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Planning on building a true 16” with pinned/welded muzzle devise. Looking for thoughts ideas on barrels.
Right now leaning toward Faxon 14.5” pencil with pinned/welded brake.
Any thoughts ideas would be great. Thanks
I bought a 16 inch pencil. Skinniest barrel I have ever seen. It shot horrible for the first couple hundred rounds but now it shoots 1.0-1.5 MOA after a heavy break in period. Be prepared to spend a few bucks breaking it in.
PB
I bought a 16 inch pencil. Skinniest barrel I have ever seen. It shot horrible for the first couple hundred rounds but now it shoots 1.0-1.5 MOA after a heavy break in period. Be prepared to spend a few bucks breaking it in.
PB
I would be shocked if that break in period had anything to do with the thickness of the barrel walls.
I think Faxon is an excellent choice. They offer a 14.5" barrel with either three prong or break, factory installed.
As a matter of fact, this is going to be my next barrel for my WWSD type built.
I have a Faxon Firearms 10.5" pencil barrel on my SBR built and it is easily a 1.5 MOA barrel. With Hornady America Gunner 55gr. HP bullet, it has turned in a few under that. This barrel has also turned in groups under 2" with Lake City M193.
Besides Faxon Firearms making an accurate barrel, their pencil weight is one of, if not the thinnest/lightest barrels out there. So, in my opinion it's the best of both worlds. Light and accurate.
elephantrider
07-04-18, 15:10
after a heavy break in period. Be prepared to spend a few bucks breaking it in.
Was that a Faxon, or a nitrided barrel? Was the 'heavy' break-in just more rounds down the barrel, or was it also additional cleaning?
my preference for the last 40 years has been pencils. and faxon pencils are fine.
No knock against Faxon. Have a BCM pencil barrel in 16". Great barrel. 1.5 moa. Chrome lined cut rifle average barrel but shoots well for what t is.
titsonritz
07-05-18, 01:33
I think Faxon is an excellent choice. They offer a 14.5" barrel with either three prong or break, factory installed.
It should be noted these factory installed pinned/welded muzzle devices are low profile and will allow installation and removal of a .625" gas block without removal of the MD. This will be the barrel I use for my next LW build.
The Bravo Company 14.5” ELW fluted barrel was my choice. It’s a great shooter, no break in needed.
The BCM barrel is 20 ounces, chrome bore
The Faxon barrel is 17.5 ounces, nitride bore
Both use a .625” gas block, the BCM barrel is about $80 more.
Thanks for the ideas and advice. Gotta do some more looking now.
titsonritz
07-05-18, 13:00
The Bravo Company 14.5” ELW fluted barrel was my choice. It’s a great shooter, no break in needed.
The BCM barrel is 20 ounces, chrome bore
The Faxon barrel is 17.5 ounces, nitride bore
Both use a .625” gas block, the BCM barrel is about $80 more.
These really are THE two barrels for a 14.5" LW build IMO. I had been set on BCM for a while but ultimately decided I'll give the Faxon a shot because I plan to do an ultra-light as in CavArms ultra-light and want to shave that extra 2.5 ounces, it would also be my first nitride barrel (which I've steered clear of intentionally up to this point and figure its time to checkout), the extra coin isn't a big for me as I am weak and will eventually end up with an ELW as well.
par-archer
07-05-18, 15:36
The shorter a pencil barrel is, would that help in accuracy?
These really are THE two barrels for a 14.5" LW build IMO. I had been set on BCM for a while but ultimately decided I'll give the Faxon a shot because I plan to do an ultra-light as in CavArms ultra-light and want to shave that extra 2.5 ounces, it would also be my first nitride barrel (which I've steered clear of intentionally up to this point and figure its time to checkout), the extra coin isn't a big for me as I am weak and will eventually end up with an ELW as well.
I’ll admit, the nitride steered me away from the Faxon barrel.
The shorter a pencil barrel is, would that help in accuracy?
A shorter barrel would be stiffer, correct?
That may add a degree to accuracy.
I’ll admit, the nitride steered me away from the Faxon barrel.
That has steered me away from ANY barrel that is nitrided/QPQ/Melonited. Sorry, I just ain't on board yet and may never be. Go chrome or go home.....YMMV.
Nocalsocal
07-05-18, 20:25
Why the apprehension towards nitride barrels? From what I've gathered a properly nitrided barrel is equivalent to a properly chrome lined one for the vast majority of shooters. Both have their positives and negatives. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I'm probably wrong here but it feels like the same tired arguments against the use of polymer in firearms.
PS. Sorry for continuing the thread derailment
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Chrome plated > nitride > bare bore
But then, I have many bare barrels, so . . .
vicious_cb
07-05-18, 22:24
Why the apprehension towards nitride barrels? From what I've gathered a properly nitrided barrel is equivalent to a properly chrome lined one for the vast majority of shooters. Both have their positives and negatives. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I'm probably wrong here but it feels like the same tired arguments against the use of polymer in firearms.
PS. Sorry for continuing the thread derailment
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
For those of us who actually kill barrels, chrome-lined offers superior wear resistance over nitride.
Nocalsocal
07-05-18, 23:26
For those of us who actually kill barrels, chrome-lined offers superior wear resistance over nitride.
