View Full Version : DD MFR/DDM4 Rail?
dirkmagurk
08-16-18, 12:16
Has anyone here experienced their Daniel Defense MFR/DDM4 rail loosening and canting over time or with hard use? After looking over my 15" MFR I noticed that the anti-rotation tabs have a significant gap between them and the receiver. I haven't subjected mine to hard use yet but it seems over time the rail could develop a cant. Any helpful information from actual experience is greatly appreciated! I am asking because I'm thinking of picking up one of their 11.5" uppers with either the MFR MLOK or DDM4 quad rail.
I don't own one but evidently you are not the first >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQOa5B_66oY&feature=youtu.be&t=1m25s
justin_247
08-16-18, 14:46
Has anyone here experienced their Daniel Defense MFR/DDM4 rail loosening and canting over time or with hard use? After looking over my 15" MFR I noticed that the anti-rotation tabs have a significant gap between them and the receiver. I haven't subjected mine to hard use yet but it seems over time the rail could develop a cant. Any helpful information from actual experience is greatly appreciated! I am asking because I'm thinking of picking up one of their 11.5" uppers with either the MFR MLOK or DDM4 quad rail.
Yes, they have a gap. They aren't truly "anti-rotation" tabs... they're more designed to keep the rail from completely rotating if it does come lose if the poo hits the fan (this is why you should never bridge optics across rails). The original DD Lite rail didn't have any anti-rotation tabs at all.
If it's installed correctly, you should never need them. Many other companies have rails with similarly designed "anti-rotation" tabs that never touch the upper receiver.
dirkmagurk
08-16-18, 16:19
I don't own one but evidently you are not the first >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQOa5B_66oY&feature=youtu.be&t=1m25s
Damn that is exactly what I was thinking could happen. It's a shame because everything else about my upper is quality. I have the LW barreled version and it is very close to shooting MOA with the right ammo and they actually pin their gas blocks!
dirkmagurk
08-16-18, 16:26
Yes, they have a gap. They aren't truly "anti-rotation" tabs... they're more designed to keep the rail from completely rotating if it does come lose if the poo hits the fan (this is why you should never bridge optics across rails). The original DD Lite rail didn't have any anti-rotation tabs at all.
If it's installed correctly, you should never need them. Many other companies have rails with similarly designed "anti-rotation" tabs that never touch the upper receiver.
This is the first free float rail system I've seen with such a big gap between the tabs and upper receiver. I know better than to mount optics across a non monolithic railed upper, my concern is throwing off my BUIS zero. I'm one of the weirdos that still trains with irons to stay proficent in the rare event they are needed.
justin_247
08-16-18, 18:38
This is the first free float rail system I've seen with such a big gap between the tabs and upper receiver. I know better than to mount optics across a non monolithic railed upper, my concern is throwing off my BUIS zero. I'm one of the weirdos that still trains with irons to stay proficent in the rare event they are needed.
I'm not saying it's the best system, but I think you can trust it. I certainly wouldn't go buying a whole new upper or swapping out a rail because of the concern unless you have a problem with it yourself. Take a white marker and draw little indexing lines on the screws, and then you can check to make sure the lines are aligned each time you clean the weapon. That should prevent any potential problems from developing.
In the future... if BUIS is really a huge deal for you, I'd avoid using rail-mounted BUIS entirely, and instead go with some kind of fixed setup with a front sight post pinned to the barrel. At that point, what kind of rail or handguard you choose depends on what kinds of accessories you want to use with it.
Finestkind
08-22-18, 15:47
I will trust a Daniel over many other rifles any day of the week.
Finestkind
What do you plan to do with it? My DDM4V7 with the original MFR is knocking on 10,000 rounds down the pipe now and is a veteran of two RedBack One classes, a Frank Proctor class and a half dozen local classes. Zero issues with the that MFR holding zero with irons. Just my experience with a sample of one. If you want a no bull shit not likely to ever fail iron sight rifle, get one with a FSB front sight.
Beat Trash
08-23-18, 08:08
Between myself, my wife and my son, we have 4 DD rifles with MFR rails on them. Two of the guns are factory built DDM4V7's, and two are factory built DDm4V5's that I swapped out the quad rail for the MFR rail once they were available. One of these has been my Patrol Rifle as an inter-city LEO Canine unit supervisor for the last couple of years. My work gun gets banged around a bit, especially when going along as the cover officer on a canine track. One of these rifles has been in Nome Alaska for the last 18 months. Not abused, but not babied either. Zero issues with the MFR rails so far. And at this point, I don't expect there to be any issues.
On the two guns that I had swapped out the quad rails for the MFR rails, I made sure to clean the hardware and apply a dab of blue lock tight during the installation. On the other two guns, I just checked to ensure the hardware was tight when inspecting the new guns. All of these guns run some type of optic with BUIS.
