View Full Version : Law Tactical Gen3 Folder
Used the search function and the most recent posts other then EE listings I can find are from 2013 or so. Hoping to be able to get more recent information.
Bought a Gen3 Law Tactical folder for my range-only rifle over back in the spring for storage/transport reasons. Liked the adapter a lot as it let me use the gear I already had, didn't affect performance in any way that I could notice, weight was negligible, and left me with an over-all positive impression.
Since then I no longer have my range-only rifle but kept the folding adapter. Recently I've been considering installing it on my primary/"serious" rifle, primarily for the storage/transport reasons. I'm curious if anyone that has had any generation of Law Tactical folder adapter and are still using them, what are their over-all thoughts on them? Do you use them on your primary/go-to/duty/SHTF rifles? If so, have you ran into any issues? If not, would you mind sharing why? At the moment I'd prefer to use the gear and equipment I have on-hand over purchasing/building an entirely new SBR or pistol build.
Thank you in advance for sharing any information.
I have two LAW folders, I bought new and one bought used from a member.
The original one was used on a pistol build while awaiting my stamps. I got it for the express purpose of covert backpack carry and stashing in in the bag of my street glide. For me, I quickly found covert carrying an SBR/AR pistol to be a major PITA
I SBR'ed and suppressed the pistol for the purpose of my HD rifle, and left the law folder attached, although that rifle doesn't really need it any longer.
The second folder is on a 300 pistol build I did so I could have another short upper available for the SBR and also engage in my saddlebag carry fantasies.
I have not had any problems with function. I regularly have 'duh' moments when field stripping, but that is merely irritating, not a problem.
I found that with a suppressor attached, even with the folder, my sbr is too large, IMO, for covert carry. I don't store them folded, as that would just take up more room in the safe - generally MSR/SBR length is not a storage problem in a gun safe.
In terms of vehicle carry, I suppose that is a matter of how you want to carry. In my truck there is no problem stowing a full length rifle where I carry. In my car I just shove the rifle under the dog hammock. In my wife's car I stow it differently, but don't need to use the folder.
Un-suppressed, an SBR can fit in a backpack with the stock folded, and that would be handy to stow in the front passenger floorboard, or in a seat back carrier like the Sig: https://www.dowdlesports.com/SigTac-Rifle-Bag-Car-Seat-Back-Up-To-20-Bbl-Blk_p_10572.html
I have them, probably will keep them, but not really getting much benefit from them at this time.
I have two LAW folders, I bought new and one bought used from a member.
The original one was used on a pistol build while awaiting my stamps. I got it for the express purpose of covert backpack carry and stashing in in the bag of my street glide. For me, I quickly found covert carrying an SBR/AR pistol to be a major PITA
I SBR'ed and suppressed the pistol for the purpose of my HD rifle, and left the law folder attached, although that rifle doesn't really need it any longer.
The second folder is on a 300 pistol build I did so I could have another short upper available for the SBR and also engage in my saddlebag carry fantasies.
I have not had any problems with function. I regularly have 'duh' moments when field stripping, but that is merely irritating, not a problem.
I found that with a suppressor attached, even with the folder, my sbr is too large, IMO, for covert carry. I don't store them folded, as that would just take up more room in the safe - generally MSR/SBR length is not a storage problem in a gun safe.
In terms of vehicle carry, I suppose that is a matter of how you want to carry. In my truck there is no problem stowing a full length rifle where I carry. In my car I just shove the rifle under the dog hammock. In my wife's car I stow it differently, but don't need to use the folder.
Un-suppressed, an SBR can fit in a backpack with the stock folded, and that would be handy to stow in the front passenger floorboard, or in a seat back carrier like the Sig: https://www.dowdlesports.com/SigTac-Rifle-Bag-Car-Seat-Back-Up-To-20-Bbl-Blk_p_10572.html
I have them, probably will keep them, but not really getting much benefit from them at this time.
Thanks for the information. Will have to look further into that Sig bag or something along those lines. My only vehicle at the moment is a '97 TJ soft top with a Bestop "trunk" behind the rear seat. My Take Down bag fits inside the trunk well, part of why I've been thinking about moving the folding adapter to my main rifle (fits inside the bag and wouldn't have to separate the receivers). Other than the repetitive assembly/disassembly aspect I like the bag for its smaller size which allows to secure it in my Jeep if I make any stops to/from the range or traveling.
friendlyfireisnt
10-21-18, 19:13
I have two.
First is on my .300blk 10.3" pistol that I keep in a rigid tool case. It also fits into a standard backpack.
Second is on my 11.3" SBR. I used this setup at a Paul Howe class earlier this year. Worked great for it.
