Accuracy testing, BCM, DD, CHF, STD

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Today I did a accuracy test among 3 of my more accurate AR-15s to see which is the one AR to rule them all. Figured I'd post the results for everyone's amusement.

The contestants

Daniel Defense CHF 16" mid-length barrel with Warcomp muzzle device
Geissele mk13 rail
G2S trigger
Primary Arms 1-6 FFP

BCM CHF 16" mid-length barrel with AAC FH
BCM keymod rail
SSA trigger
Meopta 1-4

BCM STD 16" mid-length barrel with AAC FH
Centurion C4 12" quadrail
SSA trigger
Aimpoint T2 with PA x3 magnifier

The ammo is primarily IMI Razor Core 77gr HPBT, which I understand is a MK262 clone
Some Hornady .223 75gr BTHP steel case match
Some Federal xm193

All shots from bench. Pictures to follow.

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Here is the DD barrel with 5 - 5
Shot groups with the IMI 77gr
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/cde74eabe5d5db9dd9d0ba3038879dad.jpg

Here is the same with the BCM standard CMV barrel
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/b1690bfc9915dda33efbf393c41bc058.jpg


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[Charlie Don't Surf]

Here is the BCM CHF with the IMI. Apologies that it’s not all on the same paper.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/4f4444274f7b066f017f5ee6356b5754.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/5049847249e9a1ad73e8790d7851b7d0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/efb42f755629291182a5a0cd5f6e8659.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/12e51a7a4c83c8381bc6397195213603.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/efe325b3d7d076da31867b4c9b3098c5.jpg


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[Charlie Don't Surf]

Finally the rest with one group each of the Hornady steel case match 75gr and two groups of federal xm193

BCM CHF Hornady
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/08858438bc1c86dea6d486a492303eb6.jpg

The xm193
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/ba7a8f2512cf699566cad26a9bc87693.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/92d18b3dfe753c7c71573370a5988bde.jpg


The BCM standard barrel
Hornady 75gr
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/6363ef6c208e16cfeb5454edd608e44a.jpg

Xm193
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/90cb98fe7e453146aa643e6c8744a73c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/a6bdec12083752c07ca17b8cd28d1a12.jpg


The DD Hornady 75gr

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/f750542a243abb7528ede9a4ae1f9888.jpg

XM193
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/c0c4f42aa2944bb514ad03c9030f90c6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180718/79f6af7d7572d5823efd2b7c77e6ca94.jpg


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[Charlie Don't Surf]

Conclusion: Happy with most of the groups. The Daniel Defense barrel seemed to have the best average accuracy, but it did have the most magnification and best reticle. It also had 2 groups with 3 shots touching, which the other two rifles were not able to achieve at all. There did not seem to be any appreciable accuracy difference between BCM's CHF and standard barrel. The tightest single group of the day goes to the BCM CHF barrel shooting the IMI mk262 at under 1moa, but that rifle also had some of the biggest groups using match ammo. Maybe the wind picked up then.

Overall at worst all 3 guns are easy 2moa with the tested factory match ammo, but many of the groups were closer to 1.5 moa or better. XM193, about 2.5moa or better.

[markm]

The Daniel Defense barrel seemed to have the best average accuracy, but it did have the most magnification and best reticle.

That skews the results for sure. At a quick glance, I'd be ok with any of those barrels.

[redpillregret]

That skews the results for sure. At a quick glance, I'd be ok with any of those barrels.

Exactly. Not scientific at all. Just anecdotal. And agreed, all seem acceptable.


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[Charlie Don't Surf]

Yeah, I have way too many variables for serious scientific testing. Just for starters I'd need to have the same muzzle devices and optics, not to mention atmospheric effects, barrel temperature and a waaay bigger sample size of groups.

[everready73]

Thanks for the data. I always like seeing people post about results with various barrels. While it may not be statistically significant it does help make buying decisions when you see similar results frequently.

I am not surprised the DD barrel put up the most accurate group, they have a good reputation for accuracy. Was the DD barrel overgased compared to the BCM?

I also think some of the reputation for BCM barrels not being accurate are a little overblown.

It seems like Colt is generally considered one of the most accurate chrome lined barrels overall

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I am not surprised the DD barrel put up the most accurate group, they have a good reputation for accuracy. Was the DD barrel overgased compared to the BCM?

I also think some of the reputation for BCM barrels not being accurate are a little overblown.

It doesn’t seem to be over gassed. I’m surprised BCM has a bad rep for accuracy, I’m very happy with my two barrels from them. The CHF one has always been very accurate for me. The Meopta scope mounted on it has a 3moa aiming dot, which is the worst of the group. So it probably can be the most accurate in the group on another day of testing with a better optic.


