View Full Version : Bronze star recipient defending his home shot by responders
Pretty tragic. Lawyer indicates the wife gave the police a description of what her husband was wearing and that the bad guy was naked.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-fatally-shoot-resident-shot-home-intruder/story?id=56945256
I know sometimes accidents happen, but I also think about the medical "first, do no harm" thing and wonder if with the shift from peacekeeping to "law enforcement" something like that is needed for officer training.
Feels like there has been a shift, that we see more of what I feel may be questionable shots just because they saw someone with a weapon.
Maybe we just hear about these more now. But this one (and other similar ones) are very troubling.
RetroRevolver77
07-31-18, 21:14
The officer should be charged with manslaughter for failing to identify his target.
Feels like there has been a shift, that we see more of what I feel may be questionable shots just because they saw someone with a weapon.
Maybe we just hear about these more now. But this one (and other similar ones) are very troubling.
I think it's more a shift from people who used to defend their home and property with a firearm to people who just "call the cops / call a lawyer" and let someone else fix their problems.
As a consequence, in some areas, police encounter fewer armed homeowners. But at much as I want LEOs to protect themselves, some "do no harm" training and extra emphasis would probably help at the academy and during the probationary year.
Sounds like the wife did her "due diligence" with the 911 call and this simply should NOT have happened unless the home defender did something really, really wrong like flag the responding officers.
sidewaysil80
07-31-18, 21:40
You know as a cop I tend to look at these things differently and try not judge based on heinsight or facts learned after the fact. With that...
Fry the responding officer. You were given an ID on the homeowner and that he was in the house. Why the hell wouldn’t you id before shooting. This to me is just as bad as that rookie nd’ing out of fear in the NYC stairway and killing someone. Hell, this is almost as bad as the recent video of LA’s finest shooting the hostage along with the attacker.
Bad tactics are bad tactics and bad apples are just that. Tar and feather them for sullying the profession.
You know as a cop I tend to look at these things differently and try not judge based on heinsight or facts learned after the fact. With that...
Fry the responding officer. You were given an ID on the homeowner and that he was in the house. Why the hell wouldn’t you id before shooting. This to me is just as bad as that rookie nd’ing out of fear in the NYC stairway and killing someone. Hell, this is almost as bad as the recent video of LA’s finest shooting the hostage along with the attacker.
Bad tactics are bad tactics and bad apples are just that. Tar and feather them for sullying the profession.
I generally support LE, and I would caution everyone to wait until all the info gets examined, but if what we've been told so far is accurate, and without some very incriminating information on the actions of the homeowner prior to being shot (like pointing his gun at the officers), than I agree completely with the above.
Shoot first, ask questions later is not how LE is supposed to be. Lots of good guys have guns. Sometimes they get used in defense of family or self. Accidental shootings are tragic. Sometimes they are still justifiable, sometimes not. LE should be subject to the same standards as non-LE if the wrong person gets shot, perhaps a higher standard.
To be fair it's before the investigation, not all the facts are known, MMQB, etc.
I just hate to see these for the families involved on both sides.
I'm sure the officer did not wake up that day intending to kill a citizen.
Sure underscores concerns about encountering LEO while armed.
You know as a cop I tend to look at these things differently and try not judge based on heinsight or facts learned after the fact. With that...
Fry the responding officer. You were given an ID on the homeowner and that he was in the house. Why the hell wouldn’t you id before shooting. This to me is just as bad as that rookie nd’ing out of fear in the NYC stairway and killing someone. Hell, this is almost as bad as the recent video of LA’s finest shooting the hostage along with the attacker.
Bad tactics are bad tactics and bad apples are just that. Tar and feather them for sullying the profession.
In general I agree with what you wrote.
Howsomeever, are you refering to the Trader Joe's shooting when you say 'recent video of LA’s finest shooting the hostage along with the attacker?'
IMHO too many trainers don't discuss the ethical aspects of the officer's job.