For your needs, do a pistol build with one, you will like it. It will go into smaller bags/packs and doesn't appear that you have a firearm. Do be mindful of the dreaded "13.5" lop issue on pistols if using the folder as it adds length. When setting up a fixed stock like the blade, just set it shorter. If using the adjustable, some are filling in the last notch so it doesn't exceed 13" when extended.
What's this 13.5 LOP issue?
I've never heard of it either. If I was to hazard a guess it would be that ATF figures a LOP over 13.5 with a brace negates actually using it as a forearm brace.
friendlyfireisnt
10-22-18, 16:43
The ATF has given some context to some in the industry, that when the LOP gets above 13.5" it starts getting into a grey area as to whether or not it's actually intended to be used as a brace, or intended to be used as a stock.
Given that, it seems to be a good idea to keep the LOP a bit shorter than that.
On my .300blk pistol, with the LAW folder, the LOP is right at 12.5".
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4606/26058945398_fb2db67392_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FGJUA3)
I have a Gen 3 LAW folder. I like it, seems to work as advertised so far, granted I only have a few hundred rounds through the pistol it's on, and have not gone crazy folding it over and over to "test" the hinge or whatever... but it does seem pretty darn solid, if heavy.
I got if for the exact same reason- vehicle storage reasons for a pistol. It's kind of a must-have if you want to run a not-pointless-length barrel for 5.56 and still have use a smaller bag to store the thing....
Good to go for duty use from all end user accounts I have received from friends at federal agencies. I have heard rumors of some form of SOF certification, but don't have any public info on that front.
ClangClang
10-24-18, 22:39
Gen 3 folder on a KAC 11.5" CQB. Works well for its intended purpose. Has not caused any issues or problems in over 4k rounds. Still looks and functions like new, including the original O-rings on the carrier extension plug. It's not used for actual duty, but it runs in some pretty heinous conditions that are arguably far more demanding than almost any real-world "duty" use. I don't have a picture of my gun from the last match, but this was my buddy's. We had to use power washers to clean stuff off.
https://i.imgur.com/Ozy1Ti1l.jpg
Not to derail the conversation, but firearm theft from vehicles is EXTREMELY common. I was chatting with my insurance guy literally this afternoon about it. According to his internal statistics on claims, "theft of firearm from unattended vehicle" is responsible for over half of all claims they receive. The other 45% is fire, flood, home burglary, mysterious disappearances, etc combined. I question the wisdom of permanently stowing any firearm at all in vehicle, especially a soft top Jeep. Those things get ripped off all the time. Talk about a theft magnet.
On theft from vehicles...
I do not have statistics, but I have observed this in the northern Illinois area. Cars burgled and glove compartments rifled, with cash left in th car. Apparently common.
Not to derail the conversation, but firearm theft from vehicles is EXTREMELY common. I was chatting with my insurance guy literally this afternoon about it. According to his internal statistics on claims, "theft of firearm from unattended vehicle" is responsible for over half of all claims they receive. The other 45% is fire, flood, home burglary, mysterious disappearances, etc combined. I question the wisdom of permanently stowing any firearm at all in vehicle, especially a soft top Jeep. Those things get ripped off all the time. Talk about a theft magnet.
Absolutely NOT permanent storage in the Jeep. Most trips are straight to/from the range. Have been a couple times I needed to stop in the LGS to pick up some extra ammo or targets, quick in/out/QFA under 5 minutes, parking lot observable from inside the store. Low crime area but still use the trunk for out of sight/out of mind. The one time the Jeep was broken into was in my driveway (rifle was inside my house), thief took my sunglassses with inserts and emptied the butts from my ashtray... totally overlooked the $75 in loose change in the mid console storage. All the paperwork was in the underseat lock box.
Glad to hear people haven't had issues in duty/hard use conditions.
Slvr Surfr
11-05-18, 20:41
I ran the LAW Gen 3 folder on my 10.5" SBR. I had one issue where it appeared as though the buffer retaining pin was taking a beating. The lower was an Aero Precision build which I originally used a Vltor A5 receiver extension setup. The buffer retaining pin was fine on that setup, which would tell me that the location of the hole in the Aero lower was in spec. Over time using the LAW folder, I noticed the buffer retaining pin getting pounded by the buffer. This leads me to believe that something between the two Aero lower and LAW folder put that buffer retainer in a place to get beat up. This is just one example. I took the LAW off and its sitting in its box for now. I have since replaced the retaining pin and all is normal again. I don't know if I'd use it for duty purposes.
