View Full Version : Noob question: Colt SP1 and old age factor
Hello again,
LGS just put a consignment rifle on the wall today, a Colt SP1. I’m going in to see it this weekend, and possibly pick it up.
In days of old when I was in the Air Force, we had Model 604 rifles, so I have a soft spot for the SP1.
However, these are all pretty old now, they haven’t made them for decades. Question: would opting for an AR15A4 rifle (LGS has Colts in those, too,) be a wiser use of my money? I quit collecting last year, and just like to shoot, now. Would an A4 serve me better than an SP1 for shooting longevity?
Our old armorer had served in the US Army as well, and he once told me, “anodizing hardens the outside of the rifle, but only the outside; the inside will wear down and wear out as the years pass, and with regular, repeated use. That’s why so many of our rifles are loose and rattle.”
Is this true?
These factors make me wary of the SP1. They have been around for a very long time, and have aged.
Your old armorer was an idiot. An old SP1 is going to wear exactly as the AR15 A4 you are referring to. If you want a shooter, the SP1 isn't really it as they are more in the collectible realm. If you want the daily shooter/abuser a newer one will be what you want.
Hello again,
LGS just put a consignment rifle on the wall today, a Colt SP1. I’m going in to see it this weekend, and possibly pick it up.
In days of old when I was in the Air Force, we had Model 604 rifles, so I have a soft spot for the SP1.
However, these are all pretty old now, they haven’t made them for decades. Question: would opting for an AR15A4 rifle (LGS has Colts in those, too,) be a wiser use of my money? I quit collecting last year, and just like to shoot, now. Would an A4 serve me better than an SP1 for shooting longevity?
Our old armorer had served in the US Army as well, and he once told me, “anodizing hardens the outside of the rifle, but only the outside; the inside will wear down and wear out as the years pass, and with regular, repeated use. That’s why so many of our rifles are loose and rattle.”
Is this true?
These factors make me wary of the SP1. They have been around for a very long time, and have aged.
The SP1 has a pencil barrel, no brass deflector or forward assist and has a fixed carry handle. I have one and they are cool to look at and shoot occasionally. I wouldn't take mine out to shoot regularly. I would get the A4 with heavy barrel, round hand guards and flat top upper receiver- at least you will be closer to 2018 and not 1965.
Question: would opting for an AR15A4 rifle (LGS has Colts in those, too,) be a wiser use of my money? I quit collecting last year, and just like to shoot, now. Would an A4 serve me better than an SP1 for shooting longevity?
Wouldn't the SP1 have a 1 in 12 twist rate? If so not optimal for a wide range of bullet weights. As IG said, better off with a current rifle for a shooter.
Hello again,
1- LGS just put a consignment rifle on the wall today, a Colt SP1. I’m going in to see it this weekend, and possibly pick it up.
2- In days of old when I was in the Air Force, we had Model 604 rifles, so I have a soft spot for the SP1.Question: would opting for an AR15A4 rifle (LGS has Colts in those, too,) be a wiser use of my money? I quit collecting last year, and just like to shoot, now. Would an A4 serve me better than an SP1 for shooting longevity?
3- Our old armorer had served in the US Army as well, and he once told me, “anodizing hardens the outside of the rifle, but only the outside; the inside will wear down and wear out as the years pass, and with regular, repeated use. That’s why so many of our rifles are loose and rattle.”
Is this true?
1- What was the condition and price?
2- If you aren't looking at putting an optic on it, and don't mind shooting 55 grain ammo for most of your needs, the SP1 is every bit as functional now as it was when used in its combat form. There is no shooting longevity in this scenario unless the SP1 appears to be a totally fried piece of garbage. That doesn't mean you might not need to replace the main action spring as preventative maintenance, but that is no big deal. I doubt that would even be an issue.
3- Your unit armorer is partially correct. Anodizing does harden the outside of aluminum, but it isn't a paint, it is a bath which the pieces are placed in and all sides are hardened. The center of the piece does not get harder, but all side do. Your rifles rattling are from usage, and in many cases, the weapons rattled or were loose even when they were brand new. Not every AR15 has super tight upper and lower fit when it comes out of the box, and I would guess a new AR15A4 would have play between the upper and lower to some degree.
I mentioned above that the SP1 is a highly functional weapon, and if your stirred memories are important, and would get your out shooting more often, I say go for it. Sure you will find 55 grain ammunition shoots best in it, but that is what most people buy anyway. The last and cleanest estimate I've heard for the Vietnam war is that we killed 1.1 million bad guys. While air power and arty did a bulk of that, it doesn't change the SP1 style weapon with its 55 grain ammo put a hurt on Communism quite nicely.