Officers should internalize and be cognizant of the fact that they taken a job which in all probability will expose them to fluid situations, where they (the officers) will need to face some degree of risk in order to make proper force decisions and therefore, protect the public.
Instead we get the tired dogma 'I'm going home at the end of my shift, no matter what' with no real thought about the ethical aspect of their job.
Coal Dragger
07-31-18, 22:46
Cop involved is clearly an incompetent moron, charge him with murder and then publicly hang his stupid ass. Fire all of the senior police officials on that department too.
The city of Aurora should also pretty much be sued to bankruptcy.
Did the wife’s description of the parties involved make it from 911 to dispatch to the responding LEO’s? In my limited experience the “telephone game” does not alway play out.
Cop involved is clearly an incompetent moron, charge him with murder and then publicly hang his stupid ass. Fire all of the senior police officials on that department too. The city of Aurora should also pretty much be sued to bankruptcy.
And with that, here's the only warning for this thread. This is a discussion forum, not an outrage and hyperbole forum. Discuss the issues please.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-31-18, 23:24
The big issue is that LEOs have to internalize that a gun doesn't equal bad. I understand that makes things more difficult, but it can't be wished away. CCWers need to be cognizant that LEOs are not mind readers. The guy that was shot was a Viet Nam vet with a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star. Not his first rodeo, but probably the first this century. A naked guy just broke into your house, assaulted your teenage kid and you busted a cap into them. Hell, even Marcus Luttrell might be a little distracted at that absurdity and not realize that the LEO crashing through the door isn't clued in.
I don't know what it is, but when I moved to Colorado 13 years ago, I was amazed that pretty much everything bad here happens in Aurora, where this shooting happened. I don't know what it is, but if there is bad headline- dead baby, toddler dead in a couch for weeks, a woman hit by a car and not found for a week. I-225 is cursed- it is always jacked up and goes to a dead stop due to accidents.
Now we have a naked home intruder. Sounds like another drug induced insanity. They paid with their life and they caused a hero to lose his and a cop to ruin his life.
Unfortunately, the mindset of “I’m going home alive tonight no matter what” will rule until departments and cities are sued to the breaking point over bad shoots of innocents. Only when the fiscal pain out weighs the safety expediency will policies and then mindsets change. It seems the departments are getting off scot free by telling juries the shooter officer followed his training (stay alive no matter what) and they accept that as reasonable rather than saying that is poor training and the dept is culpable.
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sidewaysil80
08-01-18, 08:32
In general I agree with what you wrote.
Howsomeever, are you refering to the Trader Joe's shooting when you say 'recent video of LA’s finest shooting the hostage along with the attacker?'
No, unfortunately there was another. This one is egregious...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7.com/amp/video-bodycam-footage-shows-fatal-van-nuys-lapd-shooting/3854861/
Damn.
Is the instance of "bad shoot" actually increasing, or simply more visible due to media/internet?
The killing by cop last winter in Wichita (in which the involved officer was unbelievably exonerated) seemed to point to a REALLY low level of training and/or questionable hiring practices.
Agree with; when the victims families start draining the cities budgets in court- and if the buck actually DID stop at the top, the Chiefs were held accountable- there will be some changes.
dwhitehorne
08-01-18, 16:29
So I’ve been in Training for eight years now and wearing a badge for 24. The priority of going home at the end of your tour is not just blast everyone. It is supposed to be don’t be complacent or go off half cocked doing something stupid. I think a lot of this can be chalked up to 3 things. Access to media/cameras and the ability for the public to view it. I’ve been on some screwed up scenes because everything can go sideways quickly. Another issue is the basic training covers so much that is not actually police work. This has caused the field training to get more and more watered down over the years. Finally with all the stress on Active Shooter with everyone carrying rifles and plate carriers there is definitely a go to guns early mentally being pushed. Many officers currently being hired don’t seem to know when to tone it down. David
No, unfortunately there was another. This one is egregious...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7.com/amp/video-bodycam-footage-shows-fatal-van-nuys-lapd-shooting/3854861/
Okay, your idea of egregious and mine are different.
