View Full Version : Apparently the Canik TP9 is such a good PPQ clone....
El Pistolero
10-18-18, 20:17
.... that you can interchange the Walther and Canik slides and frames:
https://i.imgur.com/OfwfQqs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WYNyjHz.jpg
El Pistolero
10-18-18, 20:20
Walther PPQ on the right, Canik TP9SF on the left:
https://i.imgur.com/hKbl3rm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4uvi0AU.jpg
dwhitehorne
10-19-18, 16:25
I’ve got a SA and a SF. I think they are softer shooters than my P99. David
El Pistolero
10-19-18, 19:19
I’ve got a SA and a SF. I think they are softer shooters than my P99. David
I have to agree. I blame the light weight of the PPQ slide for the snappiness most people experience with the PPQ. For the money the Caniks are excellent shooters.
joedirt199
10-19-18, 20:28
Have been looking at the elite models and seeing good reviews for the price. Older ones looked like the p99 newer ones look like cz p10.
I have to agree. I blame the light weight of the PPQ slide for the snappiness most people experience with the PPQ. For the money the Caniks are excellent shooters.
So, does the Canik slide take the snappiness out of the Walther frame?
And, OP, thanks for this thread. I’ve been on the fence with Canik...not so much now.
The grip on the Canik is not nearly as nice. Also, buttons suck compared to the Walther paddles. Then there is the Turkish problem.
dwhitehorne
10-20-18, 14:41
I guess the grip comes down to preference. I had a PPQ and though the grip texture was quite slippery in the cold or rain. Also the Canik grip insert doesn’t have the peaked hump on the back of the larger blackstrap. David
El Pistolero
10-20-18, 14:42
So, does the Canik slide take the snappiness out of the Walther frame?
And, OP, thanks for this thread. I’ve been on the fence with Canik...not so much now.
I haven’t live-fired them with the slides reversed but I will if I get them out on the range together.
What about the triggers? Is the Canik trigger as nice as the Walther trigger, which is pretty much unmatched in polymer framed pistols?
Does the Canik TP40 choke on half the available 40S&W loadings like the 40S&W Walther PPQ does? Does Canik's customer service suck as bad as Walther's?
El Pistolero
10-20-18, 18:52
What about the triggers? Is the Canik trigger as nice as the Walther trigger, which is pretty much unmatched in polymer framed pistols?
Does the Canik TP40 choke on half the available 40S&W loadings like the 40S&W Walther PPQ does? Does Canik's customer service suck as bad as Walther's?
The Canik trigger comes off as a caricature of the PPQ trigger. I mean that in a good way, it’s hard to explain but both have great triggers but the PPQ does feel a bit cleaner and crisper. But again compared to stock Glocks and others the TP9 is excellent and it’s been a tack driver.
As for problems with the .40 I wouldn’t know (nor do I know about the customer service). This PPQ in 9mm is new to me and I have all of 300 rounds through it with no problems but I have yet to try any steel case ammo to see how it plays with the stepped chamber. The Canik has about 2k rounds with no problems either.
Evel Baldgui
10-21-18, 08:18
Judging by the photos posted, will Walther file copyright infringement on Canik anytime soon? PPQ's are magnificently accurate, reliable, and outstanding out of box pistols which require no modifications (at least for me). Anything coming out of Turkish clone factories I would not bother with. Walther has a history, Canik, not so much as far as I know.
Anything coming out of Turkish clone factories I would not bother with. Walther has a history, Canik, not so much as far as I know.
I'm not sure exactly, but Canik has been producing firearms for a long time. I have several of their CZ75 clones (actually, they're more like Italian Tanfoglio clones) and they're top quality firearms.
In regard to Walther, there's no doubt they have a long history, but that unfortunately doesn't equate to their US facility have good customer service. I'll spare you most all the details because it would get this thread way off topic, but suffice it to say that Walter failed terribly when they chambered the PPQ in 40S&W. Mine chokes constantly with multiple factory loads and has chatter marks on the underside of the barrel caused by the recoil spring. When I sent it in for repair, they put a few rounds through it and declared that nothing was wrong with it. I then sent it back with a video of it choking on multiple factory loads and pointed out how the recoil spring was causing chatter marks on the barrel. They then were able to duplicate the problem, but their head gunsmith said that he didn't like the factory ammunition I was using. Of course this same ammo works in all of my other 40S&W pistols without issue and the manual that came with the pistol says that SAAMI ammunition must be used, which all of it is. They then tried to charge me for their service. I refused to pay and they told me that they would not return my pistol until I did. Since an unreliable pistol is as useless as a man's tits, I called their bluff. Several months later, my pistol showed up at my house. The bottom line is that Walther USA has failed to take ownership of this design problem. Others on the Walther forum have described similar experiences with the 40S&W PPQ. I do own a 9mm PPQ that's been 100% and my daily carry gun is a 9mm PPS, so I have no concern that these issues impact their 9mm pistols. But if something were ever to go wrong, I wouldn't have an expectation that Walther USA would make it right. Realistically, Canik's customer service couldn't be worse.
