View Full Version : Active shooting at pittsburgh synagogue
4-8 shot/dead so far. SWAT clearing building now, but still active:
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/10/27/heavy-police-presence-near-synagogue-in-squirrel-hill/
Here we go. I knew it had to happen before the election.
Not to diminish the lives lost and families broken but I know the Left is going to eat this up all week long.
The Border Mob and MAGAbomber are old hat now. The Libs got a gun to talk about.
ramairthree
10-27-18, 10:39
Interesting. Literally yesterday a friend said-
“How many days until election? Things aren’t looking good.
Probably be a white guy in a MAGA hat shooting up Jews or blacks while sounding like a drunk, manic Mel Gibson any day now.
It will be as cartoonish as the bombs and the crazy psych Ford chick.”
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181027/3287b53901b7f2dc8893080855b4d101.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The CBS analysis has already connected it to this week's bombings by suggesting they inspired today's events.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181027/3287b53901b7f2dc8893080855b4d101.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is a fact.
RetroRevolver77
10-27-18, 11:08
deleted
I was expecting a school shooting sometime next week.
The guy was anti-Zionist, says Trump is a Globalist, sounds like a lefty Socialist, Hitler loving piece of shit.
Then it will disappear from the media asap.
I was expecting a school shooting sometime next week.
Schools have hardened up their game a fair amount and may be having shooters starting to look for softer targets is my guess.
Shooter now in custody. Seems like less of them seem willing to go down shooting or off themselves these days
Just made some purchases this week anticipating something like this would happen. The media will do everything they can to use this to further the progressive agenda.
I'm guessing that the perp didn't use an AR, since it hasn't been splashed all over the media?
Let me guess... older white guy, loves Trump....:rolleyes:
And Dems have made a point of saying gun control is gonna top their agenda if they win in Nov?
Funny, that meme up there came out a couple days ago...
Here's my surprised face. -_-
A “bearded heavy-set white male” was in custody, KDKA said, adding that responding officers “received fire.”
===
According to the synagogue's website, Rabbi Hazzan Jeffrey Myers usually leads its Saturday service. In July, Myers wrote an essay, titled, "We Deserve Better," for the synagogue's website, which focuses on several issues, including gun control. Myers wrote:
"Despite continuous calls for sensible gun control and mental health care, our elected leaders in Washington knew that it would fade away in time. Unless there is a dramatic turnaround in the mid-term elections, I fear that that the status quo will remain unchanged, and school shootings will resume. I shouldn't have to include in my daily morning prayers that God should watch over my wife and daughter, both teachers, and keep them safe. Where are our leaders?"
===
At least 8 dead in shooting at Pittsburgh synagogue -- live updates
===
The suspect burst into the synagogue and indiscriminately fired in the building while shouting, "All Jews must die," police sources told KDKA.
===
and... there we have it.... Got the buzz word in....
Witnesses tell the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that the gunfire sounded like an automatic weapon.
===
The man suspected of ‘killing at least eight people’ during a prayer service at a US synagogue has been named by US media.
R*b*rt B*w*rs reportedly burst into the Tree of Life Congregation Synagogue in Pittsburgh carrying multiple weapons before unleashing bullets on terrified worshippers. ( the missing letters are o and e )
The 46-year-old also reportedly yelled ‘all Jews must die’ and was shouting antisemitism statements.
===
He was armed with an AR15. He wrote on social media... “HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics. I’m going in.” ( HIAS = Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society ). Multiple handguns. Active poster on "alt-right" site Gab.
===
"For the record, I did not vote for him nor have I owned, worn or even touched a maga hat." The murder suspect
===
“Trump is a globalist, not a nationalist. There is no #MAGA as long as there is a k*** infestation. #Qanon is here to get patriots that were against martial law in the 90’s to be ones begging for it now to drain muh swamp. But go ahead and keep saying you are #Winning.”
The murder suspect
A “bearded heavy-set white male” was in custody, KDKA said, adding that responding officers “received fire.”
3 LEOs shot! Damn. As that too seems to be happening more often I'm wondering if they're stuck with some new ROE these days?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-responding-active-shooter-pittsburgh-synagogue/story?id=58790381&cid=social_fb_abcn
Shooter now in custody. Seems like less of them seem willing to go down shooting or off themselves these days
I have noticed this unfortunate trend.
And looks like a new record for making it political...
Tom Wolf "...But we have been saying “this one is too many” for far too long. Dangerous weapons are putting our citizens in harm’s way."
3 LEOs shot! Damn.
Yes, and I read he had to crawl out. So you have to wonder was he near death or sufficiently protected by gear to the point he survived all of them shooting at him.
Trump says he thinks a guard would have helped. Pretty much. In this day and age of cameras, electronic locks, etc. There is no reason not to secure your congregation. I've never seen a church service where people are constantly coming and going once it starts. To the bathroom perhaps but not outside to inside and back and forth.
PatrioticDisorder
10-27-18, 12:40
https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/robert-bowers/
It’s being reported an AR-15 was the primary weapon used. Shooter made it clear he did not vote for Trump or a MAGA supporter, the rest of this stuff is a bit wacky, the guy was definitely on the kook fringe of society.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/robert-bowers/
It’s being reported an AR-15 was the primary weapon used. Shooter made it clear he did not vote for Trump or a MAGA supporter, the rest of this stuff is a bit wacky, the guy was definitely on the kook fringe of society.
My $ is on another guy well known to LE, perhaps the FBI, probably numerous points of contact with LE that may have been cause to remove his ability to own firearms, etc, that will then be blamed on the tool used vs any human factors.
PatrioticDisorder
10-27-18, 12:54
My $ is on another guy well known to LE, perhaps the FBI, probably numerous points of contact with LE that may have been cause to remove his ability to own firearms, etc, that will then be blamed on the tool used vs any human factors.
Agreed.
My $ is on another guy well known to LE, perhaps the FBI, probably numerous points of contact with LE that may have been cause to remove his ability to own firearms, etc, that will then be blamed on the tool used vs any human factors.
PA Governor has already said "dangerous weapons are putting our citizens in harm's way" in his press release on the shooting.
The guy was anti-Zionist, says Trump is a Globalist, sounds like a lefty Socialist, Hitler loving piece of shit.
Although I am no expert on this kind of thinking, I have run into folks in person and online who spout a lot stuff about Zionists and Ashkenazi Jews. So is this a position of what is called the "Alt-Right"?
It's getting hard for me to figure out who is what on both the Left and Right anymore. I guess me being a Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Fiscal Conservative, Social Conservative and Christian Constitutional Conservative isn't enough any longer. We've got more classifications and segments to understand.
PatrioticDisorder
10-27-18, 13:58
Although I am no expert on this kind of thinking, I have run into folks in person and online who spout a lot stuff about Zionists and Ashkenazi Jews. So is this a position of what is called the "Alt-Right"?
It's getting hard for me to figure out who is what on both the Left and Right anymore. I guess me being a Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Fiscal Conservative, Social Conservative and Christian Constitutional Conservative isn't enough any longer. We've got more classifications and segments to understand.
It seems the so called “alt-right” are a bunch of confused leftists, I share nothing in common with these fools.
The_War_Wagon
10-27-18, 14:05
Jewish boy (late 20's) I know works here (http://anthonyarms.com/) - we've talked about Synagogue & Church security issues many times. He DOES security for his Synagogue IN Squirrel Hill (one of two big Jewish communities in Pittsburgh; Mt. Lebanon in the South Hills being the other. The shooter lives in between me & Mt. Lebanon - our three communities are right together; I've only been here 16 years, but I've NEVER seen this fruitcake in a gun shop, gunshow, gun bash, etc.), but I don't know if it was THIS synagogue or not - sure hoping he's OK.
Jewish boy (late 20's) I know works here (http://anthonyarms.com/) - we've talked about Synagogue & Church security issues many times. He DOES security for his Synagogue IN Squirrel Hill (one of two big Jewish communities in Pittsburgh; Mt. Lebanon in the South Hills being the other. The shooter lives in between me & Mt. Lebanon - our three communities are right together; I've only been here 16 years, but I've NEVER seen this fruitcake in a gun shop, gunshow, gun bash, etc.), but I don't know if it was THIS synagogue or not - sure hoping he's OK.
Might be a stupid Q, but armed security? Uniformed? Non? Background?
The_War_Wagon
10-27-18, 14:10
PA Governor has already said "dangerous weapons are putting our citizens in harm's way" in his press release on the shooting.
He's a 5-Alarm schmuck-up. Unfortunately, the Republicans are running a 6-alarm schmuck-up against him. Hopefully, the big red "T" will save us from Harrisburg, and the 2 blue 'anchors' of PA through the NEXT election cycle.