They actually used fairly good tactics, but doofus didn't play.
I would have taken that shot all day, it was necessary to protect the lady's life. Of course, I practiced for pretty much that same scenario,
The problem was the seventeen other shots, I get that. That is probably a training scar. You need to be able to switch from 'shoot till they drop' to 'shoot and assess' when appropriate.
I don't think the decision to use lethal force was wrong, I would have closed with him to get his attention - eye's on me - as/before I shot.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of trainers out there riding the 'SOF' and 'I've been in shoot out's' pony who may not have nearly as much knowledge as they think they do.
Just as unforunately, a lot of officer's never face such a situation in training, and few have the inclination to press beyond their training.
Her survivors will be paid a settlement, without the benefit of much effort. I hope the attorney's don't rape them.
So I’ve been in Training for eight years now and wearing a badge for 24. The priority of going home at the end of your tour is not just blast everyone. It is supposed to be don’t be complacent or go off half cocked doing something stupid.
That is what it's supposed to be, but the guys I see over and over doing stupid shit - like busting red lights at speed - are the same ones likely to be parroting this. In essence the thought process desired has been corrupted.
I think a lot of this can be chalked up to 3 things. Access to media/cameras and the ability for the public to view it. I’ve been on some screwed up scenes because everything can go sideways quickly. Another issue is the basic training covers so much that is not actually police work. This has caused the field training to get more and more watered down over the years. Finally with all the stress on Active Shooter with everyone carrying rifles and plate carriers there is definitely a go to guns early mentally being pushed. May officers currently being hired don’t seem to know when to tone it down. David
Agreed.
Unfortunately, the mindset of “I’m going home alive tonight no matter what” will rule until departments and cities are sued to the breaking point over bad shoots of innocents. Only when the fiscal pain out weighs the safety expediency will policies and then mindsets change. It seems the departments are getting off scot free by telling juries the shooter officer followed his training (stay alive no matter what) and they accept that as reasonable rather than saying that is poor training and the dept is culpable.
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I disagree. The following is not condoning the shoot as I find things like this abhorrent. I've just never actually heard someone say this in the context given. What I think will happen, and is happening is that we will end up with cops that are more scared of acting than the discipline they get for acting. So, because of inaction, crime increases, we need more cops, more money, and eventually a law enforcement majority in this country that is more security guard than peacekeeper. As people become more and more incapable of acting, calls increase, and then the cycle repeats till we're to the point of having a security guard on every street corner, and yet no better safety or security.
This forum cracks me up sometimes. People preach "wait until the facts are out" and "personal responsibility" yet when a good guy gets killed by accident its straight to "hang em" and "fire everybody" even if they weren't involved.
Its a shitty situation that this guy got killed. As long as humans are involved in law enforcement and military operations, blue on blue incidents are going to happen. We don't have enough information right now to determine what went wrong. Telling 911 something doesnt mean that the officer on the scene is going to get that information, or get correct information.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-01-18, 20:10
Press conference tomorrow with the Chief, who seems only slightly more personable than Agent Strzok. Says that a lot of rumors aren’t true, with out saying what that exactly is Son who was there said he heard Bang-“Police”.
Guy who broke in and was naked is a lifetime criminal that was release on bond by Denver less than 24 hours earlier.
The cop that shot Mr. Black was involved in another shooting less than a month ago.
Like I said, you want a depressing story, look for datelines from Aurora, CO.
This forum cracks me up sometimes. People preach "wait until the facts are out" and "personal responsibility" yet when a good guy gets killed by accident its straight to "hang em" and "fire everybody" even if they weren't involved.
Its a shitty situation that this guy got killed. As long as humans are involved in law enforcement and military operations, blue on blue incidents are going to happen. We don't have enough information right now to determine what went wrong. Telling 911 something doesnt mean that the officer on the scene is going to get that information, or get correct information.
