View Full Version : Observations on SOCOM muzzle devices, and other QD MDs used with a suppressor
Will (Slippers) brought up a good point in another thread regarding differences in the Surefire SOCOM MDs. That is, that the muzzle brake and the flash hider have labyrinth seals and the warcomps and closed-tine FH do not. I don't think most people have noticed this.
After using the closed-tine warcomp and CT FH, I have decided that they aren't good suppressor hosts because they don't seal as well as the brake or open FH. Not that the latter two seal wonderfully; they don't, and the SOCOM suppressors still get stuck. However, I have found the devices without the seals to be noticeably worse than those with the seals/rings.
Additionally, I have found that the holes in the warcomps contribute considerably to the suppressor getting stuck after prolonged firing (approx 200rds or more without removing suppressor).
I'm interested in the observations of others.
Also mentioned in the other thread was a question about blast baffles in the devices to act as sacrificial baffles for a suppressor. Each of the SOCOM-compatable devices has a restricted orifice (baffle) - including the FH. They are not open/unrestricted such as a NATO FH is. The brake is the only device that has more than one of these baffles.
**To me, QD means quick (a few seconds) detach and without tools, even (especially) after prolonged firing.**
Having used the SOCOM suppressors and mounts extensively I have determined that I don't care for them. They are not QD, even using oil/grease on the mating surfaces. I think there are better QD mounts available. The suppressor itself is durable but I don't consider it QD when I have to shoot it off with a blank (or live round).
I prefer the NT-4 and Griffin M4SD type mounts because they are repeatable and truly QD. The devices are short/same length as a NATO FH. The mechanism on the suppressor is relatively short as well. My experience shows they generally (not always) have more POI shift than the SOCOM set up, but not enough to be a problem. The QD benefit is well worth the trade. (Yes, Griffin makes some longer devices designed to bring a 14.5" barrel to 16+".)
I also have experience with the Dead Air Key-Mo QD devices and find them to be excellent. They have solid and repeatable lock-up, and actually are QD. I don't like how long the devices and mount are, but feel that's a small price to pay for the function.
I know there are other QD systems out there but I have little to no experience with them. I would particularly like input from hard users of the KAC QD mounts and suppressors.
So...which SOCOM device offers the least problems with the suppressor getting stuck, and what is a "labyrinth seal"?
Asking for me.
The circumferential rings around the MD about 1/3 from the rear. Only the brake and FH have them. I did not think they would make such a difference but after running CT (closed-tine) warcomps and a CT FH I see that I was wrong. I'm getting rid of the warcomps and CT FH I have.
dylank0723
07-20-18, 12:45
This hold true for open tine warcomps too? Or just the closed tine
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I have not used the open tine warcomp, but they do not have the rings/seals. Also, I find the carbon and copper deposits left in the suppressor from the vent holes in a warcomp to be problematic. This is particularly so when switching suppressor hosts.
How many rounds can you typically run through a Socom suppressor without getting stuck if you use the brake or FH?
This seems like a nice solution.
http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/20180331_092621-700x394.jpg
This seems like a nice solution.
http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/20180331_092621-700x394.jpg
Q????
I find as long as I don't switch hosts, it's not a huge issue to remove/reinstall surefire cans. I ran about 450 rounds through my scar 17 last weekend with socom 762 mini 2 mounted the entire time, and it has an open tine warcomp. It was a little difficult to remove - the can unlatched and the collar spun, but I had to twist it back and forth a bit to get it to slide off the mount.
By comparison the same can has been run on another rifle with an SF3P, and went 1000+ rounds over multiple shooting sessions without cleaning the muzzle device or mount.
Also, I find that it's not good to heavily lube the mount before use. It seems to contribute to carbon buildup since the temperatures get high enough to burn off the oil. Much like how you don't lube the gas regulator or piston in a scar.
Also, I find the carbon and copper deposits left in the suppressor from the vent holes in a warcomp to be problematic.
I believe this is what’s contributing to your issue and not the lack of any “seals”. Not even sure how they could seal anything being the same diameter as the base. Regardless, my Socom sticking problem has completely disappeared using silicone oil on the adapter mating surfaces.
nightchief
07-20-18, 21:40
Do you use anti-seize grease on your mount? Do you scrub the carbon off after shooting hundreds/thousands rounds or just let it go? I've been lubing with ALG go juice or Anti-Seize, but I certainly see the carbon build you're talking about. I usually scrub the heck out of the can and mount after several hundred rounds. Certainly looking for a better way...
NC
My socom sticks frequently, on a mb, and open tine fh. Cleaning does nothing, anti seize does nothing, lube or grease does nothing. I've tried it all.
