View Full Version : Rob Leatham on Aiming
Interesting vid from Rob Leatham on aiming. Made sense to me more or less, but #1 rule "hold the gun really tight" was not always as I have approached it. That is, if I hold the fun in a death grip, it causes shaking and or much faster shooting fatigue. So, tight enough to keep positive control, not so tight it causes (me at least) problems. I assume that's what he meant, but "hold the gun really tight" does not seem terribly useful info unless the person knows what he's saying, and the vid seems targeted at those who would not know what he means, and attempt to hod the gun in a death grip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0rGtXh23I
Even if you shake, its not going to throw shots off at 7yds, not handling recoil might.
Not saying you should grip that tight, just offering perspecitve.
If you dead-fish hold the gun, you wont be accurate, and you wont be fast.
Same if you cant manipulate the trigger without moving the pistol.
I personally dont have a #1 rule. Grip and trigger control are equally important at the top.
I believe most people can point shoot effectively at extreme close range, so sight picture is next.
Definately a good video though.
Even if you shake, its not going to throw shots off at 7yds, not handling recoil might.
Not saying you should grip that tight, just offering perspecitve.
If you dead-fish hold the gun, you wont be accurate, and you wont be fast.
Same if you cant manipulate the trigger without moving the pistol.
I personally dont have a #1 rule. Grip and trigger control are equally important at the top.
I believe most people can point shoot effectively at extreme close range, so sight picture is next.
Definately a good video though.
Another member (26 Inf?) said in another thread “everyone is a gunfighter at 7 yards”. Reason being that the shooting fundamentals have little effect at that range. That being said, grip, trigger control and sight alignment are the top three in shooting accurately. As far as a hard grip I put a tight “squeeze” on the front and back straps with little to no pressure on the sides.
Dandy video, Ive watched several times.
PB
titsonritz
10-13-18, 14:03
I was at a pistol course a couple weekends ago and the instructor played this video for us during one of the breaks.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-13-18, 15:22
Another member (26 Inf?) said in another thread “everyone is a gunfighter at 7 yards”. Reason being that the shooting fundamentals have little effect at that range. That being said, grip, trigger control and sight alignment are the top three in shooting accurately. As far as a hard grip I put a tight “squeeze” on the front and back straps with little to no pressure on the sides.
Ever been at a public indoor range and seen the targets at 7 yards? Ugh. Everyone is a shooter, fighting the gun may be a better name than a gun fighter.
I think the biggest thing from Rob's video is that accurate shooting and fast shooting are two different techniques. Hard holding the gun is inherently needed for a fast follow-up shot. In slow accurate shooting getting the gun lined up and breaking the shot are more important- or that is what I take away from how it seems easier to shoot a 1911 accurately with one hand versus two.
I think hard holding also helps to fight flinching.
Also the fact that the gun is going to shoot where it is going to shoot- it doesn't give a crap about the sights or the shooter. The sear breaks and the shot goes where the barrel is pointed.
Rob was what, 20-25 yards from the target? I thought I counted about that many steps.
Ever been at a public indoor range and seen the targets at 7 yards? Ugh. Everyone is a shooter, fighting the gun may be a better name than a gun fighter.
I think the biggest thing from Rob's video is that accurate shooting and fast shooting are two different techniques. Hard holding the gun is inherently needed for a fast follow-up shot. In slow accurate shooting getting the gun lined up and breaking the shot are more important- or that is what I take away from how it seems easier to shoot a 1911 accurately with one hand versus two.
I think hard holding also helps to fight flinching.
Also the fact that the gun is going to shoot where it is going to shoot- it doesn't give a crap about the sights or the shooter. The sear breaks and the shot goes where the barrel is pointed.
Rob was what, 20-25 yards from the target? I thought I counted about that many steps.
Unless your Rob Leatham ...
Id love to pick his brain about the accurate vs fast thing.
I focus more on grip consistency and aiming, but everything else is the same. Maybe Im doing it wrong?
Bill Rogers says essentially the same thing. Like Leatham, he also said he believes you should teach speed first then precision.
Expounding a little bit on my 'everyone's a gunfighter at 7 yards' statement - I've noticed that most shooters don't want to suck, so they spend their time doing things they don't suck at. For most of them this means they prefer to shoot up close and feel good about the results. (please note - I'm not necessarily talking about folks on this forum)
Coal Dragger
10-13-18, 18:03
I think you’re right about that.
I get many many strange looks on the pistol range when I take my target and set it up at 50 yards.
Id love to pick his brain about the accurate vs fast thing.