Well stated. The below does not correlate directly with the mentioned incident, but is meant in a generic context that some will still be too ignorant to understand.
I can tell people right now, that being in the right doesn't make much difference when you call the police (or MIL), because when weapons are out on both sides, tensions run high. When weapons are involved, the THREATS ARE ALWAYS DEALT WITH FIRST.
I've been blessed to always run with a professional squad, in both uniforms and careers. The flip side is that I've also been mistaken more than once for a violent suspect, yet I'm still alive after being confronted by LE who didn't know me.
This forum cracks me up sometimes. People preach "wait until the facts are out" and "personal responsibility" yet when a good guy gets killed by accident its straight to "hang em" and "fire everybody" even if they weren't involved.
Its a shitty situation that this guy got killed. As long as humans are involved in law enforcement and military operations, blue on blue incidents are going to happen. We don't have enough information right now to determine what went wrong. Telling 911 something doesnt mean that the officer on the scene is going to get that information, or get correct information.
That's why I used words like "Sounds like" and "IF", and if it is something that the 911 operator didn't pass along, that is going to be really, really terrible.
Even though we probably shouldn't, we have come to depend upon 911 operators as a reliable conduit of information. But armed home defender probably should start from the position of "responding officers might not know anything" and go from there.
I still think there is a market for bathrobes clearly marked "HOMEOWNER - PLEASE DON'T SHOOT."
Telling 911 something doesnt mean that the officer on the scene is going to get that information, or get correct information.
Bears repeating.
That's why I used words like "Sounds like" and "IF", and if it is something that the 911 operator didn't pass along, that is going to be really, really terrible.
Even though we probably shouldn't, we have come to depend upon 911 operators as a reliable conduit of information. But armed home defender probably should start from the position of "responding officers might not know anything" and go from there.
I still think there is a market for bathrobes clearly marked "HOMEOWNER - PLEASE DON'T SHOOT."
Even if you have a world class dispatch system there is still going to be a delay. Even of the info is put out over the radio that doesnt mean the officer is going to hear/process the info over the sirens, screams, and gunshots.
Right now we don't have the full story. It could be a tragic case of mistaken identity or this officer could have really screwed the pooch here. Or anywhere in between.
So how long until we start seeing opportunists from certain corners using this incident as an example of why citizens shouldn't arm themselves and "take the law into their own hands" because it supposedly proves their oft-repeated argument that cops can get confused and shoot the "good guy with a gun" (the phrase usually being said in mocking tones) and instead during home invasions people should "get to a safe area and let the professionals handle things".
The fact that the intruder was literally assaulting a kid in this case might temper that response a bit but I bet we'll hear it at some point.
Or "If the homeowner had just used wasp spray they both would still be alive right now."
Are the family of the naked intruder going to sue the homeowner's estate? I mean their "very good boy" was clearly unarmed when he was shot.... literally nothing would surprise me at this point.
Even though we probably shouldn't, we have come to depend upon 911 operators as a reliable conduit of information.
I make it a point to spend some time in my agency's dispatch center from time to time. The information that comes in to dispatch is spotty at best. They have an incredibly difficult job of keeping a person who, at times, is in full screaming Code Black on the phone to glean information from; then passing on that info in real time to someone like me who is hauling ass to the scene
with my lights and siren going. Realistically, cops arrive on scene of a hot call with about 10-25% of the information we actually need. It's a very high stakes game of telephone with lives on the line. The time delay from when you pick up the phone to call 911, to when it is actually sent out can be a little scary.
Without hearing the 911 call or at least reading the transcript, we have no idea what information responding officers had going to the scene.
Moose-Knuckle
08-02-18, 04:58
Maybe we just hear about these more now. But this one (and other similar ones) are very troubling.
It happens but to the current political climate in our nation only certain incidents make the MSM 24/7 "news" cycle while others are ignored aka they never happened.
