View Full Version : Secret Service Fail- How to lose a POTUS
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-14-18, 16:54
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/14/politics/trump-protestor-paraglide/index.html
Holy crap!!!! Are you serious that some guy got this close to POTUS????? Unacceptable!
That guy should have had his chute dumped by a helo miles out, warning shots or flares a mile out and been LIT THE **** UP hundreds of meters out. Stinger, sniper, the Gatlings on his motorcade.
If they guy had been carrying an IED vest, if the weight keeping down his banner were an IED.
And the guy got away? WTF?
It's a links course in Scotland, it isn't like is lots of cover to get close.
That is the most egregious compromise of POTUS security I have seen in a decade.
If I were Melania or one of his kids I would beat the living crap out of his detail and fire every single one of them.
Have you seen the video with the nazi golf balls?
I'm trying to see how this is a Secret Service fail. They were in Scotland. It is Scotland's fail. I'll bet President Trump's detail was over him link stink on pooh. They probably like him, as I hear he is a nice guy unless you are a Cabinet Member.
Do you think we allow foreign protective details to deploy their own snipers or armed helicopters while their principals are visiting?
dwhitehorne
07-14-18, 17:56
Yes the USSS is at the mercy of the host county to cover the outer rings of security. Airspace, roads and intersections along the motorcade route are all huge vulnerabilities that are pretty much completely covered or not by the host country. Not much the USSS can do about it other than protest after the fact. David
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-14-18, 18:01
I'm trying to see how this is a Secret Service fail. They were in Scotland. It is Scotland's fail. I'll bet President Trump's detail was over him link stink on pooh. They probably like him, as I hear he is a nice guy unless you are a Cabinet Member.
Do you think we allow foreign protective details to deploy their own snipers or armed helicopters while their principals are visiting?
Uhm, they don't have the leader of the Free World as their leader. Are you saying there weren't USSS or other US armed assets there?
Either that or the USSS better be skull ******** their Brit counterparts.
Heck, they didn't have a simple drone up to jack with anyone?
I really don't understand how this is not the top news of the day. You think the jihad's aren't stroking their beards in that contemplative mode right now? This is worse than Mathias Rust.
I'm trying to see how this is a Secret Service fail.
If POTUS was not EXFIL-ed out of there when it was spotted, it was a USSS Fail.
Do you think we allow foreign protective details to deploy their own snipers or armed helicopters while their principals are visiting?
It’s a perk of us carrying the biggest stick on the planet and the clout we garner as a result
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If POTUS was not EXFIL-ed out of there when it was spotted, it was a USSS Fail.
Not always the most appropriate response to a potential breach. No point in leaving what is already a clean and hardened environment.
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Yes the USSS is at the mercy of the host county to cover the outer rings of security. Airspace, roads and intersections along the motorcade route are all huge vulnerabilities that are pretty much completely covered or not by the host country. Not much the USSS can do about it other than protest after the fact. David
This.
Aside from the shift, other agents on the detail, and uniformed assets working the sites USSS doesn’t have the manpower to do all of the above. Host country is pretty much lead on all of it minus joint planning.
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Not always the most appropriate response to a potential breach. No point in leaving what is already a clean and hardened environment.
Not talking about "potential breach". Talking about this specific incident. Out in the open, he was at great risk. It looked like they were trying to whisk him awayas it got closer and Scotland was doing nothing. Obviously The Beast is the safest closest place in that instance.
Uhm, they don't have the leader of the Free World as their leader. Are you saying there weren't USSS or other US armed assets there?
As I said: I'll bet President Trump's detail was over him link stink on pooh. They probably like him, as I hear he is a nice guy unless you are a Cabinet Member. I know he was attended by his detail.
https://youtu.be/6tmKlP1XywA
Yea he was at a dead sprint on that one [emoji57]
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As I said: I'll bet President Trump's detail was over him link stink on pooh. They probably like him, as I hear he is a nice guy unless you are a Cabinet Member. I know he was attended by his detail.
Liking or disliking ones protectee has nothing to do with the mission.
I say that as a generality, not directed at you
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The_War_Wagon
07-14-18, 20:22
After seeing their protestors today - and now this - it reaffirms my thought on their new motto: "Scotland the Candyass." :mad:
Yea he was at a dead sprint on that one [emoji57]
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He's 72. He can't and should not sprint.
What if he had fallen and got hurt?
The message sent to the world was, "the US President is not unreachable or invincible."
