Bolt under cartridge FTF/Malf

[Amicus]

So, a friend sent me a photo of his workmate's M&P with a cartridge stuck about where the gas return tube should be. I know nothing about the malf except what you see in the photo. According to the owner, the bolt will not move forward or backward, and, of course, the part of the BCG is in the receiver extension, making normal disassembly difficult.

Questions:

How did that happen?

What do you suggest as remedial action?

54308

[LMT Shooter]

Is it an empty case, or a live round in there? Looks like a live round in the pic.

My guess is that it was a double feed, and also that the BCG will move rearward, just not as easily as your friend is accustomed to it moving. It may require mortaring the buttstock while pulling the charging handle. Once the mag is out, pull the charging handle rearward, and lock the bolt to the rear. It may not feel like the charging handle went far enough back if the cartridge is between the charging handle & BCG. The next step is to get the charging handle forward, which may require a smack if there is charging handle impingment. The cartridge should be easily removed then.

[mig1nc]

If you do mortar it, remember to collapse the stock all the way down to avoid damage.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[jsbhike]

I think that manuals used to indicate clearing that type of malfunction by mortaring, but while activating the bolt hold open, not pulling the charging handle only. Mag removed of course.

The using a mag to pull the bolt back sounds way better.

Is the slapping the charging handle forward in the process going on the presumption that the initial attempt at getting everything back up and running will have jammed the case in the charging handle clearance hole?

[ggammell]

rare malfunction

do not "mortar" the butt stock while pulling handle to rear will bend case into a stuck mess you may not get apart

drop the mag

1) take edge of magazine and put pressure pulling the bolt group back
2) slap charging handle forward
3) round hopefully drops out mag-well, may need finger assist

This.

If a mag doesn’t work any sturdy tool pushing on the bolt face will do.

[Amicus]

Is it an empty case, or a live round in there? Looks like a live round in the pic.



Yeah, that's a live round.

I have sent your suggestions on to the various parties. We shall see. (The owner was going to take it to a gunsmith, but he may change his mind in light of this.)

[ruckusjuice]

It appears to be a brass over bolt malfunction. Have your buddy go on YouTube and search for a video called Mike Pannone AR Malfunction Clearance. He has a very simple way to clear one of these malfunctions that will immediately have you questioning why no one ever taught you this before. Basically, drop the mag, brace the muzzle on the deck and the buttstock on your chest, pull the charging handle back as far as it will go and use the bolt lock (or your fingers if the bolt lock can’t engage) to hold the BCG in place while you push the charging handle forward. With the BCG held in place, the round will be able to drop free. Once you see the video it’s a lot more clear than my explanation.

[diving dave]

Or another trick, muzzle down as stated above, rip the mag out, use something thin like the edge of a metal mag or letterman to pull the BCG back through the ejection port..Push charging handle forward and let gravity be your friend.

[HeruMew]

I will be honest...

In my time here at M4C, at the public Ranges, and even time with some post Mil guys, I have never heard of this malfunction or have seen it. I will be researching, practicing, and mentally preparing.

Learn something new every day with you fine bunch'o folks.

[1168]

I will be honest...

In my time here at M4C, at the public Ranges, and even time with some post Mil guys, I have never heard of this malfunction or have seen it. I will be researching, practicing, and mentally preparing.

Learn something new every day with you fine bunch'o folks.

Its not unheard of in ragged M16’s with crummy mags. I haven’t seen this type of malf in a while, though.

[TexasAggie2005]

It appears to be a brass over bolt malfunction. Have your buddy go on YouTube and search for a video called Mike Pannone AR Malfunction Clearance. He has a very simple way to clear one of these malfunctions that will immediately have you questioning why no one ever taught you this before. Basically, drop the mag, brace the muzzle on the deck and the buttstock on your chest, pull the charging handle back as far as it will go and use the bolt lock (or your fingers if the bolt lock can’t engage) to hold the BCG in place while you push the charging handle forward. With the BCG held in place, the round will be able to drop free. Once you see the video it’s a lot more clear than my explanation.

Great video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCXwoK28Oj8

[Budget]

54311


Happened last year to a coworker. Thank God he wasn't using one of those crummy plastic magazines :rolleyes:

[ggammell]

These are rare enough that it’s a stop the range and everyone come watch kinda thing.

[Amicus]

I sent the guy the video and did some virtual hand-holding by email. He cleared the AR in seconds.

Now he says I am a genius.

No. You guys are. I am just the conduit.

Thanks for the help. I had never seen this malf before, and now I know what to do.

[jsbhike]

Finally found the mortaring while pressing the bolt hold open instructions in the 1985 M16/M16A1and 1983 M16A2 operator manuals complete with sketches showing how. The 1998 operators manual mentions the malfunction, but no info on how to get it out. 1989 and newer marksmanship manuals describe clearing like Dano5326 stated.

[ThirdWatcher]

... search for a video called Mike Pannone AR Malfunction Clearance...

Thanks for this tip. Before I retired (from LE), I had a double feed with my BCM4 w/ Pmag at the Range (nothing cheap or worn out about my equipment). Still don’t know why it happened but it was a real hassle.

[jsbhike]

The only thing mentioned as a potential cause I noticed while reviewing the manuals last night was slapping the mag up so hard as to jump a cartridge past the feed lips.

[ThirdWatcher]

That definitely could have been the cause.

BTW, thanks for the input guys. Never to old to learn.

[17K]

The only thing mentioned as a potential cause I noticed while reviewing the manuals last night was slapping the mag up so hard as to jump a cartridge past the feed lips.

I had a few of these this year with work Okay mags because of that.