View Full Version : Trump thinking about a permanent US base in Poland
Polish President Andrzej Duda is eager to secure a deal, suggested it be named Fort Trump (https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/2018/09/18/trump-says-looking-very-seriously-at-permanent-poland-base#gs.KDGgqNg)
NYH1.
Polish President Andrzej Duda is eager to secure a deal, suggested it be named Fort Trump (https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/2018/09/18/trump-says-looking-very-seriously-at-permanent-poland-base#gs.KDGgqNg)
NYH1.
I hope we do- Poland has become a powerful, anti- communist ally in Eastern Europe.
I hope we do- Poland has become a powerful, anti- communist ally in Eastern Europe.
I agree.
NYH1.
I thought a base in Poland (or network of bases, including Air Force and comms stations) was the apparent choice for at least 20 years as Ze Germans are less and less supportive of US presence post-Cold War. Never mind that the Russians are just as mobile and dangerous in their post-Soviet phase. As I understand it, the Poles are pro-US, anti-Euro zone bank control and most definitely anti-Russian. An ex-pat living in Poland told me US military and economic support are welcome with open arms, and I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of his personal experiences there.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-18-18, 19:08
Camp Pulaski
I have a buddy that hates the idea of the US east of Germany. Poland and the Baltic states are just not worth the squeeze and really Russia's area and an antagonism to them. I disagree.
Camp Pulaski
I have a buddy that hates the idea of the US east of Germany. Poland and the Baltic states are just not worth the squeeze and really Russia's area and an antagonism to them. I disagree.
I'm am well out of the loop of diplomacy, foreign policy and military involvement in any part of the world, so my post is likely dated. Although, given what you said, antogonizing Russia might be the exact reason why some people want US involvement in Poland.
I think Poland and Hungary both deserve US bases, both would be willing to fight, not so sure about Germany.
Moose-Knuckle
09-18-18, 19:58
With the EU's attitude towards them I'm sure Poland and Hungary would welcome it.
I love Poland. Great place to be. At least in the summer...
If I was still in, I would be the first to volunteer to go. Hell, I might even stay there.
vicious_cb
09-18-18, 21:40
Germany can pound sand. These are the friends we need.
https://i.redd.it/lepppx5j0iwy.jpg
RetroRevolver77
09-18-18, 21:43
delete
Germany can pound sand. These are the friends we need.
Yep, we should remember that Poland was carved up by prior agreement between Hitler and Stalin. Weeks after Germany invaded from the west, Russia invaded from the east. Nobody says it, but Stalin was as culpable for the start of the European war as Hitler. Both of them invaded Poland, but we only declared war on one of them.
We should also remember the Hungarians tried to break free of Russia in the 1950s and the Russians put down the uprising HARD.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-18-18, 22:11
I love Poland. Great place to be. At least in the summer...
If I was still in, I would be the first to volunteer to go. Hell, I might even stay there.
I loved my time in Poland. Only place in the EU I've been were people assume I'm Polish.
I don't know, we might be to soft on immigration and communism for them. They understand their future relies on keeping their nation strong. Them and the rest of Eastern Europe are ironically becoming the future of Western Civilization.
Kind of how Rome fell in 476, but the Eastern Roman empire stood for almost 1000 years more.
It is so ironic that our "bestest buddies", whom we either saved their asses (France) or rebuilt them (Germany), have been supplanted for loyalty and friendship by our former Warsaw Pact enemies. Oh what a tangled web we weave.....
It is so ironic that our "bestest buddies", whom we either saved their asses (France) or rebuilt them (Germany), have been supplanted for loyalty and friendship by our former Warsaw Pact enemies. Oh what a tangled web we weave.....
ABNAK, given the choice the Polish most likely would have been our allies in WWII. They just happened to be in the wrong place for that to happen. You point is spot on for sure though.
NYH1.
Camp Pulaski
Permanent = Fort
Fort Pulaski sounds good to me.
Doc Safari
09-20-18, 14:23
I think Poland and Hungary both deserve US bases, both would be willing to fight, not so sure about Germany.
I predict that Germany and Turkey will form an alliance that peels Germany and Turkey both away from NATO and maybe into the Russian sphere of influence. Turkey is already friendly with Russia, and Germany seems to be cuddling up to them of late.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-20-18, 14:31
I predict that Germany and Turkey will form an alliance that peels Germany and Turkey both away from NATO and maybe into the Russian sphere of influence. Turkey is already friendly with Russia, and Germany seems to be cuddling up to them of late.
My dad was a history teacher. He said either my kids or my grandkids would fight the Germans.
Actually, more historically England was the counterweight to continental heavyweight power. So as Germany tries to make take over control of the EU, the natural balance would for England and Russia to counter balance. Of course with the US and China, the old school rules are a little bit warped.
