View Full Version : NRA is in deep kimchee if this can be believed
Doc Safari
08-03-18, 14:07
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/nra-financial-trouble-706371/
The National Rifle Association warns that it is in grave financial jeopardy, according to a recent court filing obtained by Rolling Stone, and that it could soon “be unable to exist… or pursue its advocacy mission.” (Read the NRA’s legal complaint at the bottom of this story.)
The reason, according to the NRA filing, is not its deep entanglement with alleged Russian agents like Maria Butina. Instead, the gun group has been suing New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and the state’s financial regulators since May, claiming the NRA has been subject to a state-led “blacklisting campaign” that has inflicted “tens of millions of dollars in damages.”
In the new document — an amended complaint filed in U.S. District Court in late July — the NRA says it cannot access financial services essential to its operations and is facing “irrecoverable loss and irreparable harm.”
Specifically, the NRA warns that it has lost insurance coverage — endangering day-to-day operations. “Insurance coverage is necessary for the NRA to continue its existence,” the complaint reads. Without general liability coverage, it adds, the “NRA cannot maintain its physical premises, convene off-site meetings and events, operate educational programs … or hold rallies, conventions and assemblies.”
The complaint says the NRA’s video streaming service and magazines may soon shut down.
“The NRA’s inability to obtain insurance in connection with media liability raises risks that are especially acute; if insurers remain afraid to transact with the NRA, there is a substantial risk that NRATV will be forced to cease operating.” The group also warns it “could be forced to cease circulation of various print publications and magazines.”
The lawsuit presents these financial risks as catastrophic. Without access to routine banking services, the NRA claims, “it will be unable to exist as a not-for-profit or pursue its advocacy mission.” The lawsuit accuses New York’s government of seeking to “silence one of America’s oldest constitutional rights advocates,” pleading to the court: “If their abuses are not enjoined, they will soon, substantially, succeed.”
The lawsuit stems from actions taken by New York financial regulators to halt the sale of an illegal, NRA-branded insurance policy. The NRA actively marketed “Carry Guard,” a policy to reimburse members for legal costs incurred after firing a legal gun. In May, the state of New York found that Carry Guard “unlawfully provided liability insurance to gun owners for certain acts of intentional wrongdoing.” The NRA’s insurance partners agreed to stop selling the policies and pay a $7 million fine.
The NRA complaint alleges that New York was not content to block this single insurance product, but instead campaigned to sever the NRA’s ties to a wide range of financial service providers, from insurance companies to banks.
The NRA did not respond to a request for more detail about its financial distress, but its most recent financial disclosure also shows it overspent by nearly $46 million in 2016.
In the filing, the NRA reveals that its longtime insurer broke off negotiations this winter and “stated that it was unwilling to renew coverage at any price.” [Emphasis in original.] The NRA claims it “has encountered serious difficulties obtaining corporate insurance coverage to replace coverage withdrawn.” In addition, the NRA contends that “multiple banks” have now balked at doing business with it “based on concerns that any involvement with the NRA — even providing the organization with basic depository services — would expose them to regulatory reprisals.”
The lawsuit seeks an immediate injunction to block state authorities from “interfering with, terminating, or diminishing any of the NRA’s contracts and/or business relationships with any organizations.” Without court intervention, the complaint reads, “the NRA will suffer irrecoverable loss and irreparable harm if it is unable to acquire insurance or other banking services due to Defendants’ actions.”
My take: The gun grabbers will literally try anything to disarm the American people. Love or hate the NRA, without them the Second Amendment might have ended a long time ago.
Can anyone believe an article by the Rolling Stone?
Doc Safari
08-03-18, 14:43
Can anyone believe an article by the Rolling Stone?
That's why I titled the thread the way I did. I'm not sure I believe this either, but I wouldn't put it past the left to have finally landed the knockout blow they've been looking for.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-03-18, 15:10
I read it and see a game plan for dealing with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Put those bastards out of business.
Is the NRA talking about this? Seems like a great rallying point. Maybe they are leaving it for closer to the election?
How about having the feds jump up and down on the NYAGs head? Imagine if some state AG went after the UNCF because it is racist.
Can anyone believe an article by the Rolling Stone?
Nope. About as reliable as 4chan for information.
Deleted- My original response was incorrect and it is too late at night to write a coherent analysis of this issue.
It's not just Rolling Stone, it's being reported by several news outlets as well.
platoonDaddy
08-04-18, 08:18
Former NRA president (Pete Brownell) left the organization after serving two years of his three year term. Here is a brief overview.
In 2017, Pete Brownell was elected NRA president for a 3-year term. I believe he should have been NRA president through 2019, or possibly into 2020. When he announced he was leaving, the NRA First Vice President informed the board that he had other commitments and wasn't available to serve as the interim NRA president. (This is also a bit curious.) The Board then asked the Second Vice President to serve as its interim president until Oliver North could fill the remaining portion of Brownell's term.
