View Full Version : My lever action defensive rife or "Cowboy assault rifle" if you will...
daddyusmaximus
07-26-18, 01:40
First off, I love lever guns. They have an old school John Wayne type coolness that is absolutely undeniable. True, they are outclassed by today's AR when it comes to being the modern self defense rifle, but they are still functional, and very fun. I depend on my .300 Blackout SBR as my home defense, gun, my SHTF gun, and I'd like take it everywhere, but being an SBR it comes with a bunch of pesky federal rules... the most PITA is having to get a permission slip to travel across state lines with it, so I will be building a pistol lower for it in the future, but there are some places where every AR is frowned upon.
Enter the good old cowboy lever gun. It was designed as a fighting gun. No reason to think they couldn't still function as one. I do like them, and most idiot liberals aren't so scared of them that they are as yet being vilified in the press. I decided I needed to build one up that could serve as a defensive weapon. I call it the "Cowboy assault rifle" sometimes just to **** off the liberals. Of course, this is not intended to do any "assaulting" on any others rights. I may do some hunting with it, but it will primarily be a self defense gun against any man or beast that intends me or mine harm. It will be a travel gun that I will have with me in the Jeep for my camping (overlanding) trips, because it should be much less hassle in more restrictive states, and in Canada. Being purely defensive in nature, I only need a close range, but powerful weapon, so I chose a Rossi 92 in .44 mag.
I wanted the accuracy (and cool factor) of a heavy octagon barrel, however I wanted a short little carbine, but nobody made a carbine with the octagon barrel. The 24" barrel was way too long for a defensive weapon, and you'd have to hand load to get the best use out of that barrel anyway with a pistol cartridge.
I ended up starting with a 24" rifle (in order to get the heavy octagon barrel) then had it shortened to 17" by a gunsmith I met through an online forum in my state, who also replaced the front sight with a white bead sight that's much easier to pick up for my tired old eyes. It still holds 9 rounds, and ballistics is very good out of this length. Side note: I got lucky, and it balances very well.
The action was very smooth on the Rossi, but the lever was a finger crusher, and the stupid curved metal butplate hurt my shoulder, so I didn't shoot it very often. By then, my gunsmith lost interest in my project, (he started concentrating on 1911s) and I had to find another gunsmith.
Once I found a new guy, a larger loop from Steve's guns was put on, and no more crushed fingers. I'm not a fan of buckhorn sights, so I went with Steve's guns again for their rear peep sight that replaces the stupid bolt safety. It matches up well with a white bead sight I had put on the front. The dovetail in the barrel from the old rear sight was filled, and a section of picatinny from an AR rail system was mounted on the flat portion of the barrel over it for a Sig Romeo 5 red dot sight. I really love red dot sights. Being right handed, yet left eye dominant, a red dot is the fastest most accurate way I can engage a target. Now, I can see the rail in the bottom of the peep if I take off the red dot, but I can still get a good sight picture, and they are still useable as back up. I keep the allen key to it under the leather ammo cuff made by a guy I met on a lever gun facebook page. That stupid curved metal butstock was that last thing to go. It was cut straight, and a Hogue recoil pad added, making this gun shoot much nicer to an old retired cripple.
Overall I am very happy with the resulting gun. There were problems. First I couldn't find what I wanted in a factory gun. Then things had to be changed, finger lever too small, curved butplates suck, I hate buckhorn sights, barrel too long, I want a red dot... It was not as easy to piece together as an AR, but it came together.
Now that it's done, I love it. It shoots point of aim, (with Hornady Leverevolution) and does so very quickly.
I think that a lever gun is still a viable self defense gun even today. There are drawbacks... A big one is how complicated they are to tear down in comparison to a more modern gun like an AR or an AK where you can break them down in a few seconds without tools, but if you maintain them, they are really reliable guns. And no, it doesn't mount a light, or have a 30 round magazine, but it is legal in every municipality I can think of, and has a cool factor all its own... Hey, I'll always be an AR guy. It's hard to undo a lifetime of living with one, but short of going up against the kind of stuff I did while deployed overseas, I would not feel undergunned with this little Rossi as my back up.
https://i.imgur.com/2fFviPQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5HCgHtT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9DZaB6C.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iHrhA1H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YIixTWj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gLGCvun.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9LFyq0U.jpg
BuzzinSATX
07-26-18, 05:36
Very nice! Nothing wrong with a lever gun! They will get the job done in style!
Nice. That will solve most shooting problems within its range capabilities.
I have stainless Rossi trappers in 357 and 44 Mag. Both have received a Steve Young action job. I have about a doEn other lever guns and Rossi’s are the cheapest of the bunch, but also favorites. They sure shoot better groups than their more expensive cousins from Browning and Marlin, especially the 44.
I am a huge fan of anything 44 caliber, but would choose a 357 for a defensive, do it all, levergun.
Nice. That will solve most shooting problems within its range capabilities.
You’re the second person I’ve seen put such thoughts in writing recently, and it has me reevaluating what firearms I truly “need” vs. being just nice to own.
You make an excellent point.
