View Full Version : Glock 17 Gen 5 vs CZ P-09
Ordinarily I try to avoid "Brand A" vs "Brand B" comparisons, but I'm curious. For those who have used both, in general, which was the more accurate gun - the Glock or the CZ?
Hopefully this is a helpful indirect comment (sometimes they aren't). Joe Mustang has done accuracy work out to 200 yards with the P09 and comments that it gave a performance edge over the P226. One HK user on this site found that the P09 stayed with his HK USP Expert. That is tall grass.
I find at distance the cz is more accurate , and grip angle is natural between the 2
My CZ's both P07 and P09 are tack drivers. My Glocks aren't they get the job done but my CZ's are like Wilson or big name builder custom 1911 accurate.
P-09 prices have really come down lately - around $380 in some cases. There's been some speculation that it's because CZ is coming out with a full-size P-10. But are the two mechanically similar?
noonesshowmonkey
10-18-18, 10:40
Both out shoot me.
When I've really taken my time, the P-07 was one of the most accurate pistols I've ever shot. Up there with an HK USP with a match trigger in it.
Really, I think it comes down to which platform (DA/SA or striker fired) you're interested in. For me, all my work guns (for whatever agency) are 99% going to be Glock, so I don't 'cheat' on the platform and train with other guns.
I had a P-07 years ago when they first came out and were unusually cheap for a CZ. Great ergonomics, and one of the best SA/DA triggers out of the box, with a SUPER light SA trigger pull. So light when I handed a loaded one to my dad for the first time he accidentally discharged it when he put his finger on the trigger (pointed downrange of course, this was the man who taught me gun safety. But it took him off guard).
But I kinda wishes I'd waited for the P09, and when times got tough I had to let my P-07 go to keep my 97B. If P-09s ARE getting cheap, that's hard to ignore. I know people are going nuts over the P10Cs but I've also seen the fit n finish of the P10s all over the place, while EVERY P-07 & P-09 has been typical CZ quality. But I've also not seen a p-09 as cheap as a P10c either.
The only issue I ever heard about on the 07s was a pin that would walk out and cause the frame to bulge. Mine never shows any signs of that.
I just took the plunge and ordered a new P-09 for $379 shipped.
Don Quijote
10-18-18, 12:43
P01/SP01 > P07/P09 > any Glock
WickedWillis
10-18-18, 12:45
I just took the plunge and ordered a new P-09 for $379 shipped.
Would you share where? I would love to snag a P09 or P07 at that price
Would you share where? I would love to snag a P09 or P07 at that price
Bud's
I was not previously aware, but apparently a limited number of special P09's were made for the MHS trials. Looks like they were sold here in the US commercially:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/02/jeremy-s/obscure-object-of-desire-cz-p-09-mhs-trials-pistol/
Business_Casual
10-18-18, 14:38
Is the P09 fully cocked or is it double action like the Glock?
Please don’t speculate if you don’t know.
Don Quijote
10-18-18, 16:51
Is the P09 fully cocked or is it double action like the Glock?
Please don’t speculate if you don’t know.
The P09 (and the P07) has the CZ Omega fire control system and can be switched from a DA/SA with decocker to DA/SA with manual safety.
When the manual safety is installed, the pistol can be carried cocked and locked, or can be decocked by placing the safety off and manually lowering the hammer by depressing the trigger while holding the hammer and guiding it down to the half cock notch.
When the decocker is installed, the hammer is can be lowered manually or by depressing the decocker. The pistol cannot be carried cocked and locked.
It works nothing like a Glock, and I don't consider a Glock to be double action. No speculation, having owned a P07 and a Glock 17
Business_Casual
10-18-18, 17:17
The P09 (and the P07) has the CZ Omega fire control system and can be switched from a DA/SA with decocker to DA/SA with manual safety.
When the manual safety is installed, the pistol can be carried cocked and locked, or can be decocked by placing the safety off and manually lowering the hammer by depressing the trigger while holding the hammer and guiding it down to the half cock notch.