Family files lawsuit in police shooting of Fort Worth homeowner
The family of a 72-year-old man fatally shot in his garage by Fort Worth police two years ago — after officers responded to the wrong house on a burglary alarm.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article22350993.html
I think it's more a shift from people who used to defend their home and property with a firearm to people who just "call the cops / call a lawyer" and let someone else fix their problems.
Now . . . now, you're going to tie some panties in a knot around here thinking like that. :cool:
sidewaysil80
08-02-18, 06:20
Okay, your idea of egregious and mine are different.
They actually used fairly good tactics, but doofus didn't play.
I would have taken that shot all day, it was necessary to protect the lady's life. Of course, I practiced for pretty much that same scenario,
The problem was the seventeen other shots, I get that. That is probably a training scar. You need to be able to switch from 'shoot till they drop' to 'shoot and assess' when appropriate.
I don't think the decision to use lethal force was wrong, I would have closed with him to get his attention - eye's on me - as/before I shot.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of trainers out there riding the 'SOF' and 'I've been in shoot out's' pony who may not have nearly as much knowledge as they think they do.
Just as unforunately, a lot of officer's never face such a situation in training, and few have the inclination to press beyond their training.
Her survivors will be paid a settlement, without the benefit of much effort. I hope the attorney's don't rape them.
Imo it never should have turned into a hostage situation. Not to mention they (one of the several) should have gotten that lady out of there when he was walking around. As far as taking the shot, absolutely it was necessary, but only one of the officers had a clean shot. When he took it the other two mooks just followed suit and started shooting. If you search for the incident you can find footage of all three body cams and it shows how bad it was angle and shot wise from the two who killed her. I wasn’t even thinking of the “shoot till down” training scar you mentioned (which is a phenomenal point).
Imo it never should have turned into a hostage situation. Not to mention they (one of the several) should have gotten that lady out of there when he was walking around. As far as taking the shot, absolutely it was necessary, but only one of the officers had a clean shot. When he took it the other two mooks just followed suit and started shooting. If you search for the incident you can find footage of all three body cams and it shows how bad it was angle and shot wise from the two who killed her. I wasn’t even thinking of the “shoot till down” training scar you mentioned (which is a phenomenal point).
Exactly my thoughts. I saw the videos from the other officers and there was no way they had clear shots on the perpetrator- they just started cranking out rounds when the officer who did have a clear shot fired.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-02-18, 10:09
Right now we don't have the full story. It could be a tragic case of mistaken identity or this officer could have really screwed the pooch here. Or anywhere in between.
A guy, in his house, kills an intruder who attacked and tried to kill a family member- and then is shot by responding officers. There is no 'or' in your sentence. That cop screwed the pooch, pretty much the definition of screwing the pooch. People can wave their hands and talk about info or no info, where his hands were, if the cop was thinking about the guy he shot last month. It was a bad shooting. Criminal shooting? Maybe not.
Just saw this:
"Rathod said police fired from outside the home while Black was still inside the home.'
Let's see what the Aurora Chief has to say today.
ETA:
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/man-fatally-shot-by-aurora-police-after-shooting-home-intruder-identified-as-vietnam-veteran
The Mr. Black's wife says that she told 911 and the cops on scene as they were coming up the driveway that the intruder was black and he husband was white.
Family of dead hostage shot by LAPD filed suit:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/totally-and-utterly-preventable-family-of-hostage-killed-by-lapd-files-lawsuit/
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-02-18, 14:48
The intruder who was shot:
Dajon Harper, a 26-year-old known gang member,
Harper has a long criminal history. He was convicted of aggravated motor vehicle theft at age 14,
According to documents obtained by 9Wants to Know, Harper was arrested and convicted multiple times as a juvenile – for theft in 2003, when he would have turned 11, theft and aggravated motor vehicle theft in 2006, and robbery in 2009.
criminal record starting at 18, with charges that include trespassing, distribution of dangerous drugs, child abuse, attempted murder, domestic violence, assaulting a peace officer and theft.
