View Full Version : Military M4A1 Barrel.
lanceriley
10-30-08, 12:27
What barrel profile does the military m4a1 barrels have?
is it the medium contour barrel? or is it the thinner govt profile barrel? ( this is with regards to barrel thickness under the handguard)
Some would say that it is govt profile and others would say it is the med contour.
What barrel profile does the military m4a1 barrels have?
is it the medium contour barrel? or is it the thinner govt profile barrel? ( this is with regards to barrel thickness under the handguard)
Some would say that it is govt profile and others would say it is the med contour.
Before 2000 = government profile
2000 to now = the medium profile.
lanceriley
10-30-08, 18:41
why did they shift from govt barrel to the med contour? the old m16a1 had a pencil barrel and they worked with full auto.
were there any problems with the old m4a1 govt profile? were there accuracy problems? over heating of barrel? didn't the railed handguards help in cooling?
the increase in accuracy to the medium contour barrel is that significant?
M4A1's can be ordered in either barrel profile by units.
The HB was developed since a segment of SOF was ruputuring their barrels with their excessive firing schedule.
lanceriley
10-30-08, 23:49
ah.. so up to today, there are still m4s running around with govt profile barrel .
was it the full auto firing that ruptured thier barrel?
IIRC - it takes more than 14 mags ripped off auto one after another to rupture.
More of a SAW usage than a Carbine...
telecustom
10-31-08, 10:32
Its not just the full auto, it was the higher volume of fire/daily round count. In an average day on a flat range, we put a little over 1k rounds though our weapons (depending on what firing table we are running).
ah.. so up to today, there are still m4s running around with govt profile barrel .
was it the full auto firing that ruptured thier barrel?
All M4 (not M4A1s) have a govt profile barrel.
lanceriley
10-31-08, 23:20
so when you say M4 it means govt profile 14.5 barrel with A2 carry handle right?
so all m4a1 are flat top with medium contour 14.5 barrel
is this correct? or were there m4a1's that had govt profile.? any body can refute or agree to this?
All new DoD M4A1's will come with the heavy 'SOCOM' bbl.
By the TM, the correct replacement bbl for an M4A1 is the heavy bbl.
A lot of SOF weapons are on a 'heavy use' cycle. The fire more rounds a year than your average unit might fire in 10 years.
lanceriley
11-01-08, 10:19
oh ok. just wanted to know if there ever was an M4A1 with govt barrel. making a build right now.
I know the new ones have socom barrel.
Oh yes!
All of the original M4A1's had the traditional M4 bbl. Many M4's in SOF units still have them. However, on replacement they get the new bbl.
lanceriley
11-02-08, 09:59
ah so All m4a1 come in govt profile barrel. and when they get a replacement... they get the socom barrel.
so basically no such thing as a bnew m4a1 with socom barrel.
All M4 (not M4A1s) have a govt profile barrel.
A slight OT -- would the barrel of an AR Colt LE6920/6921 be similar (or same) to the (military) M4? It has lesser weight on the specs sheet versus a Colt HBar (AR6721).
http://www.colt.com/law/lecarbine.asp
http://www.colt.com/law/ar15a3.asp
so basically no such thing as a bnew m4a1 with socom barrel.
Actually, I don't know that. I just know what I have seen in the Army.
so when you say M4 it means govt profile 14.5 barrel with A2 carry handle right?
no,
both M4 and M4A1 have a flat top upper...the main difference between the two is in the barrel profile (not always as said above) and the firing mode (burst vs fullauto).
an "M4" with fixed A2 carry handle is called "M16A2 Carbine - model 727"
lanceriley
11-07-08, 07:59
alright... so Im building an m4 :D and not an m4a1
alright... so Im building an m4 :D and not an m4a1
And if you are using USGI (or equivalent) parts they you will have a perfectly fine service grade rifle.
lanceriley
11-07-08, 09:45
usgi parts? you mean military surplus?
well.. my lower is from an m16a1. only the upper and barrel is bnew. barrel is cmmg and upper is DD. does this count as usgi equivalent?
spamsammich
11-07-08, 09:59
more or less. That barrel is probably not the mil spec metal, but it should be fine for a fun gun.
so when you say M4 it means govt profile 14.5 barrel with A2 carry handle right?
so all m4a1 are flat top with medium contour 14.5 barrel
is this correct? or were there m4a1's that had govt profile.? any body can refute or agree to this?
Every M4A1 made before 2000 has a govt profile barrel.
The SOCOM weight barrel came out in 2000.
All M4s and M4A1s are flattop.
If you were building an M4A1 now using 2008 parts, you would need a SOCOM weight barrel.
A gun that looks like an M4 but with a fixed A2 carry handle is Colt model 727 and is not a standard US military weapon.
lanceriley
11-07-08, 18:37
what do you mean using 2008 parts?? were parts different then in 2000?
Im just doing the replica of an m4 or m4a1. I know the lower reciever isn't right since it's from an m16a1 and not from an a2.
upper is DD... which is not right but probably close enough. rails of course is not right DD wasn't probably making rails at that time. and the barrel is a CMMG govt. CMMG I assume never made barrels for the military.
what do you mean using 2008 parts?? were parts different then in 2000?
Every other part is the same.
A gun that looks like an M4 but with a fixed A2 carry handle is Colt model 727 and is not a standard US military weapon.