When the decocker is installed, the hammer is can be lowered manually or by depressing the decocker. The pistol cannot be carried cocked and locked.
It works nothing like a Glock, and I don't consider a Glock to be double action. No speculation, having owned a P07 and a Glock 17
My mistake, I meant the CZ P10.
Don Quijote
10-18-18, 17:39
No idea then. However, it's not a distinction that I worry about. To me one striker fired pistol is pretty much like all the others. The differences in how they operate are too minuscule to be a practical matter and are pretty much academic.
I just took the plunge and ordered a new P-09 for $379 shipped.
Put the CGW parts in it... The trigger is outstanding with them in it.
Business_Casual
10-18-18, 18:41
No idea then. However, it's not a distinction that I worry about. To me one striker fired pistol is pretty much like all the others. The differences in how they operate are too minuscule to be a practical matter and are pretty much academic.
If you carry AIWB, you have a different take on that. ��
Thanks!
I own all the glocks in 9mm (26, 19, 17, 17L, etc.) along with most of the CZ's in 9mm. They are both fantastic guns, yet different. If I am in a 3 day pistol class, Glock 19 every time. If I want to shoot plate racks with buddies and impress them with my shooting, P09 (or any cz) every time (no double action start though).
CZ ergonomics are just plain amazing, fitting everyones hand better than any other gun they brought to the range, every time I go to the range with friend and their friends. Triggers are good or ok, but can be improved somewhat with use, or replaced with aftermarket parts for very good triggers. Aftermarket choices are limited along with accessories (i.e. Holsters) and mags are more expensive for now.
Glocks are identical beasts, mine are all setup with identical sights so the same picture shoots the same place regardless of which glock it is (aftermarket MUCH BIGGER). Trigger is glock, stagy, gritty, spongy, yet gets the job done and can be trained to learn (all have identical trigger setups with OEM parts).
Durability and maintenance, Glock wins hands down. I clean them rarely, twice a year and finally replaced my magazine springs on original 15 rounder G19 mags this year (bought in late 90's). CZ's like to be cleaner, so clean every few range trips or so. Accuracy is not even close, with all my czs being tack drivers, 1 hole at 10-15y with good shooter very easy, while glocks are bigger hole at 10-15y with some space between the hits.
Buy both.
Since the OP already got the CZ, it is a moot point but
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32114-Glock-26-Gen-5/page3
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32114-Glock-26-Gen-5/page5
Those are groups with a stock, no Cajun parts etc, gen 5 Glock. Except it is the 26, so much shorter sight radius and less grip to hold on to than the 17.
So far everyone that I know of who can shoot has had nothing but excellent accuracy with gen 5 Glocks.
So far everyone that I know of who can shoot has had nothing but excellent accuracy with gen 5 Glocks.
Just to clarify, all my glocks are very accurate, so I would agree, but my cz's are more accurate. For an overwhelming majority of shooters within distance's of armed conflict, range time, or competition the difference is meaningless as well placed hits are achievable with both pistols.
In my particular case, all else being equal, the CZ wins comfortably on price.
Just to clarify, all my glocks are very accurate, so I would agree, but my cz's are more accurate.
I just broke 11,000 rounds for the year with my CZC Shadow 2, incidentally breaking a slide stop in a process, and I've had a couple of other CZ guns in the past. So I have some experience with them. I can't say that they are definitively more accurate than their competitors. Almost everyone who I know does something to their triggers, whether by CZC, Cajun, AA, or themselves by changing springs and parts. Every one of mine had a 2.5 to 3.25 single action pull; naturally, they are easier to shoot accurately. If I shoot groups in a DA only, or whenever I shot an unmodded rental CZ, the groups were pretty much on par with my Glocks, Berettas and HKs. I also find accurized CZs, by means of CZC's Accu-bushing or Cajun's 10X bushing, a bit more accurate than stock ones. So personally I attribute most of their perceived higher accuracy to worked-over triggers rather than barrels/lockup/whatever else goes into gun's intrinsic accuracy. By the same token, I think that some of better accuracy of Gen5 Glocks is due to improved trigger but I also think they do have a better lockup and supposedly, more accurate barrels.