No argument from me. I’m just jealous I can’t afford to continuously mag dump every time I pick up my carbine.
Also wouldn’t the differences only be seen at the extreme, high wear shooting schedules? And then wouldn’t a heavier profiled barrel be the more appropriate answer. It seems counterintuitive if you’re goal is increasing barrel life. So what’s the point of going skinny if you’re planning to go full auto with every trigger pull?
Again I agree that chrome lining is superior to nitride in terms of resistance. But only if you don’t have the option for semi automatic fire. Any engineers or technical guys want to elaborate? I’m not a expert by any means just regurgitating some answers from a YouTube Q&A from a former Faxon spokesperson.
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vicious_cb
07-06-18, 00:10
I also don't use lightweight barrels. I prefer intermediate weight barrels, basically the same weight as gov't profile but with the mass moved back towards the chamber, like the N4, hanson profile ect.
Anyway, if you really want to learn more about the subject I would look for the original Aberdeen Proving Ground documents in testing various treatments and plating on everything from small arms barrels to auto cannons to 120mm smooth bore tank guns. I would put more faith in those documents than manufactures claims that nitride is "just as good as". You dont see them thrown around in the usual chrome vs nitride because they are technical papers that are hard to interpret.
Why the apprehension towards nitride barrels? From what I've gathered a properly nitrided barrel is equivalent to a properly chrome lined one for the vast majority of shooters. Both have their positives and negatives. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I'm probably wrong here but it feels like the same tired arguments against the use of polymer in firearms.
PS. Sorry for continuing the thread derailment
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Long story short, the loosening of the barrel extension is what steers me away
I also don't use lightweight barrels. I prefer intermediate weight barrels, basically the same weight as gov't profile but with the mass moved back towards the chamber, like the N4, hanson profile ect.
Anyway, if you really want to learn more about the subject I would look for the original Aberdeen Proving Ground documents in testing various treatments and plating on everything from small arms barrels to auto cannons to 120mm smooth bore tank guns. I would put more faith in those documents than manufactures claims that nitride is "just as good as". You dont see them thrown around in the usual chrome vs nitride because they are technical papers that are hard to interpret.
Wow, a ton of solid, data driven information.....thanks
A shorter barrel would be stiffer, correct?
Correct. http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-the-rigidity-of-benchrest-barrels/
Chrome plated > nitride > bare bore
But then, I have many bare barrels, so . . .
My sentiments exactly! Nitride, to me, is still FAR better than a bare bore. Example: nitiride is a good option for those who would like to upgrade an MR556 barrel, since real 416 barrels are unobtanium. It is a legit option for weapons that do not have common availability of parts.
I also don't use lightweight barrels. I prefer intermediate weight barrels, basically the same weight as gov't profile but with the mass moved back towards the chamber, like the N4, hanson profile ect.
Anyway, if you really want to learn more about the subject I would look for the original Aberdeen Proving Ground documents in testing various treatments and plating on everything from small arms barrels to auto cannons to 120mm smooth bore tank guns. I would put more faith in those documents than manufactures claims that nitride is "just as good as". You dont see them thrown around in the usual chrome vs nitride because they are technical papers that are hard to interpret.
Can you provide a link? My google search only yielded stuff about the location and environmental stuff. As a ChemE, you have my curiosity.
My current thoughts are Cr>nitride for a few reasons, but they are based on theory. I havent talked myself into nitride for barrels yet.
elephantrider
07-07-18, 01:47
Long story short, the loosening of the barrel extension is what steers me away
Is that even an issue?
Nocalsocal
07-07-18, 02:32
Long story short, the loosening of the barrel extension is what steers me away
It’s my understanding properly made nitrided AR barrels from reputable companies retorque the barrel extension after the process. Or the parts are nitrided separately and then assembled, timed, and torqued to the proper values.
Regardless I believe companies like Ballistic Advantage, Faxon, and Criterion etc. have solved this drawback to the process.
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NickySantoro
07-07-18, 12:51
my preference for the last 40 years has been pencils. and faxon pencils are fine.
Me too. I've never owned a rifle that didn't shoot better than I did, pencil barrel or otherwise.
If you read any threads with input from Battlefield Las Vegas, they claim chrome has a longer life than nitride.
Faxon says nitride is normally more durable than chrome BUT at extreme temps chrome is more durable than nitride.
I run a BCM 14.5” pinned pencil barrel, chrome lined. Accuracy wasn’t a top priority for this build, otherwise I’d run a heavier profile nitride barrel. This was bought about 5 years ago when there wasn’t a lot of real world feedback on nitride.
No complaints re:BCM but between the two, I’d choose Faxon.
vicious_cb
07-08-18, 01:57
Can you provide a link? My google search only yielded stuff about the location and environmental stuff. As a ChemE, you have my curiosity.
My current thoughts are Cr>nitride for a few reasons, but they are based on theory. I havent talked myself into nitride for barrels yet.
As for the small arms stuff alot of the links I have from dtic.mil arent working anymore. Maybe they'll get them working soon?
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA317929
https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2002/gun/waterfield.pdf
I think this one should work, but it also might kill your eyes.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/500112.pdf
You wanted technical here you go:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/751862.pdf
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