Very nice!
I'm a big fan of the "cowboy assault rifle" concept. A few years ago, I had JM 336w worked over and shortened to 16" to serve in that capacity. Despite some Marlin quirks, it's a handy little blaster.
I'd like to do this too.
Unfortunately I'd end having nearly $2K in a lever rifle.
$500 for gun minimum, plus work to shorten the stock and add a buttpad, (LOP is too long) more work to shorten the barrel, possibly the mag tube, then crown, re install front sight, thread, and refinish. Then it needs a rail mount to add an optic. Probably up to $1200 now.
Ideally, I'd want to add a suppressor to shoot heavy subsonic bullets with zero action/port noise. Add another $800 for that to happen and we're at $2000.
I do like your rifle!
Nice looking piece.
I just sent my 30-30 Glenfield (Marlin 336) to be threaded.
It’s not as nice looking as yours!
Glad you finally got what you wanted out of the Rossi.
I have a Marlin 1894; has a 'normal' butt plate. Field stripping is really simple by comparison. Enough that cleaning from the breech is not such a chore as might be for a '92 or a '73.
Pistol bullets coming out of the longer barrel take on a different character; hollowpoints usually become much more explosive, penetrate less.
I just picked up a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington that I had shortened down to 16.25 with an Ashley Rail installed. I had the work done by some of the best Cowboy Action gunsmiths in the country. Action job and shortening of the barrel was a reasonable $400. Very pleased with the results.
daddyusmaximus
12-18-18, 10:16
I just picked up a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington that I had shortened down to 16.25 with an Ashley Rail installed. I had the work done by some of the best Cowboy Action gunsmiths in the country. Action job and shortening of the barrel was a reasonable $400. Very pleased with the results.
Sounds nice. I put the XS rail on my 336, (30-30) but want some magnification on it. I have been considering the Ashley Rail, and a Vortex Strike Eagle...
Sounds nice. I put the XS rail on my 336, (30-30) but want some magnification on it. I have been considering the Ashley Rail, and a Vortex Strike Eagle...
Mine has a Vortex 2-7x LER scope on it. I'm happy with it so far. Pretty inexpensive scope really but it does what I need, it's really a 200 yard or less gun.....
Mine has a Vortex 2-7x LER scope on it. I'm happy with it so far. Pretty inexpensive scope really but it does what I need, it's really a 200 yard or less gun.....
Pics?
Pics?
See what I can do over the upcoming break! I have never had much success with posting pictures online.....
I personally like the 357 Magnum as a defensive lever gun cartridge over any others. The 357 really wakes up when fired from a 16 to 18 in carbine barrel, it is right on the heels of the 30-30 within a hundred yards or so and recoil is very light. Both my wife and a small statured female friend have no problem blasting 357 rounds out of my Rossi 92 that wears a steel buttplate and both ladies hesitate to shoot a 30-30 again.
The 357 is very easy to reload, the loaded ammunition is relatively lightweight, and it's pretty quiet.
My defensive rifle in an AR, but I wouldn't worry if I only had one of my 357 lever guns.
Andy
I personally like the 357 Magnum as a defensive lever gun cartridge over any others. The 357 really wakes up when fired from a 16 to 18 in carbine barrel, it is right on the heels of the 30-30 within a hundred yards or so and recoil is very light. Both my wife and a small statured female friend have no problem blasting 357 rounds out of my Rossi 92 that wears a steel buttplate and both ladies hesitate to shoot a 30-30 again.
The 357 is very easy to reload, the loaded ammunition is relatively lightweight, and it's pretty quiet.
My defensive rifle in an AR, but I wouldn't worry if I only had one of my 357 lever guns.
Andy
My sons started hunting with a Marlin .357. Using the Federal Castcore 180 grain LBT bullets, there was nothing they shot over about a 10 year period that didn't die. Mule deer, whitetails, feral hogs- literally by the trailer load etc....We had more than one "double" on feral hogs at feeders- hit one in the head and through and through to another, DRT. Used to load .50 cal cans full of .38's for them to shoot, the guns action is smooth as glass, they shot the tar out of it.....When I croak, there will be a serious fight over that one I'm afraid!
daddyusmaximus
12-19-18, 10:20
I personally like the 357 Magnum as a defensive lever gun cartridge over any others. The 357 really wakes up when fired from a 16 to 18 in carbine barrel, it is right on the heels of the 30-30 within a hundred yards or so and recoil is very light. Both my wife and a small statured female friend have no problem blasting 357 rounds out of my Rossi 92 that wears a steel buttplate and both ladies hesitate to shoot a 30-30 again.
The 357 is very easy to reload, the loaded ammunition is relatively lightweight, and it's pretty quiet.
My defensive rifle in an AR, but I wouldn't worry if I only had one of my 357 lever guns.
Andy
My next lever gun will probably be a .357 mag. I want to round off the collection. It won't happen for a while though. I just got a 45-70.
I've actually been thinking about selling this one, as I'm finding out I like the pistol grip style of stock better. Much easier on my wrist. If I do, I'll need to replace it first. I already have a stash of .44 mag ammo, and it does hit harder.
