Remember When Ruger and S&W Screwed Us...?

[SteyrAUG]

Well everything old is new again.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/09/25/smith--wesson-loses-fight-with-nuns-on-gun-safety-proposal.html

They went public and a bunch of religious and anti gun wackos got enough control to forces changes that will undo all the efforts of both companies to repair their image since the Clinton 90s.

The maker of Smith & Wesson firearms lost a prolonged fight with religious groups and other shareholders who have been pushing it to consider a plan to help reduce the harmful effects of its products.

The investors, led by The Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility, presented a resolution on gun safety at American Outdoor Brand's annual shareholder meeting Tuesday, the same resolution it successfully passed at Sturm Ruger earlier this year. And the preliminary voting showed the shareholders also won this fight.

The proposal calls on American Outdoor Brands, Smith & Wesson's parent company, to put together a report on whether the gun maker is adequately addressing the risks that its products are associated with gun violence and to show evidence it is exploring ways to make safer guns and products to reduce this violence.

"Just one year ago, it was unthinkable that shareholders would demand that gun manufacturers examine their own role in America's gun violence epidemic," said Avery Gardiner, the co-president of the Brady Campaign, in a statement on Tuesday. "Now, it's becoming the norm."

American Federation of Teachers, the union representing 1.7 million educators and others, has also been pushing for measures to protect schools from gun violence and prevent teacher pensions from investing in assault weapon makers. It also backed the Interfaith Center's proposal. In a statement on Tuesday, AFT President Randi Weingarten said, "We continue to work with our pension funds and other institutional investors and take political action at the state and national levels to push for permanent change."

Of course alcohol producers, auto makers and pharmaceutical companies aren't being forced to investigate their products as it relates to criminal misuse.

I have an idea, want to make things safer? Find violent criminals and put them in jail and leave them there. Then find people with violent mental disorders and put them in supervised treatment until they are no longer a danger to other.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Well everything old is new again.
***
I have an idea, want to make things safer? Find violent criminals and put them in jail and leave them there.

It's not about making things safer for you, or your family. It's about your "betters" making things safer for the people intended to replace you.

[223to45]

Sounds like a good reason to buy back all the stick and go private again.



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[Vgex2]

Don't worry. As long as the 5 or 6 people at the top get paid, they wouldnt care if they stopped making firearms all together. Core values are making money not firearms.

[MorphCross]

Did they learn nothing?! Did they learn nothing?! Forgiveness only happens once per generation and screwing over their core consumer base along with their competitors a second time is a straight shot to the trash heap. May the chains of their oppressors drag them down to their own ruin.

[SteyrAUG]

Did they learn nothing?! Did they learn nothing?! Forgiveness only happens once per generation and screwing over their core consumer base along with their competitors a second time is a straight shot to the trash heap. May the chains of their oppressors drag them down to their own ruin.

Honestly it took a LONG time for me to get over it.

S&W required dealers to sign agreements that they wouldn't do gun shows where private sales occurred (which meant all of them) and that you'd apply the same practices to every other firearm you sold. I sent my Dealer Application back to them with "F - Off" written in large red sharpie letters. And honestly I haven't sold a S&W product since then. Glock makes a better handgun and Colt makes a better AR and the only S&W guns that interest me a P&R guns which they haven't made in decades.

It's a shame about Ruger, they managed to blame it all on the old man and get forgiven, and since then I've bought a few things and was looking at some of their take down rifles, but screw them. I've got my security six, SP101, Redhawk, Mark III and a few suppressed 10/22s so I really don't need anything else. They got hijacked by extremists so let the company starve and let those shareholders lose everything.

One of my favorite Ruger firearms is a side folding stock "LE Only" Mini 14 GB, which from a practical standpoint is pretty useless, but I know it would have driven Bill Ruger nuts to have them out in the wild.

But get ready for S&W to start dumping major piles of cash into SMART gun and SAFE gun technology again. I'm not going to fund that shit and neither should anyone else.

