View Full Version : Bench or Prone?
I have trouble with Semi-Auto precision from the bench.
Prone, I have little difficulty getting behind the gun, loading bi-pod, follow through- or staying with the shot.
All of the above are more difficult, or at least for me, require a hell of a lot more focus shooting from a bench rest.
I do not regularly shoot as well, as tight groups, from bench as from prone.
I am first to admit I am not a world class precision shooter. Too many years of M. O. "A" zone, quickly.
However, I shoot bolt guns from the bench close to their potential. As example I have a .223 Sako and 700 in .22/250 ( they've been bedded/floated/trigger work) that I can regularly shoot <3/8" to 1/4" 5 shot groups.
Semi Precision guns I have a tendency to shoot 5 rds.; 4 rds. into a cloverleaf, or at least a tight group (not necessarily shots 1 through 4) and blow the 5 rd. group with a flier- from the bench.
Again, shooting prone- I don't have this as a major problem.
I understand a semi-auto is more complex in achieving a high degree of precision than a bolt gun- too many "parts" slamming around that ultimately must return to their original position.
My question then; what is your preference shooting precision semi-auto, bench/prone?
And further; are you equally capable from both positions?
My friend I am exactly in the same boat. I used to shoot bench better, but that was when I only shot out to 300 ish. I don't think you can load nearly as good on a bench. Which I feel is much more important with a gas gun. Especially in larger caliber stuff, ie my MWS in 308.
And following the shots off a bench, don't get me started. That gun jumps like a kangaroo and I'm like ' where did it go" .
Prone rheins supreme for me.
PB
Thank you PB.
I’m relieved to hear that from you.
Prone for me as well. I can't get the gun to stop jumping on the bench with a bipod. The range I shoot at has a concrete pad so its difficult to load the bipod, I sometimes use a sand bag to push against. Either way, I find shooting from prone easier and more accurate.
nightchief
08-06-18, 22:02
Prone for me too...I cannot shoot worth a darn off a bench. 100 yards or 600 yards makes no difference. Very unnatural position for me. I hate it when forced to shoot from a bench to sight in someplace that won’t allow the shooters to shoot prone.
NC
Prone for the more manageable recoiling rifles is definitely the way to go. I realize that this is a semi-automatic sub forum, but prone with big bore rifles is not very fun. 375 h+h and larger requires bench and maybe shooting sticks for cartridges over 460 weatherby.
Prone for the more manageable recoiling rifles is definitely the way to go. I realize that this is a semi-automatic sub forum, but prone with big bore rifles is not very fun. 375 h+h and larger requires bench and maybe shooting sticks for cartridges over 460 weatherby.
I'm the opposite. I hate shooting anything with a thump off of the bench.
Yeah.
One of my least favorite things is load work up/dial in with a thumper from the bench.
Had a .450 Alaskan barrel installed on an old, roached m71 Winchester. The stocks like an old '86 with a pistol grip, so it has a lot of drop- which accentuates recoil.
400-500 gr. bullets at 2400/2100 FPS are pretty bad for 50 rds off a bench.
I also shoot better from prone, but I grew tired and sore of laying on the ground. Now I try from the bench. But I also feel it important to be able to shoot from any supported position, at least. I’ve given up on shooting groups, and instead go for single dot shots, if I want to go for precision. Or I shoot my 1/4 sized silhouette..
Your body position is much different. Your are more "on the gun" while prone and "behind" while benching. Try sitting higher on the bench seat, you are almost leaning over it more so and getting closer to mimicking the prone. Problem usually is bench height and seat level, It's been years since I shot from a bench, I used to sit on one leg to raise my height.
Yeah, heavy calibers are not fun prone, I mean heavy ones like mentioned. When I check my slugs, I use sticks or barricade.
I had a discussion with nongshim, an sme here on the boards, a couple years ago about shooting positions. He provided me this link, which has changed how I build my shooting positions, especially with gas guns: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html
I stopped using my offhand to support the rear of the stock, and now have it on the handguard or magwell (depending on position) helping to pull the rifle into my shoulder, and my consistency has gone way up. I also prefer to use larger front bags as opposed to bipods whenever possible.
My LMT mws was notorious for shooting fliers. With this new technique it started shooting nice groups on paper, and I had much more success ringing steel at longer distances.
Lately I've been shooting my scar 17 a lot, and it's giving me sub moa performance with minimal effort and good ammo. And I think that's the biggest thing: It's far less of a struggle to get the accuracy I expect and know the rifle is capable of, instead of wondering why there was a flyer.
I had a discussion with nongshim, an sme here on the boards, a couple years ago about shooting positions. He provided me this link, which has changed how I build my shooting positions, especially with gas guns: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html
I stopped using my offhand to support the rear of the stock, and now have it on the handguard or magwell (depending on position) helping to pull the rifle into my shoulder, and my consistency has gone way up. I also prefer to use larger front bags as opposed to bipods whenever possible.