YMMV.
More accurate: I'm personally more accurate with A p-07/9 in SA than a lot of guns. However, the rreset is what I do not like about the P-07/09.
Best bang for your buck: Unless you get blue label, the P-07/9 is probably a better bang for your buck. I've had two of them and sold two fo them though. I have more fun with my 75 bd than my p-07's.
everready73
10-19-18, 10:09
I just took the plunge and ordered a new P-09 for $379 shipped.
Good choice and price. Can you share where you bought? PSA had them on their daily deals for $399 i believe, but that is a little lower
Good choice and price. Can you share where you bought? PSA had them on their daily deals for $399 i believe, but that is a little lower
Bud's Gun Shop. However, I checked this morning and they're $388. Bud's pricing seems to go up and down.
OP: Accuracy - CZ P09 will likely 'win' all days and Sunday. Glock is more than good enough though.
CZ P09/07s are VERY accurate and have been reported that way for SOME time. Part of it is the barrel slide fit which is excellent, but not perfect. My 75s are generally a tad tighter and so are SIGs. Where the P series is great is DWELL TIME. Watch WHEN the barrel drops when the slide travels back - lots of lag - good for recoil impulse and accuracy - the barrel stays locked up with the slide for quite a while in 'gun time'. Some report better shooting at some speed with the P09 over the Shadow series. That's elephant grass. And cheap.
Ergonomics. The P series generally retains the grip angle and SOME of the feel, but the P series is MUCH slimmer. IMHO its a bit too slim, but it allows even medium sized hands to really wrap around the grip and gain leverage. The slide sits lower than other hammer guns, BUT is NOT as low as the Glock. However, because the P09 is balanced the way it is, has the longer slide - the combo feels SOOOO easy on the recoil and stays right on target. The slim grip also allows you to hit the mag release VERY easily for a button gun - buttons suck compared to paddles, but on the P series CZ it is easier than most. The slide released is BLOCKED by the decocker. If you run a safety this is less of an issue. Many apply their off hand thumb upon reload and its big and easy to activate. The 'midget' slide serrations are VERY good, and allow the BEST slide manipulation of any CZ hammer gun. Overall it has a good set of ergonomics.
Trigger. On the whole the Omega triggers in the P series are pretty mediocre and lack refinement. I have bought P series guns with very smooth good triggers that really did not need any tweaking, but I did some spring swaps anyway. I bought one that was absolutely horrible. It went back to CZ - they replaced the hammer strut and polished it. After several hundred more rounds, and CGW springs, and SR Kit, it is VERY nice. They CAN be made very good to excellent. Enter Cajun Gunworks. Oberall, the 75 series has a better DA trigger, but the Omega seems to have a better SA. ALL CZs are generally easy to shoot well, but the triggers are NOT on par with a SIG - like the SP 2022. After Cajunizing, the best are REALLY good and exhibit light short DA pulls, but that takes buying the gun IN person and some cajunizing.
Evel Baldgui
10-21-18, 08:05
I have Glocks and CZ's. Reliability...same; Cost...CZ less expensive (in my area); Accuracy... CZ WAAAY SUPERIOR! Aftermarket items...CZ's don't require instant change of sights, Glocks do; otherwise Glock wins in the ubiquitous after market items. P-07 out shoots G17, G34 and G19, plus its that 'cool' grey color :-) As said, your mileage may vary, but this has been my experience in my sample of one.
Can anyone quantify cz accuracy?
Can anyone quantify cz accuracy?
The two I've seen came with a target printout from the factory.
My Custom SDP came with a sub 2 inch test target at 25 meters with 115 S&B, my P01 had no target, and neither had a Shadow 2 but the last one I bought used so I don't know if it did or didn't have that test target.
This thread is about the P09.
