XM17/XM18 testing issues

[Slater]

This is extracted from the DOT&E 2017 report:

Both the XM17 and XM18 pistols experienced double-ejections where an unspent ball round was ejected along with a spent round. Due to the increased frequency of occurrence during Product Verification Test (PVT), the Army stood up a root cause analysis team to identify the cause of the double ejections in parallel with continued PVT. As of this report, this analysis is still ongoing.

Presumably this issue has since been resolved. Mechanically, what could cause such an occurrence?

[Leaveammoforme]

I would think it's magazine issue.

Maybe the top round in the magazine is allowed to nose way up (to help with feeding into chamber) and the extracted case is somehow getting under the projectile rotating it up and out.

Or, maybe just crappy lips or spring tension on the top round let it fly under recoil.

[dwhitehorne]

This was an ammo issue caught in the testing. The ammo provided was not always extracting and a live round would strip off the mag and double feed behind the spent shell. When you clear the malfunction a live round would come out with the spent casing. We saw this occasionally when using Federal 90grain frangible ammo. It just did always fully cycle the slide. Sig also made the extract spring pin longer to increase extractor tension. Testing you mentioned was in the summer/fall of 2016 and the report is from early 2017. David

[Slater]

Looks like that answers the question. Never heard of this happening with civilian or LE 320's, but maybe it just wasn't publicized.

[dwhitehorne]

Military.com did a report on it in the beginning of 2018 but I've never been able to find the original USG report they reference. David

[HardToHandle]

Military.com did a report on it in the beginning of 2018 but I've never been able to find the original USG report they reference. David

Did you check Soldier Systems? They have been the authorative source for all things XM17/18.

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/02/02/modular-handgun-system-things-arent-as-bad-as-the-dote-report-implies/

[sundance435]

Did you check Soldier Systems? They have been the authorative source for all things XM17/18.

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/02/02/modular-handgun-system-things-arent-as-bad-as-the-dote-report-implies/

Soldier Systems seems to be apologizing for the gun. Was the problematic ammo a testing requirement of the MHS program (sounds like it) and is it realistic to assume that JHP is going to be the standard for all deployments? Those MRBS numbers aren't acceptable, no matter the spin, especially since it doesn't sound like the military has an intention of changing it out. FYI, I don't care which gun the military picked, Sig or Glock, I just want them to have something that is actually reliable.

[Bret]

I don't care which gun the military picked, Sig or Glock, I just want them to have something that is actually reliable.
I just wonder why they felt the need to set the criteria such that a new pistol had to be designed. There's no shortage of reliable modern designs. How about picking something that's proven? If they felt the need to set such criteria, it would have been a smarter move for them to tell everyone that they'll see how the submitted designs prove out of the next 3 to 5 years on the civilian & law enforcement markets and will make a selection at that time.

[dwhitehorne]

If I recall correctly most submissions were newer designs. Like Smith and Wesson and McDonald Douglas teaming up. Even the reported Glock submission was some type of Gen5 hybrid that we have never seen before. That could have been a brass to the face flop during testing. Who knows.

For such a large contract companies come out of the woodwork to try for it. I think CZ even had a P09 variation to submit. Rarely do DOD contracts do commercial off the shelf selections. Look at all the money spent to design and research a rifle mag a few years ago when everyone thought why not just get Pmags. David

[1986s4]

Given that most new small arms have teething issues going back to the original M1 Garand, do the current issues with the XM17-18 hurt it's reputation irreparably or does it recover? Any opinions on this?

[Slater]

I think it'll be fine. The M16 overcame it's well publicized issues in Vietnam.