View Full Version : Gun Zen?
I'm sure we've all done it. Opened the safe and said damn, do I have too many guns? I'm going through one of those periods where I look at the stuff I haven't shot for a little while and think sell, sell, sell. I analyze why I haven't shot said gun and away it goes. I have some untouchables that will never be sold but everything else ebbs and flows with my whims. So a couple of questions exist for me:
How many guns is too many?
What does gun zen look like for you?
For me gun zen is probably something like this:
1911 in 45
9mm duty sized weapon
9mm carry, same make and model as the duty gun
Two AR's, a 12.5" with RDS and an 18" SPRish build
An Arsenal AK
Bolt gun in a 6.5 caliber
Two shotguns, one security type, another field type
Cheers.
I have children that are very interested in carrying on my love of shooting. There is no guarantee that they will be able to purchase what we have been blessed with. There can never be too many firearms for them.
Edited to add that I agree with your list of firearms. I would add a 22lr.
I've gone through that several times. Sold some only to later want one again and spend more money buying! Or I can't buy them now because it's unabtanium. And now I'm looking at some of the stuff I have and wondering do I really need that one?
Don't know what Zen would look like since my interests are in more than just modern defense firearms
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Ideally for me:
Fun guns- AK, Irons AR, and 1911
Use guns:
2 g19s (main ccw/Fullsize gun of choice)
1 shield(NPE carry gun of choice)
1 14.5-16” ar with lpv optic
1 small AR/rifle of choice and rds
1 long range bolt or gas gun with good glass (308, 6.5, 300 winmag, etc)
1 silencer for pistol
1 mini 556 silencer
1 308/300 silencer
1 shotgun
1 22 rifle
What is ideal for you depends on your situation
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-15-18, 09:41
My buddy that really got me into guns said that for every gun you need a purpose- like an actual activity; hunting, a competition, training- something. That said I have a few guns that even devoid of any rational reason, I'd never get rid of:
HK PSP
Browning Hi-Power
Colt Gold Cup
Most everything else has a price on it, though with the gun grabbing not over yet, I'm reticent to part with my LMt MWS or any mags. I still have a bunch of 226 mags and no 226 guns...
Doc Safari
08-15-18, 09:44
1. M4 for serious SHTF work, home defense, the barbarian hordes coming over the ridge, etc.
2. Full-size handgun for leaving by the nightstand, and for when society becomes so dangerous you open carry without worrying what anybody thinks
3. Pocket sized auto for travel, CCW, etc.
Never really thought about it in that way, I've opened up the safe and thought "I'd like to trade that Mossberg 500 out for an older Remington 870 or a Benelli M4, replace the aluminum framed 1911 with a steel one, the Weatherby .270 for a custom built bolt gun in 6.5 CM" stuff like that. I'll think about what purchases I would have made over the years had I the knowledge then that I do now. But no, never thought I had too many guns.
RetroRevolver77
08-15-18, 11:06
See I don't want a large collection when I die. I think the biggest thing is having a nice well rounded collection and it all fits into whatever you feel you are comfortable with. So for instance, for me, everything will eventually fit in one safe. Get rid of unsupported weapons or items no longer in production that have no emotional value and stick with more common firearms to acquire components and parts. Also consider the type of environment the future might be, it could turn into some Orwellian nightmare so at least try to give your relatives weapons that are more tactical than Fudd.
Here's a koan for you.
The more guns you own, the more you realize you don't have very many guns.
Doc Safari
08-15-18, 14:10
Here's a koan for you.
The more guns you own, the more you realize you don't have very many guns.
I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Zen, but if I understand the concept, the perfect "Zen" philosophy with regard to guns is "Two is One; One is None."
I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Zen, but if I understand the concept, the perfect "Zen" philosophy with regard to guns is "Two is One; One is None."
It's actually easier than that.
When I was a kid, I thought I needed a 1911, A Luger, a P-38 and a Webley to satisfy my WWII handgun collection. But in the course of obtaining those I realized I didn't have a Nambu, a Tokarev and half a dozen other handguns. And when I got those I realized there were a lot of Luger variants and one could spend all their time trying to collect just those.
And so it goes with just about any collection. I used to think I'd just need "one AK" to satisfy my Cold War weapons collection, then I realized I needed a Type 3 to have a true AK-47 as well as an AKM and that I'd also need a AK74 variant. I'd also have to get several varieties of fixed and folding stocks as well.
So while I currently have a collection twice as large as anything I ever imagined I'd want or need, I'm still not even half done if money and opportunity presents itself.
Also I'm a curator as well as a collector, I have guns that belonged to my grandfather and one day they will all be given to a family member. So even if I wanted to distill my collection to practical size, I could never do it.
