View Full Version : NZSDF rifles receive new firing pins
MorphCross
09-26-18, 01:16
Apologies if this not the proper place to post this for discussion but it is an interesting read.
According to a New Zealand Herald Article (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12128131&ref=NZH_Tw) the LMT Mars-L rifles have received a fleet wide replacement of their firing pins. On top of that there were notes of cracking in the bolt carrier (not the bolt proper) as well as minor parts breakage experienced in the FCG.
I could see hammer springs failing at high round counts.
I can see one of the suppliers for LMT screwing up on the firing pins.
But cracking on the bolt carrier is a new one. Is it possible that the reporter who is probably not a "gun guy" mistook the carrier key bolts as a part of the carrier and ran with it or do you think it was an actual failure in the carrier itself?
It isn't like the MK262 they are issuing as their round is a M855A1 pressure round.
Trigger issue is probably disconnectors. As for the rest, it's anyone's guess since the American media can't most gun related stuff correct.
Apologies if this not the proper place to post this for discussion but it is an interesting read.
According to a New Zealand Herald Article (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12128131&ref=NZH_Tw) the LMT Mars-L rifles have received a fleet wide replacement of their firing pins. On top of that there were notes of cracking in the bolt carrier (not the bolt proper) as well as minor parts breakage experienced in the FCG.
I could see hammer springs failing at high round counts.
I can see one of the suppliers for LMT screwing up on the firing pins.
But cracking on the bolt carrier is a new one. Is it possible that the reporter who is probably not a "gun guy" mistook the carrier key bolts as a part of the carrier and ran with it or do you think it was an actual failure in the carrier itself?
It isn't like the MK262 they are issuing as their round is a M855A1 pressure round.
Send it...
09-26-18, 06:25
Interesting read
Trigger issue is probably disconnectors. As for the rest, it's anyone's guess since the American media can't most gun related stuff correct.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's the MIM gas keys!
Hammer_Man
09-26-18, 08:05
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's the MIM gas keys!
Does LMT use MIM gas keys on their enhanced bcgs?
Rifleman_04
09-26-18, 09:03
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's the MIM gas keys!
I doubt that.
My understanding is at one point LMT did use MIM gas keys but they were later changed back to the correct gas keys. I want to say it was a few years ago and not recently, but I could be wrong.
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Apologies if this not the proper place to post this for discussion but it is an interesting read.
According to a New Zealand Herald Article (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12128131&ref=NZH_Tw) the LMT Mars-L rifles have received a fleet wide replacement of their firing pins. On top of that there were notes of cracking in the bolt carrier (not the bolt proper) as well as minor parts breakage experienced in the FCG.
I could see hammer springs failing at high round counts.
I can see one of the suppliers for LMT screwing up on the firing pins.
But cracking on the bolt carrier is a new one. Is it possible that the reporter who is probably not a "gun guy" mistook the carrier key bolts as a part of the carrier and ran with it or do you think it was an actual failure in the carrier itself?
It isn't like the MK262 they are issuing as their round is a M855A1 pressure round.
Thanks for posting this. This is very interesting. I'll wait for more information (and probably more accurate information) to come out before jumping to any conclusions. If anyone finds out more information, please post it.
I find it hard to believe the bolt carrier bodies cracked. But I can see the gas key screws breaking and leading to cracked gas keys.
Does anyone know if these firing pins are supposed to be standard mil-spec , or are they specific to this gun?
Joe Mamma
Ventenberry
09-26-18, 18:08
I noticed the link for the Firearm Blog article is no longer working, page not found. I'm guessing maybe they heard from LMT and a request was put in to take the article down for inaccurate or disputed information. I'm also speculating that the original source New Zealand news article was perhaps a little overblown and or inaccurate as to the severity of the problem or what the problem or problems actually are.
After doing a little research it appears the New Zealanders are very happy with the rifle but wanted better than military spec. and once the "niggles" are worked out they will have the rifle the way they want it. Click on the link and scroll down to page 4 for an Army News article from New Zealand. http://army.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/army-news/armynews493.pdf
I'd like to know if my LMT firing pins are GTG now.
I'd like to know if my LMT firing pins are GTG now.
I originally read the article as meaning the 308 gun. While there is question as to what parts carryover, versus what are military contract parts, I would not get paranoid quite yet. LMT is known for making it very high-quality weapons.
