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Is anyone familiar with the F1 Durabolt BCG? Is it any good? Found a deal on them but dont know anything about them and I trust most here.
They have a Griffen Armament too but Griffen seems to stir up some controversy for whatever reason. Personally I have never used any of their stuff so I'm blind there too.
Opinions? Should I just go with another BCM?
RobertTheTexan
10-24-18, 14:14
Unless you have a good reason to switch,
I would not try to fix what ain’t broken.
I mainly use LMT BCG’s, however I will pick up a Toolcraft BCG when they go on sale as a spare... and same for when I find an LMT. I grab it. I stick to what I know works.
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What is a good deal for an unproven BCG? Why do people attempt to reinvent the wheel??
Not trying to fix anything, doing a new build and need a bcg for it like anybody else would.
I dont know what a good deal would be for an unproven anything. I dont know if its proven or unproven, kind of why I asked for experiences, to see if they re proven or an unknown. I'm guessing they're an unknown?
Look, I always use BCM bcg, I was just looking to save a few IF they were a reliable bolt that's all..
Oh, by the way, NO. I haven't bought one yet and am now asking people to make me feel better about my purchase. Something else I know all the pro's here hate. I was asking for advice on a bcg before buying.
I've never heard of them.
If you're looking for a more wallet friendly alternative to BCM, Toolcraft seems
like a solid option. I bought my first one a few weeks ago, and expect it to work as well as my BCMs, LMTs,
and Colts. I went the old school phosphated, chrome lined, C158 route cause there's no doubt it'll work.
The Centurion BCG’s are usually priced pretty well if you’re looking for a bargain. $125 last I looked. I would stick with the handful of proven, vetted brands. No reason to deviate. I’ve never heard of that company for what it’s worth.
You can buy Toolcraft C-158 BCG's for under a hundred all day.
Why pay extra for a logo?
Why do people attempt to reinvent the wheel??
Because if someone didn't try to reinvent the wheel, we wouldn't have tires.
RobertTheTexan
10-24-18, 22:02
Is anyone familiar with the F1 Durabolt BCG? Is it any good? Found a deal on them but dont know anything about them and I trust most here.
They have a Griffen Armament too but Griffen seems to stir up some controversy for whatever reason. Personally I have never used any of their stuff so I'm blind there too.
Opinions? Should I just go with another BCM?
Well for what it’s worth most of the reviews I read - if not all complimented the BCG and had great things to say about it and how super easy it is to clean up. I’ve bought computer/audio stuff before that wasn’t my “norm”. Heck I own a FAB Defense grip. Hardly ever use it but I liked how it looked and bought it. Bottom line is that it’s your money. This is M4C. The BCG’s most of us will recommend can be counted on one hand, )only the order in which I will buy
1. LMT
2. Colt
3. BCM
4. C4
5. Toolcraft
I’m sure someone has a 6th. Sionics maybe, probably some Kachead will herald the praises E2 X-Ray 5000 BCG (I jest, I jest)
And it’s also great that your not seeking justification for a uninformed or ill-informed purchase. But we’re mostly gonna say what we’re gonna say. We are who we are and most of us are Big 5 (or 6) users and most of us probably won’t ever buy an F1. Doesn’t mean you can’t and it doesn’t mean it can’t last you years and years. Just because it’s not the big 5 doesn’t mean it’s not well made.
So go for it. If it’s a good deal and you want it. Worst case it sucks hind tit and best case it’s like sliced bread, but fresh. So fantastic.
Run the crap out of it and give us some feedback.
ETA: assuming you have a spare mom HD/duty type AR. If not build one.
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Hammer_Man
10-24-18, 22:04
I would recommend AO Precision, or Toolcraft if you're on a budget. I have purchased mine from Right to Bear, and keep them for spares. Either are regularly priced below $100, and check all the right boxes in regards to specs.
pgh_builder
10-25-18, 08:14
Most of these are echoed here, but the BCG's I trust are:
1. BCM
2. Colt
3. Wilson Combat
4. LMT
5. Daniel Deffense
These are all tried and true.
Vegasshooter
10-25-18, 14:28
I’m going to say it...100% tried and true: Sionics NP3. I have several, and they are tops.
Most everything I’m shooting now is KAC, but Sionics is top shelf kit.
I put a Sionics NP3 BCG into my Centurion group buy build, and thoroughly like it so far. It was less expensive than a standard BCM.