The_War_Wagon
10-27-18, 14:12
Might be a stupid Q, but armed security? Uniformed? Non? Background?
He's ALWAYS armed - trained - he teaches at their indoor range. But again, I DON'T know if this was his synagogue or not. Or if he was at THIS particular service.
Unlikely.... I think this synagogue has an open door policy. No security.
The_War_Wagon
10-27-18, 14:50
OK - apparently this fudgetard lived in an apartment about 3 miles away from me!!! :eek: Bomb squad is going through his place now - watch it here live - https://www.wpxi.com/live-stream
The death toll from the shooting has gone up to at least 10, according to the Press Association...... I've got a bad feeling one of these is also going to be LEO. Maybe one is the murderer as well.
11 Dead now. 4 LEO injured (update) non-life threatening to LEO.
Just as I predicted last week.
so they are saying the FBI knew him ?
how is it the FBI seems to know so many shooters and yet they still seem to be able to do this ?
just like the boston bombers were known terrorists and they did nothing ?
if this guy was truly known and had issues they need to start doing more BUT how many people are KNOWN ? and is that thrown around as a word to use like assault rifle ?
11 more kids will die today from a cell phone and not watching what they are doing driving ! we have bigger issues that nobody talks about though but this stuff is sad no matter what when innocents get targeted by a nut job
The_War_Wagon
10-27-18, 15:42
so they are saying the FBI knew him ?
HALF of Utah is a domestic spying repository, but the FBI couldn't stop a Yugo with stopsticks. I think the FBI spends most of their effort spying on each other's spouses (a la "True Lies") :rolleyes:
Just as I predicted last week.
I was pretty comfortable writing the timing of the attempted bombings off as a coincidence.
That's probably what this is too, but I'll admit the portion of my brain devoted to conspiracy theories is now paying a bit more attention.
Coal Dragger
10-27-18, 16:37
so they are saying the FBI knew him ?
how is it the FBI seems to know so many shooters and yet they still seem to be able to do this ?
just like the boston bombers were known terrorists and they did nothing ?
if this guy was truly known and had issues they need to start doing more BUT how many people are KNOWN ? and is that thrown around as a word to use like assault rifle ?
11 more kids will die today from a cell phone and not watching what they are doing driving ! we have bigger issues that nobody talks about though but this stuff is sad no matter what when innocents get targeted by a nut job
Because the FBI is a completely worthless organization, staffed by lazy indifferent morons. They prove this time and time again missing events like this when they’re hiding in plain sight, while devoting time and resources to trying to entrap politicians they don’t like and spying on people.
Long past due to disband the agency, and terminate all of them from US Government service.
FlyingHunter
10-27-18, 16:39
Prayers up for those impacted by this lunatic. I've never been able to grasp why there is so much hate directed to those of Jewish faith. Sad.
Because the FBI is a completely worthless organization, staffed by lazy indifferent morons. They prove this time and time again missing events like this when they’re hiding in plain sight, while devoting time and resources to trying to entrap politicians they don’t like and spying on people.
Long past due to disband the agency, and terminate all of them from US Government service.
movie line " I AM A FBI AGENT" as he is in the back of a van before or after surfing for his undercover work :) reckon real life then hahahahahahahah
yeah they seem pretty worthless and more a tool politicians use as muscle
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-27-18, 17:26
I too have never understood the whole anti-semtiism thing. I always found the Move-on attack on the 1% a thinly veiled attack on ‘bankers’ which is code for Jews. The Occupy love of Palestinians was a clue too.
So more of an”Info Wars” type guy?
I started a thread just a few days ago saying we were due for a mass shooting, but I thought that was too morbid. Not saying it is a conspiracy or anything like that, just that we haven’t had one recently.
[QUOTE=WillBrink;2670900]3 LEOs shot! Damn. As that too seems to be happening more often I'm wondering if they're stuck with some new ROE these days?
I don't think it is a new ROE, I've not heard anything earth shaking from the guys I used to work with. Active Shooter response tactics vary. Most response plans are not designed to maximize officer safety at the risk of additional injury to persons inside the location.
If the mass murderer chooses to engage police instead of suicide or surrender, the rapid deployment of police personnel into the area serves to divert the mass murderer's attention from committing more murders to self-protection from the responding officers. In a textbook response the officers are moving very rapidly, often solo, or in a team of two or three, this increases the danger to them exponentially.
Police give first timeline of attack
Police received calls regarding an active shooter at 9:54 a.m. on Saturday. Officers were sent to the shooting scene one minute later. The suspected gunman, Robert Bowers, spent 20 minutes inside the synagogue before police arrived, FBI Special Agent Robert Jones said.
When Bowers attempted to exit the building, he encountered two police officers and exchanged gunfire with them. Both of the officers were wounded, Jones said. Bowers retreated back into the building to hide from two additional officers who were arriving at the scene.
The two officers engaged the suspect inside the building and one was injured. He eventually surrendered to police and was taken into custody.
"Multiple agencies responded to this incident this morning and without their courage, this tragedy would have been far worse," Wendell Hissrich, Pittsburgh's public safety director, said Saturday.
Averageman
10-27-18, 18:19
No matter how much I anticipated the violence we are seeing as we go in to this election cycle, the reality hits and you really begin to become further disappointed in humanity.
I've never understood antisemitism.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-27-18, 18:29
The suspected gunman, Robert Bowers, spent 20 minutes inside the synagogue before police arrived, FBI Special Agent Robert Jones said.
What da Hell?
Because the FBI is a completely worthless organization, staffed by lazy indifferent morons. They prove this time and time again missing events like this when they’re hiding in plain sight, while devoting time and resources to trying to entrap politicians they don’t like and spying on people.
Long past due to disband the agency, and terminate all of them from US Government service.
I've known and worked with federal agents, FBI, IRS, DEA....to say that they are all lazy and indifferent is not thinking critically. Like any organization staffed by people, you have good ones, average ones and bad ones. And, like many organizations, there is an underlying friction/contempt between the worker bee's and the management.
I think rather than disbanding agencies, the more relevant action might be to step back and consider if their function needs to change due to technology and specialization.
Their are a total of 13,000 FBI Agents and about 20,000 support personnel. Given the situation today, I would tend to think increasing the number of support/technical personnel and concentrating on liaison with state local LE agencies would be a good course for the FBI.
However, there will always need to be Federal LEO's as long as local LEO's are not tasked with investigation and enforcement of federal laws.
But let's consider the anti-Semitic shooter this thread is about. Their are 13,000 agents, I'm pretty sure that there are more than 13,000 bat shit crazy people flashing across the threat radar. Ain't going to get them all.
What da Hell?
Yeah, I read that and wondered, was it from the time of the 911 call and dispatch? or was he there for several minutes before he started shooting? or was he shooting for several minutes before someone got through to 911?
Like to know more.
Averageman
10-27-18, 18:39
But let's consider the anti-Semitic shooter this thread is about. Their are 13,000 agents, I'm pretty sure that there are more than 13,000 bat shit crazy people flashing across the threat radar. Ain't going to get them all.
I'm not sure how they operate, but when they have to go interview someone in regards to Mass shooting threats, bombing threats etc. do they take local LEO's along for the interview process.
The FBI can't be everywhere, either can local LEO's but I would feel a lot safer if the locals were in on some of this, it might create an overlap that would be helpful in watching these guys.
I'm not sure how they operate, but when they have to go interview someone in regards to Mass shooting threats, bombing threats etc. do they take local LEO's along for the interview process.
The FBI can't be everywhere, either can local LEO's but I would feel a lot safer if the locals were in on some of this, it might create an overlap that would be helpful in watching these guys.
I cant speak for the entire nation, but my experience is that local LEO's often don't have a clue that feds are working something in their AO. Heck, there is butthurt all around when LEO's find out the state drug unit is working something in their AO without telling them.
From the other side of the fence, in an 8-hour day, if an agent had to run down 6 leads, in 6 different jurisdictions, they'd get nothing done but briefing LEO's on what they have....so their mindset is probably, let's see if we have something first.
Another way to handle that would be have task forces comprised of feds and area LEO's, but that takes away resources from local agencies who may already have folks gone supporting a DEA or ATF task force.
So what is the solution we are going to have to come up with?
I don't like hearing FBI: "we knew about this guy" after each one of these either but until someone commits a crime what is the solution.
The Left will say take all the guns starting with ARs. We all know that's BS. Yet a solution is necessary and our side will have to provide it.
So what get's me with this guy is what exactly would deter him. If you wake up one morning and decide ok, I'm going to do "X". They seem to ignore the part about dying in the process. So would a death penalty deter them? I'm thinking, no.
