View Full Version : Winchester White Box 9mm 124g NATO
There's some online sales going on with this particular ammo. Decently reliable or something to avoid?
I’ve not had problems, but my Sigs and HK’s have not been particular.
Good luck.
PB
Straight Shooter
10-12-18, 15:59
I shot many, many thousands of rounds of this over the past several years- 100% reliable, accurate ammo. Ive got about 3000 on tap now.
PSA has THE best price...$179 SHIPPED for 1000. Brownells has it too in an ammo can for I think $199...great deal too.
I use it as practice ammo because it is +p and matches my carry loads of 124gr +P GD or HST..hits to same POA in my G17/19.
Cant find my chrono notes just now- but it always chrono's the same over time, and again , is a +P level load. Best range ammo out there ,in my opinion.
I shot many, many thousands of rounds of this over the past several years- 100% reliable, accurate ammo. Ive got about 3000 on tap now.
PSA has THE best price...$179 SHIPPED for 1000. Brownells has it too in an ammo can for I think $199...great deal too.
I use it as practice ammo because it is +p and matches my carry loads of 124gr +P GD or HST..hits to same POA in my G17/19.
Cant find my chrono notes just now- but it always chrono's the same over time, and again , is a +P level load. Best range ammo out there ,in my opinion.
I think you can typically get it down to $180 shipped from Brownells if you wait for a code, like they have today. I’m not supposed to be buying anymore gun stuff for a bit but I’ve been very tempted by that stuff as I also carry 124 +P GD and have a comp’d KKM.
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Q4318 is my everyday-carry ammo, so I'm betting my life on it. It's a bit snappier than regular 9mm stuff and inspires confidence that it'll cycle reliably.
I’ve shot a few thousand rounds of it with no issues through Berettas and Glocks. Uni-Vibe is right that its a little hotter than most ball ammo.
nightchief
10-13-18, 05:14
I think you can typically get it down to $180 shipped from Brownells if you wait for a code, like they have today. I’m not supposed to be buying anymore gun stuff for a bit but I’ve been very tempted by that stuff as I also carry 124 +P GD and have a comp’d KKM.
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Win 9mm Nato works very well with the comp'd KKM/Roland combo. I also use it as training ammo with a comp'd G19. I haven't had any issues quality wise.
If you need ammo cans, Brownells sells it in a 50cal can and all the boxes are M882 marked.
As mentioned Brownells gives $20 off $200 or 10% off often.
I reload & I have several thousands of 9mm brass waiting to be reloaded, but the price of 9mm practice ammo the last few years makes reloading it hardly worth the time. So.......I just bought another 1000 of the NATO 9mm 124gr from PSA.
I buy that regularly and it is really good.
Street Dog
10-13-18, 09:48
My go to practice and training ammo. Good to go.
Only drawback is that the primer are crimped and the crimp must be reamed or swaged out before reloading.
I have a primer pocket swager but I don't bother with these cases because I already have piles of nine that don't have the crimp. I just decap 'em and put 'em in the scrap bucket.
But again, I depend on Q4318 to stay alive in the big city. Good stuff.
556BlackRifle
10-13-18, 17:45
I love 9mm NATO. It's always worked for me and it's my favorite range round. I buy it whenever I can.
0 issues through a couple thousand rounds, almost all in competition, winning several. I do not notice any difference in recoil, but I am 6’4” and 285lbs, with XL hands.
0 issues through a couple thousand rounds, almost all in competition, winning several. I do not notice any difference in recoil, but I am 6’4” and 285lbs, with XL hands.
I'm 5'10" 180 pounds, with at least XL hands, more likely XXL. Q4318 recoil is just a tad snappier than SAAMI spec feels like. It's confidence-inspiring, but won't slow your shooting down.
[QUOTE=Uni-Vibe;2666722]Only drawback is that the primer are crimped and the crimp must be reamed or swaged out before reloading.
I have a primer pocket swager but I don't bother with these cases because I already have piles of nine that don't have the crimp. I just decap 'em and put 'em in the scrap bucket
How does this compare to the MEN 124 gr nato?
nightchief
10-16-18, 17:03
How does this compare to the MEN 124 gr nato?