I doubt that agitator was in a pre-screened area when he took the air. What if he'd had a gun, grenade, or other weapon? (Poison, biological, etc)
Should give Scotland Yard a nasty phone call and leave country immediately.
so wish they shot him out of the sky ! would send the message
but yeah agree others are going to be going hmmmmmmm so maybe next time good things will happen to idiots trying this
Mr. Goodtimes
07-14-18, 22:07
A lot of stupid up in this thread.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
07-14-18, 22:14
https://youtu.be/6tmKlP1XywA
Holy crap, that is worse than I thought. Did they think he was bringing pizza? WTF???
so wish they shot him out of the sky ! would send the message
but yeah agree others are going to be going hmmmmmmm so maybe next time good things will happen to idiots trying this
When he started in from his IP and went for the hotel, why the hell was not lit up? At that point you are in a huge FAIL in that he wasn't intercepted further out? Why Trump was allowed to be out in the open at that point? Why wasn't he being carried off?
I look at the security that goes on when POTUS comes to a city and they shut down airports and the whole interstate system goes to a stop, and all you need is a paraglider? What if it had been an 182 with 1000lbs of explosives?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/3dc711a6-66c0-4301-8931-4f60dff7b4d5
Ok, so I watched the video, let's assume the Greenpeace hippy (who ironically was burning fossil fuels but whatever...) had an IED, a machine gun and an mandate to kill Trump. As he glided within 100 yards Trump calmly walked indoors as the security detail assessed the level of threat.
Thankfully they didn't go "guns blazing" because the newspapers the next day would sound like this "Trump Assassination Team Kills Unarmed Peaceful Protestor" because Trump is like a nazi and likes to have people killed because he's a racist and thought the greenpeace guy might be mexican or something.
Instead the flying Green Machine made a pass of no consequence (except for burning fossil fuels) and Trump probably laughed to himself thinking "What a dork" and feeling embarrassed for what Scotland has become.
Watch the video again.. the recap near the end. The 2 guys on the roof look like they were thinking about lighting him up.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-15-18, 08:57
Ok, so I watched the video, let's assume the Greenpeace hippy (who ironically was burning fossil fuels but whatever...) had an IED, a machine gun and an mandate to kill Trump. As he glided within 100 yards Trump calmly walked indoors as the security detail assessed the level of threat.
Thankfully they didn't go "guns blazing" because the newspapers the next day would sound like this "Trump Assassination Team Kills Unarmed Peaceful Protestor" because Trump is like a nazi and likes to have people killed because he's a racist and thought the greenpeace guy might be mexican or something.
Instead the flying Green Machine made a pass of no consequence (except for burning fossil fuels) and Trump probably laughed to himself thinking "What a dork" and feeling embarrassed for what Scotland has become.
That is not how you protect POTUS. That is using hindsight to justify your inactions. It is called 'luck'.
The real issue here is that this guy got to the 19th hole. Why he wasn't intercepted miles out is the real issue. A helo should have dumped his shoot. A MANPAD drone should have jacked with him, his motor, or lines. That you had to put those point defense people in that situation is inexplicable.
You fly to with in feet of POTUS, you had better understand your life is forfeit. I don't care what it looks like in the press. How many POTUS have we lost- and once again, what level of security is instituted to protect him and this happens.
OK, let's say that they knew that this guy was inbound so that he isn't a threat to be lit up. So why wasn't he intercepted? Why wasn't POTUS not there? Was USSS/NSA and the British assets unable to cipher out that an this was going to happen? What does that tell you about POTUS and our general safety. How is it we spend trillions on defense and some idiots with a $10k powered parachute get that close? What if this were a 150mph drone?
(Wonders how many people posting here authoritatively about what USSS should've done have ever worked a POTUS related detail, directly with PPD, and/or in proximity to POTUS.)
(Wonders how many people posting here authoritatively about what USSS should've done have ever worked a POTUS related detail, directly with PPD, and/or in proximity to POTUS.)
Does watching "White House Down" count? :)
PatrioticDisorder
07-15-18, 10:22
Watch the video again.. the recap near the end. The 2 guys on the roof look like they were thinking about lighting him up.
They should have lit him up, however the shit show in the media today would be a mess. Ironically the protestors sign read, “Trump well below par. #Resist.” Obviously this fool doesn’t understand golf, but I do agree, Trump is well below par at this stage of his presidency.
(Wonders how many people posting here authoritatively about what USSS should've done have ever worked a POTUS related detail, directly with PPD, and/or in proximity to POTUS.)
I did .
Outlander Systems
07-15-18, 11:14
One member posting here is an SME on the topic...
(Wonders how many people posting here authoritatively about what USSS should've done have ever worked a POTUS related detail, directly with PPD, and/or in proximity to POTUS.)