The f1 is a rebranded cryptic coatings which is a pvd/cvd toolcraft bcg. They are excellent and the pvd finish is second to none. I personally have a black mystic cryptic coatings bcg that had just over 25k documented rounds fired before I retired it.
I have a griffin bcg as well and the machine work is as good as anything I’ve ever seen. ADM uses the same bcg in their excellent rifles.
Is anyone familiar with the F1 Durabolt BCG? Is it any good? Found a deal on them but dont know anything about them and I trust most here.
They have a Griffen Armament too but Griffen seems to stir up some controversy for whatever reason. Personally I have never used any of their stuff so I'm blind there too.
Opinions? Should I just go with another BCM?
Texduramax
10-27-18, 13:01
I would recommend AO Precision, or Toolcraft if you're on a budget. I have purchased mine from Right to Bear, and keep them for spares. Either are regularly priced below $100, and check all the right boxes in regards to specs.
I concur with Hammer_Man.
I have never heard of either F1 Durabolt or Griffen Armament so I can not speak for their quality, however, C-158 Toolcrafts have served me well and I will continue to utilize them until they don't.
FYI... Right To Bear (https://www.righttobear.com/Toolcraft-Phosphate-158-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-B-p/tooauto-011.htm) has them for $79. If the deal you are looking at can beat that price, then go for it.
Wow, thanks for all of your advice and wisdom. I hadn't heard of that bolt either but I thought I had heard them mentioned here before but a search told me I was apparently wrong. But since my tech skills are subpar I thought I'd just ask.
My plan was, if they were even marginally worth messing with, was to transfer one of my BCMs from my budget pistol to this new build and use the F1 there. Looks like I'll just be sticking with BCM.
I'm not at all in the habit of putting questionable quality parts in anything I own, guns or otherwise. But you guys know of or have used many different parts/brands than I probably even know exist, hence my original question.
Once again for clarification. Toolcraft does not make bolts. If they are still using one of the vendors they use to use, I would steer clear.
Unless you have a good reason to switch,
I would not try to fix what ain’t broken.
I mainly use LMT BCG’s, however I will pick up a Toolcraft BCG when they go on sale as a spare... and same for when I find an LMT. I grab it. I stick to what I know works.
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Have you ever had any issues with "dropping" these BCG's in any of your AR rifles, and had malfunctions? Just curious.
I’m going to say it...100% tried and true: Sionics NP3. I have several, and they are tops.
Most everything I’m shooting now is KAC, but Sionics is top shelf kit.
I have a Sionics phosphate BCG - less expensive and probably harder to clean than their NP3 line, but top quality.
They are also about $30 less than BCM the last time I checked.
Andy
RobertTheTexan
10-27-18, 18:26
Have you ever had any issues with "dropping" these BCG's in any of your AR rifles, and had malfunctions? Just curious.
The majority of my AR’s have LMT - so that’s what’s going to have the most mileage on them. No, I’ve never had a single failure with an LMT BCG. Or when I’ve used an Enhanced LMT carrier and standard bolt. Never an issue. And I’ve had some LMT BCG’s that have been abused as far as BCG’s go. Never once an issue. I trust them explicitly.
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Once again for clarification. Toolcraft does not make bolts. If they are still using one of the vendors they use to use, I would steer clear.
I know a vendor will have things made per the specs (and $$$ paid) by the buyer. So maybe Toolcraft has different "levels" of product depending on your requirements and how much you are willing to pay. They have a cage code (or whatever) for military replacement BCG's so they must meet specs in that "level" of product, no?
The majority of my AR’s have LMT - so that’s what’s going to have the most mileage on them. No, I’ve never had a single failure with an LMT BCG. Or when I’ve used an Enhanced LMT carrier and standard bolt. Never an issue. And I’ve had some LMT BCG’s that have been abused as far as BCG’s go. Never once an issue. I trust them explicitly.
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I'm curious as to exactly which part number LMT BCG you use and recommend.
I'm curious as to exactly which part number LMT BCG you use and recommend.
I may be wrong but I think he's referring to the standard phosphate LMT bolt, with perhaps an Enhanced carrier on occasion.
RobertTheTexan
10-28-18, 01:48
I'm curious as to exactly which part number LMT BCG you use and recommend.
My go to for any rifle 14.5 or greater is their Full Auto standard BCG - L7D3.
For anything shorter than 14.5, I normally run the L7Q3A Full Auto Enhanced Carrier (no bolt). For the bolt- in my case when I swapped out my L7D3’s the round count was low enough I felt comfortable pulling the bolt from the L7D3 BCG and using it in the Enhanced carrier. So standard bolt with enhanced carrier. For the new builds where I’m not replacing an L7D3, I use a Sionics bolt.