Brownell said he was leaving to focus on his business. I’m wondering if this was the real reason. The NRA has focused on the incoming president, Oliver North, and have said virtually nothing about Brownell’s departure.
Did he brake the bank? !!
RetroRevolver77
08-04-18, 08:48
Does this only affect the NRA in New York or the entire country?
PatrioticDisorder
08-04-18, 08:56
Does this only affect the NRA in New York or the entire country?
If the NRA ceases to exist, I’d say it has national ramifications.
I have successfully isolated myself from the NRA solicitation machinery but it's hard to believe that such a dire event wouldn't be used by the NRA for a massively ramped-up donation campaign and associated publicity.
Seems to me the NRA should do a couple of things here, 1. Get out of the insurance business.. that was a mistake from day one."Carry Guard"or what ever they call it was/is lousy, period. 2. Drop the lawsuits, the state of New York will string this along for as long as it takes, they have way more money than the NRA does, as this whole thing is designed from the ground up to drain the NRA of money, it was a trap, and they walked right into it.. 3. Move NRA headquarters to some place more friendly, the east coast of this country is turning into a commie shithole, let's get serious they have little support in the Washington DC area.. 4. Seriously consider getting rid of Ollie North as NRA president, making him NRA president was a stupid idea, while we're at it, I think It's time to give Wayne Lapeirre the boot, too.. If the NRA does fold, there's Gun Owner Of America, I'm sure they'd be glad to step up and take the NRA's place, at least they don't get all squishy when you mention AR 15's, AK 47's etc like the NRA used to, and they seem to handle money alot better, at least they're not calling me 3-4 times a week like the NRA has been lately...
LMT Shooter
08-04-18, 11:03
I'm a Life Member, but I've long felt that the NRA puts great effort into putting fear in its members & potential members. They take a threat, or potential threat, and make it seem FAR larger & more likely than it really is. I may be wrong, but for now that's how I view this story, another chapter in the "send us your money or loose your guns" book.
I do understand that there has been, are now, and will continue to be, real threats to our Second Amendment rights that would have eroded or taken away our rights without the NRA, hence my Life Membership.
I'm a Life Member, but I've long felt that the NRA puts great effort into putting fear in its members & potential members. They take a threat, or potential threat, and make it seem FAR larger & more likely than it really is. I may be wrong, but for now that's how I view this story, another chapter in the "send us your money or loose your guns" book.
I do understand that there has been, are now, and will continue to be, real threats to our Second Amendment rights that would have eroded or taken away our rights without the NRA, hence my Life Membership.
I think you're right..If there's one thing the NRA is really good at is fear mongering, in this case, one really,really, has to consider the source..Rolling Stone magazine..you can't get much more left-tard commie than them. If anything, the NRA has made a series of bad choices lately, and they need to make some changes to how they operate, and like I said Wayne, Ollie, and a few others need to go. I just joined GOA, they may not be as big as the NRA, but I figure it would'nt hurt to support them either..
The_War_Wagon
08-04-18, 12:18
Can anyone believe an article by the Rolling Stone?
Ahhhh... smoking their own printer's ink again, I see. :rolleyes:
Well I think it's mighty NICE of them to help fundraise for the NRA. Because libtards BEST-laid plans, ALWAYS have the OPPOSITE effect. :sarcastic:
RetroRevolver77
08-04-18, 14:52
Has NRA made any press releases on this matter? Are they really that far in the red over fighting New York for insurance purposes?
hotrodder636
08-04-18, 15:30
I hope this is not true. Love them or hate them, they are our biggest and strongest public advocacy group.
Waiting to see if they issue a press release.
Interesting coincidence. There’s a prostest at NRA Headquarters the day this hit the news.
morbidbattlecry
08-04-18, 16:12
Seems to me the NRA should do a couple of things here, 1. Get out of the insurance business.. that was a mistake from day one."Carry Guard"or what ever they call it was/is lousy, period. 2. Drop the lawsuits, the state of New York will string this along for as long as it takes, they have way more money than the NRA does, as this whole thing is designed from the ground up to drain the NRA of money, it was a trap, and they walked right into it.. 3. Move NRA headquarters to some place more friendly, the east coast of this country is turning into a commie shithole, let's get serious they have little support in the Washington DC area.. 4. Seriously consider getting rid of Ollie North as NRA president, making him NRA president was a stupid idea, while we're at it, I think It's time to give Wayne Lapeirre the boot, too.. If the NRA does fold, there's Gun Owner Of America, I'm sure they'd be glad to step up and take the NRA's place, at least they don't get all squishy when you mention AR 15's, AK 47's etc like the NRA used to, and they seem to handle money alot better, at least they're not calling me 3-4 times a week like the NRA has been lately...