I personally like the 357 Magnum as a defensive lever gun cartridge over any others. The 357 really wakes up when fired from a 16 to 18 in carbine barrel, it is right on the heels of the 30-30 within a hundred yards or so...……...Andy
You are right, it does wake up a bit. Remington 125g JSP is rated at 1450 fps and it chronographs at 2125 fps when fired out of my EMF 1892 with 24" barrel.
halfmoonclip
04-14-19, 12:26
Big fan of trapper-length pistol caliber levers. My deer rifle is a .44 Marlin trimmed to 16" and a 4x scope. It's a brush gun, and an absolute hammer inside a hundred yards. My 240 gr reloads are crowding 1600'sec.
The '94 Winchester is in .45 Colt, and it eats cowboy level loads that still have surprising punch. It wears a Lyman tang sight, which is the way to do bidness on this sort of rifle IMHO. It's quick and accurate, but it is very much in character for a 19th century design.
Concur that it is easy and legal to take anywhere.
I thought the out-of-state business was no longer an issue with the Feds, assuming the state you are visiting recognizes FFA firearms.
Moon
daddyusmaximus
04-17-19, 09:01
Depends on what state you go to. Some liberal states are pretty screwed up, and some of my travels will be taking me into Canada as well on my way to AK. Besides, cowboy guns are cool, and fun.
ramairthree
04-17-19, 13:47
A couple of 8 shot revolvers and a lever gun in 357 is not a force to be dismissed.
I’m not saying I am going to clean a few racks of plates and a couple of Texas stars and some poppers as quick as I would with a magazine Fed Carbine or semi auto pistols,
And speeloader or moon clip reloads, let alone the lever gun reloads are not going to be on par,
But You can be a force to conetend with.
I thought a pump would be faster than a lever gun, but all I have tried and the two I own just can’t be worked as fast as a lever gun without getting some malfunctions.
Having grown up with a old 1916 Win 94 as the home’s first deer rifle and primary defense firearm, I have an affinity for lever guns for both woods and home. Although my current home defense rifle is a BCM middy, I also have a Marlin 1894 to go with my S&W M29 .44. Mainly for fun but also for camping. As you stated, I would feel very comfortable with just my lever gun for home defense. It filled that role in many homes for nearly a century.
My Marlin is pretty much stock with a Leupold 1.5-4x VX2 in a DeadNutz mount. Fortunately it is accurate with the same 240 gr handloads I favor for my revolver. And it really loves shooting a Hornady 240 gr XTP ammo.
daddyusmaximus
05-11-19, 19:54
Update... Probably gonna get flamed for this... but I added a light to my .44mag Rossi 92. It's the Streamlight Protac Rail Mount 1 on a Haley Strategic Thorntail mount. In combination with the Romeo 5 already there, this should finish the gun off nicely.
https://i.imgur.com/qc6SZCA.jpg
I still retain the good balance, and one handed carry leverguns are famous for.
https://i.imgur.com/AueqS3R.jpg
Streamlight must have known what I was gonna do. They include a perfect size set of little screws for mounting the switch on plastic or wood stocks.
https://i.imgur.com/4Bd40vL.jpg
I zip-tied the wire up so as not to have it resting on the barrel.
https://i.imgur.com/yt4XiKe.jpg
Ok that is not exactly what I think of when a lever action is mentioned. BUT, given your situation and reasoning it makes sense. Still reasonably light and balanced. Well thought out.
There is another thread about AR versus shotgun. I think the most important factor for SD is to use what you are most familiar with. Being able to run a firearm efficiently and smooth and accurately will give you a great advantage regardless of type or caliber. And keep practicing with you SD gun frequently to keep than muscle memory fresh.
The lever action can be a lot of fun to shoot so it makes frequent practice more likely. I don’t think you need to shoot 200 rds every Range session either. But lots of snap shots, reloads, shooting at different size targets and shapes at various SD distances.
This thread is one of the reasons I love and support this forum more than any other.
With that said, what are every ones thoughts on a Bolt action 357 or 44 mag? Ruger 77/44 or 77/357 being setup to run in this same manner? Bolt guns are generally 50 state legal are they not? Or is it because it has a detachable magazine rule that out?
daddyusmaximus
05-18-19, 21:23
This thread is one of the reasons I love and support this forum more than any other.
With that said, what are every ones thoughts on a Bolt action 357 or 44 mag? Ruger 77/44 or 77/357 being setup to run in this same manner? Bolt guns are generally 50 state legal are they not? Or is it because it has a detachable magazine rule that out?
A bolt gun would work. I think a lever is quicker to operate, but a detachable mag would be quicker to load. Also I can fit 10 rounds of .44 mag in my levergun. How many round mag are you talking? 10 or less should be legal everywhere, but not many bolt guns have 10 round capacity. (I miss my #4 MK 1)
Don't forget... leverguns are cowboy cool...