Even if the FBI assigned a personal agent to every "we knew about him" type guy, they still can't read his mind. If he posts on Facebook he's going to burn it down today, fine... how are you going to find and stop him? You can't.
I don't get the hate of Jews either. Never have understood that, especially not in context of the USA. with that in mind though... Jehovah's witnesses have built secure worship facilities for as long as I can remember specifically for the hardening against religious attacks. "Well we're an open door deal"... Yeah, so are the Catholics, they still rape little boys. If you don't understand that you need to lock the doors to your car, house, gym locker, desk drawer, business, and yes your Church... then you need a smack upside the head. It's not a sign of casting away, it's a sign of keeping safe what you already have. This is at least three churches now that -could have- saved a lot of lives. "well we have to trust God and be open" BS... God doesn't need you to trust in him to the point you get everyone killed when trouble comes to town. Do you leave your doors and windows open in a storm, a hurricane?
The Left has one answer which we all know is non-solution. Somebody better think of something pretty damn quick. Like I said, it probably won;t deter anything but I would be ok with a "same day trial". This would be when interrogation was over. All the facts gathered that can be. Have a trial that day and kill them that night.
The woman that bought her son the rifle knowing he was a danger should be put under the jail.
But again, death to these people does not seem to be a real priority. For themselves I mean. When I wake up in the morning I hope I stay alive all day and repeat the process. Apparently these guys don't see life that way. How do you deter that mindset?
MountainRaven
10-27-18, 19:48
NPR is reporting that the FBI SAC does not believe that the PODS was known to LE.
So what is the solution we are going to have to come up with?
I don't like hearing FBI: "we knew about this guy" after each one of these either but until someone commits a crime what is the solution.
But again, death to these people does not seem to be a real priority. For themselves I mean. When I wake up in the morning I hope I stay alive all day and repeat the process. Apparently these guys don't see life that way. How do you deter that mindset?
In a nutshell we have to accept some things if we are going to live with any semblance of freedom. We need to do a better job of getting everyone to understand that.
There will always be bad people, nothing we can do is going to stop them. Our best defense is vigilance and involvement with others.
Before I scheduled a semi-elective surgery in 2009, I asked the Doc 'I've been under general a lot in the last couple years, does that increase my risks?' Apparently that gets asked a lot, because he referenced the stats on miles driven per fatality accident, and deaths from anesthesia during surgery. I was more at risk driving home.
If you stop and think about it, everything we do in life is a balanced risk versus benefit. Planes are going to crash, are you going to fly, etc.
We need to be cognizant of that, and, most of us aren't.
I just dread this false Utopian land of bliss with no guns that the Dems are going to push again. If they were not just flat out lying to get votes and pad their pockets, maybe I wouldn't have as much a problem with it. But it's just a giant lie heaped on top of a sick crime.
Reminds me of that scene in Breaking Bad where Skyler has had enough of Marie and keeps telling her to shut up. That's what it's like with the Dems. They don't want a solution. They want our guns and honestly at this point in the game. I think they just want them now for spite.
Crime is a factor in our lives that's for sure but we need to develop solutions to at least make some of the most serious stuff more difficult. Especially when a pretty strong solution is to simply lock a door and install some cameras.
In a nutshell we have to accept some things if we are going to live with any semblance of freedom. We need to do a better job of getting everyone to understand that.
There will always be bad people, nothing we can do is going to stop them. Our best defense is vigilance and involvement with others.
Before I scheduled a semi-elective surgery in 2009, I asked the Doc 'I've been under general a lot in the last couple years, does that increase my risks?' Apparently that gets asked a lot, because he referenced the stats on miles driven per fatality accident, and deaths from anesthesia during surgery. I was more at risk driving home.
If you stop and think about it, everything we do in life is a balanced risk versus benefit. Planes are going to crash, are you going to fly, etc.
We need to be cognizant of that, and, most of us aren't.
Like what?
Are you referring to "accepting" things that really put a dent in these atrocious acts or what the other side would like to force on us? Example: the Left will want to take guns. That won't put a dent in anything, and it will certainly create many more problems than it solves. I would suggest, when guilt is not in doubt (like in this case and the Florida school shooting for instance), that they be tried and executed the next morning. Both of those situations involve "accepting" things we aren't accustomed to.
Like what?
Are you referring to "accepting" things that really put a dent in these atrocious acts or what the other side would like to force on us? Example: the Left will want to take guns. That won't put a dent in anything, and it will certainly create many more problems than it solves. I would suggest, when guilt is not in doubt (like in this case and the Florida school shooting for instance), that they be tried and executed the next morning. Both of those situations involve "accepting" things we aren't accustomed to.
I think 26 Inf was just remarking that freedom comes with a certain level of danger (the rest of his post makes that clear), and that in a country the size of the US with a population of 300+ million people and climbing there will be the occasional mass shooting (which would continue to be true if there was a total ban on civilian firearms ownership starting tomorrow).
As tragic as these events are, they are also statistically incredibly rare. That they have come to be such a fixture in the collective national psyche is more a reflection of the state of our national news media (competition for ratings and ad revenue, if it bleeds it leads, etc) and an innate human tendency towards fascination with tragedy and violence.
Like what?
Are you referring to "accepting" things that really put a dent in these atrocious acts or what the other side would like to force on us? Example: the Left will want to take guns. That won't put a dent in anything, and it will certainly create many more problems than it solves. I would suggest, when guilt is not in doubt (like in this case and the Florida school shooting for instance), that they be tried and executed the next morning. Both of those situations involve "accepting" things we aren't accustomed to.
How about the fact that evil exists in the world and you and everyone else should do what they can to prepare accordingly?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think 26 Inf was just remarking that freedom comes with a certain level of danger (the rest of his post makes that clear), and that in a country the size of the US with a population of 300+ million people and climbing there will be the occasional mass shooting (which would continue to be true if there was a total ban on civilian firearms ownership starting tomorrow).
As tragic as these events are, they are also statistically incredibly rare. That they have come to be such a fixture in the collective national psyche is more a reflection of the state of our national news media (competition for ratings and ad revenue, if it bleeds it leads, etc) and an innate human tendency towards fascination with tragedy and violence.
I read it as we may need to accept some kind of compromise (that will obviously screw us over like with guns) in order to live with that "semblance" of freedom. I see what you're driving at though, and that may be the case. It wasn't accusatory, it was basically asking for clarification.
BoringGuy45
10-27-18, 20:51
I've known and worked with federal agents, FBI, IRS, DEA....to say that they are all lazy and indifferent is not thinking critically. Like any organization staffed by people, you have good ones, average ones and bad ones. And, like many organizations, there is an underlying friction/contempt between the worker bee's and the management.
I think rather than disbanding agencies, the more relevant action might be to step back and consider if their function needs to change due to technology and specialization.
Their are a total of 13,000 FBI Agents and about 20,000 support personnel. Given the situation today, I would tend to think increasing the number of support/technical personnel and concentrating on liaison with state local LE agencies would be a good course for the FBI.
However, there will always need to be Federal LEO's as long as local LEO's are not tasked with investigation and enforcement of federal laws.
But let's consider the anti-Semitic shooter this thread is about. Their are 13,000 agents, I'm pretty sure that there are more than 13,000 bat shit crazy people flashing across the threat radar. Ain't going to get them all.
Of course, it would go without saying that of the 13,000 FBI agents, you'll find many, many excellent ones with their heads and hearts in the right place for the job. And I would also agree that pointing to their failures to stop these shootings is using the same logical fallacy that anti-gunners use when they point to these shootings as proof that "assault weapons" are only used for mass murder: The, coincidentally named, Texas sharpshooter fallacy (using only examples that support one's claim while ignoring all examples that disprove it). There are no doubt many mass shootings that were prevented, by the FBI and other agencies, that no doubt never even made more than a footnote in local news sources.
However, with that being said, the FBI does do a number of things that annoys both me and others in law enforcement. First, they demand to be the lead in any investigation in which they are involved. They act as though their authority exceeds that of all other agencies in all situations, including other federal agencies. They demand that all other agencies, local, state, and federal, share all their intelligence and evidence with them, but refuse to share any of their information with other agencies.
