Educate me on the SIG serial # only on trigger assembly

[platoonDaddy]

Shooter this week was showing off his new SIG P365, the only serial number is on the trigger assembly. Per him when the trigger assembly is removed the receiver and slide with barrel per ATF isn't classified as firearm. I find that amazing and hard to digest.

Also learned other SIG models only have the serial number stamped on the trigger assembly.

So is he correct in stating when the trigger assembly is removed, the remaining parts aren't classified as a firearm?

Thinking out loud, have P365 minus the trigger assembly in my carry on briefcase TSA will let it pass through? !!


confused oldMan OUT

[Tx_Aggie]

Shooter this week was showing off his new SIG P365, the only serial number is on the trigger assembly. Per him when the trigger assembly is removed the receiver and slide with barrel per ATF isn't classified as firearm. I find that amazing and hard to digest.

Also learned other SIG models only have the serial number stamped on the trigger assembly.

So is he correct in stating when the trigger assembly is removed, the remaining parts aren't classified as a firearm?

Thinking out loud, have P365 minus the trigger assembly in my carry on briefcase TSA will let it pass through? !!


confused oldMan OUT

In the case of the P320, P365, and a few other firearms (Beretta Nano, Honor Guard, etc.) the internal chassis that houses the trigger system is the serialized firearm in the eyes of ATF. The other parts, including the polymer grip frame that the chassis sits within, are just interchangeable parts.

I have no idea how TSA views this, but for the sake of convenience and one's sanity I wouldn't bet on them understanding the difference between a partial firearm and a complete one, modular chassis or not.

[SomeOtherGuy]

From what I've read TSA will not allow any gun part through security to get on an airliner (carry-on). Obviously some little things like springs or a 1911 sear might not be recognizable and therefore not stopped, but magazines, barrels, slides, grips etc. will all be stopped and result in a bad day for you. (Not sure if that's 15 minutes of bad day and you lose the part and go on your way, or several years of bad days - I have no interest in finding out.)

[SteyrAUG]

Technology evolves and ATF monkey ****s the definitions to make them work.

Remember when the "receiver" had to be the part that accepted magazines, clips or loading devices? SIG should have simply been told their handguns had modular parts like drop in AR triggers and the frames should still be the serial numbered part.

Just one more reason why defining "parts" as a firearm doesn't work.

And TSA won't even allow you to board with an airsoft handgun so you can forget about anything that even looks like a gun.

[austinN4]

The whole purpose of the serialized Fire Control Unit is so the rest of the components can be modular. I can own one FCU and build multiple handguns around it - grip module size and type, caliber, slide, etc. I like it that way and it is why I bought a P320.

[ramairthree]

The whole purpose of the serialized Fire Control Unit is so the rest of the components can be modular. I can own one FCU and build multiple handguns around it - grip module size and type, caliber, slide, etc. I like it that way and it is why I bought a P320.

This is not a personal attack.

This is a statement of my own opinion.

When people talk about having multiple uppers for a lower, or a FCU for a handgun with multiple frames and slides,
I think why in the living F would I want to that.

How in God’s name could you just let uppers sit there without just getting some more lowers?
And why in the hell would I want to play dress up Barbie screwing around a handgun FCU?

It makes no sense at all. You have ONE FCU, then a Comp slide and frame for games, a home defense frame and slide, and a compact carry frame and slide. All that take up the exact same amount of space as they would with a FCU in them.

What is the point?

[Tx_Aggie]

This is not a personal attack.

This is a statement of my own opinion.

When people talk about having multiple uppers for a lower, or a FCU for a handgun with multiple frames and slides,
I think why in the living F would I want to that.

How in God’s name could you just let uppers sit there without just getting some more lowers?
And why in the hell would I want to play dress up Barbie screwing around a handgun FCU?

It makes no sense at all. You have ONE FCU, then a Comp slide and frame for games, a home defense frame and slide, and a compact carry frame and slide. All that take up the exact same amount of space as they would with a FCU in them.

What is the point?

I can only really see the appeal if you're stuck living somewhere with really inconvenient/stupid regulations surrounding the purchase of a firearm (New Jersey would be one example, where you have to obtain a permit to own a pistol, plus a second time-limited permit to even buy one), or someplace that limits the number of firearms one can own (some European countries).

I can imagine the appeal of a modular chassis/fcu for an LE department or the military, but for different reasons.

[Det-Sog]

It makes no sense at all. You have ONE FCU, then a Comp slide and frame for games, a home defense frame and slide, and a compact carry frame and slide. All that take up the exact same amount of space as they would with a FCU in them.

Well, as a Sig fan AND a P320 owner, you might be on to something. I have the carry size and like it. I'm lukewarm at best after the recall though. Now, I REALLY WANT the full size conversion kit with the RMR on it. For the price of the conversion kit though, I can almost buy whole a new gun. Hmmmm. Now, since the old carry "parts only" are not a workable firearm, I could just toss them in the lower drawer of my tool box in the garage or sell them on the bay...

So... a year later after the recall, I'm STILL thinking of swapping out the 320. As I said, hmmmm.

[austinN4]

It makes no sense at all.
It might not to you, but it does to me. That is why we have choices.

[ramairthree]

So, you have a subcompact, compact, service size, and extra sized game sized item collection of four things.

Each of which is exactly the same size and shape as a functional handgun. But at any one time you only have one functional handgun and three non functional items.

For minimal expenses, you could have four functional handguns taking up the same size and space by putting something inside the other three.

I can’t wrap my head around why I would want to do that.

[SteyrAUG]

The whole purpose of the serialized Fire Control Unit is so the rest of the components can be modular. I can own one FCU and build multiple handguns around it - grip module size and type, caliber, slide, etc. I like it that way and it is why I bought a P320.

Everyone understands the purpose, but now ATF has an entire new way to declare a fire control group to be a firearm. Pretty soon any and all parts will be declared "firearms" and that is what I object to.

[SteyrAUG]

So, you have a subcompact, compact, service size, and extra sized game sized item collection of four things.

Each of which is exactly the same size and shape as a functional handgun. But at any one time you only have one functional handgun and three non functional items.

For minimal expenses, you could have four functional handguns taking up the same size and space by putting something inside the other three.

I can’t wrap my head around why I would want to do that.

Don't blame the gimmick. HK did something similar with the HK4 back in the 60s where you just changed the barrel and magazine and had four caliber options. Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with the SIG idea, the problem is "fire control groups" have now qualified as a registered firearm and that isn't very good.

Not everyone is trying to be practical / tactical or whatever. And if somebody wants a handgun that can be configured in four sizes and that works for them, then the market exists. You might never own one, I might never buy one...but who cares. I own a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense to anyone else.

[Tx_Aggie]

...the problem is "fire control groups" have now qualified as a registered firearm and that isn't very good.



This is an excellent point, and admittedly not something that had occurred to me before you mentioned it.

[austinN4]

Everyone understands the purpose, but now ATF has an entire new way to declare a fire control group to be a firearm.

Only because it is the serialized part, no?

[SteyrAUG]

Only because it is the serialized part, no?

Correct. But now it has set a precedent. What happens when barrels become considered a "firearm" by ATF because some new technology allows for a modular barrel to be changed out on a host of "frames" which should be the serial numbered part but aren't?

By the old rules, SIG should have needed to serial number each frame and the "fire control group" could still be a drop in "part" that can be walked to each frame as the owner wished. So now something "new" has been declared a "firearm" when it is just a group of parts.