110% agree with you. The should get out of politics and focus on guns only. Well gun politics only.
sundance435
08-04-18, 17:47
I'm a Life Member, but I've long felt that the NRA puts great effort into putting fear in its members & potential members. They take a threat, or potential threat, and make it seem FAR larger & more likely than it really is. I may be wrong, but for now that's how I view this story, another chapter in the "send us your money or loose your guns" book.
I do understand that there has been, are now, and will continue to be, real threats to our Second Amendment rights that would have eroded or taken away our rights without the NRA, hence my Life Membership.
Yeah, for the last 6 years or so, their act has been wearing on me. Maybe there's no other way to rally a sizeable number of people, but I have to think you can only cry wolf so many times before many of those same people tune you out.
I hope this is not true. Love them or hate them, they are our biggest and strongest public advocacy group.
Waiting to see if they issue a press release.
I'm probably stating the obvious, but that's also part of the problem. The corporation dictates what their strategy is going to be, not the members. They have enormous power to influence the future of gun rights and we're beholden to "their" (the organization) will. I like that GOA is in the fight to claw back 2A rights, but they go pretty far out in left field sometimes on the rationale for some of their positions that it kind of annoys me. Sometimes they act like caller #3 to Alex Jones.
LMT Shooter
08-04-18, 23:12
..... there's no other way to rally a sizeable number of people.....
100% correct. Sex & fear are the two most powerful motivations for all God's creatures.
sundance435
08-05-18, 01:07
100% correct. Sex & fear are the two most powerful motivations for all God's creatures.
I wouldn't be opposed to an NRA calendar with skimpily-clad women wielding muskets and/or ARs.
If this is true, the problems they face as read this are two fold. Unable to continue insurance and access banking.
I can solve the banking problems, I have 2 clients that own huge private banks. I am sure they would love to have the NRA deposit money with them.
Straight Shooter
08-05-18, 09:15
If this is true, the problems they face as read this are two fold. Unable to continue insurance and access banking.
I can solve the banking problems, I have 2 clients that own huge private banks. I am sure they would love to have the NRA deposit money with them.
Can you or they, contact the NRA and make them an offer?
Anyone have contact info for the top people at the NRA?
Anyone have contact info for the top people at the NRA?
I think this is a big general issue--the NRA is such a huge bureaucracy that no one has contact info for the top people and the top people are very removed to the point that no one can give them feedback--like advising them to drop Ted Nugent from their board for his stupidity.
MountainRaven
08-05-18, 21:16
I'm sure there are a number of Senators, Reps, and lobbyists in DC who have Wayne LaPierre's phone number somewhere.
sadly if folks think our 2nd is gone without the NRA then we are way more hosed then we think !!!
IMHO they are good to have and also a huge target for the left which is fine as it draws fire and can take it
without it ? I do think something else will come up other movements and so on but as far as hard core lobbyists ? no idea how it will impact
but that again goes back to our gov and what it has become that we need to get rid of all lobbyists and any type of lobbying
I think this is a big general issue--the NRA is such a huge bureaucracy that no one has contact info for the top people and the top people are very removed to the point that no one can give them feedback--like advising them to drop Ted Nugent from their board for his stupidity.
One of our candidates for Governor, Kris Kobach, appeared with Nugent at a gathering, we'll see how that works for him.
I think this is a big general issue--the NRA is such a huge bureaucracy that no one has contact info for the top people and the top people are very removed to the point that no one can give them feedback--like advising them to drop Ted Nugent from their board for his stupidity.
Which is why I asked if anyone has a direct line to some of the top people. I get most of my business based on relationships. I network and never cold call. Of course being the CEO of the only Mossad based firm in the USA, helps in a big way.
Grand58742
08-06-18, 07:50
If you haven't done so already, I'd visit the source docs located on that RS article page. I tend to think the NRA has a case and Cuomo can't keep his mouth shut about it.
If he used government agencies to intimidate and scare private businesses into complying, they'll win that suit easily.
Which is why I asked if anyone has a direct line to some of the top people. I get most of my business based on relationships. I network and never cold call. Of course being the CEO of the only Mossad based firm in the USA, helps in a big way.
We really need a “like” button.
My two thoughts are, IF the finances were that grave, the MSM would be running wild with this by now. Sorry, rolling stoned is not even qualified for fake news. They are the JV to the JV, and... I think there are a LOT more people like yoni that will come running IF this turns out to be true.
If the NRA really is threatened with failure, it will be a massive boost for the conservatives in the next elections. Talk about a get out the vote campaign.