A bolt gun would work. I think a lever is quicker to operate, but a detachable mag would be quicker to load. Also I can fit 10 rounds of .44 mag in my levergun. How many round mag are you talking? 10 or less should be legal everywhere, but not many bolt guns have 10 round capacity. (I miss my #4 MK 1)
Don't forget... leverguns are cowboy cool...
I believe the 357 Ruger 77/357 is 5rd mag and I had a 77/44 before Indiana legalized actual rifles for deer and it was 4 round mags.
When comparing the 30/30 Marlin I have vs the 77/44 I had, I could run the 77/44 bolt much faster. Could be less recoil but that was just my experience.
Oh and I recently acquired a No 5 Enfield (“Jungle Carbine”). Maybe I’ll put some work into it and use that!
daddyusmaximus
05-22-19, 08:48
Feel like I need to step up my photography game.
"Gun on the floor" shots are boring...
https://i.imgur.com/CptIOtA.jpg
I am kind of a .357 Rifle freak and have about five rifles in that caliber. The Ruger 77/357 and my Marlin 1894CP are the two I like the best. Because the Marlin is almost irreplaceable right now, I take the Ruger out more often. I have also set up a very low key Marlin 336 JM with a 16" barrel for car travels and camping. It has all the range I need, plenty of power, and very rarely gets a second look. It anyone does ask about it, they seem to think that I am out with my great-grandfather's rifle for nostalgia. I love my AR's and use them when appropriate, but everyone should own a "on the down-low" rifle. The .30/30 really shines in this role, but the .357 has some good advantages as well. Here are some good thoughts from Veral Smith of LBT fame:
Veral's Book: "Jacked Performance With Cast bullets":
THIS is something Verryy Verryy practical ... and Extremely deadly!
Those 2 Antelope both dropped at 125 and 302 yards lazered w/ 1 round, each bullet through both shoulders/bones; complete shoot-through. This done with an old "pistol" cartridge. I've never seen a more Completely Efficient use of this cartridge. This System WORKS!
1. THE KEY to this whole system is casting the LBT 187 gr. WFN (Wide Flat Nose) gas check bullet ... Randy Garrett copied the exact bullet shape; his 540 gr. Hammerhead in .45-70 at 1550 fps. will shoot completely through an African Cape Buffalo and kill the one behind it.
If you DO NOT cast your own bullets at present, you CAN order this bullet from Cast Performance Bullets: --- HOWEVER: Cast Performance DOES NOT use LBT Lube, THEREFORE, users will run into pressure problems at lower temperatures and with lighter loads than when using LBT lube. Accuracy will not be as good either. Montana Bullet Works sells them lubed with LBT Commercial lube and they'll deliver top notch performance.
NO PROBLEM shooting clean through say 4 to 6 bad guys with this 187 gr. LBT bullet depending on circumstances, any bones hit, etc., as it has already shot lengthwise completely through Elk. This .357 Magnum system is in reality a "mini-mini Garret .45-70 type set up".
Research revealed:
** You DO NOT want this combo in a .44 Magnum because:
a. It would be about double the ammo weight And size ...and so you'd carry Easily Twice the .357 rounds.
b. Not needed.
c. Excessive recoil in a big way in this M94 configuration w/ 325gr+ gr. bullets. (Like an 8lb. 30/06).
** With this 187 gr. LBT bullet you get 8% to 20% less pressure at the same velocity/output as a jacketed bullet.
** In casting, use 10 lbs. wheelweights w/ 1 TBL. of high antimony shot -- water drop them.
** About 400% more penetration than a jacketed bullet in any realistic medium from live flesh to ballistic gelatin to wet saturated newspapers with inter-spaced bones.
** The LBT Stays nose-on with no yaw while traveling through flesh or liquid medium until it goes subsonic at the least.
** 25% tighter groups. 20% more wound cavitation.
** 80% less cost than jacketed bullets or better if you cast your own.
1. Approx. 17 grns. H-110 or 296 will yield about 1920 fps. in an 18" barrel. (Work up from maybe 16.5gr. or so).
Use MAGNUM PISTOL primers and crimp the bullet.
2. .357 Mag. brass is Everywhere and cheap as dirt; everybody has it. Sometimes its free.
3. No bullets to buy; you cast your own (you will have to buy Hornady gas checks).
4. Recoil Wayyyy less than a .243/.22-250 and the report is QUIET QUIET QUIET.
5. At 17 grns. of H-110 (or 296), a can of powder goes a Lonnggg way -- 411 rounds.
6. The rounds are about Half the size, weight and maybe 1/5 the recoil of a .44 Mag. In a Grab N' Go you could Easily have over 300 rounds with you -- No Sweat, AND control your environment to easily beyond 350 yards.
7. You have a short, light, accurate, fast firing carbine holding 10 rounds w/ no recoil-induced bullet back-out problems in a spring cushioned magazine tube. You DO WANT the Marlin Model 94 as it will reliably feed this bullet, and you can clean it from the breech. It will weigh 8 lbs. fully loaded with Scoutscope mounted, OR, you can mount say a Burris Fullfield II Riflescope 2X-7X.
8. Compare this .35 caliber bullet, shape, weight, velocity, penetration, recoil, cost, and effectiveness against say a .30-30.