Permanent = Fort
Fort Pulaski sounds good to me.
That would be neat. We have a Fort Pulaski NP near Savannah, GA.
Permanent = Fort
Fort Pulaski sounds good to me.
Well, unless you staff it with jarheads and then it's Camp Pulaski.
:cool:
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-20-18, 18:17
ABNAK, given the choice the Polish most likely would have been our allies in WWII. They just happened to be in the wrong place for that to happen. You point is spot on for sure though.
NYH1.
They were. Remember Operation Market Garden.
https://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2018/09/19/fort_trump_fortress_poland_112881.html
They further note the country’s profound preoccupation with Russia as almost Europe’s exclusive security threat.
Ya think? Maybe an asteroid a distant second? Who the hell else? You know, besides the ‘refugee’ invasion.
How about Fort Kościuszko?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Kościuszko
wildcard600
09-20-18, 20:18
I'm good with this. Construction should start immediately and while we are building that, start scouting Fort sites in Hungary and the Czech Republic.
My dad was a history teacher. He said either my kids or my grandkids would fight the Germans.
Actually, more historically England was the counterweight to continental heavyweight power. So as Germany tries to make take over control of the EU, the natural balance would for England and Russia to counter balance. Of course with the US and China, the old school rules are a little bit warped.
This time it will be US and Japan and Japan might have to modify their constitution to allow a standing military force.
Germany is a serious wild card. For them to engage in another conflict on a large scale would require them to go completely rogue as they have also have constitutional limitations to a lesser degree. Germany allied with Russia in a hot war would be ironic as hell and completely precarious for Germany as Putin might take the opportunity for additional land snatches, especially with a weak leader like Merkel.
Also the UK isn't the British Empire that once existed with ports in every continent and a formidable Navy that could enforce their will globally. Another European war is hard to even fathom, but maybe it would finally resolve the AR vs. AK debate.
If I were going to visit Europe Poland and Hungary and possibly some other Eastern countries are the only ones I would go to.
Warsaw feels like Paris in the good years, before it became a ‘Third World shithole’
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/09/warsaw-feels-like-paris-in-the-good-years-before-it-became-a-third-world-shithole-katie-hopkins/
Let’s take this moment to pause, catch our breath and remember that Germany presently does not have an effective functioning military. No ships, tanks and aircraft are pretty much fubar.
But they do have a gadzillion muzzie refugees on welfare imported by their Russia friendly East German leader so what's your point.
Moose-Knuckle
09-21-18, 12:50
I predict that Germany and Turkey will form an alliance . . .
They've had one since at least WWI and again in WWII.
Let’s take this moment to pause, catch our breath and remember that Germany presently does not have an effective functioning military. No ships, tanks and aircraft are pretty much fubar.
Not sure if you're being facetious or not. However, Germany does have an effective functioning military with ships, tanks and aircraft. Not including Russia, Germany has the 3rd largest military in Europe. Their military isn't huge, about the size of the USMC ±.
NYH1.
Averageman
09-23-18, 07:49
Not sure if you're being facetious or not. However, Germany does have an effective functioning military with ships, tanks and aircraft. Not including Russia, Germany has the 3rd largest military in Europe. Their military isn't huge, about the size of the USMC ±.
NYH1.
My last peak at their readiness was pretty bleak.
I believe they sent what was in essence a Aircraft Carrier for helicopters to help out in Iraq. The readiness facts were that they had no functioning Helicopters on board.
They're spending money on "other things" now.
Moose-Knuckle
09-23-18, 10:10
They're spending money on "other things" now.
Replacement culture/population.
My last peak at their readiness was pretty bleak.
I believe they sent what was in essence a Aircraft Carrier for helicopters to help out in Iraq. The readiness facts were that they had no functioning Helicopters on board.
They're spending money on "other things" now.
I didn't think Germany was apart of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Germany as most of Europe was against OIF.
Germany sent troops and police personnel for Operation Enduring Freedom. They had over 50 KIA IIRC. That's nowhere near what we or even the Brits had, but Germans did die in Afghanistan.
As far as their readiness go's, don't know about that. I do know their military is about the size of the USMC as mentioned, with the equipment mentioned.
NYH1.
Not sure if you're being facetious or not. However, Germany does have an effective functioning military with ships, tanks and aircraft. Not including Russia, Germany has the 3rd largest military in Europe. Their military isn't huge, about the size of the USMC ±.
NYH1.
Not being facetious at all. They do NOT have a functioning military. In a Stars and Stripes article a couple of months ago a NATO expert described their readiness as "abysmal".
Only 4 of their 128 Eurofighter jets are combat ready. 4...