I ran the LAW Gen 3 folder on my 10.5" SBR. I had one issue where it appeared as though the buffer retaining pin was taking a beating. The lower was an Aero Precision build which I originally used a Vltor A5 receiver extension setup. The buffer retaining pin was fine on that setup, which would tell me that the location of the hole in the Aero lower was in spec. Over time using the LAW folder, I noticed the buffer retaining pin getting pounded by the buffer. This leads me to believe that something between the two Aero lower and LAW folder put that buffer retainer in a place to get beat up. This is just one example. I took the LAW off and its sitting in its box for now. I have since replaced the retaining pin and all is normal again. I don't know if I'd use it for duty purposes.
I must be misunderstanding what you are describing.
With LAW folder you do not use the buffer retaining pin in the lower. The buffer is held in place by a buffer retaining pin located on the swinging (back) portion of the folder hinge - this is where the buffer tube attaches to the folder.
I don't how you could make a connection.
The buffer retaining pin is not needed for function, when the upper receiver is locked down the tail end of the bolt carrier pushes the buffer back enough to relieve pressure on the buffer retaining pin.
The bolt carrier extension does the same thing - relieves pressure on the buffer retainer pin - when you lovk it in place. Test it by hold the release latch in and closing the assembly - when you hold the release latch in and let off pressure on the extension, the hinge cracks open due to the buffer pushing against the bolt carrier extension.
If something is banging up the pin it is probably your bolt carrier.
....... Over time using the LAW folder, I noticed the buffer retaining pin getting pounded by the buffer. This leads me to believe that something between the two Aero lower and LAW folder put that buffer retainer in a place to get beat up.
i believe that is a stacked-tolerance issue which i also had. i found an easy answer and posted that info here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?188541-Buffer-damage-solution)
Okay, I think I understand after reading feraldog's reply - the reference to the aero lower in your post confused me, which isn't hard to accomplish.
Repeating here:
When the upper receiver is locked down the tail end of the bolt carrier pushes the buffer back enough to relieve pressure on the buffer retaining pin.
The bolt carrier extension on the LAW folder does the same thing - relieves pressure on the buffer retainer pin - when you lock it in place. Test it by holding the release latch in and holding the assembly closed. When you hold the release latch in and let off pressure on the extension, the hinge cracks open due to the buffer pushing against the bolt carrier extension. If it doesn't you could have the tolerance stack issue feraldog posted about.
having installed a number of LAWs now, the way i check to be sure the bolt extension is making full contact with the buffer is to wipe clean the face of each, put a very light coat of some media (oil/grease/spit/etc) on one of the surfaces, close the folding adapter and then open again to see if the media transferred to the other part. so far this has worked as a "proof" every time.
Voodoo_Man
11-06-18, 13:56
I've had good experience with the Gen2, now the Gen3. I've had them on many serious rifles, currently on a very serious gun.
Works. Buy it.
Review coming soon.
having installed a number of LAWs now, the way i check to be sure the bolt extension is making full contact with the buffer is to wipe clean the face of each, put a very light coat of some media (oil/grease/spit/etc) on one of the surfaces, close the folding adapter and then open again to see if the media transferred to the other part. so far this has worked as a "proof" every time.
Duh! Thanks!
Slvr Surfr
11-09-18, 19:43
I must be misunderstanding what you are describing.
With LAW folder you do not use the buffer retaining pin in the lower. The buffer is held in place by a buffer retaining pin located on the swinging (back) portion of the folder hinge - this is where the buffer tube attaches to the folder.
I don't how you could make a connection.
The buffer retaining pin is not needed for function, when the upper receiver is locked down the tail end of the bolt carrier pushes the buffer back enough to relieve pressure on the buffer retaining pin.
The bolt carrier extension does the same thing - relieves pressure on the buffer retainer pin - when you lovk it in place. Test it by hold the release latch in and closing the assembly - when you hold the release latch in and let off pressure on the extension, the hinge cracks open due to the buffer pushing against the bolt carrier extension.
If something is banging up the pin it is probably your bolt carrier.
Sorry for the late reply:
Tolerance stack is probably the proper term for what I was trying to explain. The lower I was using had no issues chewing up the buffer retaining pin before the LAW folder was installed. I know that generally the BCG keeps the buffer pushed off the retaining pin until the upper and lower are separated. The "tolerance stack" of those parts together (LAW & my Aero P lower) did not allow for this causing premature wear on the pin (probably from the buffer smacking the pin during the firing process.) I've since pulled the LAW from that lower so it shouldn't be an issue.
If I try to reuse it in a later build I will test it as described by feraldog.
Guys, thanks for the responses.
I'd like to say "thank you" for all the comments. Once again the community brought up good points and gave me things to consider along with some helpful tips.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.