9. I would guess that Most of today's shooters/hunters/riflemen have Very Little idea of what can be accomplished with lead bullet technology similar to what was used 2 centuries ago. You look around and you don't see any more Buffalo wandering about.
10. THIS IS A SERIOUS, DEADLY, EFFICIENT, ALL-ROUND SYSTEM!
You could employ this carbine system say to a town's population of females from young girls 10 years of age on up, (even young girls will LOVE shooting this rifle) who have been taught only basic Riflecraft and Mindset... and have an unbelievable force to be reckoned with. It is an AWESOME combination for either hunting, or, for urban warfare if needed.
It is unbelievably deadly and it is accurate, zilch recoil and QUIET QUIET QUIET. This combination has shot lengthwise completely through Elk up in Idaho; this bullet is the KEY to this combination to be able to have such capabilities. The bullet Ballistic Coefficient is .187, the B.C. being run as a G-1 drag model.
You can easily be effective to 300 yards with this combination, and it looks plebeian and Totally Innocent. 10 rounds of this as fast as you need to shoot and as fast as you can work that lever and shoot...its Fast!
THIS SYSTEM WORKS!!
11. All of this, in a simple "innocent, plebeian, ho-hum" looking piece at an inexpensive price that is "legal" even in places like the Peoples Republik of New Jersey or California.
This might be my next one. Marlin dark series
30-30 Win.
5-shot, full length tubular magazine
16.25" Barrel
Threaded muzzle - 5/8"x24
Parkerized finish on metal
Paracord Sling
XS Lever Rail with Ghost Ring
Black stock painted with black webbing
Big Loop Lever
Paracord wrapped lever
Overall Length: 34.5"
Approximate Weight: 7.65lbs
I have a 1907 Windchester model97 30-30 sadle ring carbine that I dont want to mess up. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190922/2276148ded77af3bf99f8d5ca76bec80.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190922/a8afadb8d43c85a963e8fb1a2cff7b2f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190922/225ab196ce5fd241d24c19890ff14d89.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190922/ac942d6874a56b599f38fee2318f2bd1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190922/9ef2eb26c741de6e38de316beacac014.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190922/17a1914d135111e5578f951ebf556eaa.jpg
I like that Marlin Dark series, cool looking gun if a little spendy. Here's a (partial) pic of my 30-30 Marlin with a Burris Fastfire II
https://i.imgur.com/95rBotq.jpg
Love my levers. Something tells me they are on a up-tick trend in popularity right now.
My .357 Marlin 1894C paired with my Ruger GP 100 is great combo. However the Marlin is a JM stamped original and they are, as mentioned in the thread, irreplaceable nowadays. But I took a lot of deer from tree stands with 168gr Buffalo Bore's in that carbine. Skinner Sights were a beautiful and worthwhile upgrade to it.
My .44 1894SS is a tack driver despite being a Remlin. I'm not opposed to using that carbine all over the ranch and possibly leaving available as a HD gun.
Last shooting outing at a friends ranch I witnessed my 44 was smacking steel plates twice as hard as my 300BLK subs.
Mine was never bought as a hedge but who knows the way things are going. I have been loading with trail boss around 1000-1100 fps for some short range steel fun. With the lack of recoil, makes it a blast and all can enjoy.
halfmoonclip
09-22-19, 16:47
Don't let that O'Rourke fellow see those tactical levers, he'll have a bird. Call it a 19th Century Assault Rifle, and he'll be writing legislation.
My 16" trapper Marlin isn't an objectionable kicker with 240 grs around 1600. I've lost my enthusiasm for .357 Mags in revos, and that has carried over to carbines. No offense, that is just me.
Moon
I find my tastes start to change the older I get. Years ago I would never look at a lever action, now I find myself picking them up at gun stores and debating on whether or not to buy. A while ago I was talked into buying an old Marlin 336 30-30. It was ok but I just didn't care for it. Since it was a C&R I sold it to some collector. Now I regret getting rid of it.
Recently I stumbled into a Marlin 1895CB in 45-70. 26in barrel, 9 round tube! It's still on layaway but I can't wait to take this one out
daddyusmaximus
09-23-19, 08:37
I find my tastes start to change the older I get. Years ago I would never look at a lever action, now I find myself picking them up at gun stores and debating on whether or not to buy. A while ago I was talked into buying an old Marlin 336 30-30. It was ok but I just didn't care for it. Since it was a C&R I sold it to some collector. Now I regret getting rid of it.
Recently I stumbled into a Marlin 1895CB in 45-70. 26in barrel, 9 round tube! It's still on layaway but I can't wait to take this one out
45-70 would be kinda overkill for a defensive gun, but they sure are cool. My VFW has a 1895GBL up on a gun raffle. We're hoping the lust for the big cartridge will sell tickets...