But within my collection I do have a category of work guns, and I'm trying not to let it get out of hand, I simply have a lot of options should the need arise.
Moose-Knuckle
08-15-18, 14:38
Confucius say; "Firearms like trim, there is no such thing as too many".
ETA:
But within my collection I do have a category of work guns, and I'm trying not to let it get out of hand, I simply have a lot of options should the need arise.
Actual footage of an attempted home invasion at Steyr's house . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcsLaSBWG9k
Doc Safari
08-15-18, 14:47
It's actually easier than that.
When I was a kid, I thought I needed a 1911, A Luger, a P-38 and a Webley to satisfy my WWII handgun collection. But in the course of obtaining those I realized I didn't have a Nambu, a Tokarev and half a dozen other handguns. And when I got those I realized there were a lot of Luger variants and one could spend all their time trying to collect just those.
And so it goes with just about any collection. I used to think I'd just need "one AK" to satisfy my Cold War weapons collection, then I realized I needed a Type 3 to have a true AK-47 as well as an AKM and that I'd also need a AK74 variant. I'd also have to get several varieties of fixed and folding stocks as well.
So while I currently have a collection twice as large as anything I ever imagined I'd want or need, I'm still not even half done if money and opportunity presents itself.
Also I'm a curator as well as a collector, I have guns that belonged to my grandfather and one day they will all be given to a family member. So even if I wanted to distill my collection to practical size, I could never do it.
But within my collection I do have a category of work guns, and I'm trying not to let it get out of hand, I simply have a lot of options should the need arise.
I'd love to see your house--er--museum one day. :cool:
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-15-18, 15:25
Here's a koan for you.
The more guns you own, the more you realize you don't have very many guns.
The point of no return is when someone asks you about your guns and you tell them, and then a minute later you tell them about the guns you forgot. After that, it's down hill. Like asking one of us how many ARs we have; in 556 or other calibers- complete rifles, orphan uppers or stripped lowers included?
Doc Safari
08-15-18, 15:32
I was just reminded of something very "Zen" about firearms.
It was something taught to me at a tender age. I meditated upon its meaning, even laughing at the concept. The more I pondered, though, the more I knew it was correct. Don't ask me how a person's mental gymnastics accomplish it. Is there something metaphysical at work or is it just better concentration?
At any rate: there is one zen concept as it relates to firearms that I find absolutely to be true....
....You will shoot much better once you can learn to "become" the bullet.
militarymoron
08-15-18, 17:03
I'm sure we've all done it. Opened the safe and said damn, do I have too many guns? I'm going through one of those periods where I look at the stuff I haven't shot for a little while and think sell, sell, sell.
Yeah, I'll open my safe and see guns I haven't shot in a while. But then I'll take them out and shoot them, and it renews my interest in them. For example, I've been shooting a lot of 9mm over the past few years, simply because it's cheaper and when taking classes, easier to make par times on drills with quicker follow-up shots. However, just over the past year, my interest in my 1911's was renewed so I've been shooting a lot more .45 lately.
I also have a Glock 24C in .40 that I hadn't shot in almost a decade. But since I've got quite a lot of .40 ammo for that single pistol, I've been taking it to the range with the .45s every time and enjoying it. The G24C upper swaps out with the G17 upper on my full size Polymer80 frame without an ejector change, and so far, 100% reliability.
I seldom sell guns because I never know when my interests will change, plus as others have said, I don't know what will be available further down the road. Another good example is my Colt SP1, which I took apart years ago and put more 'modern' components on. The slick-side upper receiver sat in my parts box for years since carry handle ARs were long out of vogue. I had actually put it on the EE for sale, but it didn't move, which was great because the retro bug hit me and I used it to build my retro-ish GAU-5A.
My gun zen is basically owning guns that I've wanted since I was a kid, or growing up. They make me happy.
RetroRevolver77
08-15-18, 17:21
My biggest problem is what to do with all the ammo. If I shot it all it would take a me a few years of real dedication but then I'd probably die of lead exposure.
It's hard to have too many guns and too much ammo. My list of wants is obviously much bigger than the list of needs. Heck, I want just about every firearm I lay eyes on other than lorcin's, Hi-points, etc. But that isn't going to happen.
I try to take a minimalist approach now-a-days. 2 of each flavor that I feel I need for specific roles and a few that are just fun to have on top of that.
It's funny, a "lot" of guns is such a relative thing. Same goes for ammo.
I get into conversations with folks who have 10-20 guns and think thats a "lot", and some who have 2-5 and think that is a lot. Some with 100's who think they don't have enough.
Funny how that works.
....You will shoot much better once you can learn to "become" the bullet.
Archers are reminded it is the arrow and not the bow that is the actual weapon.
My biggest problem is what to do with all the ammo. If I shot it all it would take a me a few years of real dedication but then I'd probably die of lead exposure.
