'A Tale of Two Deep States' a plausible explanation for Trumps behavior today ?

[lowprone]

This story is very interesting and will never be reported on any of the corporate media channels.

Sultan Knish: A Tale of Two Deep States
sultanknish.blogspot.com/2018/06/a-tale-of-two-deep-states.html

[Jellybean]

What exactly was going on- I heard something about an odd press briefing or something, but I seemed to have missed it...

[Leuthas]

I can't tolerate the impending imbecility and hatred of the mass media long enough to look into what the 'behavior' actually was on behalf of Trump and Putin. I could depend on the most likely scenario that it was a normal and cordial meeting between two Presidents (hah - Putin a "President") and the DNC's propaganda wing is just foaming at the mouth over invented events.

[kwelz]

The explanation is pretty simple. Trump is an idiot who insults our allies and bends and spreads for his buddy Putin. He just took the word of the Russian president over the findings of every intelligence agency. It is like we have a 3rd grader in the White House

[RetroRevolver77]

The explanation is pretty simple. Trump is an idiot who insults our allies and bends and spreads for his buddy Putin. He just took the word of the Russian president over the findings of every intelligence agency. It is like we have a 3rd grader in the White House

The same intelligence agencies that were tasked with spying on his campaign, that have undermined him at every turn, who launched a fake investigation into his campaign using false documents that they themselves drafted, who funneled money from Russia to Hillary's campaign? Yah, I'd say he has every right to find out more about what Putin is talking about, especially this revelation about the $400M that the Russians transferred to her campaign on top of the $140M she accepted in bribes to transfer our uranium deposits. This isn't a game anymore, the top Democrats have committed treason at the highest levels and it's about to come down on their heads.

[Honu]

The same intelligence agencies that were tasked with spying on his campaign, that have undermined him at every turn, who launched a fake investigation into his campaign using false documents that they themselves drafted, who funneled money from Russia to Hillary's campaign? Yah, I'd say he has every right to find out more about what Putin is talking about, especially this revelation about the $400M that the Russians transferred to her campaign on top of the $140M she accepted in bribes to transfer our uranium deposits. This isn't a game anymore, the top Democrats have committed treason at the highest levels and it's about to come down on their heads.

YIP but the left will keep going after trump as the idiot ?

you know its global warming at the root of it

[Grand58742]

The explanation is pretty simple. Trump is an idiot who insults our allies and bends and spreads for his buddy Putin. He just took the word of the Russian president over the findings of every intelligence agency. It is like we have a 3rd grader in the White House

Putin's pretty smart. He just backed Mueller into a corner and he knows it.

As was asked in another thread, what's going to happen when someone goes into an initial hearing for those Russians and starts asking for evidence?

[RetroRevolver77]

People that don't know what's going on are the ones crying about Trump when it was Hillary all along that was excepting bribes and donations from the Russians.

[Co-gnARR]

Fixed the link to you.

sultanknish.blogspot.com/2018/06/a-tale-of-two-deep-states.html

[Doc Safari]

I think Clyde Lewis has it nailed: the Deep State and intelligence community have a financial interest in keeping the Cold War between the US and Russia stirred up. If there's too much peace, then they don't get the funding, the government contracts, the budget increases, etc. Peace just doesn't put money in deep state pockets like war does.

[Grand58742]

I think Clyde Lewis has it nailed: the Deep State and intelligence community have a financial interest in keeping the Cold War between the US and Russia stirred up. If there's too much peace, then they don't get the funding, the government contracts, the budget increases, etc. Peace just doesn't put money in deep state pockets like war does.

I'll take it a step further if I was to put my tin foil hat on.

The DNC wants this Russian collusion thing to work out in their favor because they are still asshurt like a mother over their chosen one losing to (what they consider) an inferior opponent. They want the election results from 2016 invalidated so they get another chance at winning. Not even realizing it's probably too late, but it's become like a fifth wheel like gun control they just can't let go.

Two words: Constitutional crisis if that was to happen. Of course, they don't care and try to hide behind the banner of "patriotism" while claiming they want to do the right thing. And not even realizing that if you invalidate Trump/Pence, Ryan gets the nod as prescribed by the Constitution which would (probably) be upheld by the SCOTUS. They can't wrap their heads around the fact no matter what they do, Hillary still won't be President. Even with a special election (if this came to pass) she still likely wouldn't win.

If I was a tin foil kinda guy that is.