45-70 would be kinda overkill for a defensive gun, but they sure are cool. My VFW has a 1895GBL up on a gun raffle. We're hoping the lust for the big cartridge will sell tickets...Always wanted some kind of a big cartridge rifle after playing with my friend's Buffalo Bore 45-70 single shot but I never liked the carbine versions of the lever actions in 45-70. Then this one showed up at a LGS. With the Marlin we're talking 26in octagon barrel with 9 rounds! [emoji48]
Perfect size and caliber for home defense! [emoji16]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190923/00d962485e0693ca8da4ffc970a97e1a.jpg
halfmoonclip
09-23-19, 10:18
To my lasting regret, I picked up a Ruger #3 in .45-70. I reloaded for it, and never did find a way to load it down that it didn't kick me half to death. It weighed maybe 5 lbs, and I tried kapok, toilet paper, just to fill that cavernous case and produce some reduced power loads. Nothing worked, and I dumped it.
This was the days before Trailboss.
Moon
This thread got me wondering if lever-action rifles in pistol cartridges would become the go-to rifle for home defense if they ever outlawed semi-auto's. But I think they would have too much overpenetration to be safe for use inside. A shotgun might return as the big dog again. Although Browning does make some level action rifles in .223. I'm not sure but it got me thinking.
This thread got me wondering if lever-action rifles in pistol cartridges would become the go-to rifle for home defense if they ever outlawed semi-auto's.
That is the direction I am heading.
Used to be that way back in the days of horse and buggy. Pistol and rifle being the same caliber made ammo requirements much easier.
daddyusmaximus
09-26-19, 22:19
Used to be that way back in the days of horse and buggy. Pistol and rifle being the same caliber made ammo requirements much easier.
Well, I have a 5.56 rifle, and a 5.56 "pistol". Does that count?
Of course! Isn't that the whole idea?
Well, I have a 5.56 rifle, and a 5.56 "pistol". Does that count?
Of course! Isn't that the whole idea?
LOL those are not "hip" pistols.
This being a M4 site the nod obviously goes to carrying mags pre-loaded with rifle cartridges.
But seriously, don't knock those magnum pistol lever action carbines. They are a real joy to shoot. The idea is to have a hand gun that uses the same ammo as your long gun. This is generally "small" ammo so it's feasible to carry more rounds. More so than rifle rounds. The long guns tend to get all the trigger time though as they are more forgiving than those big magnums in a hand gun.
I wish one of the major manufacturers made a lever action in .500 S&W. My dad has one that he had custom made by Bighorn I believe. It's a $2,500 lever action though. If Marlin or Henry made one it would be more affordable. Talk about a good bear/dangerous game gun to carry along side a .500 revolver.
halfmoonclip
09-28-19, 20:53
Depending on ammo, a PCC lever gun makes a lot of sense. My chief complaints with shotguns are their size, recoil, and relatively few rounds. A PCC holds more rounds, is shorter, lighter, and (load dependent) kicks less. Nah, I'd take a PCC lever as a defense piece in a long heartbeat.
Moon
Anybody have any experience suppressing leverguns? I was eyeballing the Marlin threaded .357 and got some ideas. I like the factory peep sight on that model, but most cans would probably obscure them, and I would want to stick to irons on this project. The Dead Air Odessa might work, but I need to contact them and see if its rated for that; .357 and .38 are not on the list on their website.
Anybody know of any other suitable cans for iron sight use?
Also, if anybody knows of a suitable threaded host in .357 with blued steel and walnut with a regular (non big-loop) lever, I’d love to hear about that.
Anybody have any experience suppressing leverguns? I was eyeballing the Marlin threaded .357 and got some ideas. I like the factory peep sight on that model, but most cans would probably obscure them, and I would want to stick to irons on this project. The Dead Air Odessa might work, but I need to contact them and see if its rated for that; .357 and .38 are not on the list on their website.
Anybody know of any other suitable cans for iron sight use?
Also, if anybody knows of a suitable threaded host in .357 with blued steel and walnut with a regular (non big-loop) lever, I’d love to hear about that.
The SilencerCo Osprey might be a good option to look at. I think it's rated for 357 mag on barrels 16" or longer. (Pic borrowed from Reddit)
https://i.redd.it/k4cojfsphvh31.jpg
Hickock did a video with an SBR'd Mare's Leg and an Osprey (shooting 38 spl):
https://youtu.be/YXc0rm6dzVs?t=465
Osprey looks like it might be a good idea, thanks.
daddyusmaximus
09-30-19, 12:09
If I had the time, and money, I'd suppress, and SBR mine too, but with no stamps, I don't have to worry about traveling with it.
If I had the time, and money, I'd suppress, and SBR mine too, but with no stamps, I don't have to worry about traveling with it.
Thats solid logic. I probably won’t SBR if I buy another levergun.
I am kind of a .357 Rifle freak and have about five rifles in that caliber. The Ruger 77/357 and my Marlin 1894CP are the two I like the best. Because the Marlin is almost irreplaceable right now, I take the Ruger out more often. I have also set up a very low key Marlin 336 JM with a 16" barrel for car travels and camping. It has all the range I need, plenty of power, and very rarely gets a second look. It anyone does ask about it, they seem to think that I am out with my great-grandfather's rifle for nostalgia. I love my AR's and use them when appropriate, but everyone should own a "on the down-low" rifle. The .30/30 really shines in this role, but the .357 has some good advantages as well. Here are some good thoughts from Veral Smith of LBT fame:
Veral's Book: "Jacked Performance With Cast bullets":
THIS is something Verryy Verryy practical ... and Extremely deadly!