I believe the Winchester is "hotter" as in its American Nato spec which is similar in pressure to +P ammo. The MEN is European Nato Spec, which is a lower pressure, though not as low as say Blazer 115gr. I have shot quite a bit of the MEN 124gr Nato, including through a comp'd G19 and it runs ok. Blazer, as a comparison would cause failures to eject (stovepipes) and failures to feed. The MEN is very good ammo IMO.
[QUOTE=Uni-Vibe;2666722]Only drawback is that the primer are crimped and the crimp must be reamed or swaged out before reloading.
I have a primer pocket swager but I don't bother with these cases because I already have piles of nine that don't have the crimp. I just decap 'em and put 'em in the scrap bucket
How does this compare to the MEN 124 gr nato?
The MEN cases I've seen are not crimped.
nightchief
10-16-18, 18:27
[QUOTE=Pi3;2667680]
The MEN cases I've seen are not crimped.
Not crimped, though looks like they are lacquer sealed
54218
A little off topic: what practice ammo is close to but not hotter than Federal HST 9mm 147 gr?
Is the white box hotter? Is the MEN a lot milder? I've gone thru 500 rounds of the MEN without incident. Never compared it side by side with the hst.
parishioner
10-25-18, 18:06
A little off topic: what practice ammo is close to but not hotter than Federal HST 9mm 147 gr?
Is the white box hotter? Is the MEN a lot milder? I've gone thru 500 rounds of the MEN without incident. Never compared it side by side with the hst.
That’s what I carry and I just got my 1000rds of WWB 124 Nato in today from PSA. I can let you know but I wont be getting to the range until the second week of November.
nightchief
10-25-18, 18:36
That’s what I carry and I just got my 1000rds of WWB 124 Nato in today from PSA. I can let you know but I wont be getting to the range until the second week of November.
There is Winchester White box and Winchester Nato...they are different. Nato is higher pressure, similar to +P. MEN 124 Nato is hotter than your average range 9mm, like Magtech, Blazer, etc., but not as hot Winchester 9mm Nato. I can't give exact numbers, as I have never chronographed 9mm, but, with a comp'd G19, it runs fine with the factory spring when shooting 124 HST, 124 HST +P, 124 Gold Dot, 124 Gold Dot +P, 124 Winchester 9mm Nato. It needs a 13lb recoil spring if attempting to use 115 gr practice ammo from Blazer, Magtech, Amer Eagle and Winchester White box. Otherwise, I get a lot of malfunction practice.
I have shot close to 10K of the MEN 124 Nato with no issues. Very good stuff. The Germans are "pretty good" and making guns and ammo!
Straight Shooter
10-25-18, 19:09
My range notes, from my chrono & my guns:
G19 with Winchester NATO 124fmj-10 rounds
HI:1131
LOW:1076
ES:55
AVE:1111
G19 with Federal 124 +P HST-10 rounds
HI:1202
LOW:1150
ES:52
AVE:1181
G19 with MEN 124 fmj-10 rounds
HI:1054
LOW:1019
ES:35
AVE:1037
NOTE: Cleanest, shiniest ammo Ive ever seen, both cosmetically & after firing.
G19 with Speer Gold Dot 124 +P-10 rounds
HI:1187
LOW:1147
ES:40
AVE:1165
G17 with MEN 124 NATO-10 rounds
HI:1085
LOW:1069
ES:35
AVE:1085
NOTE: This MEN NATO shoots LIGHTS OUT ACCURATE in my G19 & G17.
G17 with Federal 124 +P HST-10 rounds
HI:1234
LOW:1222
ES:12
AVE:1228
Note: VERY accurate in my G19 & G17.
Hope this helps. My opinion- MEN & Winchester NATO are TOPS for training & range, and I wouldnt be at all upset to use it as a defense load if pushed.
The Federal HST +P 124 is VERY accurate in my guns..Ive shot out to 50 yards several times, no problems.
As an aside- Im also a huge fan of the MEN 5.56 NATO loads too.
nightchief
10-25-18, 19:24
My opinion- MEN & Winchester NATO are TOPS for training & range, and I wouldnt be at all upset to use it as a defense load if pushed.
The Federal HST +P 124 is VERY accurate in my guns..Ive shot out to 50 yards several times, no problems.