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-15-18, 11:15
(Wonders how many people posting here authoritatively about what USSS should've done have ever worked a POTUS related detail, directly with PPD, and/or in proximity to POTUS.)
How much expertise and experience do you need to see what a shit show this was? The lack of concern over this is really disturbing. I guess we have a VP, so it's all good.
I cant figure out how on earth, this guy "got away" its not like those things are fast or quiet. We wont even mention the giant colorful banner hanging beneath it. I bet Scottand's interest in actually finding this guy is somewhere between fleeting and nonexistent
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platoonDaddy
07-15-18, 11:50
On foreign soil, does the USSS have the right to shoot at an aerial threat?
When my two neighbors return from Scotland, I will ask them.
That is not how you protect POTUS. That is using hindsight to justify your inactions. It is called 'luck'.
The real issue here is that this guy got to the 19th hole. Why he wasn't intercepted miles out is the real issue. A helo should have dumped his shoot. A MANPAD drone should have jacked with him, his motor, or lines. That you had to put those point defense people in that situation is inexplicable.
You fly to with in feet of POTUS, you had better understand your life is forfeit. I don't care what it looks like in the press. How many POTUS have we lost- and once again, what level of security is instituted to protect him and this happens.
OK, let's say that they knew that this guy was inbound so that he isn't a threat to be lit up. So why wasn't he intercepted? Why wasn't POTUS not there? Was USSS/NSA and the British assets unable to cipher out that an this was going to happen? What does that tell you about POTUS and our general safety. How is it we spend trillions on defense and some idiots with a $10k powered parachute get that close? What if this were a 150mph drone?
This. Absolutely.
[I](Wonders how many people posting here authoritatively about what USSS should've done have ever worked a POTUS related detail, directly with PPD, and/or in proximity to POTUS.)
I don’t need to be a gold medal high diver to be able to determine that a belly flop is not the way it’s supposed to be done.
One member posting here is an SME on the topic...
I can too confirm that ONE person posting in their thread is a SME on the topic.......
(Wonders how many people posting here authoritatively about what USSS should've done have ever worked a POTUS related detail, directly with PPD, and/or in proximity to POTUS.)
I have, Russell, KS, 1976. President Ford. Pretty impressed. If President Ford had fallen, I would not have made a move to pick him up. :)
I'm sure a lot has changed.
Interesting. Wonder if the guy was given a pass by local authorities - it wouldn't surprise me with the miserable caliber of politicians you find in Europe today.
Averageman
07-15-18, 19:32
So just guessing that air defence and monitoring air traffic is more in line with host country responsibilities rather than Secret Service.
I'm pretty sure that POTUS Trump has exposed a few faults in their system. Like immigrant violence in London perhaps?
I have no doubt that more than a few "Progressives" on the system in GB would have happily watched as a drone dropped a bomb on Trump.
As it was a couple of the "Royal" family wouldn't meet with him over climate change among other issues.
Between NATO and the reception he got in GB I'm thinking they can all go pound sand. I'm a big fan of these folks stewing in their own juices and paying their own way in freight.
The US shouldn't go broke fixing Europe.
Well, I'll admit I have no experience in PSD and very little knowledge therein. I am curious from those that do, 26inf- et al; in your opinion was this a measured and accurate response and if there was a real threat there response and actions would have been proper/sufficient?
In watching the video things look very uncontrolled and lacking urgency, but I'm not pretending I have all of the info either.
What sticks out to me is there was an unknown threat that approached quickly and was in a position to cause some serious damage, how much time did they have to assess this threat and react?
That could have been a strange but dangerous ambush and the only way they would have found out was if lead started flying or detonations went off, it turned out to be an idiot with a cause and too much time on his hands pulling this retarded stunt, so the response was fine and it turned out okay.
I'm thinking if it was someone who wanted to cause harm, the response of the USS in the linked video might not have been sufficient at stopping it.
It kind of makes me think that these "untouchables" aren't really that protected and could be easier targets than what most would believe.
I know there is no such thing as safety or security in this crazy world and anything can happen and one must react based on training/learned responses, but having a dude strap a fan and a chute to his back and just fly right on in above POTUS within distance to easily do some nasty things and the PSD seemed to just stand around and move a little bit and wait to see what happened; doesn't really fit my idea of being secure.
I think you're all missing the key piece of the CNN video given more time was spent fixated on it than the actual threat to President Trump which was the baby balloon. Priorities, people. :rolleyes:
Averageman
07-15-18, 22:31
I still believe that the POTUS wasn't getting the full support of the host Nation if this was allowed to happen on their soil.