[Doc Safari]

I'll take it a step further if I was to put my tin foil hat on.

The DNC wants this Russian collusion thing to work out in their favor because they are still asshurt like a mother over their chosen one losing to (what they consider) an inferior opponent. They want the election results from 2016 invalidated so they get another chance at winning. Not even realizing it's probably too late, but it's become like a fifth wheel like gun control they just can't let go.

Two words: Constitutional crisis if that was to happen. Of course, they don't care and try to hide behind the banner of "patriotism" while claiming they want to do the right thing. And not even realizing that if you invalidate Trump/Pence, Ryan gets the nod as prescribed by the Constitution which would (probably) be upheld by the SCOTUS. They can't wrap their heads around the fact no matter what they do, Hillary still won't be President. Even with a special election (if this came to pass) she still likely wouldn't win.

If I was a tin foil kinda guy that is.

I actually think you're 100% right--although your analysis misses a key factor that the Dems won't admit publicly but know to be true. IT IS OVER FOR THEIR PARTY. The only way they prevail is to sew such chaos and whatever they can do to bring down the system so that their power is the ONLY power.

[Averageman]

The same intelligence agencies that were tasked with spying on his campaign, that have undermined him at every turn, who launched a fake investigation into his campaign using false documents that they themselves drafted, who funneled money from Russia to Hillary's campaign? Yah, I'd say he has every right to find out more about what Putin is talking about, especially this revelation about the $400M that the Russians transferred to her campaign on top of the $140M she accepted in bribes to transfer our uranium deposits. This isn't a game anymore, the top Democrats have committed treason at the highest levels and it's about to come down on their heads.
It's not in Mueller's best interests that all of this goes forward unedited to the Citizens of this country.
The Obama/Hillary team has an awful lot of loose ends out there in cyberspace.
So what if while in the meeting with Trump, Putin did a document drop of Hillary's email, things connecting Obama and the DOJ working against Trump's run for POTUS and more current emails concerning Mueller ?

Seems a lot more likely to me than Trump being the Manchurian Candidate.

[dwhitehorne]

As was asked in another thread, what's going to happen when someone goes into an initial hearing for those Russians and starts asking for evidence?

It seems it has already happened and no one is covering this part other than the random mention in the news a month ago. David
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/04/mueller-russia-interference-election-case-delay-570627

[Todd.K]

The explanation is pretty simple. Trump is an idiot...
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


...over the findings of every intelligence agency.
But not their own facts.

The assessment DID NOT involve all the intelligence agencies. It was highly irregular, with only a few handpicked analysts from a few of the intelligence agencies. Based on examining what? Well what the DNC told them was on the server, that's what.

[lowprone]

This excerpt from The Two Deep States pretty much sums it all up rather succinctly.***************************************************************

- The Russian attacks on the formerly formidable NSA were so easy to accomplish because it was no longer countering the Russians. The Russian attacks were very useful because they justified the NSA’s powers, which he was abusing not to go after the Russians, but after American political rivals. And the Russian election hacks played perfectly into his hands by justifying the counterintelligence investigations supposedly aimed at the Russians, but really aimed at domestic political opponents. During Obama’s two terms, the intelligence community was compromised, crippled and transformed to resemble the KGB, with its domestic surveillance and investigation of political opponents.*************************************************************************************************

Anything else is obfuscation !

[Business_Casual]

The explanation is pretty simple. Trump is an idiot who insults our allies and bends and spreads for his buddy Putin. He just took the word of the Russian president over the findings of every intelligence agency. It is like we have a 3rd grader in the White House

Umm, no. No one builds skyscrapers in NYC without having very excellent cognitive function, period.

Here’s a more likely scenario - so much of the swamp has been bought off or compromised by China that they can’t afford a focus shift off of Russia from a strategic perspective.

[Doc Safari]

The truth is our intelligence agencies have some very high-ranking people who want to further the leftist agenda and have created a narrative about what a threat the Russians are to serve their interests.

Here's a hint: why do you think Hillary was more of a hawk on Russia than Trump?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-putin-russia.html


In a reversal of political roles, Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic candidate, is the one portraying Mr. Putin as America’s newest archenemy, whose underlings hack into her Brooklyn campaign headquarters, bomb Syrian civilians and threaten Ukraine and NATO allies in Europe. For a woman who presented a big red “reset” button to her Russian counterpart in March 2009 (with the word incorrectly translated into Russian), the change in tone was more striking than ever in her debate with Donald J. Trump.