I also wonder how much the FBI is needed these days though, at least in their current state. Most of their areas of expertise and jurisdiction are covered by other federal agencies that specialize in those areas. The DEA covers drug crime, obviously. ICE covers terrorism and transnational crime, as well as cyber crime. DSS, Secret Service, Marshals, and US Capitol Police investigate threats to U.S. officials. The IRS-CI, ICE, and Secret Service all investigate financial crime. The Marshals handle fugitive recovery, and assist local LE with multi-state crimes. The FBI does...all of the above, but really doesn't specialize in any of it. And they think they're better at all of those things than all those other agencies. Plus, the FBI is, and has been pretty much for their entire existence, the most political of the federal law enforcement agencies. So I wonder if the FBI were to dissolve if we would really lose a whole hell of a lot. I don't think we would, as all the other agencies would pretty quickly pick up the slack.
My dealings with the FBI have been less than stellar. Case in point: several years ago I responded to a bank robbery. After much footwork the perp was identified and, to make a long story short I arrested him at the bus station getting ready to leave town. I took him to the PD when two FBI agents showed up and took custody of him. The next day all the headlines say "FBI solves bank robbery and makes arrest". Anyway, I digress.
I read it as we may need to accept some kind of compromise (that will obviously screw us over like with guns) in order to live with that "semblance" of freedom. I see what you're driving at though, and that may be the case. It wasn't accusatory, it was basically asking for clarification.
Tx_Aggie nailed it.
The_War_Wagon
10-27-18, 21:37
I was pretty comfortable writing the timing of the attempted bombings off as a coincidence.
That's probably what this is too, but I'll admit the portion of my brain devoted to conspiracy theories is now paying a bit more attention.
"The universe is rarely so lazy..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBTQqSNA3oQ
This synagogue was progressive egalitarian, which means they hate everything I believe in.
Because the FBI is a completely worthless organization, staffed by lazy indifferent morons. They prove this time and time again missing events like this when they’re hiding in plain sight, while devoting time and resources to trying to entrap politicians they don’t like and spying on people.
Long past due to disband the agency, and terminate all of them from US Government service.
There are a number of FBI agents here at M4C who post and lurk that share your interests, values, and observations on the...peculiarities...of their employer. The broad brush you paint them with is unjust, and not acceptable conduct.
This synagogue was progressive egalitarian, which means they hate everything I believe in.
What does egalitarian mean in the context of your comment?
Generally, when I've heard it in relationship to Church it is reference to allowing women to preach or hold leadership positions.
Just curious if that is what you meant as I don't know whether Orthodox Jewish folks allow women Rabbis.
Regardless, the shooter was a pox upon humanity.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-27-18, 23:11
I was pretty comfortable writing the timing of the attempted bombings off as a coincidence.
That's probably what this is too, but I'll admit the portion of my brain devoted to conspiracy theories is now paying a bit more attention.
I don't think that it is a conspiracy, I think that it is the MSM ratchets up the tenor and temp closer to elections and it triggers the infinitesimal percentage that will light off. That and the mean time between the 0.0000002% of people that decide to shoot up their school or place of work.
3 LEOs shot! Damn. As that too seems to be happening more often I'm wondering if they're stuck with some new ROE these days?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-responding-active-shooter-pittsburgh-synagogue/story?id=58790381&cid=social_fb_abcn
After Parkland I think "go directly inside no matter what" is the new SOP, for better or worse. As much as "active shooter" is pretty much the same thing, the environments are usually all unique. The Wells Fargo one turned out well, this one didn't go so well.
So what is the solution we are going to have to come up with?
I don't like hearing FBI: "we knew about this guy" after each one of these either but until someone commits a crime what is the solution.
The Left will say take all the guns starting with ARs. We all know that's BS. Yet a solution is necessary and our side will have to provide it.
So what get's me with this guy is what exactly would deter him. If you wake up one morning and decide ok, I'm going to do "X". They seem to ignore the part about dying in the process. So would a death penalty deter them? I'm thinking, no.
Even if the FBI assigned a personal agent to every "we knew about him" type guy, they still can't read his mind. If he posts on Facebook he's going to burn it down today, fine... how are you going to find and stop him? You can't.
I don't get the hate of Jews either. Never have understood that, especially not in context of the USA. with that in mind though... Jehovah's witnesses have built secure worship facilities for as long as I can remember specifically for the hardening against religious attacks. "Well we're an open door deal"... Yeah, so are the Catholics, they still rape little boys. If you don't understand that you need to lock the doors to your car, house, gym locker, desk drawer, business, and yes your Church... then you need a smack upside the head. It's not a sign of casting away, it's a sign of keeping safe what you already have. This is at least three churches now that -could have- saved a lot of lives. "well we have to trust God and be open" BS... God doesn't need you to trust in him to the point you get everyone killed when trouble comes to town. Do you leave your doors and windows open in a storm, a hurricane?
The Left has one answer which we all know is non-solution. Somebody better think of something pretty damn quick. Like I said, it probably won;t deter anything but I would be ok with a "same day trial". This would be when interrogation was over. All the facts gathered that can be. Have a trial that day and kill them that night.
The woman that bought her son the rifle knowing he was a danger should be put under the jail.
But again, death to these people does not seem to be a real priority. For themselves I mean. When I wake up in the morning I hope I stay alive all day and repeat the process. Apparently these guys don't see life that way. How do you deter that mindset?
No easy answers or we'd already be doing it. But a couple things.
Prior to filing for divorce, my mother notified the FBI that my father was making illegal machine guns and providing them to drug dealers, keep in mind this was South Florida 1983 and that sounded like a very credible tip. The reality is she just needed him busy all day so she could change the locks on the house, throw his clothes on the front yard and turn on the sprinklers, but the FBI and my dad didn't know anything about that. I'm glad they exercised what discretion they did and eventually somebody was bright enough to ask him if he had any martial problems.
As for locked churches, that would be sad. I recently moved back to small town Iowa and went to visit a friend who worked at the high school. It was sort of a shock to discover I couldn't walk into the school at all as all the outside doors required a key. Long gone are the days where you just walk in and ask for a visitors pass. I understand it, but still kind of sad. Would be sadder to decide "I should go to church today" and find the same situation.
Hatred of jews? Part of it is we easily hate any "closed society or group." What are they up to? Why do they operate like that? Jews, mormons, scientologists...it doesn't matter. Anytime any group says "we are different" is easy to treat them different and with suspicion or hate. And it just takes one bad experience to paint them all with the same brush to those who are inclined to do so. I remember being a martial arts instructor who did child safety classes at the local JCC, among other locations, and hearing a staff member teach my group that "jews can only trust other jews" (I guess he thought I was jewish too) and that really doesn't help fix anything either. Hopefully some of those kids became independent thinkers.
And if you mean Adam Lanza's mother as the woman who bought her dangerous kid a rifle, that isn't quite the case, it was hers and she had it locked up, problem is he knew how to get in the safe. She was never even arrested because she was the first person he killed.
How do we stop deranged killers devoted to mass murder? Well that's kind of the problem, it's really hard. If somebody is crazy AND willing to sacrifice their own life to kill someone else, it's really difficult. Look at the BTK guy, had a job, went to church, former military, college educated and seemed like a regular guy who was married with two kids. In reality he was a monster.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader
Moose-Knuckle
10-28-18, 03:42
Just as I predicted last week.
Yup, I said as much in the "And this is how civil war begins" thread concerning the Mid-Terms.
After Parkland I think "go directly inside no matter what" is the new SOP, for better or worse. As much as "active shooter" is pretty much the same thing, the environments are usually all unique. The Wells Fargo one turned out well, this one didn't go so well.
Actually “go inside no matter what” was the SOP after Columbine. And it should have been at Parkland...
This synagogue was progressive egalitarian, which means they hate everything I believe in.And?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Because the FBI is a completely worthless organization, staffed by lazy indifferent morons. They prove this time and time again missing events like this when they’re hiding in plain sight, while devoting time and resources to trying to entrap politicians they don’t like and spying on people.
Long past due to disband the agency, and terminate all of them from US Government service.
We don't hear about the times the FBI intercepted people before something terrible happened. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that with all the crazies coming out of the woodwork since 2016, they have prevented a lot of incidents.
You characterize an entire organization based on a few individuals who we hear about in the press. We all hate it when the media does the same thing with gun owners, the NRA, or Veterans.
I only know two FBI employees, both are warm, caring, and intelligent people.
Andy
Because the FBI is a completely worthless organization, staffed by lazy indifferent morons. They prove this time and time again missing events like this when they’re hiding in plain sight, while devoting time and resources to trying to entrap politicians they don’t like and spying on people.
Long past due to disband the agency, and terminate all of them from US Government service.
Along with ICE, right?
I guess this how the msm is tying this lunatic to President Trump. Apparently they both have similar conspiracy theories. Talk about far fetched, but nothing surprises me about the loony left anymore.
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/39370480/many-of-bomb-suspects-conspiracy-theories-tracked-trumps
And?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
I struggle with how I should feel.