MorphCross
09-28-18, 17:16
According to a statement (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/09/25/lmt-replaces-components-under-warranty-with-new-zealand-defense-forces/) (posted on The Firearm Blog as part of the original story) made by LMT, LMT did a wholesale replacement of all the firing pins as a simple matter of course rather than a warranty issue. The other components replaced in limited numbers were the selectors switches and carriers. Revealed in the statement was the breakages occurred in less than 1/10th of 1% of the 9040 rifle fleet.
For ease of consumption the full statement:
LMT Defense responds to The Firearm Blog Post
Milan, Illinois – September 27, 2018 – In 2015 Lewis Machine and Tool, LMT, was awarded the New Zealand Defence Force, NZDF, contract for the MARS-L rifle. This included the LMT monolithic rail platform rifle in 5.56 with the all new ambidextrous features. While this was the official release the Modular Ambidextrous Rifle System, the rifle had long been in the works and was in fact in final testing review stages. This rifle passed all testing to Mil-Spec standards, LMT standards and ultimately to NZDF standards. The rifle was thoroughly tested by a team of NZDF staff at LMT facilities and tested again in New Zealand.
We have long strived to provide the best customer service in the small arms industry. To this end we have provided NZDF with a warranty commensurate with international standards. However, we would like to clarify some misperceptions that may have been reported in the press. We recently did in fact replace all the firing pins in the NZDF MARS-L rifles that have been delivered. Although these rifles were under warranty, we would have replaced the firing pins regardless, out of an abundance of caution. A handful of firing pins [less than one tenth of one percent] were reported to break or have higher than expected wear after a high round count. We did a thorough analysis of the situation and determined that some firing pins were not tempered correctly by our heat treater. We therefore decided that in order to ensure all rifles had the highest quality firing pin we replaced them all. While replacing these firing pins it was determined there was a small quantity of selector switches and carriers [also less than one tenth of one percent] that showed some premature wear. These have been replaced to provide excellent customer service. We feel this is representative of the value we place on the partnership we have with NZDF.
We believe in exceeding our customer’s expectations and often exceed requirements of our warranty. Just meeting a warranty statement is not how we treat valued customers. We are proud of the product we have provided the NZDF and will stand by our product and be partners with them for the entire life cycle of the MARS-L. The feedback we have gotten from NZDF leadership and soldiers has been very positive and we will continue to provide the same level of responsiveness and customer service to keep it that way.
We uphold the highest level of customer service throughout the entire industry. We expect the best from our products and we know our customers do as well.
^^^
Ok, so the world isn’t ending?
Good.
MorphCross
09-28-18, 21:05
^^^
Ok, so the world isn’t ending?
Good.
Wait one moment. :looks out window:
Sun is still yellow, the sky hasn't fallen, and LMT Mars-L is still one of the best pick rifles of the 21st century (just in case anyone mistakes the purpose of my original or follow up posts).
I have two of the NZDF rifles. They only show one part number for 5.56 firing pins online.
Kudos to LMT both for the way they resolved the customer's concern and for being forthright about the issue and resolution. That's class.
^^^
Ok, so the world isn’t ending?
Good.
No kidding, a couple parts get replaced and it becomes a news story? It makes me wonder what is actually going on.
10,000 rifles.
1/10th of 1%= 10 rifles.
This whole post and reactionary posting of quality concerns is about 10 rifles.
EDIT: if my math is off, I blame the Idaho public schools.
According to a statement (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/09/25/lmt-replaces-components-under-warranty-with-new-zealand-defense-forces/) (posted on The Firearm Blog as part of the original story) made by LMT, LMT did a wholesale replacement of all the firing pins as a simple matter of course rather than a warranty issue. The other components replaced in limited numbers were the selectors switches and carriers. Revealed in the statement was the breakages occurred in less than 1/10th of 1% of the 9040 rifle fleet.
For ease of consumption the full statement:
Less than 1 / 10th of 1% of the 9040 rifles (9.04)? That's 9 rifles.
Why the big news story?
Point being, your stuff is perfect until it isn’t. You can buy quality and there is always a 0.00000X% chance that your weapon system will fail. Even with maintenance, if you get enough repetitions, you will have a failure with something.
Unless you can ID something to a known bad batch, just keep adding ammo & training.
MorphCross
09-29-18, 21:55
Point being, your stuff is perfect until it isn’t. You can buy quality and there is always a 0.00000X% chance that your weapon system will fail. Even with maintenance, if you get enough repetitions, you will have a failure with something.
Unless you can ID something to a known bad batch, just keep adding ammo & training.
Definitely. Also inspect your rifle in your downtime. Keep a rounds-fired logbook. Keep a set of spare parts around.
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