She, and the Obama White House, insist they were on the right course until Mr. Putin decided he had more to gain from reviving Cold War tensions than from a quarter-century effort to integrate with the West. Now, much of the Democratic foreign policy establishment has become as hawkish as Mrs. Clinton on the subject of Russia, a view that seems almost certain to outlast the campaign.

With me so far? Okay, so to cover for all their shenanigans including the Uranium One scandal, these leftists have to distance themselves from Russia at any cost lest this president WHO IS FRIENDLY TOWARD RUSSIA should become privvy to documentation that would put some of these deep state leftists UNDER the prison.

[Korgs130]

Great article and completely plausible.

Pres. Trump engages in diplomacy and meets with Putin and I’m supposed to think Trump’s meeting is treason? GTFOH

2010: HRC & BHO approve transfer of Uranium One control to Russia.

2011: Last NASA Space Shuttle Mission, forcing the U.S.A. to rely solely on Roscosmos for our manned space program

2012: BHO tells Russian President Medvedev regarding missile defense , “After my election I’ll have more flexibility...”

2012: After Gov Romney says the Russia is the biggest geopolitical threat BHO responds: “You said Russia. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. Because the Cold War has been over for 20 years.”

2016: U.S. intel agencies still idly by while Russia launches cyber attacks on the GOP, the Democrat party and our election system.

Where was the outrage when all of the above went down? It seems to me that the previous administration were the ones cow-towing to/colluding with the the Russians.

[RetroRevolver77]

Great article and completely plausible.

Where was the outrage when all of the above went down? It seems to me that the previous administration were the ones cow-towing to/colluding with the the Russians.


And Hillary was getting paid by the Russians, $400M in campaign contributions with another $140M for selling 20% of our uranium deposits.

If anyone was compromised or colluding with Russians- it was the DNC.

[Moose-Knuckle]

And Hillary was getting paid by the Russians, $400M in campaign contributions with another $140M for selling 20% of our uranium deposits.

If anyone was compromised or colluding with Russians- it was the DNC.

Hilary's mentor Saul Alinsky put this way; "Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter accusations."

So yeah, the DNC and their operatives will accuse the GOP of the exact things they are guilty of all the while denying their own actions.

[26 Inf]

Your take on this article?

Trump has the right foreign policy strategy — he just needs to stop talking

Washington’s talking heads worked all night and into the morning, discussing the potential damage from the U.S.-Russia summit. Yet, over the long term, there will be no true fallout from President Trump’s badly chosen words at the end of his press conference with thug-in-chief Vladimir Putin.

While Trump clearly made a colossal mistake, throwing his intelligence agencies under the bus while standing beside the man who ordered an attack on our democracy, he likely will weather the storm — at least this time.
Luckily for our president, where America stands in the global pecking order is on the rise — and, looked at objectively without a political lens, all thanks to Trump’s policies.

For example, NATO remains intact and is getting stronger, thanks to growing military budgets — something for which Trump can take. Russia is a weak, declining power, with nothing more to offer the world than oil and guns. North Korea, for now, has been tamed. The U.S. economy is strong, our military might is slowly being restored and will dominate the battlefield for decades to come. That is all thanks to an administration that clearly has had many challenges to overcome but has, on balance, delivered results at home and abroad.

Trump clearly has the right policies. Yet, as showcased Monday, he can undermine it all with shoot-from-the-hip comments that could prove politically fatal if he is not careful. When he opens his mouth without thinking through his actions, fawns over America’s enemies, or goes on Twitter in a rant-style rage, he chances undoing all of his success — and he must learn a lesson from Helsinki, or else.

Consider this: If you ignored (as I try to do) all of the president’s Twitter and press conference rants, Trump has a standard, even Reagan-like foreign policy outlook, clearly demonstrated in his policies towards America’s greatest geopolitical rivals.

First, consider his policy on Russia, where he has pushed back harder on Moscow’s rogue antics than Barack Obama ever did. Trump is arming Ukraine, applying additional sanctions on Moscow, and even attacked close Russian ally Syria — even when Moscow threatened repercussions would be forthcoming. If you never read a Trump tweet, turned on the TV or logged on to Twitter, and just looked at policy, you would think Trump was waging a new Cold War on Putin.