Not to be contrary but you must have meant "not a standard US Army weapon." We have the GUU-5/P.
A gun that looks like an M4 but with a fixed A2 carry handle is Colt model 727 and is not a standard US military weapon.
Oh contrare,
1SFG had that specific config in an M4 in the late 90's
lanceriley
11-09-08, 22:30
the guu rifle is not an m4. since it has an a1 uppper reciever
the guu rifle is not an m4. since it has an a1 uppper reciever
Yeah It is the 1st M4s came with A1 uppers with m4 feed cuts.
And as far as A2's I remember see US Property marked Receivers that were marked M16A2/M4 M4 barrel A2 upper DOS had a bunch of them.
Second whats up Kev U home for good?
lanceriley
11-10-08, 03:28
but the GUU still used the pencil barrel with 1/12 twist. did they really have the m4 feed ramps??
I thought it was the m16a2 carbines that had the m4 feedramps.
spamsammich
11-10-08, 04:20
http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/USAFGdeCrb.html
lanceriley
11-10-08, 05:01
I don't think that website applies. the USAF rebuilt rifles. They were never designated as M4 or M4A1 rifle.
Al U. 5811
11-10-08, 06:20
Actually there were no "exact" specs to the GUU/GAU weapons. They are still floating around in a number of combinations. Parts, including barrel, were replaced as needed with what was on hand. Believe it or not I have not come across any current pubs addressing the use of an 'F' height FSB with any replacement barrels, if current M4 profile is used. Our last 4 GAU's went to Depot/DRMO/Big AF about 6 months ago despite my numbered written protests/requests to keep them on hand for training purposes. They were our Raven guns and got replaced with standard M4's. They got shipped with the old M870's when replaced by the M870MCS.
spamsammich
11-10-08, 12:51
I don't think that website applies. the USAF rebuilt rifles. They were never designated as M4 or M4A1 rifle.
I'm not really sure why the link wouldn't "qualify", but the link backs up sgtred's point that there was indeed a military rifle issued with the M4 barrel and A1/A2 type upper. May not have been called M4 or issued to the Army, but it exists. I pointed to it to show that not all of the GUU rifles have 1/12 twist pencil barrels, some are indeed step cut.
Oh contrare,
1SFG had that specific config in an M4 in the late 90's
Kevin,
I'm not going to rehash this topic with you on what defines an official US military weapon.
You have haggled myself and other experts on this and have been proven wrong every time.
Yeah It is the 1st M4s came with A1 uppers with m4 feed cuts.
And as far as A2's I remember see US Property marked Receivers that were marked M16A2/M4 M4 barrel A2 upper DOS had a bunch of them.
Incorrect.
Kevin,
I'm not going to rehash this topic with you on what defines an official US military weapon.
You have haggled myself and other experts on this and have been proven wrong every time.
Scott - the difference is when I have handled said gun in question and fired it on a qual - you may have a book that says this and that. However I am here to explain that what happens in the world - may be different that your book.
lanceriley
11-10-08, 17:39
I think an m4 barrel isn't what makes an m4.
Rifles that were desginated as m4 or m4a1 is the topic.
were these rifles designated as m4? or m4a1?
what if the usaf rebarelled them with shilen barrels?
Can you say that m4 comes in shilen barrel?
What if usaf used the vltor upper. can you say that m4 comes in vltor upper?
Scott - the difference is when I have handled said gun in question and fired it on a qual - you may have a book that says this and that. However I am here to explain that what happens in the world - may be different that your book.
There is no book that has any of this in it.
A M4 or M4A1 lower that is property marked with a fixed carry handle is not a M4 or M4A1. It is a mutt.
A lower that is marked M16A2 and has a fixed carry handle with M4 style barrel is a Colt 727. It is not an official US military weapon. I never said it was never used by the military as the Army and Navy both purchased these through commercial channels in 1989 and 1991.
This topic is very specific to what the OP is asking and your comments are not welcome. They are clouding the issue.
The OP is asking was makes a standard, factory, and official US military weapon.
I had 3 different Marines tell me how much an M16A2 rifle weighs last week. All 3 of them gave me different incorrect answers, but since they are in the "real world" I guess they are correct.:rolleyes:
lanceriley
11-11-08, 04:06
scottryan,
Thanks scott. You got what I was asking...
I wanted to know what is the specs of the weapon the military designated as m4 or m4a1. I assume m4a1 has some improvements to m4.
Designated is the word I used since it is the military the designated the name "m4" or "m4a1". Not colt designations or other company designations.
Thanks
There is no book that has any of this in it.
A M4 or M4A1 lower that is property marked with a fixed carry handle is not a M4 or M4A1. It is a mutt.
A lower that is marked M16A2 and has a fixed carry handle with M4 style barrel is a Colt 727. It is not an official US military weapon. I never said it was never used by the military as the Army and Navy both purchased these through commercial channels in 1989 and 1991.
This topic is very specific to what the OP is asking and your comments are not welcome. They are clouding the issue.
The OP is asking was makes a standard, factory, and official US military weapon.
I had 3 different Marines tell me how much an M16A2 rifle weighs last week. All 3 of them gave me different incorrect answers, but since they are in the "real world" I guess they are correct.:rolleyes:
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