Those 2 Antelope both dropped at 125 and 302 yards lazered w/ 1 round, each bullet through both shoulders/bones; complete shoot-through. This done with an old "pistol" cartridge. I've never seen a more Completely Efficient use of this cartridge. This System WORKS!
1. THE KEY to this whole system is casting the LBT 187 gr. WFN (Wide Flat Nose) gas check bullet ... Randy Garrett copied the exact bullet shape; his 540 gr. Hammerhead in .45-70 at 1550 fps. will shoot completely through an African Cape Buffalo and kill the one behind it.
If you DO NOT cast your own bullets at present, you CAN order this bullet from Cast Performance Bullets: --- HOWEVER: Cast Performance DOES NOT use LBT Lube, THEREFORE, users will run into pressure problems at lower temperatures and with lighter loads than when using LBT lube. Accuracy will not be as good either. Montana Bullet Works sells them lubed with LBT Commercial lube and they'll deliver top notch performance.
NO PROBLEM shooting clean through say 4 to 6 bad guys with this 187 gr. LBT bullet depending on circumstances, any bones hit, etc., as it has already shot lengthwise completely through Elk. This .357 Magnum system is in reality a "mini-mini Garret .45-70 type set up".
Research revealed:
** You DO NOT want this combo in a .44 Magnum because:
a. It would be about double the ammo weight And size ...and so you'd carry Easily Twice the .357 rounds.
b. Not needed.
c. Excessive recoil in a big way in this M94 configuration w/ 325gr+ gr. bullets. (Like an 8lb. 30/06).
** With this 187 gr. LBT bullet you get 8% to 20% less pressure at the same velocity/output as a jacketed bullet.
** In casting, use 10 lbs. wheelweights w/ 1 TBL. of high antimony shot -- water drop them.
** About 400% more penetration than a jacketed bullet in any realistic medium from live flesh to ballistic gelatin to wet saturated newspapers with inter-spaced bones.
** The LBT Stays nose-on with no yaw while traveling through flesh or liquid medium until it goes subsonic at the least.
** 25% tighter groups. 20% more wound cavitation.
** 80% less cost than jacketed bullets or better if you cast your own.
1. Approx. 17 grns. H-110 or 296 will yield about 1920 fps. in an 18" barrel. (Work up from maybe 16.5gr. or so).
Use MAGNUM PISTOL primers and crimp the bullet.
2. .357 Mag. brass is Everywhere and cheap as dirt; everybody has it. Sometimes its free.
3. No bullets to buy; you cast your own (you will have to buy Hornady gas checks).
4. Recoil Wayyyy less than a .243/.22-250 and the report is QUIET QUIET QUIET.
5. At 17 grns. of H-110 (or 296), a can of powder goes a Lonnggg way -- 411 rounds.
6. The rounds are about Half the size, weight and maybe 1/5 the recoil of a .44 Mag. In a Grab N' Go you could Easily have over 300 rounds with you -- No Sweat, AND control your environment to easily beyond 350 yards.
7. You have a short, light, accurate, fast firing carbine holding 10 rounds w/ no recoil-induced bullet back-out problems in a spring cushioned magazine tube. You DO WANT the Marlin Model 94 as it will reliably feed this bullet, and you can clean it from the breech. It will weigh 8 lbs. fully loaded with Scoutscope mounted, OR, you can mount say a Burris Fullfield II Riflescope 2X-7X.
8. Compare this .35 caliber bullet, shape, weight, velocity, penetration, recoil, cost, and effectiveness against say a .30-30.
9. I would guess that Most of today's shooters/hunters/riflemen have Very Little idea of what can be accomplished with lead bullet technology similar to what was used 2 centuries ago. You look around and you don't see any more Buffalo wandering about.
10. THIS IS A SERIOUS, DEADLY, EFFICIENT, ALL-ROUND SYSTEM!
You could employ this carbine system say to a town's population of females from young girls 10 years of age on up, (even young girls will LOVE shooting this rifle) who have been taught only basic Riflecraft and Mindset... and have an unbelievable force to be reckoned with. It is an AWESOME combination for either hunting, or, for urban warfare if needed.
It is unbelievably deadly and it is accurate, zilch recoil and QUIET QUIET QUIET. This combination has shot lengthwise completely through Elk up in Idaho; this bullet is the KEY to this combination to be able to have such capabilities. The bullet Ballistic Coefficient is .187, the B.C. being run as a G-1 drag model.
You can easily be effective to 300 yards with this combination, and it looks plebeian and Totally Innocent. 10 rounds of this as fast as you need to shoot and as fast as you can work that lever and shoot...its Fast!
THIS SYSTEM WORKS!!
