View Full Version : Geissele High Speed National Match-Match trigger doubling
Ive got a Geissele High Speed National Match-Match trigger in my 6.5 creedmoor built on Aero Precision M5 receiver set. The gun has an SLR adjustable gas port, JP lightweight carrier and JP silent captured spring.
The gun has 350-400 rounds through it before today. Never had an issue. I havent shot the gun in about a year due to no time to get to the long range.
Finally get some time to hit the range today. Shooting off a bench, not prone.
Rounds 1, 2, and 3 fire normally. Rounds 4-5 doubled. I cant say if the hammer was reset after this as I only had 5 rounds in the mag.
I broke the gun down, tested the trigger and everything held like it should(sear and disconnector wise) as far as I could tell. I did not bump the stock on the ground and see if it slipped off of anything.
Put a little oil on the trigger and hammer pins and put the gun back together.
Put 5 rounds in the mag, the gun doubled 1&2, fed 3 and stopped. Again, I am not sure if the hammer reset after this event as I cleared and put the gun away.
I am not 100% sure that I didnt bump firing the gun, but I would have GUESSED that I would have bump fired more than 2, I dont know, ive never purposely bump fired a gun before. I have shot this gun from the bench and from prone. Never had it double before. I feel that my trigger discipline when shooting precision is pretty decent. I do not reset the trigger until the gun settles down, I typically hold it to the rear. Thats why I lean away from this being a "bump fire" and more of a "the trigger setup isnt quite right" or "the disconnector isnt quite right" due to my holding of the trigger to the rear until the gun settles.
I am going to go through the trigger setup again to make sure I dont have the sear engagement to far out of whack and its barely holding on... Just weird to put 350-400 rounds through a gun and THEN it has issues, but I guess the sear face could be just now worn in enough that I need to re-do the setup procedure.
Anything else PHYSICALLY I should look for on this beyond following the Geissele directions on setting the two screws?
What say you, people who are WAY smarter on this platform than me?
ETA: just to be clear I am NOT blaming Geissele, their product, or anything about them. I have not contacted them and I dont think I will be until I can go back through the setup procedure and shoot the gun again. If it still does it at that point, I will be contacting them to get their take on it and to possibly send the trigger back.
Same issue here recently and it reminded me of when my older Colt large Pin with a Jewel trigger had the after travel set too tight... in essence I was bump firing the rifle unintentionally. So in both cases the solution for me was to increase the amount of after travel. Good luck
edit to add:
As to the instructions they are pretty darn good as to understanding the relationship of sear engagement and weight of pull. Quite possibly after the limited number of rounds that you have fired a very small amount of wear has changed that beautiful break into a broken assembly. Re-adjust and try again ASAP.
As to the instructions they are pretty darn good as to understanding the relationship of sear engagement and weight of pull. Quite possibly after the limited number of rounds that you have fired a very small amount of wear has changed that beautiful break into a broken assembly. Re-adjust and try again ASAP.
Thats where I am leaning. Re-adjust and shoot it again.
Take off the upper
Cock the hammer
Put a foam earplug in front of the bot catch
Put your hand in front if the hammer and pull the trigger- keep the trigger pinned back for the rest...
Catch the hammer and reset while holding trigger back
While still holding the trigger back, push and hit all the fcg parts, wiggle the disconnector, etc, just dont press firmly on the tail of, or pull the disconnector.
If the hammer doesnt release, its most likely you just bumped it.
nightchief
08-23-18, 20:55
I don't have a Nat'l Match, but I have a Super 3 Gun with the 4 lb spring. On the rare occasions that I bench shoot, I occasionally double fire or bump fire this trigger account the short pull and reset and the odd ergonomic (for me) configuration at the bench. I've never had this occur in any other shooting position. You might try shooting prone and see if the double fire still occurs.
Pull it out and examine it. Once you are satisfied there is nothing foreign in the mix, readjust the trigger and put a more positive engagement on it. If the adjust won't work, send it back to Geissele without a second thought. They will look it over, figure out what the story is, and get it back to you pretty darn quick.
Was it from a bench? Most likely it is not being held tight enough and the rifle is moving back enough while your finger is fairly stationary. In effect you are doing what a bumpstock does. It allows the rifle to move back enough to let the sear reset while your hand stays on nearly the same place.