Harper first entered the state prison system as an adult in 2012 after a conviction of possession of a weapon by a previous offender, according to state DOC records. That began a series of – he was released on parole later that year, moved back into a community corrections center in 2013, released on parole again, accused of absconding, put back in jail and finally finished his sentence in that case in October 2013.
He went to prison again in 2014 after being convicted of menacing, was paroled in 2016, had his parole revoked in 2017 and was released from prison Feb. 14.
The local news last night had that some of these charges were plead down from attempted murder.
News gets worse... Apparently the vet was handcuffed after being shot with the implication there was no first aid.
Perp's mom was in the house yelling
Son indicating all the cases recovered were outside the house and that the shots were from outside into the doorway.
Then the kids dad and wife of the shot vet were put in the same room with the dead perps family...
Supposedly the officers had bodycams, going to be interesting to see the footage. But still tragic regardless.
Well stated. The below does not correlate directly with the mentioned incident, but is meant in a generic context that some will still be too ignorant to understand.
I can tell people right now, that being in the right doesn't make much difference when you call the police (or MIL), because when weapons are out on both sides, tensions run high. When weapons are involved, the THREATS ARE ALWAYS DEALT WITH FIRST.
I've been blessed to always run with a professional squad, in both uniforms and careers. The flip side is that I've also been mistaken more than once for a violent suspect, yet I'm still alive after being confronted by LE who didn't know me.
I dunno, “intruder in a suburban house” seems somewhat straightforward, at least to the extent that likely a majority of the people encountered on scene will NOT be the ones who might need to be shot.
I dunno, “intruder in a suburban house” seems somewhat straightforward, at least to the extent that likely a majority of the people encountered on scene will NOT be the ones who might need to be shot.
My last good friend at the PD retired last year so I don’t know any of the officers anymore or what type of training they are getting. But it seems to me, at least in the incidents that make the news, it is like shoot first and figure it out later. Guy with a gun (or perceived gun)= bad guy, light him up. If I had shot everyone I encountered with a weapon everyone on this board would know me by first name.
wilson1911
08-03-18, 02:12
I read he shined his flashlight at the officer...officer tells him to put down the weapon from outside....noncompliance...officer then shoots guy with gun. Vet is supposed to have bad hearing ??? and if he just wrestled with a guy in the bathroom and fired several shots....I know my ears would be ringing like hell.
The chief is calling it a good shoot ? based on him not complying ??
Rule #1 don't call the police until its all over.
Rule #2 If you do make that call either you kill the perp...or he is going get you...or the officer will.
I watched the vid in cali with the hostage....I was speechless when they all started shooting.
Moose-Knuckle
08-03-18, 05:30
The intruder who was shot:
Dajon Harper, a 26-year-old known gang member,
Harper has a long criminal history. He was convicted of aggravated motor vehicle theft at age 14,
According to documents obtained by 9Wants to Know, Harper was arrested and convicted multiple times as a juvenile – for theft in 2003, when he would have turned 11, theft and aggravated motor vehicle theft in 2006, and robbery in 2009.
criminal record starting at 18, with charges that include trespassing, distribution of dangerous drugs, child abuse, attempted murder, domestic violence, assaulting a peace officer and theft.
Harper first entered the state prison system as an adult in 2012 after a conviction of possession of a weapon by a previous offender, according to state DOC records. That began a series of – he was released on parole later that year, moved back into a community corrections center in 2013, released on parole again, accused of absconding, put back in jail and finally finished his sentence in that case in October 2013.
He went to prison again in 2014 after being convicted of menacing, was paroled in 2016, had his parole revoked in 2017 and was released from prison Feb. 14.
The local news last night had that some of these charges were plead down from attempted murder.