Yes the Secret Service has the bottom line, but think of the possible repressions if a foreign dignitary was killed on our soil in such a manner.
They were slipping, but damn they don't have AAA.
Well, I'll admit I have no experience in PSD and very little knowledge therein. I am curious from those that do, 26inf- et al; in your opinion was this a measured and accurate response and if there was a real threat there response and actions would have been proper/sufficient?
I was a patrol officer, who attended the general briefings and was assigned a position. I did not know the emergency evac plan, etc. Not an expert by any means.
In my view no, the response was not well measured. I simply think it is unfair to lay it at the feet of the secret service.
If I was to be critical of the President's detail it would be that they waited so long to move him to cover.
But we don't know what visual tracking they had on the guy. Did someone have the equivalent of the Hubble telescope locked on him checking to see if he had explosives, etc. Perhaps they had an informant inside Greenpeace, knew about the stunt, and only reacted when he flew closer than they thought.
President Trump also has his own mind, we don't know if he said 'just a second guys, let's wait for someone else to move first.'
We do not know what we do not know.
People think of the USSS as some all knowing amazing bad ass group. And no doubt they are good. But ask me about sitting armed 10 feet from Laura Bush while she gave a speech at our Lincoln Day Dinner. They are prone to mistakes just like any human.
Moose-Knuckle
07-16-18, 05:20
Liking or disliking ones protectee has nothing to do with the mission.
After reading the thread, seeing the number of posts you posted on the subject matter, and that a couple of your buddies outed you I'll assume that you are USSS.
As for your quote above... is Kerry O'Grady still an agent with the service after stating on social media (I realize she was removed from her position as the Special Agent In Charge of the Denver District but wonder as to whether or not she still is in the employ of USSS) . . .
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/921/29572510588_24878731e8_h.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
07-16-18, 05:55
Ok, so I watched the video, let's assume the Greenpeace hippy (who ironically was burning fossil fuels but whatever...) had an IED, a machine gun and an mandate to kill Trump. As he glided within 100 yards Trump calmly walked indoors as the security detail assessed the level of threat.
Thankfully they didn't go "guns blazing" because the newspapers the next day would sound like this "Trump Assassination Team Kills Unarmed Peaceful Protestor" because Trump is like a nazi and likes to have people killed because he's a racist and thought the greenpeace guy might be mexican or something.
Instead the flying Green Machine made a pass of no consequence (except for burning fossil fuels) and Trump probably laughed to himself thinking "What a dork" and feeling embarrassed for what Scotland has become.
Yeah when I read the headline I totally envisioned a ninja in a Parahawk . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwWD9mUyQuE
Whiskey_Bravo
07-16-18, 07:59
Not saying what they could have or should have done but that dude got pretty close. To deny the potential harm he could have done is silly. Grenade, IED, Chemical or Biological could have all been somewhat concealed and he looked to be within throwing distance.
I have to assume he was in at least one scope or magnified view and they could see he didn't have anything in his hands.
Not saying what they could have or should have done but that dude got pretty close. To deny the potential harm he could have done is silly. Grenade, IED, Chemical or Biological could have all been somewhat concealed and he looked to be within throwing distance.
I have to assume he was in at least one scope or magnified view and they could see he didn't have anything in his hands.
How about a shaped charge full of shrapnell on the bottom of the kite, or a suicide vest full of high explosives and a quick release buckle? Maybe a contact fuse on his (or her) ass.
They let him get too close. Pure and simple.
How about a shaped charge full of shrapnell on the bottom of the kite, or a suicide vest full of high explosives and a quick release buckle? Maybe a contact fuse on his (or her) ass.
They let him get too close. Pure and simple.
What if he was actually a she and she had a snuke? Could have taken out EVERYTHING from half a mile away.
I get it. With a big enough bomb, he or she wouldn't need to get that close, but what is the point of a protective detail if not to keep at least those bad guys you can identify far enough away to reduce the chance of harming the principal?
No method of protection is going to be perfect, but this clown got way to close to the President, and I don't care what super secret Commander Cody weapons or scanners or intel his detail had, the goof in the flying chair was a threat. If he had wanted to harm the President, he could have. That alone seems reason enough to have taken him out - if far enough away than with non-lethel options, but by the time he got over the President's party, it was time to either wisk the President away at faster than a snail's pace or up the game and take out the threat, or both.
I'm not an expert. Just a goof with an opinion, but nothing about that video looked professional.
What if he was actually a she and she had a snuke? Could have taken out EVERYTHING from half a mile away.
Like he said, waaayyy too close ;)
What if he had an explosive vest on, and if they shot him, they would have killed POTUS??!!??