Take off the upper
Cock the hammer
Put a foam earplug in front of the bot catch
Put your hand in front if the hammer and pull the trigger- keep the trigger pinned back for the rest...
Catch the hammer and reset while holding trigger back
While still holding the trigger back, push and hit all the fcg parts, wiggle the disconnector, etc, just dont press firmly on the tail of, or pull the disconnector.
If the hammer doesnt release, its most likely you just bumped it.
I did all this... I also bumped the butt of the stock pretty damn hard against my counter tops... nothing released.
I don't have a Nat'l Match, but I have a Super 3 Gun with the 4 lb spring. On the rare occasions that I bench shoot, I occasionally double fire or bump fire this trigger account the short pull and reset and the odd ergonomic (for me) configuration at the bench. I've never had this occur in any other shooting position. You might try shooting prone and see if the double fire still occurs.
Ill have to go to a different range to shoot prone, this range doesnt allow it. This was off a bench. Ive shot this gun off a bench numerous times though.
Pull it out and examine it. Once you are satisfied there is nothing foreign in the mix, readjust the trigger and put a more positive engagement on it. If the adjust won't work, send it back to Geissele without a second thought. They will look it over, figure out what the story is, and get it back to you pretty darn quick.
I did the full re-adjustment while watching Bill Geissele's video. To me, I put it probably about where it was before, but I dont have a trigger pull gauge. I may have a bit more sear engagement than before. I see nothing wrong with the trigger parts, but that doesnt mean there isnt. My eyes arent good enough to see .001 tolerances.
Was it from a bench? Most likely it is not being held tight enough and the rifle is moving back enough while your finger is fairly stationary. In effect you are doing what a bumpstock does. It allows the rifle to move back enough to let the sear reset while your hand stays on nearly the same place.
It was from a bench. I was loaded into my bi-pod as well as I could.
Im leaning towards it was me bump firing the gun, but after re-adjusting, all I can do is go shoot it again and see what it does.
I prefer to shoot prone, but the range we went to today doesnt allow it. I need to get to a different range that I can shoot prone from.
I will try to get back out next week and see whats up with it again and will report back. If I cant get out next week it will be about a month before I am able to get back out due to my travel schedule in September.
I experienced the same thing with the Geissele Hi Speed National Match trigger with the lightest spring combination in an AR10 platform. I was shooting 175 grain ammo, and didn't have the firmest grip while on a bench and I have unintentionally double tapped. After that range session, I changed the trigger to the DMR spring configuration, added more sear engagement, and didn't encounter the issue again.
When I got this trigger(3 years ago) you picked DMR, Match or Service Rifle. It appears now the triggers come with all 3 sets of springs.
So mine is match only. im sure Geissele would send me some other springs if I asked them.
I believe I have added a bit more sear engagement to the setup and will try it again next time I can.
Trigger follow through will prevent the double.
Trigger follow through will prevent the double.
you ever shot this particular trigger?
I have no issues with trigger follow through, especially on a trigger with basically zero over travel...
you ever shot this particular trigger?
I have no issues with trigger follow through, especially on a trigger with basically zero over travel...
I own 3 of them and am familiar with what your describe.
I own 3 of them and am familiar with what your describe.
it appears I am not the only person with this trigger, with this issue in a big frame AR...
So please explain trigger follow through when there is no over travel...
When I shoot my precision guns(whether bolt or semi) I consciously hold the trigger to the rear until the gun settles down from recoil...
If you are using proper follow through then perhaps you need to adjust the trigger.
Shooting my 308 while on the bipod, I will get a double if I get lazy with the trigger. YMMV
If you are using proper follow through then perhaps you need to adjust the trigger.
Shooting my 308 while on the bipod, I will get a double if I get lazy with the trigger. YMMV
Agree with this.
The issue may be insufficient over-travel, and likely not enough sear overlap too..
Agree with this.
The issue may be insufficient over-travel, and likely not enough sear overlap too..
The trigger is set from Geissele as it pertains to over travel, they recommend NOT changing it.
There is little to no discernible over travel.
The trigger is set from Geissele as it pertains to over travel, they recommend NOT changing it.
There is little to no discernible over travel.
Adjustable triggers are known to come out of adjustment. Metal surfaces are known to peen, altering clearances. YMMV.
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