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[opngrnd]

Great thread! I like it when when people sit down to see what they can actually do with what they have on hand, versus perfect conditions, matching optics, etc.

[dmd08]

I have a BCM standard 16" mid that has really surprised me. I plan on keeping it. A mix of Australian Outback 69 gr. Smk, IMI 77gr. Razor core and if I read my handwriting correctly........wolf gold. :confused: Shot through a Sico omega and a sico specwar 556k.

52956
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[Circle_10]

Here's some of my BCM barrel accuracy results, the upper is BCM with one of their "Standard" 16-inch government profile mid-length barrels, non-free floated with a standard FSB. Gun is topped with a Steiner P4xi.
Here's the best groups from a shooting session with IMI 77gr.
http://i.imgur.com/mEgiRPm.jpg
I've gotten groups as small as .97" with this gun but they aren't the norm. 1.5 - 2" is more typical with this ammo. However that seems pretty decent to me considering the configuration of the gun in question.

Here are some groups with the same gun shooting Bosnian M855. These groups surprised me as I assumed this was going to be crappy ammo and the results weren't half bad.
http://i.imgur.com/4HQmGq9.jpg

One thing I've noticed is that for whatever reason the gun seems to exhibit a slight preference for lighter bullets. In the past it has also shot Hornady VMax 55gr and Provide M193 quite well.

This GUU-5/P style carbine has a BCM barrel in it and I managed a pretty good 100yd grouping with it considering I could barely see that bullseye with my crappy eyesight (I actually had no real expectation of hitting it at all, I had mostly just put it up as a reference point to aim at). I have one pretty bad flyer that I'm sure was my fault but I was pretty impressed I managed to get four out of five with Federal XM193. With the iron sights and Federal I can usually pull off 100yd groups in the 3" - 4" range with this gun.
http://i.imgur.com/Ry9y7LL.jpg

[17K]

I recently tested two 16” ELW BFH uppers against two Daniel Defense 16” government profile barrels.

I used a Nightforce 2.5-10X42, CBC 77 and ADI 69. Both of those loads would shoot into.5 MOA through a Pac-Nor barreled bolt gun.

The BCMs averaged about 1.8MOA, the DDs averaged about 1.1. The major difference was the DD was more consistent in its group size. It always shot 1-1.3MOA groups. The BCMs would shoot a 1MOA group, then a 2.5, then a 1.2, etc.

The BCM was plenty acceptable but I settled on the DD due to overall better performance and the BCMs were overgassed. Even with the BCM comp recoil was harsher, and ejection was at 2:00. The DDs are softer shooting with AAC flash hiders and eject at 4:00.

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I recently tested two 16” ELW BFH uppers against two Daniel Defense 16” government profile barrels.

I used a Nightforce 2.5-10X42, CBC 77 and ADI 69. Both of those loads would shoot into.5 MOA through a Pac-Nor barreled bolt gun.

The BCMs averaged about 1.8MOA, the DDs averaged about 1.1. The major difference was the DD was more consistent in its group size. It always shot 1-1.3MOA groups. The BCMs would shoot a 1MOA group, then a 2.5, then a 1.2, etc.

The BCM was plenty acceptable but I settled on the DD due to overall better performance and the BCMs were overgassed. Even with the BCM comp recoil was harsher, and ejection was at 2:00. The DDs are softer shooting with AAC flash hiders and eject at 4:00.

I’m not a big fan of LW barrels, none of mine (BCM, KAC) are as accurate as their thicker friends and the KMR heats up quick!


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[1168]

This GUU-5/P style carbine has a BCM barrel in it and I managed a pretty good 100yd grouping with it considering I could barely see that bullseye with my crappy eyesight (I actually had no real expectation of hitting it at all, I had mostly just put it up as a reference point to aim at). I have one pretty bad flyer that I'm sure was my fault but I was pretty impressed I managed to get four out of five with Federal XM193. With the iron sights and Federal I can usually pull off 100yd groups in the 3" - 4" range with this gun.
http://i.imgur.com/Ry9y7LL.jpg


Thats a fine looking rifle, and good work with it.

[MWAG19919]

Mirrors my experience. My dad’s DD lightweight typically shoots a little tighter than my CHF ELW BCM barrel, but my BCM is no slouch either.