The only thing that always works is heating the rear 1/4 of the can with a torch for 5 seconds and it comes off nicely.
I have found that the CT FH (no vent holes) doesn't seal as well as the open tine FH or MB. The can still sticks if you shoot several hundred rounds. I've never tried silicone, but I have tried several types of lube and nothing helps. Leaving the surfaces dry doesn't help either.
This seems like a nice solution.
http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/20180331_092621-700x394.jpg
More on this, please.
More on this, please.
http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/20180331_092621-700x394.jpg
This is the the Q cherry bomb suppressor mount brake.
It's a pretty effective brake with all those vent holes.
It has a tapered surface in front of the threads that effectively seals out carbon, which works in conjunction with the bearing surface just behind the threads to ensure good suppressor alignment.
Super clean threads.
No sticking.
No shooting loose.
Does how tight you crank the ring make a difference?
Where does the carbin buildup casuse a stuck can?
Jwknutson17
07-22-18, 13:06
I've had surefire cans for years and years and never had one stick to where I couldn't get it off. I take them off while they are still pretty warm. Never an issue. I shoot Magtech and PPU m193. I feel they burn much cleaner then federal LC stuff.. maybe ammo directly relates to additional carbon buildup? I still haven't had an experience where I need to torch my can or shoot it off. Only rocking it back and forth a little and comes off..
I use a rifles only HAD core to take the cans off while still hot.
I also only use SF muzzle brakes.
Great info, everybody. My first can is in jail and it's a SOCOM RC. I've been debating which muzzle device to use on the host and this thread is pointing to the brake.
Plan-B™ by Q , currently in stock
Cherry Bomb by Q , currently in stock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw5mMkRN7bQ
I've had surefire cans for years and years and never had one stick to where I couldn't get it off. I take them off while they are still pretty warm. Never an issue. I shoot Magtech and PPU m193. I feel they burn much cleaner then federal LC stuff.. maybe ammo directly relates to additional carbon buildup? I still haven't had an experience where I need to torch my can or shoot it off. Only rocking it back and forth a little and comes off..
I use a rifles only HAD core to take the cans off while still hot.
I also only use SF muzzle brakes.
I also remove my cans while they are still rather warm and find that this helps.
Plan-B™ by Q , currently in stock
Cherry Bomb by Q , currently in stock
Get them to make a Plan-B for a Saker 7.62 please...
Really :help:
EHilderbrand
08-01-18, 07:11
Get them to make a Plan-B for a Saker 7.62 please...
Really :help:
Evidently they're working on it, and one for the Omega 9K.
MadAngler1
08-05-18, 23:40
So TW-25 on the threads would not help? I take mine off when its hot
Why not just lather it up with 1800* anti-seize
It will never get stuck again
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When designing our BoreLock mounting system back in 2010, one of the primary design goals was to have a mount that obviously stayed on when needed but also was easy to remove when needed.
That is why the taper was put in front of the mounting area, as you are seeing more now with U.S. manufacturers as well.
Picture from initial model testing on the Para Minimi, flash hider after 400 rounds
https://i.imgur.com/YD4pCSH.jpg
Picture from 7.62 MG suppressor testing some years back, our HiPer flash hider after c. 1000 rounds suppressed use
https://i.imgur.com/3gNZInt.jpg
Best Regards!
Tuukka
MadAngler1
08-08-18, 20:30
Tuukka, are you guys going to sell suppressors in the US? I would love to try one. If you could also find a way to import some Sako M92’s as pistols, that would be awesome! :-)
Tuukka, are you guys going to sell suppressors in the US? I would love to try one. If you could also find a way to import some Sako M92’s as pistols, that would be awesome! :-)
It sure would be nice if they did, but honestly, it's a pain in the dick when he can sell them in Europe in clam-shell blister packs at the local store, so to speak.
Hi,
We have had our plate full with many other regions around the world and I am not saying that we would not like to sell our products in the U.S, but it obviously requires the right local partner for civilian sales ( being license manufactured in the U.S. )
For government use we can import our products there.
I do not know the exact legalities on would it be possible to import the M92 / M92S there in any form, but they are available in various used condition here, roughly $1900-2500.
However I do know of one M92S in the U.S ;)
I've also found the Warcomps (open tine) to be more prone to getting stuck than FHs and MBs on the SOCOM system. I still like the variety of available muzzle devices and the general utility of the mounting system, but the introduction of 5.56 suppressors by Dead Air, Rugged, or Q could easily get me to start switching over for future 5.56 needs.
Have first hand experience with Rugged mounts as well and they have a better mousetrap in terms of keeping carbon off the threads. Dunno know about the rest but they look interesting from what I've seen.
Disregard...I'll start a new thread in the NFA section.
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