My LMT mws was notorious for shooting fliers. With this new technique it started shooting nice groups on paper, and I had much more success ringing steel at longer distances.
Pappabear and I need to explore this.
vicious_cb
10-06-18, 11:36
I had a discussion with nongshim, an sme here on the boards, a couple years ago about shooting positions. He provided me this link, which has changed how I build my shooting positions, especially with gas guns: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html
I stopped using my offhand to support the rear of the stock, and now have it on the handguard or magwell (depending on position) helping to pull the rifle into my shoulder, and my consistency has gone way up. I also prefer to use larger front bags as opposed to bipods whenever possible.
My LMT mws was notorious for shooting fliers. With this new technique it started shooting nice groups on paper, and I had much more success ringing steel at longer distances.
Lately I've been shooting my scar 17 a lot, and it's giving me sub moa performance with minimal effort and good ammo. And I think that's the biggest thing: It's far less of a struggle to get the accuracy I expect and know the rifle is capable of, instead of wondering why there was a flyer.
Does the LMT like a lot of front loading or a neutral load? Ive found the SCAR to do better neutrally loaded than front loading like the SR-25 FOW.
Does the LMT like a lot of front loading or a neutral load? Ive found the SCAR to do better neutrally loaded than front loading like the SR-25 FOW.
The mws shoots better (for me) off a big soft front bag or backpack. I never had good results with harris, atlas, or kac bipods.
Nongshim's advice to me was use less bipods, more bags/backpacks, and it has made a huge difference for me with gas guns.
I use a bipod and rear squeeze bag for groups. Prone, I dig the bipod in. On the bench, I lay a towel, coat, or something else bulky underneath the bipod to prevent bounce or movement. Running around, I use a backpack or bipod depending on what's up.
I perceive that I shoot better groups from the bench than prone.
I shot this group from the bench on Friday as described above. LT Stealth, 100yds, a little over .6". There were a few more that were about .8".
54043
The bench feels unnatural to me and awkward. My groups don’t seem to suffer too much, but I’m much happier prone. I shoot at Fudd ranges sometimes that ONLY allow bench, so I keep a Carhart jacket in my truck, and roll it up or put it on top of a rifle case or ammo can or whatever object I have laying around in my truck. 20 rnd mags can be beneficial, also. I need to buy some more of those.
FWIW (anecdotal), I have used rifles in the real world more from low walls, over rocks, out a window, crouched in ditches, standing inside a Stryker (out a hatch), etc. than I have prone. So its probably not a bad idea to practice from a bench, with its awkward height.
I prefer to shoot off a pack when bench shooting. I do shoot with a bipod from time to time. I have a section of 2x4 and two c-clamps that I afix to the bench top to provide solid listing of the bipod. I generally only use this when messing with loads.
I prefer to shoot off a pack when bench shooting. I do shoot with a bipod from time to time. I have a section of 2x4 and two c-clamps that I afix to the bench top to provide solid listing of the bipod. I generally only use this when messing with loads.I tried the 2x4 clamp method and found that if it wasn't in perfect alignment perpendicular with the target it would cause uneven tension on the bipod and thus fliers. I have had much better success with a more neutral bipod with just the tiniest loading, making sure I used a quality heavy rear bag and taking time building that natural point of aim on target before shooting and letting the rifle recoil more freely back. The challenge with bipods is of course being consistent in loading while simultaneously keeping the stock in the shoulder pocket firmly. Takes some practice and experimentation for sure.
making sure I used a quality heavy rear bag and taking time building that natural point of aim
A good rear bag is huge. A bad one is worthless. We run a Heavy & Hard leather target rear bag for shooting groups, and a medium/softer bag for running shots down range.
A good rear bag is huge. A bad one is worthless. We run a Heavy & Hard leather target rear bag for shooting groups, and a medium/softer bag for running shots down range.Switching to a protektor leather bag with heavy chromite sand has been a tremendous improvement over my cheap fabric bags. I even baby powder the leather a bit to allow the stock to slide nicely in the ears.
Kansaswoodguy
12-06-18, 16:37
Bullsbag in the front, rabbit ear protektor in the rear. If I do use a bipod which is rare I have a 1/2” rubber pad I put under its hard feet that makes huge difference shooting off the bench.
Switching to a protektor leather bag with heavy chromite sand has been a tremendous improvement over my cheap fabric bags. I even baby powder the leather a bit to allow the stock to slide nicely in the ears.
I used to do that shooting benchrest with the Thompson Center .22 pistol. If you didn't, the gun would torque on the bag, caused 1/8"-3/16" deviation at 25
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