Not that they aren't biased but MAC is running with this and linking to a USA Today article.
Personally, I don't understand why if the NRA is about to collapse, why haven't they been begging for more money??
Through gross mismanagement and dodgy business practices like the NRA's underhanded launching of Carry Guard and then, without warning, kicking USCCA (the originals) out of NRAAM, have come back to haunt them as they're nearly in financial ruin (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/03/nra-faces-financial-crisis-claims-might-unable-exist/902918002/).*
That, and they continue to backstab gun owners by backing horrific laws such as the "red flag" laws Chris Cox recently came out in support of (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sNiklO506A).*
Karma is a bitch, and the NRA is reaping what it has sewn.*
Outside of that, we, the members, are making waves still by demanding reform. Adam Kraut has been making runs for the BoD and he has the support of many of us.*
The blight on Florida and our gun rights, Marion Hammer, calls those of us trying to salvage the NRA from total ruin the "enemy from within". She's the same "pro-gun" former NRA president and lobbyist who said the NRA never wanted us to have machine guns and has backed horrible legislation in Florida.*
We want to stop the NRA's constant surrendering of our rights and the strong arm tactics against other organizations that fight for our rights by bringing reform to the horribly mismanaged organization that is ripe with corruption. (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/01/robert-farago/nra-history-revisited/)
Adam and many of his supporters continue to push for reform. We want to end the corruption, stop the surrendering of our rights and make the NRA our strongest advocate for our rights. Here's another news article about our collective efforts and the work Adam Kraut is doing.*
https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2018-08-05/hardline-us-gundamentalists-pressure-nra-from-within
Not that they aren't biased but MAC is running with this and linking to a USA Today article.
Personally, I don't understand why if the NRA is about to collapse, why haven't they been begging for more money??
The issue is not money, it's access to banking and business insurance services.
If they were in financial trouble. I would expect to see my mailbox overrun with donation begging.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-06-18, 20:24
For all the screaming about how Trump is trying to implement a dictator state, Cuomo comes pretty close to trying to do that with this war on the NRA. It seems that the main premise of his attack is that CarryGuard is a 'license to murder'. As if it protects you and gives you immunity from prosecution? He thinks that if you carry and gun and have this insurance, the only reason is so that you can shoot people with impunity.
Does that mean that having drivers insurance is a green light to drive drunk and kill people?
Do Doctors have medical malpractice insurance so they can screw up operations and kill people?
How convenient that the NRA is a major supporter of the party that is his opponent? How about the fact that if you carry a gun for self defense in places like NY, you are highly likely to be charged even in the case of a good shoot in self defense. So they write the laws and run the courts against your ability to defend your life- and now they want to take away you ability to defend yourself in court after the shooting.
They want you to be victimized by the assailant and if that doesn't kill you, they'll financially ruin you and try to put you in jail.
Wait a minute- isn't one of the complaints about gun owners is that they DON'T have insurance?
So Cuomo is using his office and the courts to cut off the funding of one of his major political adversaries and their supporters. Imagine if Oklahoma tried to do that with planned parenthood? Abortions and defending yourself are both legal actions.
For all the screaming about how Trump is trying to implement a dictator state, Cuomo comes pretty close to trying to do that with this war on the NRA. It seems that the main premise of his attack is that CarryGuard is a 'license to murder'. As if it protects you and gives you immunity from prosecution? He thinks that if you carry and gun and have this insurance, the only reason is so that you can shoot people with impunity.
Does that mean that having drivers insurance is a green light to drive drunk and kill people?
Do Doctors have medical malpractice insurance so they can screw up operations and kill people?
Exactly right.
This article sums it up nicely: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/08/new-york-nra-second-amendment-first-amendment-attack/
To make part of a long story short, the chairman of Lockton Insurance Brokerage confided to the NRA that "Lockton would need to “drop” the NRA — entirely — for fear of “losing [our] license” to do business in New York."
Lockton Ins brokerage was fined by the NY State Insurance commission $7 million for offering Carrysafe Ins in NY State. The state of New York claimed that Carry Guard “unlawfully provided liability insurance to gun owners for certain acts of intentional wrongdoing.” The NRA’s insurance partner, Lockton Insurance, which is an insurance broker, agreed to stop selling the policies and pay a $7 million fine.
Elsewhere I read that one of the conditions was that Lockton was to cease doing business with the NRA: From https://nypost.com/2018/08/03/nra-says-its-broke-and-on-the-verge-of-collapse/ "A state agency told insurers to cut ties with the association and slapped a $7 million fine on NRA insurance broker Lockton Companies."
Telling the insurers to cut ties with the NRA seems to me to be outside of the scope of regulatory powers of the NY State Insurance commission--especially when it applies to any activities that take place out of NY State.
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