I have an el cheapo Walther PPX. It's been 100% reliable and accurate right out of the box. The gun looks like a 2x4 with a grip attached, so Walther re-contoured it into the (badly named) Creed.
The Turkish companies (Canik, Sarsilmaz, Tisas, etc.) have garnered a loyal following here in the US with their clones. I don't think I would compare them to a genuine Walther or HK, but their reliability and overall QC seems to be on par with most other companies and better than some (Remington?).
everready73
10-21-18, 13:35
The Turkish companies (Canik, Sarsilmaz, Tisas, etc.) have garnered a loyal following here in the US with their clones. I don't think I would compare them to a genuine Walther or HK, but their reliability and overall QC seems to be on par with most other companies and better than some (Remington?).
I agree, they have caught on and are good for the price. I picked up a Sar B6p full size for a truck gun for like $240. It isn't my most shoot gun or anything but have about 2.5k rounds through it over the last 2 years. Not one failure when I have shot it. I had a buddy that never shot before I took to the range and did have a couple failures with federal aluminum because if limp wristing. If it was full power ammo it probably would have been fine
Thinking about trying the sfx version of the Canik to see how I like a red dot on a pistol. It's only like $469 with the slide cut for dot
ramairthree
10-21-18, 14:10
I did not realize it was basically a PPQ 2 internally with a less ugly look when I got mine.
I was impressed with how good it was.
After coming to that conclusion, I have done some playing around.
Out of the box, the Canik trigger is 90% of the excellent of the PPQ. The PPQ gets like one percent better with use,
The Canik after a few dozen magazines becomes indistinguishable in my opinion from a new or used PPQ trigger.
joedirt199
10-21-18, 18:43
There was an article on all outdoors about the Sar9 being a pretty good copy of a glock and hk. Showed the inner frame next to a glock 17 and pretty similar. Turkey isn't worried about using other gun company's dimensions.
El Pistolero
10-21-18, 22:31
I did not realize it was basically a PPQ 2 internally with a less ugly look when I got mine.
I was impressed with how good it was.
After coming to that conclusion, I have done some playing around.
Out of the box, the Canik trigger is 90% of the excellent of the PPQ. The PPQ gets like one percent better with use,
The Canik after a few dozen magazines becomes indistinguishable in my opinion from a new or used PPQ trigger.
When I was writing my earlier reply I actually had that same exact number in my mind, that the Canik trigger is 90% of what the PPQ trigger is. Spot on. That extra 10% difference is just enough to tell them apart when they're side by side but someone who only owns a Canik isn't missing much with the trigger.
El Pistolero
10-21-18, 23:37
I would also add that the Canik finish feels like cheap semi-glossy paint compared to the Tenifer finish used on the Walther.
joedirt199
10-22-18, 06:03
Caniks are cerakoted
Mrgunsngear
10-24-18, 23:27
FWIW, Canik OEMs a lot of the Walther parts for them.
everready73
10-25-18, 07:33
FWIW, Canik OEMs a lot of the Walther parts for them.
I was unaware of this. I haven't been able to spend a ton of time online recently, do you have any thoughts on the SFX version with optics cut? I have been considering on to see how I like a red dot on a pistol
El Pistolero
10-27-18, 20:08
FWIW, Canik OEMs a lot of the Walther parts for them.
Source for this info? I find it hard to believe the esteemed Carl Walther out of Germany would use parts made in the third world by Canik.
Turkey is technically a 1st world country (democratic and industrialized), though it hangs at the bottom peg of democratic. I don't find it hard to believe at all that Walther would use parts made in Turkey as Turkish firearm quality is great and the manufacturing costs are way less than they are in socialized refugee packed Germany. What I find hard to believe is that Walther would let the same people producing parts for them clone their gun and sell it without consequence. I have no reason to doubt, but I'd also like to know the source of this information.
I use canik tp55 mags made by meggar for my ppq m2 navy model.
14.99 each 18 rd and 20 rd..
Instead of 40..
Opens and locks on last round..no issues
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
What about the triggers? Is the Canik trigger as nice as the Walther trigger, which is pretty much unmatched in polymer framed pistols?
Does the Canik TP40 choke on half the available 40S&W loadings like the 40S&W Walther PPQ does? Does Canik's customer service suck as bad as Walther's?
???
My Canik TP9 SFx trigger is crisp and a bit heavier than my PPQ M1 40. The PPQ is too light for self defense imo but I'm sure if it were my only gun I could train around it. I could measure both if you like. I forget exactly what they measured. I was actually looking to buy a Q5 Match and decided to go with the SFx after trying both side by side.
My PPQ 40 eats everything I've ever ran through it.
