 20,000 in job losses up and down the industry's supply chain.

They likely won't be alone. The Trade Partnership projects that Trump's tariffs will wipe out 146,000 American jobs on net—five lost for every one gained. Even protectionist think tanks like the Coalition for a Prosperous America expect an overall decline in jobs as a result of the policy. The only point of disagreement seems to be how bad things will get.

Tariff apologists, such as Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, argue that the final cost to consumers will be minimal. That's true, to a point.

According to the Can Manufacturers Institute, a trade group, the 10 percent aluminum tariff will add about a penny and a half to the cost of each can of beer. As a result, a small microbrewery producing 10,000 barrels annually might face $25,000 in additional costs, against already small margins in a highly competitive market. Do you raise your prices and make an unknown product less attractive to consumers? Do you cut one job out of your operation? Do you scrap plans for expansion, because buying new brewing equipment (made of steel, of course) just got more expensive? These are difficult choices, ones that have suddenly been forced on thousands of businesses by the stroke of a presidential pen.

"It would be tough to justify a price increase of 24 cents per case," Adam Romanow, founder of the Massachusetts-based Castle Island Brewery, told the trade publication Brewbound. His company now pays about $130 for 1,000 cans but goes through more than 2 million cans every year. It's not a question of pennies at that scale.

"We don't make things anymore" is a common Trump complaint. It's not true—America makes lots of things. But if you tax something, you get less of it, and Trump's tariffs are a tax on making things—including cans, kegs, and the beer that goes into them.

fledge
06-30-18, 17:39
Not worried about it. It’s a short term strategy. I don’t mind paying more in the short term. The article above even shows they could raise rates for beer cans but don’t think they can justify it? The article tips it’s hand there.

And when the EU punishes their own economy with even larger tariffs against us, it shoots the argument in the foot. If EU believed free market meant better business they’d drop all tariffs and punish the USA. Their economy would boom and we would be forced to change. But the EU doesn’t believe it. They punish their own companies too, if this article is accurate. So why are they all retaliating with tariffs? It’s a political question while Trump is raising an economic one for global review (if anything Americans are wondering again why our own leadership tolerated poor practice all these years). Libertarian economists don’t want tariffs, including Trump. This is one way you get to a conversation with others refuse to talk.

_Stormin_
06-30-18, 17:44
From the company CEO's interview with NPR:
"CZACHOR: No, we're not 100 percent sure. We're excited - the fact that the administration is looking at, you know, how do we become more productive in the U.S.? How do we bring jobs back to the U.S.? How do we restart manufacturing in the U.S.? So we think it's some of the right steps forward, but we are very concerned that in the short term, it could drive up steel prices."

Me thinks that he sounds like he feels Trump is on the right path, and that Eric Boehm (the author) is taking a whole lot of liberty with American Keg's position on Trump and the tariffs.

Truth be told, I'll happily pay A CENT AND A HALF MORE if it aids domestic production. Hell, factor in margins for everyone along the line and charge me 5 cents more a can. We are a group that is constantly on board with paying for quality (head to any of the "My PovertyPony/PSA/Bushmaster is just as good as your BCM" threads and watch the flaming ensue) but somehow this is an issue to anyone?

I'm all for the free market, but I'm also all for trade being actual trade. When countries happily send goods our way but have limitations on our exports, I'm more than happy to mirror trade practices to level the playing field. It's a complicated world out there, but we can do our best to make it simple.

sgtrock82
06-30-18, 20:35
So this teeth gnashing is over what turns out to be roughly $0.24 per case....lol

Ok im sure that will really hobble the american beer drinker... guess we can only afford the smaller yeti coolers now.

Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

26 Inf
06-30-18, 22:07
It seems you are focusing on the beer aspect rather than this nugget -

The Trade Partnership projects that Trump's tariffs will wipe out 146,000 American jobs on net—five lost for every one gained. Even protectionist think tanks like the Coalition for a Prosperous America expect an overall decline in jobs as a result of the policy.

So, you are a domestic steel manufacturer, a tariff has reduced your foreign competition's advantage.

Do you -

1) let the market work it's magic and raise price to the point price equals demand

or

2) ignore the fact that the tariff may be only temporary and build new foundries and hire more workers to man those foundries in order to compete on price and grab more of the market.

I don't think the rust belt is coming back. Folks that make such decisions are well aware that at some point the tariffs will be rolled back, whether by the Trump Administration or by the administration after.