Next, there is Trump’s action regarding China, a massive shift from any previous U.S. president since the 1960s. America is slowly shifting its strategy of what was engagement with the so-called Middle Kingdom to a tough, near-containment style doctrine that has cast Beijing as its No. 1 geopolitical foe. Trump has taken on China over trade — something that should have been done 10 years ago and is wildly popular among mainstream Republicans and many sections of America’s working class, and even blue-collar Democrats. When you factor in the administration’s push to warm ties with Taiwan, Vietnam and other nations that have a shared interest in limiting China’s ability to dominate Asia, along with a stronger military presence in the region, it is clear that Trump means business.

The Trump Doctrine, to reemphasize power politics in U.S. foreign policy, is a winning strategy. What Trump must do now might be the hardest part for him, something against all his instincts and against what made him successful: Let the policies do the talking for him.

For example, when he is at a press conference and he is asked about Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election, he needs to talk about what his administration has done to ensure Moscow has been weakened and pays a price for its actions — and that America will ramp up the pressure if Putin does not learn his lesson. He cannot be triggered by just the mere notion that someone has doubts about his electoral victory. Being the free world’s leader demands that he allow such attacks to roll off his back, or he will be forever punching at ghosts that don’t have to fight back — and only hurting himself in the process.

Next, Trump must stop trying to buddy up to world leaders who want to see America fail. While I understand his strategy — to develop a personal relationship that he can leverage later during negotiations — I can assure you that Russian or Chinese leaders don’t care how nice or fawning he is, and it looks weak. Trump can be as nice as he wishes in person but, when he is at the podium with such leaders, he must project strength yet be respectful. Trump must understand the world is watching his every move — and that the stakes are much higher than any reality TV show. He is performing on the world stage now.

Lastly, Trump needs to use his Twitter feed more strategically. While there likely is no way to get the president off social media, reacting to what he sees on “Fox and Friends” or the latest gossip in the Robert Mueller investigation does not help his presidency at all. He should consult with his communications team and develop a solid strategy for social media that works to further his agenda at home and aboard. Trump can still be Trump, but a little coordination and advice could go a long way.

Clearly, Monday’s remarks will set back Trump for the next few weeks but, in today’s age of quick news cycles and trending topics on social media, he will survive. And for now, America and its alliances are strong, the economy is solid, our enemies are off-balance. Yet, Trump must learn this lesson — or his own words and strange fawning over America’s enemies could be his undoing.

Harry J. Kazianis (@grecianformula) is director of Defense Studies at the Center for the National Interest, founded in 1994 by President Richard M. Nixon, and executive editor of its publishing arm, The National Interest. He previously worked on the foreign policy team of the 2016 Ted Cruz presidential campaign and as foreign policy communications manager at the Heritage Foundation, editor-in-chief of The Diplomat, and as a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. The views voiced in this article are his own.

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/397438-trump-has-the-right-foreign-policy-strategy-he-just-needs-to-stop-talking

[Grand58742]

I actually think you're 100% right--although your analysis misses a key factor that the Dems won't admit publicly but know to be true. IT IS OVER FOR THEIR PARTY. The only way they prevail is to sew such chaos and whatever they can do to bring down the system so that their power is the ONLY power.

Unfortunately, it'll never be "over" for their party so long as the two party system continues to rule this nation. They will have their ebbs and flows just like the GOP, but won't go away entirely.

However, their current slide/charge to the left is comical.

[RetroRevolver77]

Your take on this article?

Trump does need to sometime think about how his message will be received. He's got a bit of troll in him and likes to gloat. Let him tone it down a little and just stick to doing what he does best- winning.

[morbidbattlecry]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


But not their own facts.

The assessment DID NOT involve all the intelligence agencies. It was highly irregular, with only a few handpicked analysts from a few of the intelligence agencies. Based on examining what? Well what the DNC told them was on the server, that's what.

Source on all of this?

[RetroRevolver77]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


But not their own facts.

The assessment DID NOT involve all the intelligence agencies. It was highly irregular, with only a few handpicked analysts from a few of the intelligence agencies. Based on examining what? Well what the DNC told them was on the server, that's what.


Can you please elaborate on this because I still refuse to believe the "Russia hacked our democracy" narrative being pumped by the DNC and MSM. You're saying that the intelligence agencies don't all say that Russia hacked the election, only a few analysts and so far- no actual proof.