I ain't uh shoot'n a no ones over my TeeVeh or muh propuhtee! :sarcastic:
I suppose the naked gentleman could have let himself into the home to tell them about the good news of Joseph Smith, or sign them up as his Amway downline, or ask to borrow a cup of sugar, or . . .
I read he shined his flashlight at the officer...officer tells him to put down the weapon from outside....noncompliance...officer then shoots guy with gun. Vet is supposed to have bad hearing ??? and if he just wrestled with a guy in the bathroom and fired several shots....I know my ears would be ringing like hell.
The chief is calling it a good shoot ? based on him not complying ??
Rule #1 don't call the police until its all over.
Rule #2 If you do make that call either you kill the perp...or he is going get you...or the officer will.
I watched the vid in cali with the hostage....I was speechless when they all started shooting.
I'll never understand why someone would take the time to place a phone call and play twenty questions with dispatch until AFTER they secured their residence to ensure their families wellbeing. Unless your a childless bachelor living in Wayne Manor I don't see how anyone has the luxury of time, space, and distance not to give it the the old "locate, close with, and destroy" errr I mean ask them politely to vacate the premises.
If I ever have to shoot someone in my house, I’ll be calling 911 from an undisclosed location.
I’ll have ServPro clean up the mess.
Moose-Knuckle
08-03-18, 14:59
I’ll have ServPro clean up the mess.
Once upon a time a former colleague of mine and I were tossing around the idea of starting a biohazard cleanup service.
$$$$$$
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-03-18, 15:02
Once upon a time a former colleague of mine and I were tossing around the idea of starting a biohazard cleanup service.
$$$$$$
Billing, yes.
Collecting, probably not so much ;)
The money would be in the book you could write afterwards.
Once upon a time a former colleague of mine and I were tossing around the idea of starting a biohazard cleanup service.
$$$$$$
Ick. There's not enough money in the world for me to want to spend my days in a rubber suit scraping dried brains off of drywall. :suicide::suicide2::bad:
I think it's more a shift from people who used to defend their home and property with a firearm to people who just "call the cops / call a lawyer" and let someone else fix their problems.
As a consequence, in some areas, police encounter fewer armed homeowners. But at much as I want LEOs to protect themselves, some "do no harm" training and extra emphasis would probably help at the academy and during the probationary year.
Sounds like the wife did her "due diligence" with the 911 call and this simply should NOT have happened unless the home defender did something really, really wrong like flag the responding officers.
Yup. Let's see the bodycam footage.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-03-18, 16:22
There is some weird dynamic between the family, the Chief and the DA that I don't understand. We don't have the body cams footage because of the DA, says the Chief.
Why would the DA hold onto it if it weren't because he thinks that he might charge someone?
Once upon a time a former colleague of mine and I were tossing around the idea of starting a biohazard cleanup service.
$$$$$$
Not a bad gig.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wWmRTjLRMfU
Moose-Knuckle
08-04-18, 05:10
Not a bad gig.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wWmRTjLRMfU
Marvin!!!!!
What can I say, I've always had a strong stomach.
Can't even tell you how many times I helped someone clean up feces, blood to include menstrual blood, vomit, gangrenous tissue, urine, et al. out of the back of their squads or a cell. The city I worked for once said F-it and condemned a house where a hoarder had died and been decomposing for the summer. No clean up needed just send in the dozer.
Kind of similar to circles one find themselves traveling in, not only did we know some guys making coin off bio cleanup but knew a guy who was an MD turned repoman due to the cash flow. Him and his brother had the sweetest sleeper rig that could pull up right next to a car. They wore body armor and had 360° audio/video system on their truck.
There is all kind of mad side hustles out there for the taking.
There is some weird dynamic between the family, the Chief and the DA that I don't understand. We don't have the body cams footage because of the DA, says the Chief.
Why would the DA hold onto it if it weren't because he thinks that he might charge someone?
Probably what's happening. Hold the video until after the grand jury to make sure the jury isn't tainted. They did the same thing here for the Mesa officers bad shoot.
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