I hope this is a wakeup call to every other manufacturer that has gone public, hostile takeovers are in the works.

[MorphCross]

This makes purchasing pistols like the Hudson 9 along with other small Boutique-ish manufacturers and custom shops easier if you want domestic owned and manufactured. Here is to hoping Colt smells blood in the water and produces a new pistol design.

[223to45]

But get ready for S&W to start dumping major piles of cash into SMART gun and SAFE gun technology again. I'm not going to fund that shit and neither should anyone else.
.

Didn't S&W already try that once before??


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[223to45]

I thought the only thing roger would agree too is making the report??

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[Doc Safari]

Well, I get to the point that I don't think you can fix wussification any more than you can fix stupidity. It's not surprising this happened again.

Watch Colt go back to no bayo lugs, receiver blocks, wrong-sized pins, and all kinds of other nonsense.

[26 Inf]

Well everything old is new again.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/09/25/smith--wesson-loses-fight-with-nuns-on-gun-safety-proposal.html

They went public and a bunch of religious and anti gun wackos got enough control to forces changes that will undo all the efforts of both companies to repair their image since the Clinton 90s.

The maker of Smith & Wesson firearms lost a prolonged fight with religious groups and other shareholders who have been pushing it to consider a plan to help reduce the harmful effects of its products.

The investors, led by The Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility, presented a resolution on gun safety at American Outdoor Brand's annual shareholder meeting Tuesday, the same resolution it successfully passed at Sturm Ruger earlier this year. And the preliminary voting showed the shareholders also won this fight.

The proposal calls on American Outdoor Brands, Smith & Wesson's parent company, to put together a report on whether the gun maker is adequately addressing the risks that its products are associated with gun violence and to show evidence it is exploring ways to make safer guns and products to reduce this violence.

"Just one year ago, it was unthinkable that shareholders would demand that gun manufacturers examine their own role in America's gun violence epidemic," said Avery Gardiner, the co-president of the Brady Campaign, in a statement on Tuesday. "Now, it's becoming the norm."

American Federation of Teachers, the union representing 1.7 million educators and others, has also been pushing for measures to protect schools from gun violence and prevent teacher pensions from investing in assault weapon makers. It also backed the Interfaith Center's proposal. In a statement on Tuesday, AFT President Randi Weingarten said, "We continue to work with our pension funds and other institutional investors and take political action at the state and national levels to push for permanent change."

Of course alcohol producers, auto makers and pharmaceutical companies aren't being forced to investigate their products as it relates to criminal misuse.

I have an idea, want to make things safer? Find violent criminals and put them in jail and leave them there. Then find people with violent mental disorders and put them in supervised treatment until they are no longer a danger to other.

SteyrAUG I know you will get what I'm saying, but......

Faced with this stuff, I recommend voting with your wallet.

Aside from that, what The Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility did with the investors on the Ruger and S&W deals is a perfectly legal, and intelligent strategy. It is the same thing we should be doing in defense of the 2nd Amendment.

I don't think you are going to get many corporate boards to tell a group that has the support of, or, control of, a large large block of shareholders/shares, to piss off. That is the reality.

As I said, they did what we should be doing. We should be working to gather like-minded folks and their assets into a powerful block. There are funds that cater to teachers, gays, etc. Does one exist for gun-owners? Do we have folks organized, going door to door with petitions to show public support of our rights?

As you know we don't. For the most part, the organizations that we might count on to lead us in this battle are too busy trying to scare us into putting more money into their war chests and putting irrelevant, ethically questionable people in positions of leadership.

Instead, we spend our time denigrating those who don't think like us for being more effective at executing the game plan and rallying their troops.

Then we speak of using force of arms to save the nation. From what? Nobody is taking over the government without a vote. At the present we hold the Executive Branch and the Legislative Branch, it is ours to lose.

And when we lose, it won't be our fault, it'll be the fault of illegal voters stealing the election, even though there is no documented proof of that ever occurring.