[dwhitehorne]

I think this is probably what is being referred to. The group reporting that everyone said 17 Intelligence agencies agreed on hacking that turned out to be 4 actual Agencies. I find it interesting in the article they name. CIA, FBI, NSA and the DNI. Weren't those all lead by Brennan, Comey, Clapper and didn't they try to fire the NSA guy for trying to tip off Trump that something was up. David

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/us/politics/trump-russia-intelligence-agencies-cia-fbi-nsa.html

[joffe]

Trump does need to sometime think about how his message will be received. He's got a bit of troll in him and likes to gloat. Let him tone it down a little and just stick to doing what he does best- winning.

Or, perhaps, he needs to keep going. We've gotten too used to having politicians all fit a mold, have the same tone, the same way of speaking to their constituents, and getting spitroasted in the media if they don't color inside the lines. And who gets to define the lines? Is it the voters? No, in reality, it's been the media.

Time to stop letting the media tell us how politicians 'should' speak.

While Trump makes me cringe more times than I'd like, it is preferable to having a media-groomed anodyne drone sit there and deliver focus group-tested remarks.

[Todd.K]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/06/obamas-white-house-politicizing-intelligence-influence-2016-elections/

This is one I recall reading. The key is not if Russia is messing with elections, it is the confidence in the objective vs what we were first told. (Originally the objective was to cause distrust in democracy/election results, I believe this came out from the Senate)

The fact the DNC didn't turn the servers over to the FBI is not secret info.

[scottryan]

The Russia investigation has been going on for two years.

To date, I’ve yet to hear what they actually did to “meddle” in the election.

[Leuthas]

The Russia investigation has been going on for two years.

To date, I’ve yet to hear what they actually did to “meddle” in the election.

They hacked the election! Hacked it! They did the hacking on the election! Hacked it right in the election.

They had some political bots mixed in with millions of mailorder bride bots and hot babes near you bots.

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn2us.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeekus%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Farticle_width%2Fpublic%2Fjolie_face_off.jpg%3Fitok%3DOHPS6CAx&f=1

[HKGuns]

Here’s a more likely scenario - so much of the swamp has been bought off or compromised by China that they can’t afford a focus shift off of Russia from a strategic perspective.

This exactly. Russia is a bit player with an economy the size of Delaware. China is the real threat and the deep state and major corporate sponsors have too much at stake to allow the focus on China.

This and the deep state is a self protecting organism in bed with the big government Democrats.

[Todd.K]

You don't have to fall for that trap.

It's implausible that Russia doesn't try to meddle in elections around the world, just like we do.

What is less clear, and thus the part easily manipulated for political advantage was their objective.

Most likely Russia acted to weaken the obvious front runner, Hillary. Actually expecting to be able to "get" Trump elected would have been the dumbest plan ever.

[flenna]

You don't have to fall for that trap.

It's implausible that Russia doesn't try to meddle in elections around the world, just like we do.

What is less clear, and thus the part easily manipulated for political advantage was their objective.

Most likely Russia acted to weaken the obvious front runner, Hillary. Actually expecting to be able to "get" Trump elected would have been the dumbest plan ever.

Russia has accomplished much- they created discourse and perception of loss of faith in our election process. They are probably sitting back laughing at all the loony Dems running around screaming "illegitimate president" and "Russian collusion".

[RetroRevolver77]

The Russia investigation has been going on for two years.

To date, I’ve yet to hear what they actually did to “meddle” in the election.


Supposedly Lisa Page stated the Chinese, not the Russians hacked into Hillary's e-mail. However none of Hillary's 30K deleted e-mails have been found. Only the DNC leaks and the Podesta fishing scheme that got into his e-mail. So the question now is, where's Hillary server and where are the DNC servers that were held by those Awan brothers working for Pakistan.

[Doc Safari]

Supposedly Lisa Page stated the Chinese, not the Russians hacked into Hillary's e-mail. However none of Hillary's 30K deleted e-mails have been found. Only the DNC leaks and the Podesta fishing scheme that got into his e-mail. So the question now is, where's Hillary server and where are the DNC servers that were held by those Awan brothers working for Pakistan.

According to Glenn Beck, all but four of Hillary's 33,000 emails were somehow sent to an email address NOT on her distribution list. Coincidentally, the Chinese outed and either killed or imprisoned a large number of intelligence agents working for the US.

[26 Inf]

This is probably a pretty commonly held view on President Trump's actions:

How the Big Lebowski Explains the Helsinki Summit and the International Order

The fear in the West prior to the Helsinki summit between Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump was that Trump would simply give away concessions on Crimea, Syria, or U.S. troops in Eastern Europe. We had it wrong: Instead, Trump gave away America.