What size 10 shot groups can a P09 produce at 25 or 50yds? Extreme spread is probably the easiest measurement.
When I sighted in the RMR on my P09 in after a trip to CGW, once it was sighted in I shot around 90 some rounds and they went into a little bigger than 2" group at 25 yards. I think it could have been even better but I was getting over an injury on my left arm and as I got tired and the pain went up the group started sloping down and left. My CZ P07/09 shoots better than my big money custom Hi Powers.
When I sighted in the RMR on my P09 in after a trip to CGW, once it was sighted in I shot around 90 some rounds and they went into a little bigger than 2" group at 25 yards. I think it could have been even better but I was getting over an injury on my left arm and as I got tired and the pain went up the group started sloping down and left. My CZ P07/09 shoots better than my big money custom Hi Powers.
Sounds pretty decent. Do you have a P07 also?
Can anyone quantify cz accuracy?
I don't have anything on paper, but I can say when my son was 10 he could bang down plates and bowling pins at 20 yards like we was a seasoned champ. When we go to the range now (he's 14) we compete by going head to head at the 50 and 100 yd gongs with the 75, 01, and 09 all which seem to perform equally well at distance. I've never shot them on paper from the bench. To borrow a glock owner saying "they shoot themselves"
Does anyone know of a holster maker offering a duty holster for the p09 running a tlr1? For some reason safariland does for the p07, but not the p09.
I have a Carnivora and it works great. It secures on the light so you can use any pistol as long as you have your TLR1 attached
I have a Carnivora and it works great. It secures on the light so you can use any pistol as long as you have your TLR1 attached
I should've mentioned, I need a retention holster, like the als by safariland (for duty use)
It is a retention holster. What level are you looking for?
Picked up mine at my FFL today. Not bad for $379 shipped. Test target is dated 20 March 2018, so fairly recent production:
https://i.imgur.com/e8K8ZqZl.jpg
joedirt199
10-27-18, 09:00
Kt-mech and shooks custom make nice level 2 holsters with hoods. Kt is like the bladetech hood where you have to press toward yourself to release and shooks is like the safariland push down and forward. Not many options with chamber hood locking like safariland als. If safariland is now offering p07 with light it can be opened in the bottom to allow the p09 to work. Blackhawk has some that lock onto the light allowing more gun options in one holster.
Picked up mine at my FFL today. Not bad for $379 shipped. Test target is dated 20 March 2018, so fairly recent production:
https://i.imgur.com/e8K8ZqZl.jpg
Is the DA TRIGGER smooth? Thanks.
Feels pretty decent. Probably not as nice as my Walter PPQ, though.
Feels pretty decent. Probably not as nice as my Walter PPQ, though.
No - I meant the DA. Thanks. Almost nothing beats the SA of the PPQ.
Picked up mine at my FFL today. Not bad for $379 shipped. Test target is dated 20 March 2018, so fairly recent production:
https://i.imgur.com/e8K8ZqZl.jpg
$379 Shipped? That's a great deal for some one who wants a decent handgun, but dosen't have alot of money..
No - I meant the DA. Thanks. Almost nothing beats the SA of the PPQ.
SA in a CGW CZ comes very close. I will say close enough not to matter. I have had my CGW next to my buddies PPQ and very little difference.
No - I meant the DA. Thanks. Almost nothing beats the SA of the PPQ.
Do how is the DA?
Why not compare it to the p-10 which is striker fired instead of the p-07?
I have and shoot both. The Glock 17 Gen 5 has factory Ameriglo sights, the P-09 has Dawson fiber optic competition sights. I have huge hands, and use the large beavertail backstrap on the Glock and a Hogue grip over the large back panel on the CZ.
Accuracy: Surprisingly, with the ammunition I shoot, they are about equal off a bench at 25 yards. Both give me groups of around 2.5"+.
It is easier to make fast hits on targets beyond 15 yards with the CZ, but the sights probably play a role in this.
I have an easier time making fast hits within 15 yards with the Glock, but the sights probably play a role in this.
