Is Magtech 77 OTM the same as IMI 77

[backpacker]

Sorry, hearing different things. Is the Magtech 77 SMK OTM (MK262 clone) in the green box the same bullet as the IMI 77 SMK OTM LR MOD1 Razorcore?
I know they both say SMK, but in gel they seem to expand/fragment differently. I feel like the IMI is a different bullet.

Is the CBC magtech 77 SMK a good defense round for a 10.3" barrel? and anyone have velocities for that barrel length?

Thank you

[Furbyballer]

I have not had the same accuracy from the magtech as I have from the imi. In fact, I have stopped buying the 77 grain magtech as it just doesn't shoot as well through my rifles.

However, with that being said, I would not recommend mk262 from a 10.5in barrel anyways. You want a 55 grain or 62 grain gold dot or hornady tap round. Basically some sort of soft point with a lower velocity expansion threshold and as much speed as you can coax from that short barrel. Rule of thumb for me is 12.5in barrels and longer get 62 grain and up and 11.5in barrels and shorter get 64 grain and down with sbr specific designed soft points. The 262 will have unreliable expansion from a 10.5 barrel.

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[1168]

I’ve been curious about IMI 77 grain, but everytime I google it I find threads on TOS complaining about popped primers. Anybody here shooting it out of a 5.56 chamber? Or a Noveske match or .223 Wylde chamber?

[markm]

The 262 will have unreliable expansion from a 10.5 barrel.


262 is ideal out of short barrels. That's one of it's great characteristics. And 262 doesn't expand... it fragments. I would never pick a light projo to run out of my 10.5-11.5s.

[Wake27]

There’s another thread going on about MK262 and it’s military usage right now, may be worth checking out though it’s more about the BH loading than the clones.

But I always understood that 262 performed well regardless of barrel length. It’s only significant downside is barrier penetration but you trade that off for solid long range performance (from a 5.56 anyways) and bulk pricing/availability due to the clones.


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[markm]

But I always understood that 262 performed well regardless of barrel length. It’s only significant downside is barrier penetration but you trade that off for solid long range performance

The awesome SBR performance is why I run it. I'm kinda on the fence about the need for barrier penetration for non-Patrol. Is it really necessary? Or is it like having a tourniquet strapped to your civilian plate carrier?

[Wake27]

The awesome SBR performance is why I run it. I'm kinda on the fence about the need for barrier penetration for non-Patrol. Is it really necessary? Or is it like having a tourniquet strapped to your civilian plate carrier?

I have literally zero experience to back this up, but I assume that a round like 262 that lacks barrier penetration could be compensated for in a similar manner as shooting a pistol round through a windshield - put several rounds on target and the barrier won’t matter as much.

Again, that’s pure speculation on my part. Either way though, I just don’t foresee having to shoot through barriers too much. Bad guys with body armor is still pretty rare, and at least for me, I can’t drive around with a loaded AR in the car so the chances that I’ll have to shoot through a vehicle is pretty low.

I do not think it’s at all unnecessary to have tourniquets everywhere though, including on a civilian plate carrier. There are all kinds of ways to induce massive hemorrhage on a limb.


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[markm]

I just don’t foresee having to shoot through barriers too much. Bad guys with body armor is still pretty rare, and at least for me, I can’t drive around with a loaded AR in the car so the chances that I’ll have to shoot through a vehicle is pretty low.

That brings up an interesting point. I've never (in my mind) considered soft body armor as a "barrier" like I would auto glass/metal, walls, etc. I can't think of any AR ammo that won't penetrate soft panals, but I wonder if there's any performance difference between a bonded type bullet vs. an OTM.

[gaijin]

I have not had the same accuracy from the magtech as I have from the imi. In fact, I have stopped buying the 77 grain magtech as it just doesn't shoot as well through my rifles.

However, with that being said, I would not recommend mk262 from a 10.5in barrel anyways. You want a 55 grain or 62 grain gold dot or hornady tap round. Basically some sort of soft point with a lower velocity expansion threshold and as much speed as you can coax from that short barrel. Rule of thumb for me is 12.5in barrels and longer get 62 grain and up and 11.5in barrels and shorter get 64 grain and down with sbr specific designed soft points. The 262 will have unreliable expansion from a 10.5 barrel.

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I’ve chrono’d both the CBC and IMI 77 gr.
The CBC had velocity spreads of 100 FPS, the IMI was <50 FPS.
The rate of “fliers” has been (understandably) much greater with CBC.
I use it for 300 yds and in ammo.
The IMI has been OK to 600 on full size IPSC steel- A/C zone.

The BHs is better yet.

You get what you pay for.

[1168]

I’ve chrono’d both the CBC and IMI 77 gr.
The CBC had velocity spreads of 100 FPS, the IMI was <50 FPS.
The rate of “fliers” has been (understandably) much greater with CBC.
I use it for 300 yds and in ammo.
The IMI has been OK to 600 on full size IPSC steel- A/C zone.

The BHs is better yet.

You get what you pay for.

Any pressure signs? Does your rifle have a true .556 chamber?

[Ned Christiansen]

My experience with both-- not extensive so take it as such-- is that they have run neck and neck for accuracy with a small advantage to the Magtech. I think they're close enough that it will be a barrel-to-barrel preference thing.

[Pappabear]

My experience with both-- not extensive so take it as such-- is that they have run neck and neck for accuracy with a small advantage to the Magtech. I think they're close enough that it will be a barrel-to-barrel preference thing.

We run Nosler 77 and SMK 77 and BH 77, as long as I have one of those, I'm GTG.

PB

[AndyLate]

I hope the IMI Razor core 77 grain, is ok, that's what my "go to" mags are loaded with. I had no problems with popped primers.

Andy

[1168]

I hope the IMI Razor core 77 grain, is ok, that's what my "go to" mags are loaded with. I had no problems with popped primers.

Andy
Thanks. Are you using it in .223 Wylde chambers, or true 5.56 chambers?

[gaijin]

Any pressure signs? Does your rifle have a true .556 chamber?

Most of my guns are 5.56.

I DID experience pressure issues (with both IMI and CBC 77 gr) in a Wylde chambered gun (blown primers).
I lengthened the leade and problem is resolved.

[1168]

Most of my guns are 5.56.

I DID experience pressure issues (with both IMI and CBC 77 gr) in a Wylde chambered gun (blown primers).
I lengthened the leade and problem is resolved.

Thanks, I suspect this to be the case with most of the stories on the internet about IMI popping primers.

[AndyLate]

Thanks. Are you using it in .223 Wylde chambers, or true 5.56 chambers?

All my ARs have 5.56 chambers, and I have mainly fired the IMI Razor core through my 16" BCM upper.

Andy

[nightchief]

I’ve been curious about IMI 77 grain, but everytime I google it I find threads on TOS complaining about popped primers. Anybody here shooting it out of a 5.56 chamber? Or a Noveske match or .223 Wylde chamber?

I've been shooting BH, IMI and CBC 77gr from a 18" Larue Wylde chambered, suppressed with no popped primers...

I have experienced popped primers from CBC 62 and 77 gr 556 in a 556 chambered 11.5" while suppressed.

Accuracy in the Larue barrel is best with BH 77gr SMK 556, then IMI , then CBC.

[1168]

Thanks, guys. I am going to order some IMI 77.

[Ned Christiansen]

77's of just about any flavor are almost magic. I glom onto every factory load in 77 that comes along to try it out, if only a single box. Also recently the new Nosler 70 grain RDF gave me some really good groups at distance.