IE: How am I ever going to count all this money?
Not going to say how long I've been at this, but reading one of Jeff Cooper's very first books in high school lit the fire. My Mom and Dad gave me a GI 1911 ($25!) for Christmas.
The hobby's been good to me. Went into LE which paid the bills, and let me buy a gun now and then. My interests waxed and waned over the years, and it's been fun. Now starting to thin the herd and will keep the favorites. Some of which are NIB and some of which have no finish left.
Opening the safe and viewing the contents is like a leisurely trip down memory lane with old friends.
pointblank4445
08-15-18, 22:22
In the first 30 years of being an avid shooter and collector and wannabe historian, I wanted to get my hands on everything...and pretty much did within reason. That flexibility was only possible if I was able to trade/sell certain items.
After starting into LE and competition where I was able to differentiate varying skill levels, I've said to hell with breaking the bank in trying to be a curator, and I'm all about efficiency and practicality. Sure...I still have fun/impractical guns but their portion of the pie is far, far smaller now. I have no kids and no blood relatives interested in taking up my passion so the buck stops with me.
Nothing goes to the auction/sale block without at least one full day at the range before the final decision is made. Lord knows I've had too many rash ideas thought up late at night to go through with a sale without "shooting on it" first.
The AUG's, FALs, HK 9x's, custom AK's, Sigs, Benelli M4's, $3000+ rare/custom pistols are a thing of the past. Purposeful precision rifles, carbines and pistols are the mainstay...
That's how I'm approaching my zen...very similar to you OP. Increasing in skill level has been far more satisfying than mere ownership.
I pretty much operate on the one is none, two is one theory. I have a carry gun and an identical second one. That way if one breaks I can just grab the other. Same with AR-15's. For hunting rifles I have a .22LR, a 7-08,a 30-06 and a .375 H&H.. covers all the Alaska bases. I have a single 870 pump. I am boring. That is the sum total of my current inventory. I have tons of ammo that gets cycled through the Glock 19's and AR to stay proficient. I've never been interested in collecting or being a curator. Nor do I really care about custom firearms.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-16-18, 00:13
Archers are reminded it is the arrow and not the bow that is the actual weapon.
It’s really the archer it self that’s the actual weapon.
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Interesting and varied responses which is what I expected. The mindset is definitely different for everyone. Mine currently is less is more. And I am trying to extend that to my life in general as well. I'm thinking smaller house, no car payment, less possessions, less hoarding of junk I don't use.
And so it goes with just about any collection. I used to think I'd just need "one AK" to satisfy my Cold War weapons collection, then I realized I needed a Type 3 to have a true AK-47 as well as an AKM and that I'd also need a AK74 variant. I'd also have to get several varieties of fixed and folding stocks as well.
So while I currently have a collection twice as large as anything I ever imagined I'd want or need, I'm still not even half done if money and opportunity presents itself.
Also I'm a curator as well as a collector, I have guns that belonged to my grandfather and one day they will all be given to a family member. So even if I wanted to distill my collection to practical size, I could never do it.
But within my collection I do have a category of work guns, and I'm trying not to let it get out of hand, I simply have a lot of options should the need arise.
That's the rabbit hole I started to go down with AR's, one for every type of shooting. Then I built a 12.5" gun and started banging steel at 650 with it and a 1-6x scope. It made me question why I needed multiple AR's. Handy enough for run n gun, accurate enough for distance.
I have never been much of a collector of anything. As much as I love historical guns, I would feel bad shooting them so never got the collecting bug. A Garand might be the exception as vintage rifle matches seem like fun.
Actual footage of an attempted home invasion at Steyr's house . . .
Magazine! Yeah!
Yeah, I'll open my safe and see guns I haven't shot in a while. But then I'll take them out and shoot them, and it renews my interest in them.
I seldom sell guns because I never know when my interests will change, plus as others have said, I don't know what will be available further down the road.
By the time I have not shot a gun in a while, I have usually made my mind up. The availability thing is a very valid point. I procrastinated for years on buying an AK and bought an Arsenal right before the election to be sure I could have one.
Bottom line, there are no wrong answers in this thread.
Cheers.
It’s really the archer it self that’s the actual weapon.
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The archer goes flying into the chest of the enemy? I know what you are going after, and it's true to a degree, but you missed the main point.
I’ve thought about this quite a few times. As I meet other gun guys, they always have a lot of guns, but very little ammo, and shoot very little. For me, zen is: two AR’s two CCW pistols.
In the near future I’ll be getting two G19 for training and carry. Right now, I have a G26, but I like the bigger 19. I also have two AR’s. One SBR, one 16” for longer range.