19 helicopter pilots lost their licenses to fly because of lack of flight time because no helicopters.
Few operating tanks, zero of their submarines are operational and other armored vehicles are sitting in maintenance bays broke down with no money for repairs. The troops are woefully short on clothing (maybe cheaper than dirt can help?), body armor, night vision, bullets and bombs.
Yes, the numbers say USMC, but they can't fight. And to think they lost 2.5 million men on the Ostfront alone in ww II. They can barely field one functional division currently.
Edited to add: let's say they could field 2 divisions. Currently they can field not quite half their tanks, so let's say 150. Or be very generous and say 200. Russia just concluded maneuvers in their east with 300,000 men and 900 tanks. And they definitely have more than 4 airplanes that work. How well do you think Germany could defend itself against Russia should it go hot tomorrow?
No one should be suprised about german readiness, that was the point of the end of the war in europe, germany got eviscerated and in the process lost alot of the genes, military experience etc, to pass on to subsequent generations. Along with a population that actually bore quite a bit of the brunt in germanys defeat. They still have a mind for complex gadgetry but little will is left to wield it or even pay to maintain it
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
Averageman
09-24-18, 12:12
https://globalriskinsights.com/2018/03/state-germanys-military-readiness/
At this time, 95 of the army’s 244 Leopard battle tanks are operational, zero of the German navy’s six submarines are in operation and zero of the 15 frigates are in service. The report arrives as Germany is slated to lead NATO’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (VJTF) at the beginning of 2019, a critical component of the alliance’s strategy for combating Russian aggression in Europe.
Good but brief article.
How well do you think Germany could defend itself against Russia should it go hot tomorrow?
There's not a country in Europe that could defend themselves if Russia rolled tomorrow. All of Europe combined wouldn't be able to fend off a Russian invasion.
NYH1.
Moose-Knuckle
09-24-18, 14:21
There's not a country in Europe that could defend themselves if Russia rolled tomorrow. All of Europe combined wouldn't be able to fend off a Russian invasion.
NYH1.
Western Europe won't/can't even fend off the "economic migrant" invasion.
vicious_cb
09-24-18, 14:51
There's not a country in Europe that could defend themselves if Russia rolled tomorrow. All of Europe combined wouldn't be able to fend off a Russian invasion.
NYH1.
[Citation needed]
Militarily the combined EU would crush Russia. The EU simply has more troops and more advanced technology. The problem is EU's willingness to fight but they can absolutely defend from a Russian invasion. Russia can barely sustain a military operation in Syria...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7j6xU-Fjo&t
Western Europe won't/can't even fend off the "economic migrant" invasion.
That because the political leadership either won't stop or actively encourages it.
Moose-Knuckle
09-24-18, 15:18
That because the political leadership either won't stop or actively encourages it.
Which in a roundabout way was what I was alluding to, perhaps a Russian invasion of the EU would save the EU from itself?
vicious_cb
09-24-18, 15:33
Which in a roundabout way was what I was alluding to, perhaps a Russian invasion of the EU would save the EU from itself?
https://steemitimages.com/DQmeTJhSUzqFJgNn2S5kd6pyzXxTFNfjMZcm7C1Gw9hCCbn/Cy2YMk4VQAAJjrr.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
09-24-18, 16:28
https://steemitimages.com/DQmeTJhSUzqFJgNn2S5kd6pyzXxTFNfjMZcm7C1Gw9hCCbn/Cy2YMk4VQAAJjrr.jpg
:lol:
I was just discussing that principle with my wife last night as we were going to bed and talking about current events.
[Citation needed]
Militarily the combined EU would crush Russia. The EU simply has more troops and more advanced technology. The problem is EU's willingness to fight but they can absolutely defend from a Russian invasion. Russia can barely sustain a military operation in Syria...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7j6xU-Fjo&t
A lot of "if's" at the end of that video. I'm no military expert. However, I think the if's would probably happen and the Russians would prevail. I could be wrong.
NYH1.
sundance435
09-25-18, 15:15
No one should be suprised about german readiness, that was the point of the end of the war in europe, germany got eviscerated and in the process lost alot of the genes, military experience etc, to pass on to subsequent generations. Along with a population that actually bore quite a bit of the brunt in germanys defeat. They still have a mind for complex gadgetry but little will is left to wield it or even pay to maintain it
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
Their collective "atonement" for past sins is also a convenient excuse to not spend more on their military. That excuse is wearing thin 70+ years on. They'll sell advanced weapons, retrofits, and maintenance to anyone but themselves - how ridiculous is that? I fully support a pivot towards a country like Poland over Germany.