We'll piss and moan about it for a while. Someone will talk about the tree of liberty needing watered with blood, even though apparently the majority of the free people of our Nation have exercised their liberty by voting for the candidates who won.

And we'll go on.....

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

It’s not the company, it is a faction of the people that own stock, right? I bet a lot of people didn’t vote, and those that did were the social conscious types.

Maybe I’m just to used to writing reports, but you give me that task and I’ll make it come out the way we want. The guns are perfectly safe. They are used by rational people to defend themselves from people that are damaged by our society and lack of values. You can’t engineer that problem away with a plastic bit.

Seriously, hire me as a consultant to write it and I’ll have it so that the only way to save America is to make it so that everyone has to own a gun with ‘hi-cap’ magazines.

[SteyrAUG]

I thought the only thing roger would agree too is making the report??

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They agreed to make a report investigating how firearms impact violent crime. That's like the porn industry agreeing to make a report investigating how adult material is related to sexual assault.

If you want to buy their products to fund a witch hunt brought about by a hostile takeover that is up to you.

If a similar church group bought up stock and took over an adult video company people everywhere would lose their minds over the "first amendment" onslaught.

[NYH1]

Did they learn nothing?! Did they learn nothing?! Forgiveness only happens once per generation and screwing over their core consumer base along with their competitors a second time is a straight shot to the trash heap. May the chains of their oppressors drag them down to their own ruin.
Exactly!

NYH1.

[26 Inf]

It’s not the company, it is a faction of the people that own stock, right? I bet a lot of people didn’t vote, and those that did were the social conscious types.

As you know, most of the stock is probably owned by funds and the folks who invest in those funds generally give the fund their proxy to vote their shares.

I don't know if it was all social conscience type action on behalf of the funds - could be the fund guys think that this will move the stock prices in a way that benefits them.

They might believe this: (Sister Judy Byron) said the move could be key to the company's survival. Recent mass shootings in the U.S. have involved American Outdoor Brands products, she said, exposing the company and shareholders to boycotts, protests and negative publicity.

She's running a good game for her team, as I mentioned earlier.

Sister Judy Byron, who presented the proposal on behalf of the 11 shareholder groups that backed it, said the move could be key to the company's survival. Recent mass shootings in the U.S. have involved American Outdoor Brands products, she said, exposing the company and shareholders to boycotts, protests and negative publicity. American Outdoor Brands, she said, "is obligated to help find these solutions."

The religious groups got a boost of momentum this year from big fund companies like BlackRock, which sided with them in the Sturm Ruger vote and cast its 2.8 million shares in favor of the proposal. BlackRock and Vanguard are Sturm Ruger's and American Outdoor's biggest shareholders by virtue of their large index fund businesses.

Major shareholder voting advisory firms Institutional Shareholder Services and Glass Lewis also supported the proposal's passage.

Maybe I’m just to used to writing reports, but you give me that task and I’ll make it come out the way we want. The guns are perfectly safe. They are used by rational people to defend themselves from people that are damaged by our society and lack of values. You can’t engineer that problem away with a plastic bit.

Seriously, hire me as a consultant to write it and I’ll have it so that the only way to save America is to make it so that everyone has to own a gun with ‘hi-cap’ magazines.

Seriously, you are an articulate, bright guy, take the helm, start an organized petition drive to collect signatures and data ON BOTH SIDES of the 2A issue. I truly believe we could prove overwhelming support for the 2A and firearms ownership. The average American gets it, they just don't feel they have as big a stake as we do.

[wildcard600]

The religious groups got a boost of momentum this year from big fund companies like BlackRock, which sided with them in the Sturm Ruger vote and cast its 2.8 million shares in favor of the proposal. BlackRock and Vanguard are Sturm Ruger's and American Outdoor's biggest shareholders by virtue of their large index fund businesses.

This right here is what is most disturbing to me. Almost makes a guy want to start stuffing his money into a mattress.

[RazorBurn]

They agreed to make a report investigating how firearms impact violent crime. That's like the porn industry agreeing to make a report investigating how adult material is related to sexual assault.