Maybe you are having a bad time with Walther CS but I had a Streamlight mounted on mine. I was at the range & and the small front rail stop broke off of the frame launching my flashlight downrange. Walther replaced the entire gun no questions asked. Shipped it right to my house.
[edit....]
A friend of mine is a Walther rep. Started there after I had bought my PPQ. I'll try to get some answers to the questions in this thread.
I would definitely appreciate your friend’s help. It blows me away that they deny there’s a problem with the pistol when the chatter marks on the barrel are plain to see. Having a carry pistol that I can’t use is lame, but I won’t sell it knowing that someone else might bet their life on it.
I think any service work for Caniks are still done thru Century correct?
Seems like CZs and Walthers get copied more than any other brand, that says a lot.
Years ago I owned a Bersa Thunder hicap, not the blowback .380 PPK clone but a locked breech 9mm copy of a Walther P-88. Other than a gritty trigger it was pretty good clone and at the time it was cheap.
I will give props to the ergonomics for the new Walthers, I just picked up a PPQ .22 rimfire and it fits like it was custom made for my hand. I sold my old PPS M1 earlier this year (great gun but I just went for the Shield 9mm more often) but now I'm thinking about a PPS m2 or PK380.
El Pistolero
10-31-18, 21:26
I think any service work for Caniks are still done thru Century correct?
Seems like CZs and Walthers get copied more than any other brand, that says a lot.
Years ago I owned a Bersa Thunder hicap, not the blowback .380 PPK clone but a locked breech 9mm copy of a Walther P-88. Other than a gritty trigger it was pretty good clone and at the time it was cheap.
I will give props to the ergonomics for the new Walthers, I just picked up a PPQ .22 rimfire and it fits like it was custom made for my hand. I sold my old PPS M1 earlier this year (great gun but I just went for the Shield 9mm more often) but now I'm thinking about a PPS m2 or PK380.
Avoid the PK380.
I’m puzzled by the concept of buying a knock-off. Is the Canik superior in some way, or just cheaper?
call_me_ski
10-31-18, 22:56
FWIW, Canik OEMs a lot of the Walther parts for them.
This is false. Canik does not make a single part for Walther.
ramairthree
11-01-18, 02:14
I did not know I was buying a knock off.
Even if I did I like the grip better.
It was a pleasant surprise.
dwhitehorne
11-01-18, 05:49
I’m puzzled by the concept of buying a knock-off. Is the Canik superior in some way, or just cheaper?
I bought my first Canik because I liked my P99 and the Canik was $250 NIB and I wanted to try it. I shot the Canik and it was nowhere near as snappy as the Walther. I got rid of my Walthers and still have a Canik. As a range toy it’s fine but you have Century arms supporting it. When I thought about it Walther isn’t known for being the model of customer support either. David
everready73
11-01-18, 07:38
This is false. Canik does not make a single part for Walther.
@mrgunsngear you have a source? I would presume both of you have decent industry sources
Mrgunsngear
11-02-18, 08:41
@mrgunsngear you have a source? I would presume both of you have decent industry sources
The head of marketing for Canik Turkey *not Canik USA* told me that 2 years ago at the NRA Show. I have no way to verify this since I haven't been to the plant but they do OEM lots of parts for NATO weapons systems employed by other countries---it's on the Canik Turkey site. So, it certainly wouldn't seem far off.
call_me_ski
11-02-18, 16:15
The head of marketing for Canik Turkey *not Canik USA* told me that 2 years ago at the NRA Show. I have no way to verify this since I haven't been to the plant but they do OEM lots of parts for NATO weapons systems employed by other countries---it's on the Canik Turkey site. So, it certainly wouldn't seem far off.
I got a “100% false” from Bret Vorhees who is the Director of Product Developement at Walther Arms and the authority on such matters within the United States. Definitely two conflicting claims, but marketing is not where I would personally turn to get technical questions answered.
I got a “100% false” from Bret Vorhees who is the Director of Product Developement at Walther Arms and the authority on such matters within the United States. Definitely two conflicting claims, but marketing is not where I would personally turn to get technical questions answered.
Eh, it seems possible.
Here's how I see it: Is glock going to admit to you that their profit margins on the gen 5 are BIGGER than previous generations due to cheaping out on some areas? No.
Why would walther admit to using a somewhat controversial company to OEM parts for them.
Business_Casual
11-02-18, 19:32
Eh, it seems possible.
Here's how I see it: Is glock going to admit to you that their profit margins on the gen 5 are BIGGER than previous generations due to cheaping out on some areas? No.
Why would walther admit to using a somewhat controversial company to OEM parts for them.
Lol marketing.
El Pistolero
11-03-18, 14:36
The head of marketing for Canik Turkey *not Canik USA* told me that 2 years ago at the NRA Show. I have no way to verify this since I haven't been to the plant but they do OEM lots of parts for NATO weapons systems employed by other countries---it's on the Canik Turkey site. So, it certainly wouldn't seem far off.
I’m calling BS on this, 100%.
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