As an aside- Im also a huge fan of the MEN 5.56 NATO loads too.
Boy do we need a "like" button! Agree with everything you said...
Thanks for the chrono data!
parishioner
10-25-18, 19:43
There is Winchester White box and Winchester Nato...they are different.
I know what you mean. However the nato box does state that it’s “WWB” and it’s also the title of the thread.
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nightchief
10-25-18, 19:57
I know what you mean. However the nato box does state that it’s “WWB” and it’s also the title of the thread.
Roger. Sorry if my previous post came off wrong, wasn't my intent. Not sure all are aware there is more than one "white box" product.
Straight Shooter
10-25-18, 20:04
Boy do we need a "like" button! Agree with everything you said...
Thanks for the chrono data!
You are most welcome!
parishioner
10-25-18, 20:18
Roger. Sorry if my previous post came off wrong, wasn't my intent. Not sure all are aware there is more than one "white box" product.
Not at all. All good man.
And SS, quality post!
My range notes, from my chrono & my guns:
G19 with MEN 124 fmj-10 rounds
HI:1054
LOW:1019
ES:35
AVE:1037
NOTE: Cleanest, shiniest ammo Ive ever seen, both cosmetically & after firing.
G19 with Speer Gold Dot 124 +P-10 rounds
HI:1187
LOW:1147
ES:40
AVE:1037
Is there a typo with the average for the Gold Dots?
Straight Shooter
10-25-18, 20:28
A little off topic: what practice ammo is close to but not hotter than Federal HST 9mm 147 gr?
Is the white box hotter? Is the MEN a lot milder? I've gone thru 500 rounds of the MEN without incident. Never compared it side by side with the hst.
Not at all. All good man.
And SS, quality post!
Thanks parishioner!
Here is info on Federal 147 HST out of my G17-10 rounds
HI:1015
LOW 982
ES:33
AVE:998
G19 with Federal 147 +P- 10 rounds
HI:1027
LOW:995
ES:32
AVE:1011
G19 with Federal 147 HST
HI:1001
LOW:977
ES:24
AVE:987
Only about 24fps faster is the +P load than standard pressure.
ADDED: Im finding across the board, that HST's are more accurate than Gold Dots in my guns, my hands, by a fair margin. All carry mags are loaded with HST +P 124's, but I have and will continue to use & buy Gold Dots, as they are still very accurate also.
Straight Shooter
10-25-18, 20:30
Is there a typo with the average for the Gold Dots?
GOOD CATCH! YES...Sorry...it should be AVE:1165...THANKS! Ill correct in my post.
Thanks for all the info Straight S.
How does felt recoil compare: 147gr heavier but slower than 124gr?
shadowrider
10-25-18, 21:35
To add a little HST and short barrel data:
M&P 9 Shield with Federal 147 +P HST
HI: 1010
LOW: 962
ES: 48
AVE: 980.5
M&P 9 Shield with Speer 124 +P Gold Dot
HI: 1143
LOW: 1085
ES: 58
AVE: 1118.3
Straight Shooter
10-25-18, 21:51
Thanks for all the info Straight S.
How does felt recoil compare: 147gr heavier but slower than 124gr?
Brother- I cant tell a nickles worth of diff. Firing at speed, double taps, and/or in a life/death situ...to me just aint noticeable.
MAYBE one handed, slow fire, target type shooting, but even then it wouldnt be nothin to get spun up over. If I had to carry 147's, it would be the standard pressure load, and Id grin & be happy & confident.
Thanks SHADOWRIDER for that info- I shoot my gf's Shield alot-LOVE IT-but havent chronoed it yet.
Thanks for all the info Straight S.
How does felt recoil compare: 147gr heavier but slower than 124gr?
147 should be lighter on the recoil because its a heavier round. A lot of people like it for competition because its flat shooting. At least that's my understanding, I've only ever shot 115 and 124.
shadowrider
10-25-18, 23:01
Brother- I cant tell a nickles worth of diff. Firing at speed, double taps, and/or in a life/death situ...to me just aint noticeable.
MAYBE one handed, slow fire, target type shooting, but even then it wouldnt be nothin to get spun up over. If I had to carry 147's, it would be the standard pressure load, and Id grin & be happy & confident.