I don’t see the need in having a gun I don’t shoot. A hunting rifle is also in my future soon. Besides that, I’ve always wanted a M14..just because. That may be my first rifle I buy without a real “purpose.”
Here's a koan for you.
The more guns you own, the more you realize you don't have very many guns.
It’s funny. The more guns I own the more I realize I want to own less and actually have come to mildly hate them. I enjoy shooting and carrying a gun for a living but it’s s never ending money pit.
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Mr. Goodtimes
08-16-18, 07:16
It’s funny. The more guns I own the more I realize I want to own less and actually have come to mildly hate them. I enjoy shooting and carrying a gun for a living but it’s s never ending money pit.
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This is word.
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Like at this point I want half a dozen turnkey 5.56 gats that are endarkment ready and IR capable. A couple dedicated suppressed shorties. A couple other basic M4A1 pattern sticks with Acogs for general use. And a 308. That’s it.
Past that I want LA5s and BNVDs
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I just kinda stumble into a lot of my guns. Don't have a need or a big desire for a Glock 22/23 but when one is under $300, new, with night sights and several mags .....well....why the hell not. Didn't want to spend a lot of money on a good 1911 and didn't want to buy the cheap stuff either just to say I have one so I never had a 1911. But when I stumbled onto a $650 TRP that was a no brainier. Two tone USP 45 with mags, $375. Walther P1 with a dozen mags $350....etc.. That's how I have most of my guns.
The only thing I could never get into was parts and accessories, aside from the bare minimum like mags and holsters. Can't deal with uppers and lowers and stocks...etc . If I want a specific firearm I find one and buy it.
I just kinda stumble into a lot of my guns. Don't have a need or a big desire for a Glock 22/23 but when one is under $300, new, with night sights and several mags .....well....why the hell not. Didn't want to spend a lot of money on a good 1911 and didn't want to buy the cheap stuff either just to say I have one so I never had a 1911. But when I stumbled onto a $650 TRP that was a no brainier. Two tone USP 45 with mags, $375. Walther P1 with a dozen mags $350....etc.. That's how I have most of my guns.
The only thing I could never get into was parts and accessories, aside from the bare minimum like mags and holsters. Can't deal with uppers and lowers and stocks...etc . If I want a specific firearm I find one and buy it.
Can I go gun shopping with you?
Absolutely
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It’s funny. The more guns I own the more I realize I want to own less and actually have come to mildly hate them. I enjoy shooting and carrying a gun for a living but it’s s never ending money pit.
This is mostly where I find myself these days as well. Unfortunately, I haven't made much traction in paring down.
It’s funny. The more guns I own the more I realize I want to own less and actually have come to mildly hate them. I enjoy shooting and carrying a gun for a living but it’s s never ending money pit.
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Seems easy enough to fix. Any time I become "uninterested" in any firearm I usually don't have any trouble getting what I paid for it. I usually wait before elections to unload the stuff I don't want anymore.
Gun zen: more transferable MGs.
Moose-Knuckle
08-17-18, 05:12
It's funny, a "lot" of guns is such a relative thing. Same goes for ammo.
I get into conversations with folks who have 10-20 guns and think thats a "lot", and some who have 2-5 and think that is a lot. Some with 100's who think they don't have enough.
Funny how that works.
I love reading headlines on news sites after some lone-wolf is arrested for an unrelated crime or an old hermit dies and the police who perform a welfare check find an "ARSENAL OF WEAPONS" and the guy has less than ten firearms pictured laid out on the couch. :lol:
Moose-Knuckle
08-17-18, 05:31
Interesting and varied responses which is what I expected. The mindset is definitely different for everyone. Mine currently is less is more. And I am trying to extend that to my life in general as well. I'm thinking smaller house, no car payment, less possessions, less hoarding of junk I don't use.
"The more things you own, the more they own you."
I'm in my 30's and have zero student loans, zero cc debt, own my vehicles, and live in an absurdly reasonable home.
This is some Zen woke AF truth Tsar Bomba right here . . .
NSFW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI
I love reading headlines on news sites after some lone-wolf is arrested for an unrelated crime or an old hermit dies and the police who perform a welfare check find an "ARSENAL OF WEAPONS" and the guy has less than ten firearms pictured laid out on the couch. [emoji38]Or they're all WW1 rifles, break open single shot shotguns and 22lr riflss
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"The more things you own, the more they own you."
I'm in my 30's and have zero student loans, zero cc debt, own my vehicles, and live in an absurdly reasonable home.
This is some Zen woke AF truth Tsar Bomba right here . . .
NSFW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPIThats a great spot to be in!
Love that scene and is really what I am working towards; f*ck you money. Everyone has their idea of what that is but mine is quite modest. Love the quote too, nothing truer if you let it own. Life events will always drive you and this year has been more than instrumental in my thinking.
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