Watching Trump at the podium in Helsinki felt very much like watching the end of the American era. It crystallized a moment in which a still-powerful nation lost all sense of its role and purpose in the wider world.

It is important, however, to be precise about why it felt that way. It is not about any policy per se. One can legitimately disagree about the complex issue of how to deal with Putin’s Russia (and, trust us, the authors of this piece do). Trump is clearly wrong to reject the intelligence community’s unanimous judgement on Russian interference in the U.S. election. And he is right in his own strange way to complain about NATO spending and the confusion of U.S. Syria policy. But Trump’s sins in Helsinki transcend mere issues of right and wrong.

We are reminded of the words of that great political philosopher Jeffrey Lebowski (aka the Dude): “You’re not wrong, Walter, you’re just an asshole.”

The U.S. president is supposed to be a leader of his country and its alliances. Leadership imposes certain requirements on both individuals and nations. It means they need to ruthlessly promote the interests of the people they purport to lead. They need to visibly side with them against outsiders and inspire them to overcome their common problems. This is not primarily a question of getting the facts right. It is a question of getting people and nations to follow you, the very definition of leadership. Without such leadership, unity and coherence in U.S. foreign policy or in the transatlantic alliance is impossible.

Trump, by contrast, thinks only of himself. He cares little for those in his charge – either the American people or people of allied nations – and elevates his own problems above all other considerations. He sells out others, even those for whom he supposedly has responsibility, at the drop of a hat. In Helsinki, Trump, seemingly overawed by Putin’s very presence, did not take responsibility for America or the West, but rather chose to pursue his petty domestic squabbles and salve his own fragile ego. He sided with Putin over his own intelligence community on the question of election meddling. He blamed America for the ills in the U.S.-Russian relationship. And he repeatedly sought to score points against his domestic political opponents rather than to represent all his constituents in front of the Russian president.

It doesn’t matter if he is right or wrong about any of these issues. Trump failed to lead his country, and he failed to demonstrate that his country can lead an alliance.

So forget about how many U.S. troops are in Europe or the intricacies of the U.S.-Russia mutual legal assistance treaty. The more fundamental point is, as former Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski noted on Twitter, that “now, as a U.S. ally, we are supposed to believe that if President Putin launches a hybrid war, or even a nuclear strike against Poland, President [Trump] will threaten to nuke him back.”

After Helsinki, who can believe that? Do you? The faith that America will support its allies against Russia is simply gone. Armies are only as good as a willingness to use them, and alliances only endure for as long as their members believe in each other. And without a sense of American solidarity and leadership, the U.S. presence in Europe (and everywhere else) means nothing, regardless of the disproportionate burden it bears.

It was these notions of America as a leader of nations and of its president as a leader of people that Trump gave away in Helsinki. We will not easily get them back.

Of course, Trump is just the president, not the nation. If the nation, and particularly the leadership of the Republican party in Congress, repudiates Trump, the American era may yet endure. But given the mass displays of political cowardice from most of the Republican caucus over the last 18 months, it is hard to be sanguine about such an outcome. So, in troubled times, we turn once again to the Zen of the Dude and remind ourselves that, despite it all, America abides.

https://warontherocks.com/2018/07/how-the-big-lebowski-explains-the-helsinki-summit-and-the-international-order/

[RetroRevolver77]

This is probably a pretty commonly held view on President Trump's actions:

How the Big Lebowski Explains the Helsinki Summit and the International Order

The fear in the West prior to the Helsinki summit between Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump was that Trump would simply give away concessions on Crimea, Syria, or U.S. troops in Eastern Europe. We had it wrong: Instead, Trump gave away America.

Watching Trump at the podium in Helsinki felt very much like watching the end of the American era. It crystallized a moment in which a still-powerful nation lost all sense of its role and purpose in the wider world.

It is important, however, to be precise about why it felt that way. It is not about any policy per se. One can legitimately disagree about the complex issue of how to deal with Putin’s Russia (and, trust us, the authors of this piece do). Trump is clearly wrong to reject the intelligence community’s unanimous judgement on Russian interference in the U.S. election. And he is right in his own strange way to complain about NATO spending and the confusion of U.S. Syria policy. But Trump’s sins in Helsinki transcend mere issues of right and wrong.

We are reminded of the words of that great political philosopher Jeffrey Lebowski (aka the Dude): “You’re not wrong, Walter, you’re just an asshole.”