Side note, I despise the hypocrisy of German politicians clamoring for the U.S. to maintain our relationship with them "for the good of the West and world security" when they are the most self-interested nation in the western world. Trump ain't wrong in trying to end the U.S. subsidy train for Europe without a little more skin in the game from the Europeans - as usual, the problem is the messenger, not the message. Germany reaching 2% of GDP-equivalent spent on its military over the next few years would have an almost imperceptible effect on their economy...but then it's back to the same old historical excuses.
Averageman
09-25-18, 16:57
The German political system requires the US to defend them.
They began backing off after the wall fell.
I say cut them loose.
The German political system requires the US to defend them.
They began backing off after the wall fell.
I say cut them loose.
Agreed!
I was only pointing out that they do have or consider themselves to have an Army, Navy and Air Force. I wasn't aware of their lack of readiness. Thanks to all for pointing that out.
NYH1.
https://steemitimages.com/DQmeTJhSUzqFJgNn2S5kd6pyzXxTFNfjMZcm7C1Gw9hCCbn/Cy2YMk4VQAAJjrr.jpg
That cycle very much depends upon the political freedom of the countries in question. Both Germany and Russia went through very hard times in the 1920s, 30s and 40s and it did create "strong men" but those "strong men" hardly created "good times" for Russia or Germany.
In contrast, Switzerland seems to have avoided most of the "hard times" of the 20th century by avoiding war and deciding to become the "bank" for all of those involved in war and they seem to have had pretty consistent "good times" making watches and chocolate while pretending they don't know where most of that "German gold" came from.
Also some very "strong men" went to Vietnam and did their absolute best, despite being hamstrung by the government and undermined at home, and there were not "good times" to follow. The good times did not happen until Reagan arrived after the "me decade" which was possibly the decade of the weakest of the weak, and he stopped spending money on BS and reasserted our status as a super power.
vicious_cb
02-14-19, 02:33
From watching this video you would think the US Army just liberated them from occupation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVCx1IYwulQ&t=
From watching this video you would think the US Army just liberated them from occupation.
The Poles know what it is like to live under the yokes of communism and fascism so they truly appreciate freedom and are determined to remain free. They must be scratching their heads and wonder WTH is going on when they see news clips of the leftist in this country marching in our streets carrying the Soviet flag and attacking those carrying American flags.
ThirdWatcher
02-14-19, 07:54
“Camp Casimir Pulaski” would be a great name for a US Army camp in Poland. I really wish I was young, I’d PCS there and make it my home.
Looked like elements of 2/CAV rolling into Poland (2015) from that video. I recently gave a lecture at New Mexico Military Institute in Roswell, and they have a good number of foreign students. I met one 20 year old from Poland, and she's in the States on a Cross Country scholarship. She's a triathlete. She comes from a town in western Poland in Lower Silesia which was occupied by the Germans from 1939-1945, and when the Russians rolled in, 98% of the town was destroyed.
These people know hard times, and they also realize that the US represents what is good in the world. Poles are good people!
Bunch of units in and thru Poland pretty much non stop. We can't have a permanent force there by treaty, but we can train there indefinitely.
And of course, 2CR & 173rd there on a regular basis. For a long time the 173rd rotated BNs in Eastern Europe. (OAR)
2CR does the Dragon ride Bavaria to Poland/Latvia/Estonia on a regular basis.
Now they are rotating in more stateside units. And Armor.
......aaand the Russians and Chinese are wanting bases in Venezuala.
I am not a military person but the closer we put bases to Russia the more they are gonna want bases next to us.
I wish people would stay in their own hemisphere
......aaand the Russians and Chinese are wanting bases in Venezuala.
I am not a military person but the closer we put bases to Russia the more they are gonna want bases next to us.
I wish people would stay in their own hemisphere
We could just stay here, but that doesn't mean Russia or China would remain in their neck of the woods. It's like the Left is saying the US needs to adopt the Green New Deal, even though China is the largest polluter on the planet. The idea is if we set the example, they will follow. Kind of naïve, but that's the norm with isolationists, libertarians and leftists.
I've been the point of the spear in overseas operations. It's all part of power projection in the large geopolitical competition. If you're not playing, you're not winning.
Maybe. I may be out of my lane but I just think we should declare an American Anschluss, take back the Panama Canal, enter a period of undisturbed isolation, and clean house in our own hemisphere with a Pinochet style Crusade Against Communism
Whiskey_Bravo
02-15-19, 07:32
Maybe. I may be out of my lane but I just think we should declare an American Anschluss, take back the Panama Canal, enter a period of undisturbed isolation, and clean house in our own hemisphere with a Pinochet style Crusade Against Communism
Can we invade Mexico and annex their resorts on both coast? Also going to need a DMZ style buffer zone on their side of the Rio Grande.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.