11. All of this, in a simple "innocent, plebeian, ho-hum" looking piece at an inexpensive price that is "legal" even in places like the Peoples Republik of New Jersey or California.
Interesting to say the least...is your Marlin a conventional rifled or microgroove barrel?
Nice Rossi, my 20 inch blued R92 is a keeper as well. Lots of lever love here!
halfmoonclip
10-14-20, 10:37
Hadn't thot' about Marlin 'micro-groove' rifling in a long time. Mine has always been fed jackets.
The .45 Colts all get lead, but then they are Winchesters.
Moon
ETA- Live in a currently free state, but wouldn't feel too badly armed with a lever, push come to shove.
M
Mrgunsngear
10-19-20, 07:55
Lever actions are no slouch and can certainly perform the home defense role just fine IMO.
https://youtu.be/X8x3xsg4BhI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8SHPYTdPh0&t=363s
halfmoonclip
10-19-20, 12:17
Before we get too comfortable about retaining our lever and pump action firearms, it is my understanding that the Aussies banned virtually any sort of repeater. Our levers will be construed as 'assault weapons' as well if we don't act on Election Day.
Moon
Gallo Pazzesco
10-20-20, 13:16
Yep ... I've got quite a few Marlins but if I had to choose one for home defense it would be my 1894P shorty trapper in 44 Mag/44 Special loaded with 44 Special. It's so broken-in and I've popped so many pigs with it over the years using 44 Mag, that the 44 Specials almost feel like 22LR and I get two extra rounds in the tube to boot.
Still, my Virtus in 300 BLK 11.5" with the Lehigh Max Expansion 194 grain pills is my go-to in home defense pistol and once my Thunder Chicken is cleared it'll only be better.
I would not feel undergunned with the 1894P though. It's slicker than owl poop. I've actually been thinking about putting an enlarged loop lever on it so I might get more than three fingers in the loop. It's been fine for pigs but if I really had to go to town with it, adrenaline and all, I could rack it faster with a larger loop given the size of my hands.
halfmoonclip
10-21-20, 20:08
My Marlin started life with a 20" barrel, and I had it whacked to 16". Handles better in brush, and what we always called the "Conrail Load" (stop a locomotive) was showing 1600'sec in the carbine...yet I never thot' it had punishing recoil. Loaded it down slightly for our daughter to take a deer, and she didn't complain about kick.
Moon
This has also been an interesting topic to me for a while now. My idea is to have a 16” 30-30 platform that I can thread a suppressor on instead of messing with 300BLK. Guessing it would be quieter to boot with no action noise. I have a 40+ year old Marlin 30-30 but the barrel is too thin to do this with so I assume I’ll either need to rebarrel it (not sure how possible that is) + do all the necessary work on the action and add a rail for an optic or just get a new host...which is my question...is that Marlin Dark series posted earlier the only game in town for a project like this?
This has also been an interesting topic to me for a while now. My idea is to have a 16” 30-30 platform that I can thread a suppressor on instead of messing with 300BLK. Guessing it would be quieter to boot with no action noise. I have a 40+ year old Marlin 30-30 but the barrel is too thin to do this with so I assume I’ll either need to rebarrel it (not sure how possible that is) + do all the necessary work on the action and add a rail for an optic or just get a new host...which is my question...is that Marlin Dark series posted earlier the only game in town for a project like this?I believe henry has a tactical model, as does mossberg.
I believe henry has a tactical model, as does mossberg.
Looking over the options from the other companies, looks like the Marlin Dark is the only game for 30-30.
Looking over the options from the other companies, looks like the Marlin Dark is the only game for 30-30.Not even the mossberg 464?
Not even the mossberg 464?
The SPX? Doesn’t seem very ergonomic at all honestly. Looks like hell too lol. I’d actually prefer a more traditional wood stock but just with a rail and threaded barrel. Thank you for pointing me to some options though bud.
The SPX? Doesn’t seem very ergonomic at all honestly. Looks like hell too lol. I’d actually prefer a more traditional wood stock but just with a rail and threaded barrel. Thank you for pointing me to some options though bud.No worries, I don't have one myself, but for $500 it would be a fun truck gun. The marlin's are miles ahead in style though for sure.
hotrodder636
10-25-20, 21:16
Oh man, I like that Marlin Dark. I have been on the fence about getting a Henry Big Boy X in 357/38. After seeing this Marlin now I want one of each!
Looking over the options from the other companies, looks like the Marlin Dark is the only game for 30-30.
Oh man, I like that Marlin Dark. I have been on the fence about getting a Henry Big Boy X in 357/38. After seeing this Marlin now I want one of each!For lots of smiles and easy on the wallet, the Rossi R92 is solid. I have a new iteration (taurus owned now) with a 20 inch blued barrel in .44 mag and it is slick.
The next lever gun I get is gonna be the henry .410, that looks like a hoot, and not bad at all for defense with some slugs.
Well when Remington went bankrupt Ruger bought out the Marlin name and assets. Should be interesting to see what they come out with. If you see a Marlin Dark you like buy it. I suspect it will be awhile before Ruger is pumping out some new lever actions.
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