The U.S. president is supposed to be a leader of his country and its alliances. Leadership imposes certain requirements on both individuals and nations. It means they need to ruthlessly promote the interests of the people they purport to lead. They need to visibly side with them against outsiders and inspire them to overcome their common problems. This is not primarily a question of getting the facts right. It is a question of getting people and nations to follow you, the very definition of leadership. Without such leadership, unity and coherence in U.S. foreign policy or in the transatlantic alliance is impossible.

Trump, by contrast, thinks only of himself. He cares little for those in his charge – either the American people or people of allied nations – and elevates his own problems above all other considerations. He sells out others, even those for whom he supposedly has responsibility, at the drop of a hat. In Helsinki, Trump, seemingly overawed by Putin’s very presence, did not take responsibility for America or the West, but rather chose to pursue his petty domestic squabbles and salve his own fragile ego. He sided with Putin over his own intelligence community on the question of election meddling. He blamed America for the ills in the U.S.-Russian relationship. And he repeatedly sought to score points against his domestic political opponents rather than to represent all his constituents in front of the Russian president.

It doesn’t matter if he is right or wrong about any of these issues. Trump failed to lead his country, and he failed to demonstrate that his country can lead an alliance.

So forget about how many U.S. troops are in Europe or the intricacies of the U.S.-Russia mutual legal assistance treaty. The more fundamental point is, as former Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski noted on Twitter, that “now, as a U.S. ally, we are supposed to believe that if President Putin launches a hybrid war, or even a nuclear strike against Poland, President [Trump] will threaten to nuke him back.”

After Helsinki, who can believe that? Do you? The faith that America will support its allies against Russia is simply gone. Armies are only as good as a willingness to use them, and alliances only endure for as long as their members believe in each other. And without a sense of American solidarity and leadership, the U.S. presence in Europe (and everywhere else) means nothing, regardless of the disproportionate burden it bears.

It was these notions of America as a leader of nations and of its president as a leader of people that Trump gave away in Helsinki. We will not easily get them back.

Of course, Trump is just the president, not the nation. If the nation, and particularly the leadership of the Republican party in Congress, repudiates Trump, the American era may yet endure. But given the mass displays of political cowardice from most of the Republican caucus over the last 18 months, it is hard to be sanguine about such an outcome. So, in troubled times, we turn once again to the Zen of the Dude and remind ourselves that, despite it all, America abides.

https://warontherocks.com/2018/07/how-the-big-lebowski-explains-the-helsinki-summit-and-the-international-order/


I thought about it further- Trump did exactly what he should have done with that meeting with Putin. He didn't piss off the Russians, he showed he was willing to have dialogue with them to avoid a proxy war in Syria. He didn't just outright blame them for yet unproven partisan intelligence community antics that has been nothing but a witch hunt over false allegations going on nearly two years. Even better, the entire situation creates a seed of doubt in our weak EU allies making them realize they need to get their shit together instead of just asking the US to bale them out. Finally, it pisses off the liberals and the GOPe cucks- which is fine by me as well. Win, win and win.

[26 Inf]

Even better, the entire situation creates a seed of doubt in our weak EU allies making them realize they need to get their shit together instead of just asking the US to bale them out.

Good point.

[Averageman]

I thought about it further- Trump did exactly what he should have done with that meeting with Putin. He didn't piss off the Russians, he showed he was willing to have dialogue with them to avoid a proxy war in Syria. He didn't just outright blame them for yet unproven partisan intelligence community antics that has been nothing but a witch hunt over false allegations going on nearly two years. Even better, the entire situation creates a seed of doubt in our weak EU allies making them realize they need to get their shit together instead of just asking the US to bale them out. Finally, it pisses off the liberals and the GOPe cucks- which is fine by me as well. Win, win and win.

That's one of the best evaluations of what happened that I've read anywhere.

[Moose-Knuckle]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/916/43465732442_d52ede8230_b.jpg

[RetroRevolver77]

The deep state and globalists want conflict to further their agenda.

Trump is doing the exact opposite, attempting dialogue and building bridges with former enemies so we don't have to all live in fear.

[Averageman]

Fear and anxiety about your safety will cause you to consider illogical decisions, this means that they've gotten inside your OODA loop.
Take a deep breath, reconsider your options, decide on a new course of action.
Fear is their tool.
Freedom, feeling secure and being happy is the cure.
You control your destiny, don't allow them to do so.

[RetroRevolver77]

Remember when Q said something along the lines of before this is over Barrack will reclaim his Kenyan citizenship to escape prosecution?