If you want to buy their products to fund a witch hunt brought about by a hostile takeover that is up to you.

If a similar church group bought up stock and took over an adult video company people everywhere would lose their minds over the "first amendment" onslaught.

This is the perfect analogy for this. I'm proud to say that I don't own a thing from either company, and don't plan to either. I'm still amazed at how many have forgotten the betrayal of the Second Amendment by the first George Bush many years ago.


This right here is what is most disturbing to me. Almost makes a guy want to start stuffing his money into a mattress.

I know a lot of people like my Grandparents who grew up during the Great Depression who buried their hard earned money in different places. They didn't trust anyone but themselves. I know a few people who still do so today. I can't say that I blame them because when the bubble truly bursts it is gonna get real ugly real fast.

[SteyrAUG]

I know a lot of people like my Grandparents who grew up during the Great Depression who buried their hard earned money in different places. They didn't trust anyone but themselves. I know a few people who still do so today. I can't say that I blame them because when the bubble truly bursts it is gonna get real ugly real fast.

Hell I know plenty of people who got wiped out and never recovered when the dot com bubble bursts and their 401ks that they had been paying into for thirty years were now worth 25% of their value the previous year. Unfortunately for them that is when they were retiring so their income came to an end and they had to depend on an investment that had just been wiped out.

And the dot com bubble was just a blip compared to what could happen.

Then there was the housing market crash. Remember the sage advice "buy real estate because god isn't making any more"? Well if you are buying it for the short term with the intention of installing a few granite counter tops, new appliances and a fresh coat of paint and then doubling or tripling your investment at some point you got a rude wake up call and found out the three or four "flip houses" you just bought were worth 30% of what you just paid and it would take 20 years for them to recover to anything close to your purchase price. I know people who lost everything just and had nothing left but a handful of shitty houses in shitty neighborhoods that they owed a LOT of money on.

If anything like the Wall Street crash and depression of the 1930s happened today everything would come apart. Almost nobody is set up to weather that storm and we'd quickly devolve into South America.

[Averageman]

They are dead to me, simply dead, I wont buy any of their new products ever again.

[Arik]

I'll just do my usual and stick to the second hand market.

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[ThirdWatcher]

... If a similar church group bought up stock and took over an adult video company people everywhere would lose their minds over the "first amendment" onslaught.

+1 Nailed it.

IMHO this “church group” has nothing to do with (my brand of) Christianity. Not interested in starting a religious debate but I don’t see crap (or any form of censorship) having any positive effect on free will. This is just more libtard garbage wrapped in a cloak of “religious freedom”.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Glock makes a better handgun and Colt makes a better AR and the only S&W guns that interest me a P&R guns which they haven't made in decades.

And that is where I'm at, same for Ruger. I never would have purchased a Ruger semiauto centerfire handgun or one of their AR's. And S&W have not made anything I am interested in for decades. Old school wheel guns and M76's (all on the secondary market) are the only things of their's I would ever acquire.

Now that they've joined forces with leftist American Taliban disarmament pushers, ****'em.

[Moose-Knuckle]

+1 Nailed it.

IMHO this “church group” has nothing to do with (my brand of) Christianity. Not interested in starting a religious debate but I don’t see crap (or any form of censorship) having any positive effect on free will. This is just more libtard garbage wrapped in a cloak of “religious freedom”.


"Christianity" like everything else has been hijacked and politicized by the left in this country. Not to derail this thread, but these "interfaith groups" and "teacher unions" are straight out of Alinky's playbook and the Cloward-Piven strategy. Follow their taxpayer funding trail via .gov programs created by our friends in the DNC.

[ThirdWatcher]

"Christianity" like everything else has been hijacked and politicized by the left in this country. Not to derail this thread, but these "interfaith groups" and "teacher unions" are straight out of Alinky's playbook and the Cloward-Piven strategy. Follow their taxpayer funding trail via .gov programs created by our friends in the DNC.

+1. I believe you’re right. These groups are an abomination and I won’t spend any money supporting them.