To long to read? If you want a scope, get the AR15A4, if not, use 55 grain ammo and slay your way to cardboard and paper victory with the SP1.
PS- I own both, and love my SP1.
I think Stock and Iraqgunz both kinda hit it. I guess it comes down to the price of the sp1 but I personally agree with Iraqgunz in saying it is more of a collectible gun. The AR15A4 should be a bit cheaper and if you are buying it as a shooting that would be my choice. Really as long as the sp1 is in pretty good shape the only thing that might need to be replaced is springs.
So as a shooting gun I'd go with the newer gun and put the money saved into ammo, maybe towards an optic if you want one, or other accessories.
Price was originally $1100 when I talked to the clerk but since, seller upped the price tag to $1500. Looks nice outside, I’d like to see the BCG and receiver interior, but have to wait for the owner (who works p/t in the shop) to come in Monday.
Meanwhile, the Colt AR15A4 is calling me @ $1150, too, so...
Thanks to all of you for the excellent information, you’ve given me much to think about and consider. I very much appreciate the time you’ve taken to write up and share your thoughts, here. Much obliged!
Hello again,
LGS just put a consignment rifle on the wall today, a Colt SP1. I’m going in to see it this weekend, and possibly pick it up.
In days of old when I was in the Air Force, we had Model 604 rifles, so I have a soft spot for the SP1.
However, these are all pretty old now, they haven’t made them for decades. Question: would opting for an AR15A4 rifle (LGS has Colts in those, too,) be a wiser use of my money? I quit collecting last year, and just like to shoot, now. Would an A4 serve me better than an SP1 for shooting longevity?
Our old armorer had served in the US Army as well, and he once told me, “anodizing hardens the outside of the rifle, but only the outside; the inside will wear down and wear out as the years pass, and with regular, repeated use. That’s why so many of our rifles are loose and rattle.”
Is this true?
These factors make me wary of the SP1. They have been around for a very long time, and have aged.
No offense, but that’s literally the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. Also, you can get the A4’s for quite a bit cheaper than that online. More in $1K out the door range.
Price was originally $1100 when I talked to the clerk but since, seller upped the price tag to $1500.
Meanwhile, the Colt AR15A4 is calling me @ $1150, too, so...
Much obliged!
I would tell the place that raising the price after i had looked at it was an attempt to screw me, and they could pound sand.
You should be able to get the Colt M16A4 a bit cheaper, but I wouldn't argue over saving $50 or so in a brick and mortar store.
Here is a story for you. My buddy is the owner and founder of Rainier Arms. When there was panic buying a few years back, one of the employees sold a personal weapon down there at a very high price. The owner of Rainier Arms made the employee call the purchaser back up, and refund the money. He would not allow the store to be part of price gouging/ screwing people. It sounds like the shop there needs to understand the same thing. I might be interested in the SP1, though unless it is immaculate it should be closer to $800. No matter how you slice it, it is simply an old weapon, and I would let them know that.
Sounds like you need to look at the Colt AR15A4.
https://78.media.tumblr.com/a34f210e7624046c5b927697d32a1cf0/tumblr_pc3i74h0ut1rrcg2fo1_1280.jpg
Not sure I would pay 1150.00 for an AR15A4. I'd probably do some shopping and check someplace like Gunbroker first.
Ar15A4: $975
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-AR15-A4-Semi-Auto-20-inch-Barrel-Rifle-p/ar15a4.htm
Not sure I would pay 1150.00 for an AR15A4. I'd probably do some shopping and check someplace like Gunbroker first.
G&R Tactical has them for $100 cheaper. I can't recall if there is an M4C discount on Colt firearms, but it is still $100 cheaper.....
http://www.gandrtactical.com/Colt-AR15A4-20-Rifle_p_241.html
Yep, or that. Especially in light of the fact that it looked like he was taking him for a ride.
G&R Tactical has them for $100 cheaper. I can't recall if there is an M4C discount on Colt firearms, but it is still $100 cheaper.....
http://www.gandrtactical.com/Colt-AR15A4-20-Rifle_p_241.html
Yep, or that. Especially in light of the fact that it looked like he was taking him for a ride.
Now that you point it out, that does seem to sound like the type of place where the mag and carry handle go missing.... If they are going to con you one way, they will do it another way or another day as well.
indianalex01
09-23-18, 00:50
[QUOTE=Buncheong;2660637]Price was originally $1100 when I talked to the clerk but since, seller upped the price tag to $1500. Looks nice outside, I’d like to see the BCG and receiver interior, but have to wait for the owner (who works p/t in the shop) to come in Monday.