Thanks SHADOWRIDER for that info- I shoot my gf's Shield alot-LOVE IT-but havent chronoed it yet.
I'm really "intrigued" by the Sig P365, but the Shield is such a great gun, I can't drop it just yet. Maybe when the bugs are all worked out and are behind it a ways I'll try one.
@Pi3 In the smaller platform of the Shield The 147 +P is just as snappy as the 124 +P maybe slightly more. I have 2 mags of +P HST left and since they aren't currently running it I'm switching to standard pressure when it's gone. 147 standard pressure is definitely softer in the lighter shorter gun than 124s or 115s. In my 9 Pro for USPSA the +P 124s are snappier than 147s. It's noticeable but honestly if you put a timer on it I doubt anyone but the GM level USPSA shooter would see a difference in splits. In full size guns I run 124 +P and short barrel guns get 147 of either variety. HST is my goto but GD or Ranger T is fine by me. I'm not picky as long as the gun isn't.
I shot many, many thousands of rounds of this over the past several years- 100% reliable, accurate ammo. Ive got about 3000 on tap now.
PSA has THE best price...$179 SHIPPED for 1000. Brownells has it too in an ammo can for I think $199...great deal too.
I use it as practice ammo because it is +p and matches my carry loads of 124gr +P GD or HST..hits to same POA in my G17/19.
Cant find my chrono notes just now- but it always chrono's the same over time, and again , is a +P level load. Best range ammo out there ,in my opinion.
Still the best price at $179 shipped, just ordered some more from PSA.
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My range notes, from my chrono & my guns:
G19 with Winchester NATO 124fmj-10 rounds
HI:1131
LOW:1076
ES:55
AVE:1111
G19 with Federal 124 +P HST-10 rounds
HI:1202
LOW:1150
ES:52
AVE:1181
G19 with MEN 124 fmj-10 rounds
HI:1054
LOW:1019
ES:35
AVE:1037
NOTE: Cleanest, shiniest ammo Ive ever seen, both cosmetically & after firing.
G19 with Speer Gold Dot 124 +P-10 rounds
HI:1187
LOW:1147
ES:40
AVE:1165
G17 with MEN 124 NATO-10 rounds
HI:1085
LOW:1069
ES:35
AVE:1085
NOTE: This MEN NATO shoots LIGHTS OUT ACCURATE in my G19 & G17.
G17 with Federal 124 +P HST-10 rounds
HI:1234
LOW:1222
ES:12
AVE:1228
Note: VERY accurate in my G19 & G17.
Hope this helps. My opinion- MEN & Winchester NATO are TOPS for training & range, and I wouldnt be at all upset to use it as a defense load if pushed.
The Federal HST +P 124 is VERY accurate in my guns..Ive shot out to 50 yards several times, no problems.
As an aside- Im also a huge fan of the MEN 5.56 NATO loads too.
Thanks a bunch! I was going to do something like this, and you saved me the trouble. Confirms what I've read, and what I suspected from firing it: It's about halfway between standard SAAMI stuff, and the +P stuff. I'm assuming the data would be similar with the Ruger SR9, which is about the barrel length of the G19.
And I do indeed carry Winchester Q4318 124 grain NATO fmj as my every day carry load.
Palmetto has Q4318 $8.99, free shipping with 1000 + rounds.
Expires 11-12.
I snagged 20 boxes just now. Great stuff. (Brass is good for reloading, except the primers are military-crimped. That's OK with me; I have ammo boxes of commercial 9mm cases if I want to reload.)
https://palmettostatearmory.com/winchester-usa-9mm-nato-124gr-fmj-ammunition-50rds-q4318.html
Palmetto has Q4318 $8.99, free shipping with 1000 + rounds.
Expires 11-12.
I snagged 20 boxes just now. Great stuff. (Brass is good for reloading, except the primers are military-crimped. That's OK with me; I have ammo boxes of commercial 9mm cases if I want to reload.)
https://palmettostatearmory.com/winchester-usa-9mm-nato-124gr-fmj-ammunition-50rds-q4318.html
Same here. I got 20 boxes a couple weeks ago & just ordered another 20 boxes yesterday. I can reload practice ammo for less than that, but not for much less, so I choose to spend my time shooting & not reloading if I can help it.
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