[midSCarolina]

My BCM 11.5 BFH was an ok shooter... I put 5 or 6 different factory match loads through it and couldn't ever break 1.6moa but it was pretty good (~2.5moa) with PMC 193 which was good with me. My standard 14.5 socom barrel was bad... 6-7moa with surplus bad. I pulled the barrel and re-torqued, I tried different glass, everything i could think of. It was a frustrating experience. Really like BCMs bc they make reliable stuff and I think that in general, from what I have seen on the internetz, they can be decently accurate but they take a backseat to LMT and Colt when I am in the market. I have had better experiences with Colt and LMT and I also rather by from a company that can manage the QC process from start to finish.

Thanks to the OP for posting

[Vegasshooter]

Great to see guys shooting what they have under realistic conditions. I know we all (at least I am really bad about this) want to chase that elusive “Sub MOA” with our battle rifles. I admit I do it often. But, if we are honestly assessing what it takes to make hits on bad things at distance, 2moa at 500 is still 10.5”. Looking at that realistically, that gets us a chest area hit out to the distances 5.56 is capable of for real. Is it nice to shoot sub minute? Of course it is, and many of us probably have guns that will do it, but it isn’t that necessary day in and day out.
My current “everyday” rifle will shoot 1.5moa with my NF 1-8 NX8. Since it only weights 8.5#, with glass, it’s SUPER comfortable and great to shoot all day. It’s all about what you want, and what you’re willing to pack around.

[Pappabear]

Here's some of my BCM barrel accuracy results, the upper is BCM with one of their "Standard" 16-inch government profile mid-length barrels, non-free floated with a standard FSB. Gun is topped with a Steiner P4xi.
Here's the best groups from a shooting session with IMI 77gr.
http://i.imgur.com/mEgiRPm.jpg
I've gotten groups as small as .97" with this gun but they aren't the norm. 1.5 - 2" is more typical with this ammo. However that seems pretty decent to me considering the configuration of the gun in question.

Here are some groups with the same gun shooting Bosnian M855. These groups surprised me as I assumed this was going to be crappy ammo and the results weren't half bad.
http://i.imgur.com/4HQmGq9.jpg

One thing I've noticed is that for whatever reason the gun seems to exhibit a slight preference for lighter bullets. In the past it has also shot Hornady VMax 55gr and Provide M193 quite well.

This GUU-5/P style carbine has a BCM barrel in it and I managed a pretty good 100yd grouping with it considering I could barely see that bullseye with my crappy eyesight (I actually had no real expectation of hitting it at all, I had mostly just put it up as a reference point to aim at). I have one pretty bad flyer that I'm sure was my fault but I was pretty impressed I managed to get four out of five with Federal XM193. With the iron sights and Federal I can usually pull off 100yd groups in the 3" - 4" range with this gun.
http://i.imgur.com/Ry9y7LL.jpg

Nice work rocking iron sights. I'm so effing blind I'm CENTER MASS with irons. I have one 10.5 LMT that is bare bones irons and we love punching with that gun.

It's fun testing your gear. Optics play such a huge role in how I Shoot groups. It's just not realistic to have the same optic on all your AR's. That's what makes it good.
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

PB

[dcf1981]

Thanks for the data. I always like seeing people post about results with various barrels. While it may not be statistically significant it does help make buying decisions when you see similar results frequently.

I am not surprised the DD barrel put up the most accurate group, they have a good reputation for accuracy. Was the DD barrel overgased compared to the BCM?

I also think some of the reputation for BCM barrels not being accurate are a little overblown.

It seems like Colt is generally considered one of the most accurate chrome lined barrels overall

I’m pretty sure that DD’s midlength gas port sizes for 14.5” and 16” are .076 which is comparable to BCM, SIONICS, and Centurion. I think most of Daniel Defense’s reputation for overgassed barrels all stem from their Commercial MK18 barrels prior to changing to the spec .070 port size.

[redpillregret]

For the most part, there aren’t a lot of barrel makers and they are typically outsourced from what I’ve read. I believe Colt outsourced their M4 barrels, but I could be wrong. The Colt SOCOM barrels I’ve used haven’t lived up to the hype. The were accurate enough for their role, but not worth the weight penalty.

Government profile hasn’t shot any better for me than LW or ELW barrels.

BCM has the honor of having made my most accurate AR (other than my LaRue .308) which is a KD4 upper. My second most accurate is a DD LW mid from 2007. It ha 10k on it and still shoots great.


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[everready73]

I’m pretty sure that DD’s midlength gas port sizes for 14.5” and 16” are .076 which is comparable to BCM, SIONICS, and Centurion. I think most of Daniel Defense’s reputation for overgassed barrels all stem from their Commercial MK18 barrels prior to changing to the spec .070 port size.

Yeah maybe that's what I am referring to. I thought I had read all the barrels were but could be wrong. .076-.078 is right were I would want to be for a 16" midlength