Meanwhile, the Colt AR15A4 is calling me @ $1150, too, so...
Thanks to all of you for the excellent information, you’ve given me much to think about and consider. I very much appreciate the time you’ve taken to write up and share your thoughts, here. Much obliged.
AU is selling Colt A4’s 975$ shipped
indianalex01
09-23-18, 00:55
Sp1 in good shape are going for 12-1600$. AU is selling Colt A4’s for 975$ shipped. I got one last month. I also got me a brownells M16A1 clone. It’s pretty cool. 1-1100$ I think
Renegade04
10-08-18, 18:57
I will add this. I would not spend the money for a SP1 as a regular shooter. I would get the AR15A4 for that. Some guys do shoot their SP1s on a fairly regular basis. I am not one of those. Mine is in pristine condition and shows no signs of use whatsoever and it will stay that way. For me, it is a collectible, not a shooter. Most of my older Colts are not shot. I have plenty of newer ARs, including the retro ARs I have built, for that.
I'm with Renegade04. My SP1 is badass, but I don't shoot it at all anymore. It is very light and easy to handle, even with a 20" barrel, and is pretty accurate, (I put a carry handle 3 by 9 scope on it years ago, to test). Fore sure if I'm just buying something to shoot, and possibly shoot hard, It's not going to be a SP1. But they are really cool.
vicious_cb
10-09-18, 00:46
I will add this. I would not spend the money for a SP1 as a regular shooter. I would get the AR15A4 for that. Some guys do shoot their SP1s on a fairly regular basis. I am not one of those. Mine is in pristine condition and shows no signs of use whatsoever and it will stay that way. For me, it is a collectible, not a shooter. Most of my older Colts are not shot. I have plenty of newer ARs, including the retro ARs I have built, for that.
Cannot comprehend...Guns are meant to be shot. Unless your gun belongs in museum somewhere because they only made like 10 of them, there is no reason to not shoot it. Everything on an SP1 you can find replacement parts for while still maintaining the original look and feel of the gun.
Renegade04
10-09-18, 07:50
Cannot comprehend...Guns are meant to be shot. Unless your gun belongs in museum somewhere because they only made like 10 of them, there is no reason to not shoot it. Everything on an SP1 you can find replacement parts for while still maintaining the original look and feel of the gun.
What about all the collectors out there who never fire what they have? That is the difference between collectors and shooters. Guys like myself are a bit of both. We have collector firearms and we have others for shooting and enjoying. Nothing wrong with that at all. If I want to shoot an old school AR, I will drag out one of my retros.
https://i.imgur.com/lz5fshJ.jpg
Hammer_Man
10-09-18, 22:33
What about all the collectors out there who never fire what they have? That is the difference between collectors and shooters. Guys like myself are a bit of both. We have collector firearms and we have others for shooting and enjoying. Nothing wrong with that at all. If I want to shoot an old school AR, I will drag out one of my retros.
https://i.imgur.com/lz5fshJ.jpg
Not to detract from anything, but can I have one of your retros?? Particularly the 5th one in from the right, thanks!
I would go A4, primarily for the flexibility of the 1913 upper. You can always stick a Brownells Type D on it if your arms aren't on the longish side.
SP1, my only real concern would be cracking the forearm and would possibly swap to Brownells reproduction at the start.
Renegade04
10-10-18, 09:49
Not to detract from anything, but can I have one of your retros?? Particularly the 5th one in from the right, thanks!
I know a lot of guys that would love to have any one of my retros. :D
I remember getting my SP1 in 1985. A police armorer had traded it in for a new A2 version. I paid $450 for it. I did swap out the bird cage flash suppressor for a three pronged version and the front screw pivot pin for a quick detachable one. I still have the original parts to restore it to its original factory condition. A very accurate nice shooting rifle.
Once again my sincere thanks to all who replied, you’ve helped me clarify this subject, immensely.
I really appreciate the membership here on M4carbine.net. Good folks.
IndianaBoy
10-14-18, 08:12
I built a 603 clone (sort of, I used a modern profile lower) with some of those kits that came back from SE Asia somewhere a few years ago. It is all original Colt except for the barrel and lower. I swapped the trigger out for a SSA.
It is a very light rifle for a 20", and I enjoy it, but I wouldn't suggest one to someone as a primary shooter rifle. Unless that person was dead set on only using iron sights. And even then I would try to talk them into the advantages offered by modern optics.
I like mine but it doesn't get shot very much.
https://i.imgur.com/HIc7kGs.jpg
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