I know these kinds of people, they ruled Israel for the first 30 or so years. Those of us that didn't come from European stock, were considered second class, stupid, dirty. Since I was born in the USA, many times this type of people thought I was one of them and they would open their mouths. you know how those people are, they are uneducated, dirty, they stink, we really aren't sure they are Jews.
Then time marches on, I get called Nazi and spit at, by Jews from the USA. These Jews call themselves progressive, egalitarian, they side with the Palestinians.
I pray every morning and in one of the Psalms we repeat, King David, tells us not even a blade of grass can grow in this world with out the Creator of everything being involved.
So yesterday, in an area full of many different types of synagogues, this piece of trash goes where he went. He could have gone to an Orthodox synagogue where people still believe in the Torah and support Israel, but he didn't.
He went to a place that was for sure anti gun, pro gay, pro Palestinian, anti Israel, and thinks people like me are not the equal of me.
So I will be honest, I have mixed emotions.
After Parkland I think "go directly inside no matter what" is the new SOP, for better or worse. As much as "active shooter" is pretty much the same thing, the environments are usually all unique. The Wells Fargo one turned out well, this one didn't go so well.
I thought that was SOP post Columbine. What a chit situation for the LEO on scene, they can't sit outside while it's happening and if they go in, and bullets start flying in small places full of people, there's a high potential for non coms to get struck. They/we know they likely saved lives but that's a hell of a thing to deal with. Data point 9,283,728,01 why I couldn't do that job but appreciate someone is willing to.
RetroRevolver77
10-28-18, 09:22
deleted
I thought that was SOP post Columbine. What a chit situation for the LEO on scene, they can't sit outside while it's happening and if they go in, and bullets start flying in small places full of people, there's a high potential for non coms to get struck. They/we know they likely saved lives but that's a hell of a thing to deal with. Data point 9,283,728,01 why I couldn't do that job but appreciate someone is willing to.You are correct. First guy on-scene begins the task of neutralizing the threat, and others join in as they arrive. The days of waiting to posse up at the front door died with Columbine, and the kids who died waiting to be rescued.
I struggle with how I should feel.
I know these kinds of people, they ruled Israel for the first 30 or so years. Those of us that didn't come from European stock, were considered second class, stupid, dirty. Since I was born in the USA, many times this type of people thought I was one of them and they would open their mouths. you know how those people are, they are uneducated, dirty, they stink, we really aren't sure they are Jews.
Then time marches on, I get called Nazi and spit at, by Jews from the USA. These Jews call themselves progressive, egalitarian, they side with the Palestinians.
I pray every morning and in one of the Psalms we repeat, King David, tells us not even a blade of grass can grow in this world with out the Creator of everything being involved.
So yesterday, in an area full of many different types of synagogues, this piece of trash goes where he went. He could have gone to an Orthodox synagogue where people still believe in the Torah and support Israel, but he didn't.
He went to a place that was for sure anti gun, pro gay, pro Palestinian, anti Israel, and thinks people like me are not the equal of me.
So I will be honest, I have mixed emotions.I don't think the guy knew the difference in synagogues. There's two churches down the street from me. I know they're Christian but what denomination or how conservative/liberal I have no idea. Also, there may not be a Hasidic synagogue in the area. There isn't one here. In fact I've never seen a Hasidic Jew in my area....ever, despite having a big Jewish community.
As a none believing, none practicing Jew I don't over think it. To me they're just people. Don't care if they're pro Palestine, anti gun, lactose intolerant. If I start to dissect everyone's beliefs I'd probably find some reason to justify them being shot! So....their innocent people, doesn't matter who they voted for or what they believe in.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
I don't think the guy knew the difference in synagogues. There's two churches down the street from me. I know they're Christian but what denomination or how conservative/liberal I have no idea. Also, there may not be a Hasidic synagogue in the area. There isn't one here. In fact I've never seen a Hasidic Jew in my area....ever, despite having a big Jewish community.
As a none believing, none practicing Jew I don't over think it. To me they're just people. Don't care if they're pro Palestine, anti gun, lactose intolerant. If I start to dissect everyone's beliefs I'd probably find some reason to justify them being shot! So....their innocent people, doesn't matter who they voted for or what they believe in.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
His experiences and POV are going to be quite different than ours in that he comes from a place where those with differing views will walk into a crowded restaurant and blow themselves up. There's no live and let live in that scenario.
You are correct. First guy on-scene begins the task of neutralizing the threat, and others join in as they arrive. The days of waiting to posse up at the front door died with Columbine, and the kids who died waiting to be rescued.
Guess the guy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School didn't get the memo. What a cluster.
His experiences and POV are going to be quite different than ours in that he comes from a place where those with differing views will walk into a crowded restaurant and blow themselves up. There's no live and let live in that scenario.I understand that but we aren't talking about Palestinians or Muslims. Jews don't typically blow themselves up.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
There are a number of FBI agents here at M4C who post and lurk that share your interests, values, and observations on the...peculiarities...of their employer. The broad brush you paint them with is unjust, and not acceptable conduct.
I agree. Several years ago I met an FBI agent that had finished their training and was being transferred to their new home base. It's my understanding they make a list of 10 places they would like to go. 1 - 10 in descending order of desire. This agent picked Philadelphia. Told me people tried to say don't pick that place, it's crazy rough.
---She--- put it at the top of her list and got it.
All the FBI people I have met have been what seemed to me to be good family people and you can't blame them for being a government employee. Their wives and children sit at home while they travel and I expect often wonder if they will come home in some cases. Now is not the time for us to start slamming the FBI for what may be a few bad apples and a management issue.
The_War_Wagon
10-28-18, 11:59
You are correct. First guy on-scene begins the task of neutralizing the threat, and others join in as they arrive. The days of waiting to posse up at the front door died with Columbine, and the kids who died waiting to be rescued.
It still took 20 minutes for the first officer to arrive though. :( Life in the big city...
There is no excuse for 20 minute response in an active murdering in progress. Drop all the domestics, burglaries, speeders, doughnuts and get your asses there.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-28-18, 13:53
Is it twenty minutes until he surrenders or twenty minutes until he walks out and encounters an officer? Either way, it seems like he was done with the killing that was going to get done.
I seriously don't understand Jews without guns. I don't think that there is another Holocaust coming, or an organized threat to them- but there are enough wackos now and who knows where the attack on the 1% will go- to justify, if not require, better self-protection.
Actually “go inside no matter what” was the SOP after Columbine. And it should have been at Parkland...
It was, but wasn't always done, then Parkland pretty much removed any and all discretion.
And now the facts about the shooter, which will be ignored by the media, is that not only was he not a Trump supporter he was angry at Trump:
Mr. Bowers also extended his anger to the president, whom he accused of not going far enough to achieve the political goals Mr. Bowers wanted.
Days before the shooting, he wrote: “Trump is a globalist, not a nationalist. There is no #MAGA as long as there is a” — he inserted a slur for Jews — “infestation.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/us/robert-bowers-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter.html
Is it twenty minutes until he surrenders or twenty minutes until he walks out and encounters an officer? Either way, it seems like he was done with the killing that was going to get done.
I seriously don't understand Jews without guns. I don't think that there is another Holocaust coming, or an organized threat to them- but there are enough wackos now and who knows where the attack on the 1% will go- to justify, if not require, better self-protection.
We have Americans without guns. 242 years go by and people forget the other people want to oppress them.
Actually, I think people just stick their head in the samd. If you cant fight back, you dont have to think about it- just rolling over if violence comes your way is easy, and apparently what a lot of people choose.
BoringGuy45
10-28-18, 19:23
Is it twenty minutes until he surrenders or twenty minutes until he walks out and encounters an officer? Either way, it seems like he was done with the killing that was going to get done.
I seriously don't understand Jews without guns. I don't think that there is another Holocaust coming, or an organized threat to them- but there are enough wackos now and who knows where the attack on the 1% will go- to justify, if not require, better self-protection.
Except the Neo-Nazis...and the entire Muslim world.
There is no excuse for 20 minute response in an active murdering in progress. Drop all the domestics, burglaries, speeders, doughnuts and get your asses there.
I agree with you in that statement but, there are a lot of dynamics that go on with staffing the streets with cops. Right now my agency has a hard time trying to get people through the hiring process. You would not believe the number that don’t make it through the polygraph due to lying about drug use. They get told ahead of time that if they smoked weed and it was more than a year ago it’s acceptable now. They don’t believe us and say they never used marijuana and the polygraph says otherwise. We have been sponsoring Leo classes over the last few years and on the last class out of 300 applicants we hired 10.
Then you need to look at the current environment with law enforcement officers. We make a decision and the whole world Monday morning quarterbacks it.