I remember when they called him the Senator from Kenya.


Here's Barrack saying that he was the first American President to come from Kenya.

https://twitter.com/ryteouswretch/status/1020712126707568641/video/1


Michelle once said they visited Barrack's home country of Kenya, start around the 40 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=47&v=YqrTsz1wQIM


Seems us birthers were right all along.

[JoshNC]

And Hillary was getting paid by the Russians, $400M in campaign contributions with another $140M for selling 20% of our uranium deposits.

If anyone was compromised or colluding with Russians- it was the DNC.

Do you have any references for this? Please don’t tell me to do my own research. I’m genuinely interested and if you throw out information like this, you have to back it up with references.

[PatrioticDisorder]

Do you have any references for this? Please don’t tell me to do my own research. I’m genuinely interested and if you throw out information like this, you have to back it up with references.

I don’t know about 400mill, but this from the NY Slimes...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

[RetroRevolver77]

Do you have any references for this? Please don’t tell me to do my own research. I’m genuinely interested and if you throw out information like this, you have to back it up with references.


Putin brought it up during the summit, that Clinton received $400M in untaxed donations from businessman Bill Browder, who ran some type of investment fund in Russia. Then after Trump was pressured by the MSM to retract his statement that he didn't believe Putin was behind the hacks, which now according to Lisa Page was actually the Chinese- Putin then walked his statement back about Browder saying he "misspoke". I think Putin and Trump tabled that discussion for now, they are meeting again but let it slip as a shot across the bow to use it later to torpedo any findings that Mueller has in the future to flip the narrative. Putin wants sanctions lifted and Trump wants the Mueller investigation over- so basically the two leaders can help one another.

[Averageman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8nameHMpZI

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-16/putin-claims-us-intelligence-agents-funneled-400-million-clinton-campaign
Vladimir Putin made a bombshell claim during Monday's joint press conference with President Trump in Helsinki, Finland, when the Russian President said some $400 million in illegally earned profits was funneled to the Clinton campaign by associates of American-born British financier Bill Browder - at one time the largest foreign portfolio investors in Russia. The scheme involved members of the U.S. intelligence community, said Putin, who he said "accompanied and guided these transactions."

Browder made billions in Russia during the 90's. In December, a Moscow court sentenced Browder in absentia to nine years in prison for tax fraud, while he was also found guilty of tax evasion in a separate 2013 case. Putin accused Browder's associates of illegally earning over than $1.5 billion without paying Russian taxes, before sending $400 million to Clinton,

[The_War_Wagon]

A tale of two cliff notes - visual form. :rolleyes:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/end%20of%20the%20world_zps5agzcvuc.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/meddling_zpsswmkn8p2.jpg




And leave us not forget, O'bumble's meetings with Putin.

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Putin_Differences.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/Obama_Putin_5_Capitals_zpscsddvmje.jpg

[RetroRevolver77]

I like the cartoon about the Russian meddling.

How dare they expose the DNC for attempting to rig the election! Trump is a traitor for talking to them!

Idiots.

[Stickman]

I'm amazed that the media feels they are entitled to a transcript of a meeting between the leaders of the two world super powers.

[Leuthas]

I'm amazed that the media feels they are entitled to a transcript of a meeting between the leaders of the two world super powers.

Are you? They don't care about the transcript - it's a simple tactic to infer that Trump has something to hide. "If he isn't releasing the transcript he obviously is hiding something!"

Not that it isn't perfectly reasonable to think the MSM suffers from collective bouts of narcissism with good frequency.

[Honu]

I thought about it further- Trump did exactly what he should have done with that meeting with Putin. He didn't piss off the Russians, he showed he was willing to have dialogue with them to avoid a proxy war in Syria. He didn't just outright blame them for yet unproven partisan intelligence community antics that has been nothing but a witch hunt over false allegations going on nearly two years. Even better, the entire situation creates a seed of doubt in our weak EU allies making them realize they need to get their shit together instead of just asking the US to bale them out. Finally, it pisses off the liberals and the GOPe cucks- which is fine by me as well. Win, win and win.

ditto

the left are freaking lunes that no matter what he did they would go against and make up stuff just like the made up Russia BS they have done before

I do think the reason they use Russia so much is many of the older folks that support Trump remember when Russia was the bad guy not China and they think its easier to use this since most old folks are stupid and out of touch (the lefts viewpoint) so use what scares them the most