I focus more on grip consistency and aiming, but everything else is the same. Maybe Im doing it wrong?
No, you’re not.
Ditto dudes wanting to practice what they already own; fast and close.
Path to mastery is practicing what you suck at- and properly.
I think you’re right about that.
I get many many strange looks on the pistol range when I take my target and set it up at 50 yards.
Because pistols are for close range/bad breath distance only.
Because anything else couldn't be justifiable deadly force.
Because sight radius.
Because pistols aren't accurate.
Because "the only reason to have a pistol is to fight your way to a rifle."
Because uncle daddy told them.
Because they suck.
Because they never had anyone to teach and show them otherwise...until you. Good on you.
Coal Dragger
10-13-18, 21:47
They just look at me like I’m a weirdo. Pretty sure they learn nothing beyond observing some weird dude shooting targets at 50 yards (sometimes more) with a pistol.
It’s not magic, just applied basics.
I've read other people interpret Rob Leatham believes aiming is worthless on other forums. In this video Rob Leatham said "So, It's pointless to focus on aiming until fire control is in place." If you think about what he said, he has a valid point. Aiming won't do you any good if you move the firearm while pressing the trigger.
I am a firm believer in shooting a handgun at distance to reinforce concentration on basic skills. Shooting at 50 yards, or even 100 yards, with a service pistol helps to reinforce the basics and makes a person much more proficient at closer ranges.
I think clarification on how to hold the pistol tightly is important. On what parts of the grip to apply pressure and what parts of your hands to apply that pressure is a very important concept.
I need to watch a few "fundamentals" video's like this and take notes before taking my Gp-100 out again. (.44 Special)
Ten yard rapid fire I'm okay with it. Dry firing at home everything seems fine. But at 25 yds I'm terrible with it in DA. But I shot the LCR I had just fine at the same distance. Even better with a Shield .45.
As for Mr. Leatham's suggestion about holding the gun tightly, sometimes I think I might grip too tight, but after his comments I'm not going to think about it any more. I think I'm good to hold a gun strongly. (especially auto's) Resists take away's, too.
glockshooter
10-14-18, 08:29
The point being made is being lost by many people. The point is that of the shooting fundamentals trigger control is the absolute most important and hardest to teach. Grip, stance, breathing are part of the fundamentals, but they are not nearly are important as sight picture, sight alignment, or follow through. All of those are easy to master, but trigger control is not. I have taught hundreds of students, and almost all of my students that struggle have trigger control issues. The best shooters in the world normally have a regular diet of dry fire to master and maintain the mastery of trigger control.
On the topic of trigger press, out of anywhere I've trained, I got the most from Larry Vickers and Dave Harrington. Bar none. The work of Larry Mudgett is also excellent.
I've read other people interpret Rob Leatham believes aiming is worthless on other forums. In this video Rob Leatham said "So, It's pointless to focus on aiming until fire control is in place." If you think about what he said, he has a valid point. Aiming won't do you any good if you move the firearm while pressing the trigger.
I think part of the problem, in addition to the 'not listening for meaning' that you mention, is that the video is titled AIMING IS USELESS! 3 Secrets Every Shooter Needs to Know.
I think part of the problem, in addition to the 'not listening for meaning' that you mention, is that the video is titled AIMING IS USELESS! 3 Secrets Every Shooter Needs to Know.
Bingo. Clickbait title, saying upfront that a fundamental is “useless” even though thats not what he really means.
On the topic of trigger press, out of anywhere I've trained, I got the most from Larry Vickers and Dave Harrington. Bar none. The work of Larry Mudgett is also excellent.
I had not heard Larry Mudgett's name before. After I googled his name, what I read I found interesting.
I learned from two men most people had not heard about as well, Charlie Parker and Bill Burnett. There is no substitute for experienced instructors who teach a concept well.
I had not heard Larry Mudgett's name before. After I googled his name, what I read I found interesting.
Very early on I once complained to Larry Mudgett that my newly issued 92F sights were off... He then test fired it at 25Y in front of me and handed it back after shooting a fine, well centered group. He didn't actually instruct me on how to pull a trigger, but he sure inspired me to learn how to do so correctly!
Dennis.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Averageman
10-14-18, 21:11
Years ago I was taught to shoot a rifle my a elderly former Marine.
I must have spent four hours dry firing before I was given a single round of .22 to fire. We went over it again and again and did the "Dime Trick" several hundred times until we could pull the trigger without tipping the dime off of the barrel.
If you think about it, aiming has to be one of the simplest things to do in all of the mechanics of actually firing a round.
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