The pay is another thing that is lacking. In Tennessee where we have been looking to relocate lineman’s starting hourly pay is around $30.00 an hour and the same jurisdictions pays the beginning LEO $18.00 an hour.
While I agree with Sam’s statement the reality is that until there are more officers working the road is going to suffer.
The thing that we (society) keeps overlooking is that what this guy did was evil. It has always existed on this earth and will always be. Cain killed Abel and there were 4 people on earth if I remember correctly from Sunday school.
The thing that we (society) keeps overlooking is that what this guy did was evil. It has always existed on this earth and will always be. Cain killed Abel and there were 4 people on earth if I remember correctly from Sunday school.
LOL!
I hear ya, but just try and strip away the political schmear and call an evil act evil instead of politically motivated, the left doesn't have a story. When was the last time a liberal could get through a conversation without tossing a Trump grenade or call their debate opponent a racist, to divert a clear loss?
MountainRaven
10-28-18, 20:27
Except the Neo-Nazis...and the entire Muslim world.
Not the entire Muslim world. A local mosque has put together money to help pay for anything that needs to be paid for, for the victims of the shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue and has offered to bolster and/or provide security for worship services at Tree of Life Synagogue.
Is it twenty minutes until he surrenders or twenty minutes until he walks out and encounters an officer? Either way, it seems like he was done with the killing that was going to get done.
I seriously don't understand Jews without guns. I don't think that there is another Holocaust coming, or an organized threat to them- but there are enough wackos now and who knows where the attack on the 1% will go- to justify, if not require, better self-protection.Always been that way. There are individuals who are different and they do occasionally form small groups of like minded people but as a whole Jews are pacifists. Jako Wellick had a similar question and Jordan Peterson gave a pretty good explanation/theory
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Not the entire Muslim world. A local mosque has put together money to help pay for anything that needs to be paid for, for the victims of the shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue and has offered to bolster and/or provide security for worship services at Tree of Life Synagogue.
That is actually refreshing to hear if true.
The pay is another thing that is lacking. In Tennessee where we have been looking to relocate lineman’s starting hourly pay is around $30.00 an hour and the same jurisdictions pays the beginning LEO $18.00 an hour.
While I agree that pay is lacking in many areas, you could have used a better example in terms of that comparison. My oldest grandson is a lineman. I would have rather he took a police job because I looked at the injury/death stats. If you use UCR figures, about 50% of the officers killed are killed in accidents rather than by felonious acts.
MountainRaven
10-28-18, 23:00
That is actually refreshing to hear if true.
I heard a leader of the Islamic community of Pittsburg say it on NPR this evening.
Here's an article about it on TIME's website: Link (http://time.com/5437229/muslim-organizations-benefit-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-victims/).
Highlights:
-Raised over $50,000 for Tree of Life Synagogue using a Muslim-centric crowdfunding website.
-Offered assistance with grocery shopping, protection, other needs.
One of the nonprofit Islamic groups involved is called CelebrateMercy and they organized sending 7700 letters of condolence from Muslims in 115 countries to the family of Ambassador Chris Stevens, raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the victims of the PODS in San Bernardino, and assisted in repairing vandalized Jewish cemeteries in St. Louis and Philly.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-29-18, 02:36
Three Glocks were recovered from Bowers after his attack, as well as an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle favored in other recent mass shootings in the US.
Is there some kind of actual, verifiable record that the AR15 is the best selling gun in the US? That is the reality. Favored? Not by the school shooter in Texas who used a shotgun.
CNN is running the headline that attacks on Jews are the first sign that country is facing 'extremism'. They so want to link this to Trump. If it weren't for that guys statements, they would be doing it. They are still trying to do it anyways.
LOL!
I hear ya, but just try and strip away the political schmear and call an evil act evil instead of politically motivated, the left doesn't have a story. When was the last time a liberal could get through a conversation without tossing a Trump grenade or call their debate opponent a racist, to divert a clear loss?
You are correct about the liberals throwing out the “Trump Grenade” when they start to loose the upper hand.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-29-18, 07:24
Is there some kind of actual, verifiable record that the AR15 is the best selling gun in the US? That is the reality. Favored? Not by the school shooter in Texas who used a shotgun.
CNN is running the headline that attacks on Jews are the first sign that country is facing 'extremism'. They so want to link this to Trump. If it weren't for that guys statements, they would be doing it. They are still trying to do it anyways.
I guess the last headline was explicit enough so CNN now has:
Anti-Semitism is often an indicator that extremism is gaining momentum in a society or being used as a political tool
I guess the last headline was explicit enough so CNN now has:
"Anti-Semitism is often an indicator that extremism is gaining momentum in a society or being used as a political tool"
So I guess this has been going on since the Clinton administration?!? There was a guy in California around 99 who shot up a Jewish daycare
And then there was one in 2014 in Kansas during the Obama administration.
And the guy who shot at the Jewish museum killing one guard I believe. Also Obama administration
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
I am not an American Jew!
I am an American, pro Constitution and Liberty.
I am a Jew that I guess in some way was influenced by the Holocaust and this drove me into a life of chasing people that want to murder my people. So I served in the most elite places to insure Jews were not murdered for the crime of being Jews.
Then we have these people that their grandfather was a Jew, but they are more Marxist than Jewish. They are the kind of people that want to take away our Constitutional rights to protect themselves, because they don't have the courage of real men to stand in the gap. They see me, and the guys that have served in the IDF or Border Police or other secret places as uneducated,fascist scum, that in some cases is made worse because our families never lived in Europe. People like those that were killed have got on planes and come to my country Israel and sided with my enemy and called me vile names and have tried to spit on me.
So if I look at the incident and wonder, why this liberal so called synagogue full of Marxist, was what this murdering piece of scum hit. When just down the block are many Orthodox synagogues full of Jews that keep Torah, love the Constitution, thank G-d they live in the USA, while also thanking G-D we have a Jewish state called Israel, and yes the majority of these Jews voted for Trump.
I am venting here in public, so all of you that aren't Jewish understand some of the facts behind the headlines.
Jews that don't own guns, are idiots and I will not cry for them if they become victims. G-D blessed us with the USA, a country like no other. A place where Jews have the right to buy guns like everyone else.
In Europe and the Arab countries for the past 2000, it was against the law for Jews to arm themselves for the vast majority of time and places.
Having said all this, I am what I am a retired Lt.Col., that is still fighting for the survival of my people and both my countries. I took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. I also have a blood oath to defend my people, even if sometimes the enemy are so called Jews.
I pray that all Jews will return to Torah, and leave the Marxist democratic party behind. This will insure a long term Jewish community in the USA.
RetroRevolver77
10-29-18, 08:59
deleted
Jews in Pittsburgh say Trump is NOT WELCOME to visit the synagogue where 11 people were shot and killed by anti-Semite until President denounces white nationalism.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6327535/Pittsburgh-Jewish-leaders-say-Trump-NOT-WELCOME-visit-synagogue-11-people-killed.html
Some leftist shot up a leftist place of worship but it's somehow the President's fault now.
Because no matter what they see to the contrary, he was a die hard Trump supporter as far as they're concerned and it makes it much easier to find something to blame vs random nut bag. Maybe send his Jewish son in law and daughter?
RetroRevolver77
10-29-18, 09:07
deleted
The shooter wasn't a die hard Trump supporter, he said Trump was a globalist, didn't vote for him and was an admitted National Socialist.
Hence my comment. See also what I posted #81
Trump can come up with a cure for cancer and the left will riot over it.
Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
RetroRevolver77
10-29-18, 13:21
deleted
Well, it seems the first group of Jewish people claiming to represent the Synagogue whom stated Trump wasn't welcome- didn't actually represent the Synagogue.
I hate leftists, they tried to spin this that Trump wasn't welcome, that this is Trump's fault and now they are caught in a lie.
Rabbi Jeffrey Myers: “The President of the United States is always welcome. I am a citizen, he is my president,” Myers declared. “He is always welcome.”
https://www.weaselzippers.us/401061-tree-of-life-synagogue-rabbi-says-trump-is-his-president-and-is-always-welcome-at-synagogue/
More info...
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/29/cnn-rabbi-blame-trump-pittsburgh-shooting/
Some Jewish pubs get it at least:
Op-Ed: TWO YEARS of Democrats Calling For Assassinations And Hate – Here Are The Facts
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1611896/op-ed-for-two-years-democrats-call-for-assassinations-and-hate-here-are-the-facts.html?fbclid=IwAR3arhD5xBptl00pfNcZwXM4U2B5lvmiNLLCwMi9bxydhsT3Nbx1u_StR7M
The_War_Wagon
10-29-18, 14:39
Jews in Pittsburgh say Trump is NOT WELCOME to visit the synagogue where 11 people were shot and killed by anti-Semite until President denounces white nationalism.