Sionics sells a “bolt completion kit” that has an NP3 bolt and cam pin. Also includes a firing pin and firing pin retaining pin. Their bolt is made with Carpenter 158 steel, which is mil spec. The bolt also has improved extractor springs, so if you are a guy who upgrades the extractor springs in your bolt - that’s already done. That’s a plus.
I’ll post the links to each part, it might make it easier to check out. As a side note, while LMT usually has stock, I’ve found better deals in the FA BCG (standard) st DSG Arms and I want to say Strong Side Tactical, but may have been Tombstone Tactical... point being it won’t hurt to shop around. Just be sure your looking at the full auto version rather than semi-auto version. FA is heavier.
LMT Standard FA BCG L7D3:
https://lmtdefense.com/parts/l7d3
LMT Enhanced FA Carrier L7Q3A
https://lmtdefense.com/parts/l7q3a
Sionics Bolt Completion Kit
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/bolt-carrier-group-components/106-bolt-carrier-group-hpmpi-tested-with-np3-carrier.html
In my opinion, the L7Q3A + Sionics Bolt Completion Kit is a winning combo and I believe there are some reliability gains with the carrier, and I believe NP3 is a superior coating than NiB.
Let me know if you have any questions.
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I know a vendor will have things made per the specs (and $$$ paid) by the buyer. So maybe Toolcraft has different "levels" of product depending on your requirements and how much you are willing to pay. They have a cage code (or whatever) for military replacement BCG's so they must meet specs in that "level" of product, no?
Toolcraft bolt carriers being marked with their CAGE code doesn't mean that every BCG is manufactured or tested to meet military specifications. It just means that Toolcraft made the bolt carrier.
I have a Toolcraft CAGE marked BCG and it is well staked, nicely finished and has functioned perfectly, but I am under no illusion that it is "Mil-Spec".
Andy
Regarding F1 marked BCG:
I have a BCG with the carrier marked "f1" to the right of the cam hole and left of the firing pin retaining pin hole (it came with a correctly marked MPF bolt with correct copper-colored spring and black insert) that was sold to me as made by FN.
I was able to find a company called F1 that markets a "5.56 DURABOLT BLACK NITRIDE - BOLT CARRIER GROUP" http://f-1firearms.com/f-1-firearms-durabolt-black-nitride-5-56-nato-bolt-carrier-group/
https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ph1212/products/152/images/851/TRX_F1_5928__88151.1457364266.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
I would like to see the complete BCG with their CAGE code in a package. The only ones I recall seeing were actual carrier bodies, and not bolts. If someone has some pictures of an entire BCG in the package with a CAGE on there, it would be interesting to see it.
I know a vendor will have things made per the specs (and $$$ paid) by the buyer. So maybe Toolcraft has different "levels" of product depending on your requirements and how much you are willing to pay. They have a cage code (or whatever) for military replacement BCG's so they must meet specs in that "level" of product, no?
I would like to see the complete BCG with their CAGE code in a package. The only ones I recall seeing were actual carrier bodies, and not bolts. If someone has some pictures of an entire BCG in the package with a CAGE on there, it would be interesting to see it.
I thought we had a thread some time ago on here about Toolcraft making them as replacements for the USMC. Was it just the carriers? I don't recall.
wetidlerjr
10-29-18, 04:19
I thought we had a thread some time ago on here about Toolcraft making them as replacements for the USMC. Was it just the carriers? I don't recall.
I didn't see any cage codes listed on their website.
Hammer_Man
10-29-18, 05:20
WC Armory sells Toolcraft bcgs with a cage code 1B1B6. They do not state who the bolts come from, but the carriers are Toolcraft with their cage code engraved on the side.
WC Armory sells Toolcraft bcgs with a cage code 1B1B6. They do not state who the bolts come from, but the carriers are Toolcraft with their cage code engraved on the side.
I'm sure I don't shooter nearly as many rounds through my AR's as some of you guys do, as my focus is pistol. I do use Toolcraft C-158's as my go to's for most of my builds. Numerous rifles with several thousand rounds each, none with problems.
We've heard before that very few folks make their bolt's in-house, instead sourcing from vendors. We've also heard from sources on here about different manufacturers using substandard vendors.
I'll continue to buy Toolcraft's until I have a bad experience or an given reliable data on specific failures.
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