If I wanted a gun that was to be used with just iron sights and remained as durable as possible, then I'd take one of my Colt 6920's and put the factory carry handle back on the gun.
dirkmagurk
08-23-18, 12:28
I appreciate the feedback from everyone and I completely understand that having a FSB is the most rock solid option if running irons. I have a few rifles setup with fixed FSB/gasblocks but they are older builds and my preferences have changed. I now run primarily MLOK free float rails with a X300 mounted at 1200 with fixed front sight and folding rear for use with an Aimpoint in a lower 1/3 QD mount. I've never really introduced myself or given any of my background on this forum but I am active duty with plenty of small arms experience. I have maintained and trained sailors and marines in the use of everything from the M9/M11 to the M2 ma deuce. I am by no means an "operator" and I only say this to avoid the responses that are basic information that any of us with experience are well aware of. I contacted DD and asked about possible issues with this bolt up system. The DD tech told me there were some early samples that had issues with canting due to not leaving the factory properly torqued. I am a huge fan of Daniel Defense and have faith in their products. I only started this thread because I have never seen a gap this size between the "anti-rotation tabs" and upper and was curious if anyone had an issue with it before.
"Has anyone here experienced their Daniel Defense MFR/DDM4 rail loosening and canting over time or with hard use? After looking over my 15" MFR I noticed that the anti-rotation tabs have a significant gap between them and the receiver. I haven't subjected mine to hard use yet but it seems over time the rail could develop a cant. Any helpful information from actual experience is greatly appreciated! I am asking because I'm thinking of picking up one of their 11.5" uppers with either the MFR MLOK or DDM4 quad rail"
I am with the others, I will trust Daniel to take care of any issues I have. OP, can you post pictures to show us the canted rail?
Reading through the OP I don't see where he said there was a cant yet, just that the anti-rotation tabs don't contact the upper on either side, which is common.
"Has anyone here experienced their Daniel Defense MFR/DDM4 rail loosening and canting over time or with hard use? After looking over my 15" MFR I noticed that the anti-rotation tabs have a significant gap between them and the receiver. I haven't subjected mine to hard use yet but it seems over time the rail could develop a cant. Any helpful information from actual experience is greatly appreciated! I am asking because I'm thinking of picking up one of their 11.5" uppers with either the MFR MLOK or DDM4 quad rail"
justin_247
08-25-18, 09:18
Not trying to be obtuse. but the OP mentions Canting twice in his post. So, I am thinking he is asking about future canting or possible issues relating to canting and related issues. I am also thinking that if your DD firearm has a proprietary rail that has gotten that bad, then Daniel will replace it. So, if this is this case, maybe he could contact DD, and see what they say. I have purchased three DD rifles, and they have been very good to me. Although, I have yet to have any issues that OP mentions. Pictures if possible, from anybody with this related issue would also help all of us, especially DD owners like myself. Because if this is an issue on a DD rifle, I want to be aware of it as a DD owner myself.
He says absolutely nothing about his rail being canted. He's just concerned that it may develop due to the anti-rotation tab design.
Marler5811
08-31-18, 10:34
OP,
Sorry that you've had an issue with your handguard. Sounds like they weren't tightened properly. I have some newer fasteners that I think you'll like. Shoot me an email with your address and I'll get some sent your way ASAP. jmarler@danieldefense.com.
S/F
Joe
OP,
Sorry that you've had an issue with your handguard. Sounds like they weren't tightened properly. I have some newer fasteners that I think you'll like. Shoot me an email with your address and I'll get some sent your way ASAP. jmarler@danieldefense.com.
S/F
Joe
When are you guys going to start making the front of this rail square, and get rid of that swoosh cut?
Marler5811
09-04-18, 09:35
When are you guys going to start making the front of this rail square, and get rid of that swoosh cut?
As far as I know, we don't have any plans to change it.
That rail would be a lot better without the underbite. I probably would have bought it ober the Geissele MK14 had it been cut square. Leave the goofy stuff to Warsport and the likes.
TexasAggie2005
09-04-18, 11:40
Just outta curiosity, why the animosity for the "underbite / swoosh cut"? Does it effect performance, interfere with suppressors, etc? Or is just a looks thing?
As far as I know, we don't have any plans to change it.
Then I would consider making the change.
It is hurting your sales.
You had the opportunity to lead the market on MLOK/Keymod with this rail and blew it.
Just outta curiosity, why the animosity for the "underbite / swoosh cut"? Does it effect performance, interfere with suppressors, etc? Or is just a looks thing?
Because I want a flat front rail with evenly spaced slots like a URX4. Not a bunch of styling.
I want decide where I am going mount accessories, not have some company decide it for me.
That rail cut away on the top wastes valuable top rail space when trying to squeeze a front sight, IR laser, and switches all on the top rail.
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