Pittsburgh is UNIONIZED LIBTARD FIRST.
It's Jewish/Catholic/Presbyterian/Steeler/Pirate/Penguin/Pitt/Penn St./Irish/Italian/German/Polish/Slovak/etc., SECOND. :help:
There's a REASON Pittsburgh & Philthadelphia are called "the 2 blue ANCHORS" of PA - an OTHERWISE red state.
The Mayor said he wants to arm all the citizens, then in two years if the murder rate goes up he wants all teh 2A politicians in jail. then he want's all guns gone and in two years if the rate goes up, he will go to jail.
I think that will take too long. My solution is put him in jail now. Ask that all people refrain from shooting each other. However if some one does shoot someone else they have to account for Party affiliation. At the end of two years he stays in jail for life if his party has a higher number of shooters. .... AND another Liberal starts their two year stint. Someone like Chuck Schumer for instance. We will then just keep repeating that process.
I think a good beginning pool would him first then Schumer, Feinstein, Murkowski in the event the Rs actually lost one, Hillary hey she wants to be in politics, Cuomo, Pelosi... that's a good 10 years worth to start.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-29-18, 16:56
The Mayor said he wants to arm all the citizens, then in two years if the murder rate goes up he wants all teh 2A politicians in jail. then he want's all guns gone and in two years if the rate goes up, he will go to jail.
I think that will take too long. My solution is put him in jail now. Ask that all people refrain from shooting each other. However if some one does shoot someone else they have to account for Party affiliation. At the end of two years he stays in jail for life if his party has a higher number of shooters. .... AND another Liberal starts their two year stint. Someone like Chuck Schumer for instance. We will then just keep repeating that process.
I think a good beginning pool would him first then Schumer, Feinstein, Murkowski in the event the Rs actually lost one, Hillary hey she wants to be in politics, Cuomo, Pelosi... that's a good 10 years worth to start.
Got a source for this?
Got a source for this?
Saw it this morning on news. Probably 6 or 12. I'll see if I can find it.
Go to 3:00 --- https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/popculture/pittsburgh-mayor-bill-peduto-rails-against-hate-speech-idea-of-armed-guards/vp-BBP3N2v
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-29-18, 18:18
Saw it this morning on news. Probably 6 or 12. I'll see if I can find it.
Go to 3:00 --- https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/popculture/pittsburgh-mayor-bill-peduto-rails-against-hate-speech-idea-of-armed-guards/vp-BBP3N2v
That is the same stupidity that leads my mom to not lock her doors. "I don't want to live in a world where I need to lock my doors." Luckily, she remarried to a Navy vet who stopped that stupidity, fast.
I love that the argument is that "everyone" needs to armed. In their twisted logic, its unarmed or everyone armed. What a false dichotomy and straw man.
That guy is an embarrassment to Pittsburgh, men in particular and thinking humans in general. I don't give crap what he does, or if they hand out guns willy-nilly. I have the RIGHT to defend myself. His public policy experiment has no bearing on that right.
That is the same stupidity that leads my mom to not lock her doors. "I don't want to live in a world where I need to lock my doors."
I used to have a friend that had a saying. "You ought to be able / have a right to do stupid things." He's dead now. Motorcycle + no helmet. His head was hard but not that hard.
BoringGuy45
10-29-18, 22:06
The Mayor said he wants to arm all the citizens, then in two years if the murder rate goes up he wants all the 2A politicians in jail.
My response to him...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
The Mayor said he wants to arm all the citizens, then in two years if the murder rate goes up he wants all teh 2A politicians in jail. then he want's all guns gone and in two years if the rate goes up, he will go to jail.
I think that will take too long. My solution is put him in jail now. Ask that all people refrain from shooting each other. However if some one does shoot someone else they have to account for Party affiliation. At the end of two years he stays in jail for life if his party has a higher number of shooters. .... AND another Liberal starts their two year stint. Someone like Chuck Schumer for instance. We will then just keep repeating that process.
I think a good beginning pool would him first then Schumer, Feinstein, Murkowski in the event the Rs actually lost one, Hillary hey she wants to be in politics, Cuomo, Pelosi... that's a good 10 years worth to start.Like this?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-mcdonalds-gunman-killed-by-armed-dad-who-is-injured-in-shootout.amp
"A brave dad armed with a pistol stopped what could have been a mass shooting Saturday inside an Alabama McDonald's when he took down a masked gunman who had stormed in and opened fire."
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
I have been in the field of keeping track of all types of scum that want to murder my people for being Jewish, for my whole adult life. Got to have intel, to be able to go get them.
I am sorry to inform you that we Jews have our own version of Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. They are called J street and the ADL. To get donations they see brown shirts behind ever bush. Please ignore them
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/271781/media-misreports-anti-israel-sex-club-dancers-daniel-greenfield
Like lamb to rupture
Op-ed: progressive US Jews would rather live in a world where Israel is an ideal rather than a country that fights terrorism, while Israeli ultra-Orthodox prefer seculars to scholars who claim to be Jews; the government is the only one who can heal the divide— to determine a new status quo within the Jewish state and to acknowledge we are not alone in the Jewish world.
Yoaz Hendel|Published: 10.31.18 , 00:23
The Jewish people are being torn apart over the Pittsburgh shooting. It allows us a peek into the biggest fracture we have known since the divergence between the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel. We are being led to this disaster by the nose, by irresponsible politicos. We are being led to this disaster, but no one is leading.
On Monday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tweeted about being one nation, and said that Jews in Pittsburgh were killed because they are Jews.
This was a good response for the Chief Rabbi’s remarks, who expressed his condolences, but had a hard time designating the Conservative Jewish congregation as a 'synagogue.'
One of the weakest accusations, published in Haaretz Newspaper, was that Education Minister Naftali Bennett and the Israeli right are closer to the murderer than the victims. Beyond the stupidity of this claim and the horrible timing, it also shows complete ignorance when it comes to understanding Israeli society.
Bennett, who grew up in a conservative family, and Netanyahu, who spent most of his time in the US around conservative and secular communities, are closer to those communities than any secular Israeli. They understand it, speak its language and know its codes of speech and silence.
The so called religionization that the secular forum keeps warning us about is the daily lifestyle of these American Jewish communities, as are the Jewish texts, customs and the Jewish educational system.
Zionist Israel led by Netanyahu is closer to Conservative and Reform communities than to ultra-Orthodox communities. So are the lifestyles of most ministers and most Israelis.
We are being led to an absurd place: A rift that has nothing to do with our wishes and belief system, but with plain incompetence.
The split between Israel and US Jewry has two leading forces. There are two groups that have difficulty with nationalism—and thus with practical Zionism that characterizes Israel.
The progressive American Jews would rather live in a world where Israel is an ideal rather than a country that fights terror organizations and Gaza protesters. They prefer the notion of Tikun Olam to the reality of Israel’s Iron Dome. They prefer talks of conflict resolution to the daily management of a bloody conflict, because there is no other way.
The second group is the Israeli ultra-Orthodox community, who cannot handle the 70 faces of the Torah or any interpretation that isn’t the Shulchan Aruch.
They prefer "captured infants” (Tinok shenishba—Jews who sin unknowingly as a result of being raised without Judaism practices) and seculars who can live with the ultra-Orthodox seeing them as an “empty wagon”—while Orthodox carry the entire historic Jewish load.
And so, beyond the feeling of partnership, the Pittsburgh shooting caused some awkward reactions regarding the synagogue and the community that suffered.
The two groups I mentioned cannot recognize reality: they live in a world of religious and theoretic ideas, outside reality. The elected government in the Jewish state was supposed to put things in order; a Jewish state— for all Jews, just like Netanyahu said.
It is allowed and even necessary, to argue with US Jewry about their political stance and their criticism towards Israel. If they are interested in determining Israeli policy, they are welcome to leave the luxuries of the US and make Aliyah. Here they can vote and make a difference.
However, what we cannot do is exclude their Jewish identity and their connection to the holy places and symbols, and only allow one Jewish movement to make political moves.
The ultra-Orthodox parties are unable to be that responsible. It’s exactly like the recurring crisis about public work on Shabbat—everyone knows that crucial work happens on Shabbat, but when it comes out in the media they are left with no choice but to threaten and create a political crisis.
This is why the government is the only one who can limit the ultra-Orthodox involvement in Jewish politics, and the only one who can heal the divide— to determine a new status quo within the Jewish state and to acknowledge we are not alone in the Jewish world.