Triggers are a very subjective thing. I love the triggers that came on my Gen 5 Glocks. They are a completely smooth roll and there is no "wall" before the break. Between the surprise break and improved barrel (which really is better in most of the loads I have tested) there is significant accuracy performance improvement in the Gen 5 Glock. The reset is longer than something like an Apex'd M&P, but the trigger return spring is so strong that split times on a bill drill hang with the best of them. Some don't like Glock triggers. They may not feel the best on a table top review, but they are very usable in live fire and I don't see much of a detriment shooting against guns with better "feeling" triggers such as PPQ, Apex M&P, 1911, SA Sig, etc. I had a PPQ out with the Glock 17 G5 on my last range trip, and made more consistent hits at 50 yards with the Glock.
The CZ trigger out of the box was a complete dog. It was 13lbs with grit and stacking. Glue on the decocker bar was partly to blame. The rest was on the long side, and the single action had a horrific amount of creep. A CGW kit cleaned this up at a cost of around $230 shipped. The double action is now usable (if not award winning), the reset is great, and the single action now only has a tiny bit of creep that I do not notice in live fire drills. In my opinion, it is better than the PPQ. I strongly prefer the Glock trigger to the CZ's first double action pull, even with CGW. I believe that in a defensive pistol the first trigger pull deserves a lot of emphasis. The CZ has a lighter, crisper single action for follow-up shots. If you only return the Glock to the reset point for subsequent shots, there is not a huge practical difference in my ability to make follow-up shots.
Handling is subjective, and relative to the interaction between an individual's hand size, hand shape, grip technique, and the gun itself. In my experience having huge hands, the perceived recoil is similar between the two with the edge going to CZ. They both have very little sight disturbance in recoil, but the advantage here in my experience goes to the Glock. Neither front sight moves much, but the CZ front sight seems to move a bit more than the Glock. My average Bill Drill split times overall are about 1/100th of a second faster with the Glock, but I have thousands and thousands more rounds through Glocks and this may be a training issue. In my experience, the Gen 5 G17 seems to shoot softer and flatter than my 2 Gen 4 G17's and I credit the new recoils spring assembly. Both pistols handle extremely well, and neither handles significantly worse than any other pistol I have tried.
Both have been very reliable, but over very large round counts or in abusive environments I would give the edge to Glock for reliability and durability because of the track record, mechanical simplicity, and redesign of springs and small parts prone to breakage. For most people reading this, the difference would probably be moot.
The DA/SA provides a margin of safety over a striker fired gun, but a striker control device and a good kydex holster that completely encases the trigger guard goes a long way towards closing the gap.
The CZ family is my top choice for a hammer fired gun, and the Glock is my top choice for a striker fired gun (unless you want a safety- then get the M&P 2.0c 4"). I would let your preference for one or the other be dictated by whether you prefer the additional safety of the DA/SA or the consistent trigger of the striker fired gun. The safety and performance gaps between the two can be closed considerably with training. Both choices are great, and 99% of the performance difference between the two will be user-driven.
Thanks for the report Calvin - very appropriate to the OP.
No doubt that the hammer gun is harder to train overall but doable.
Yes, CZ P gun triggers leave MUCH to be desired - especially in DA, but normally can be cleaned up well with CGW and made VERY nice. I would encourage folks to "buy upon inspection". I have picked up a couple P guns with exceptionally smooth triggers OTB, but they are the minority report.
P guns do shoot soft - good to hear the report on the Gen 5 Glock on recoil and accuracy.
Thanks for the report Calvin - very appropriate to the OP.
No doubt that the hammer gun is harder to train overall but doable.
Yes, CZ P gun triggers leave MUCH to be desired - especially in DA, but normally can be cleaned up well with CGW and made VERY nice. I would encourage folks to "buy upon inspection". I have picked up a couple P guns with exceptionally smooth triggers OTB, but they are the minority report.
P guns do shoot soft - good to hear the report on the Gen 5 Glock on recoil and accuracy.
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