We've been here before:

Sixteen years ago, George W. Bush levied up to 30 percent tariffs on steel. These were in place for nine months before the administration complied with a WTO ruling to remove them. Reputable economic analyses, including from the U.S. International Trade Commission, concluded that the result was a net loss in output and jobs.

The tariffs succeeded in raising the domestic price of steel, since American producers were able to jack up their prices without fear of competition from cheaper imports.

This in turn hurt the competitiveness of America's steel-using industries, which employ roughly 40 times as many workers as domestic steelmakers. Approximately 200,000 jobs were destroyed, a figure that exceeded the total number of steelworkers in the entire country.

Fast-forward to today, and the numbers tell the same story. The Trade Partnership, an economic consulting firm, estimates that the Trump tariffs will create about 33,000 jobs in the steel sector—and will destroy roughly 180,000 other jobs, including more than 36,000 in manufacturing.

The Council on Foreign Relations estimates that 40,000 automaking jobs will disappear because of higher input prices. In some industries, the layoffs have already started.

The University of Chicago asked its expert panel of 43 economists whether the tariffs would improve America's welfare. Not a single one agreed.

https://reason.com/archives/2018/04/30/the-economic-case-for-free-tra

MegademiC
06-30-18, 22:57
As stated, its a short term strategy. Its a negotiating tool.
If its meant as a long term thing, then Trump is an idiot.
Dollars to pesos its short term.

tb-av
07-01-18, 01:36
As stated, its a short term strategy. Its a negotiating tool.
If its meant as a long term thing, then Trump is an idiot.
Dollars to pesos its short term.

I agree... I just hope he knows what he is doing on this one. He has a quirky way about him that facilitates 180deg changes. I hope this goes well. What worries me is that it looks like a bluff. Then again, it's not like he hasn't been down that road before. He is our first "one liner" POTUS. Five minutes in and you forget what he rolled out with.

tb-av
07-01-18, 01:47
"It would be tough to justify a price increase of 24 cents per case," Adam Romanow, founder of the Massachusetts-based Castle Island Brewery, told the trade publication Brewbound. His company now pays about $130 for 1,000 cans but goes through more than 2 million cans every year. It's not a question of pennies at that scale.

Someone will develop a cheaper container. ... and probably already has.

Averageman
07-01-18, 08:07
So we don't need to be able to produce our own Steel and Aluminium?
I'm all for free trade, but you also need National Security.
I'm not sure why when many nations we ship our goods to, places a tariff on them, why do they not expect that same action in return?
Could this more accurately described as a move to pressure international markets to remove all tarrifs on all good?

_Stormin_
07-01-18, 08:55
As stated, its a short term strategy. Its a negotiating tool.


I'm all for the free market, but I'm also all for trade being actual trade. When countries happily send goods our way but have limitations on our exports, I'm more than happy to mirror trade practices to level the playing field. It's a complicated world out there, but we can do our best to make it simple.

See the above. The tariffs are a negotiating tool to bring countries to the table because they need our market for their exports and we need them to open up their markets to ours with lower restriction. Long term more trade (actual trade, not nation XYZ sends to us while accepting little in return as they protect their domestic markets) is better for the US. Do I think that we will become the worlds steel mill again? Absolutely not. The problem is that Reason magazine is entirely missing the point. The tariffs are not just to provide a competitive advantage to the domestic steel producers by raising the price of imported raw steel, but to lead to an end game of more open markets across all items internationally traded. Someone will "flinch" in the escalation of this and it won't be Donald Trump and the United States of America. Do they need our market more than we need their exports? (The answer is yes.) Reason can't see the forrest through the trees... You can't view this issue in a bubble of just being about steel/aluminum.

Business_Casual
07-01-18, 11:14
"So now we will also impose import tariffs.

LOL, in addition to the existing ones? Go buy a bottle Jack in Paris, it’s twice what it is here.

Averageman
07-01-18, 11:18
LOL, in addition to the existing ones? Go buy a bottle Jack in Paris, it’s twice what it is here.

Price it in Australia, you would think it's a car payment rather than a bottle of Whiskey.

Honu
07-01-18, 15:01
Price it in Australia, you would think it's a car payment rather than a bottle of Whiskey.

when my photo friends buy cameras in Australia and are paying 2x what we do here

khc3
07-01-18, 15:57
Life’s too short to drink cheap beer. Whatever tafiffs may cost, I wouldn’t even notice.

joeg26er
07-01-18, 16:50
I don't drink beer and I don't have a bump stock