Forget the self-hate debate about the motives of the Nazi who murdered Jews in Pittsburgh. Arabs who murder Jews and Nazis who murder Jews are the same enemy.
The_War_Wagon
10-30-18, 22:26
I'm Lutheran (LCMS). In 1875, there were 148 Lutheran DENOMINATIONS in America. That had merged down to about the 3 biggest, and a half-dozen others of nominal size by the late 1980's. But the biggest 'Lutheran (in name only :rolleyes: )' church recently split, and those smaller Lutheran bodies are growing in size & number. Basically, we'd rather argue, than eat when we're hungry. :sarcastic:
The Jewish people are being torn apart over the Pittsburgh shooting. It allows us a peek into the biggest fracture we have known since the divergence between the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel. We are being led to this disaster by the nose, by irresponsible politicos. We are being led to this disaster, but no one is leading.
In the immortal words of our first black President - "Ah feel... yer pain..."
Apparently the Philadelphia office of ATF says shooter purchased the three .357 Glock pistols and the AR15 legally, in addition shooter also supposedly had a pistol permit (I assume that’s state CCW but article didn’t specify). That was in a NYT article from earlier today iirc.
Apparently the Philadelphia office of ATF says shooter purchased the three .357 Glock pistols and the AR15 legally, in addition shooter also supposedly had a pistol permit (I assume that’s state CCW but article didn’t specify). That was in a NYT article from earlier today iirc.Pa is shall issues so as long as you can pass a background check you're good. Some townships are backed up and mail them out within a week or so others hand it to you 5 min after handing in the application.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Except for Philadelphia though isn’t it? For some reason I thought they did not issue permits in the City itself. Or at least it was very difficult to get one.
Pa is shall issues so as long as you can pass a background check you're good. Some townships are backed up and mail them out within a week or so others hand it to you 5 min after handing in the application.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Except for Philadelphia though isn’t it? For some reason I thought they did not issue permits in the City itself. Or at least it was very difficult to get one.They do. ALL of Pa issues....just that before it use to take forever. Also they liked to just deny based on nothing, figuring you wouldn't appeal.
When people appealed they'd issue right away. When my buddy applied it took 6 months and he was denied. They issued him one at his appeal
But they've since passed laws after a class action lawsuit stating it can't take more than a month....I believe. Along with other stuff. Used to have the notes somewhere.
Found it!
Not to disclose LTCF applicant information either electronically or in-person;
Annual training of the Philadelphia Police Department and Philadelphia License and Inspection Board of Review on the confidentiality of LTCF applicant information;
Customer service training for the Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit;
Posting a copy of the*LTCF Application Notice*on its website and where LTCF applications and appeals can be submitted or obtained, as well as, providing a copy to anyone who has his/her LTCF denied or revoked;
The City will not require references on the LTCF application and will not contact any references listed on the LTCF application;
The City will not require lawful immigrants or US Citizens with a US Passport to provide naturalization papers;
The City will not require any applicant to disclose whether he/she owns a firearm during the LTCF application process;
The City will not deny an application because the applicant answered “no” to any question regarding whether the applicant had been charged/convicted of any crime where the applicant received a pardon or expungement from the charge or conviction;
The City will process all LTCF applications within 45 calendar days;
The City will remit $15.00 to any applicant who is denied within 20 days;
The City will not require LTCF applicants or holders to disclose to law enforcement that they have an LTCF, that they are carrying a firearm or that they have a firearm in the vehicle; and
The City will not confiscate an LTCF or firearm, unless there is probable cause that the LTCF or firearm is evidence of a crime. In the event an LTCF or firearm is confiscated, the officer must immediately provide a property receipt, which shall include the pertinent information
http://blog.princelaw.com/2014/07/22/settlement-in-philadelphia-class-action-lawsuit-regarding-disclosure-of-confidential-ltcf-information/
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
The_War_Wagon
10-31-18, 14:10
PA is also an open carry state (without permit), EXCEPT Philthadelphia - where you MUST have the LTCF to carry openly. And THEN you'll get hassled and arrested anyways.
Half the bandwidth used at PAFOA is full of THOSE nightmare stories.
RetroRevolver77
10-31-18, 14:53
deleted
Here's what I don't get. Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem then formally recognized Jerusalem to be the rightful capital of Israel despite all the other nations being against it. Even had Nikki Haley at the UN declaring the same. Trump's own favorite kid married a Jewish man and he has grandchildren that are Jewish. Yet somehow the media ignores the fact that the shooter lambasted Trump, calling him a globalist, was against Trump, and was essentially a left wing socialist. Yet somehow they blame Trump over this? I don't understand that.
Experience has taught me you can not apply logic to members of the media. They are incapable of following it. Been having fun since yesterday calling out all "the Constitution clearly says" types on why it applies to the immigration debate lately but not gun rights. I swear I literally heard gears locking up with our evening anchor.
RetroRevolver77
10-31-18, 15:01
deleted
They can't have it both ways.
They're not in touch with reality tho. The ones I work with still think Hillary actually won the election but Russia rigged the results, despite no evidence Trump is guilty of collusion, "full semi-automatic" is a real thing, and that somehow firing a .223 from an AR-15 will cause the target to explode. "News" is more about feels and spin than those pesky "facts" anymore.
It was proudly declared on the ever more irritating NPR during lunch, that in Pittsburgh Trump was presented a letter with 16000 signatures that declared him unwelcome in "Their" city. So laughably petty and childish.
I momentarily endulged myself with a fanciful delusion of a Siege being layed on Pittsburgh for allowing such insolence to run amok.
I should read less history, its full of terrible ideas lol.
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
Here's what I don't get. Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem then formally recognized Jerusalem to be the rightful capital of Israel despite all the other nations being against it. Even had Nikki Haley at the UN declaring the same. Trump's own favorite kid married a Jewish man and he has grandchildren that are Jewish. Yet somehow the media ignores the fact that the shooter lambasted Trump, calling him a globalist, was against Trump, and was essentially a left wing socialist. Yet somehow they blame Trump over this? I don't understand that.
in my best lefty screech
shut you you racist homophobic bigot womanizer nazi aaaaahhhhh YOUR RACIST TRUMP is a racist your all racist aaaahhhhhhhh
they cant see everything they are ?
some of the most stupid questions about the islands came from some of the most so called intelligent people and it would just make me wonder how does someone so stupid get to the job and money they do ?
in some ways kinda glad I am not there now cause not sure I could take it anymore :)
To deflect attention from your leftist activities meant to destroy the United States, accuse the other side of being everything your are and everything you are doing.
Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
President Trump is Adolf Hitler!
Of course Hitler had a daughter covert to Orthodox Judaism and gave old Adolf Jewish grand kids.
Of course Hitler would of had the german embassy move from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem if we had a state.
Of course Hitler would have torn up a deal that 100% assured the Iranians of getting the bomb. Which they would have used on Israel killing 6,000,000 or so Jews.
I am so tired of the left, and leftist Jews I hate more them than Palestinians. Palestinians who have murdered people in my family and friends are slightly higher than the leftist Jews that side with them. Of course even dear old Adolf and his SS had some Jews that worked with them to murder other Jews. Like Soros.
I am so tired of the left, and leftist Jews I hate more them than Palestinians. Palestinians who have murdered people in my family and friends are slightly higher than the leftist Jews that side with them. Of course even dear old Adolf and his SS had some Jews that worked with them to murder other Jews. Like Soros.
You know how sometimes people have really shitty people in their family that do incredibly horrific things to their own family members. Well that especially applies to communities, any community.
This is why I try not to define myself according to arbitrary conditions of birth. I fully understand when other people choose to view you as a "group" you often have no choice but to band together and defend yourself as a "group", but all things considered I'd rather not be defined by the collective definition of any "group." Obviously this becomes even more complicated when religions / political beliefs are involved.
Just accept that sometimes you have no more genuine commonality with some people than coincidental conditions of birth. Take the good for the good and everyone else can effin walk on, you owe them nothing and you should expect even less in return.
You know how sometimes people have really shitty people in their family that do incredibly horrific things to their own family members. Well that especially applies to communities, any community.
This is why I try not to define myself according to arbitrary conditions of birth. I fully understand when other people choose to view you as a "group" you often have no choice but to band together and defend yourself as a "group", but all things considered I'd rather not be defined by the collective definition of any "group." Obviously this becomes even more complicated when religions / political beliefs are involved.
Just accept that sometimes you have no more genuine commonality with some people than coincidental conditions of birth. Take the good for the good and everyone else can effin walk on, you owe them nothing and you should expect even less in return.
I'm writing you in on my ballot for governor later this month.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.