What if.....
I get it. With a big enough bomb, he or she wouldn't need to get that close, but what is the point of a protective detail if not to keep at least those bad guys you can identify far enough away to reduce the chance of harming the principal?
No method of protection is going to be perfect, but this clown got way to close to the President, and I don't care what super secret Commander Cody weapons or scanners or intel his detail had, the goof in the flying chair was a threat. If he had wanted to harm the President, he could have. That alone seems reason enough to have taken him out - if far enough away than with non-lethel options, but by the time he got over the President's party, it was time to either wisk the President away at faster than a snail's pace or up the game and take out the threat, or both.
I'm not an expert. Just a goof with an opinion, but nothing about that video looked professional.
Let's try and remember that last time a guy was able to actually run INTO the white house with a knife. You have to find that middle ground between going to Defcon 1 every time somebody lights a cigarette in the vicinity and defending complete inaction because who expected somebody with a "Death to the WTO" shirt to actually be a problem.
Sometimes you have to just assess on the fly and be adaptable. Sometimes you have complete control over your surroundings and sometimes you have almost no control over your surroundings.
We should try and remember that a KNOWN member of the Manson family was able to get close enough to President Ford with a gun to try and assassinate him and it wasn't a member of the USSS or any protective detail that saved him that day. She was actually able to fire a shot and it was a member of the crowd who pushed the gun away.
Also if somebody really wanted to get Trump, or any President, I don't think they'd use such a dramatic entrance. Car bomb parked along intended route would be far more effective.
I wonder if the air space between ground and aircraft altitude is under estimated for threats. These days that is exactly where drones, rc aircraft and paragliders/ultralights can maneuver. I would think by now it would be SOP for protecting heads of state to have a squadron of protective drones overhead at all times for observation, interdiction and if necessary lethal crashing/explosives. Probably way cheaper than some of the other measures also necessary.
It's not this incident that bothers me as much, as some goat raper in cave in shitstainastan now might be formulating a plan.
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Let's try and remember that last time a guy was able to actually run INTO the white house with a knife. You have to find that middle ground between going to Defcon 1 every time somebody lights a cigarette in the vicinity and defending complete inaction because who expected somebody with a "Death to the WTO" shirt to actually be a problem.
Sometimes you have to just assess on the fly and be adaptable. Sometimes you have complete control over your surroundings and sometimes you have almost no control over your surroundings.
We should try and remember that a KNOWN member of the Manson family was able to get close enough to President Ford with a gun to try and assassinate him and it wasn't a member of the USSS or any protective detail that saved him that day. She was actually able to fire a shot and it was a member of the crowd who pushed the gun away.
Also if somebody really wanted to get Trump, or any President, I don't think they'd use such a dramatic entrance. Car bomb parked along intended route would be far more effective.
I agree with everything you said here.
Listen, I enjoy reading your posts and I think you have solid insight on a great many subjects. I just think in this instance, someone on the President's detail (whether USSS or Scottish LE) dropped the ball and made the wrong call. They were lucky this time. Next time they might not be so lucky.
platoonDaddy
07-19-18, 08:43
Neighbor said in the case of the paraglider, "they aren't authorize to take the shot, must be host country".
Doesn't make sense, but those are the rules.
Averageman
07-19-18, 09:14
Neighbor said in the case of the paraglider, "they aren't authorize to take the shot, must be host country".
Doesn't make sense, but those are the rules.
I was pretty sure that was the case.
Do you really want want the Saudi's bringing AAA in to the US to cover the Prince when/if he visits?
The British own this one, it's to a great degree their responsibility to provide a clear and secure environment for these visits.
I agree with everything you said here.
Listen, I enjoy reading your posts and I think you have solid insight on a great many subjects. I just think in this instance, someone on the President's detail (whether USSS or Scottish LE) dropped the ball and made the wrong call. They were lucky this time. Next time they might not be so lucky.
I agree. With basic drone technology available everywhere they should have had a better handle on airspace. But they didn't and it's not the worst "drop the ball" incident I've seen.
He's 72. He can't and should not sprint.
What if he had fallen and got hurt?
The message sent to the world was, "the US President is not unreachable or invincible."
I doubt that agitator was in a pre-screened area when he took the air. What if he'd had a gun, grenade, or other weapon? (Poison, biological, etc)
Should give Scotland Yard a nasty phone call and leave country immediately.
WHy would you call Scotland Yard? That would be like calling NYPD for something happening in Florida. Scotland Yard is the nick name of the Metropolitan Police that polices most of London. Doesn't have a whole lot to do with this event in Scotland.
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