Federal Fusion vs Federal and Winchester soft point ammo?

[NYH1]

Looking at ammo that I either already have or is readily available in my area, can't order ammo online anymore in New Yorkistan.

Our house is a ranch style (everything on one floor) that's fairly open inside and there aren't other house close by. Our carbines are M4's with 16 inch, 1 in 7 twist barrels.

I've seen Federal Fusions (non-MSR) mentioned as being good for home defense when barrier's may be likely. When barrier's are unlikely, are they still good for HD?

Years ago I saw where Winchester 64gr. Power Points (exposed lead tip soft points) were supposed to be good when barrier's were unlikely. Is this still true today?

I also have and can readily get Federal 55gr and 64 gr. Power Shok, they're similar to the Winchester Power Points and I assume they work the same.

Any insight into these rounds would be appreciated.

Thanks, NYH1.

[ALCOAR]

I'm not sure there is a better all around performing round for the price than Fusion, and if there is I haven't found one yet. The terminal aspects of Fusion are well documented, but it's unusually accurate nature (for barrier blind loads) is far less documented, and discussed. It's very accurate especially considering the projectile it's using. Out of all the true HD ammos I charted on paper, it's certainly the most accurate out to 100yds.

Anything that is good with regards to being barrier blind will be effective on both blind, and unobstructed targets.


To give you an idea how consistent, how much expansion, and those effects on an unobstructed medium (in this case, a DIY bullet water tank was used). I hope my old photobucket pics show up for you....if not I'll try and post them using imgur.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06606.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06633.jpg

The two best HD rounds that are commonly found at local big box stores I've found are 1. Fusion 2. Barnes VOR-TX TSX 55gr.


EDIT: Compare the unobstructed recovered rounds with the one recovered after a sheet rock test I performed....(these tests are taken from a much longer thread I OP'd some time ago)

Sheetrock/wall test...Fusion 62gr.....25yds....MRP CQB 10.5"

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC08358-1.jpg

For comparative purposes(see first post in the OP...fusion into bare jugs @ 25yds), hopefully you'll note that the fusion remained fully intact after passing through the barrier, where it then exhibited excellent early upset in the first and second jugs, almost fully expanding by the time it reached the third jug.........whereby it began to rapidly yaw upwards and to the right penetrating another half jug completely and landing right outside of it.

Short and simple...the wall made about 10% of the bullet not fully expand...thus making it actually drive deeper, and yawing as it ended it's travel.

This was at least for myself very reassuring to see, and exactly how I had expected this to fusion to perform when encountering a light barrier such as a wall. Sample of one...fwiw.

Before:

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC08332-1.jpg

After:

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC08337-1.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC08340-1.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC08367-1.jpg

[flenna]

Looking at ammo that I either already have or is readily available in my area, can't order ammo online anymore in New Yorkistan.

Our house is a ranch style (everything on one floor) that's fairly open inside and there aren't other house close by. Our carbines are M4's with 16 inch, 1 in 7 twist barrels.

I've seen Federal Fusions (non-MSR) mentioned as being good for home defense when barrier's may be likely. When barrier's are unlikely, are they still good for HD?

Years ago I saw where Winchester 64gr. Power Points (exposed lead tip soft points) were supposed to be good when barrier's were unlikely. Is this still true today?

I also have and can readily get Federal 55gr and 64 gr. Power Shok, they're similar to the Winchester Power Points and I assume they work the same.

Any insight into these rounds would be appreciated.

Thanks, NYH1.

I wouldn’t hesitate to use any of those mentioned for HD. All have fantastic terminal ballistics for self defense.

[NYH1]

Cool. Thanks guys!

NYH1.

[Pappabear]

I have found Fusion in 308 to be surprisingly accurate as well. Very good prices and shot very well.

PB

[MegademiC]

Yes fusion is good even without barriers.
MSR and non-MSR perform the same.
Keep in mind a “barrier” can include things like arms, hands, magazines in a chest rig, an abortion of twisted metal your wife calls a “centerpiece”, etc.

[NYH1]

Yes fusion is good even without barriers.
MSR and non-MSR perform the same.
Keep in mind a “barrier” can include things like arms, hands, magazines in a chest rig, an abortion of twisted metal your wife calls a “centerpiece”, etc.
I think I'll go with the Fusion for everything you just mentioned.

Thanks, NYH1.

[NYH1]

I have found Fusion in 308 to be surprisingly accurate as well. Very good prices and shot very well.

PB
I should probably give them a try in my 280 Rem. and 30-06.

NYH1.

[ALCOAR]

The .308 Fusion is some real nasty stuff :cool:

.308

165gr. Fusion / 150gr. TTSX


VS.


.223

62gr. Fusion / 55gr. TSX FB


http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06356.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06365.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06367.jpg

I think I would take it over the almost twice as expensive TTSX loading as like PB eluded to, my MWS shoots the Fusion around 1.5MOA, whereas the TTSX was well outside of 2 MOA.

[Vegasshooter]

The Federal Fusion is almost exactly the same bullet as the Speer Gold Dot. I have used the Speer Gold Dot in .223 and seen it hit FAR above its weight class on hogs. BIG hogs.....like 350-400# hogs. One shot in the neck and it DROPPED. No tracking, nothing. I can’t tell you how impressed I was with it. That was a 75gr Speer GD. That is one of our duty rounds for our SPR’s at work. It is THE best overall round I’ve used. We tested MANY, many rounds before we decided on the GD. Accounting for accuracy, terminal performance, reliability, and how well it did on all the FBI tests, it’s GD for us. If you can’t get that, I would have ZERO issue carrying Federal Fusion.

[WickedWillis]

The Federal Fusion is almost exactly the same bullet as the Speer Gold Dot. I have used the Speer Gold Dot in .223 and seen it hit FAR above its weight class on hogs. BIG hogs.....like 350-400# hogs. One shot in the neck and it DROPPED. No tracking, nothing. I can’t tell you how impressed I was with it. That was a 75gr Speer GD. That is one of our duty rounds for our SPR’s at work. It is THE best overall round I’ve used. We tested MANY, many rounds before we decided on the GD. Accounting for accuracy, terminal performance, reliability, and how well it did on all the FBI tests, it’s GD for us. If you can’t get that, I would have ZERO issue carrying Federal Fusion.

Great to hear that. I just bought a few boxes today to use as Coyote and Wolf rounds. With also the possibility of use as a two legged predator defense round as well. Sounds like I might have done alright. I was very limited in what my local stores had on shelves.

[Vegasshooter]

You should live it. It’s deceviingly accurate. The BC catches up to it at about 409yds, but I can hit out to 800yds with my KAC LPR wearing my NF ATACR 1-8.

[MegademiC]

Regarding accuracy, my centurion CL barrel and fusion combo (rds and 4x) has produced a couple 1.3"-1.4" 10-shot groups. Lot-to-lot consistency seems to be there, along with good accuracy. Most of the "match" ammo I've tried didnt group as well.

[ABNAK]

The Federal Fusion is almost exactly the same bullet as the Speer Gold Dot. I have used the Speer Gold Dot in .223 and seen it hit FAR above its weight class on hogs. BIG hogs.....like 350-400# hogs. One shot in the neck and it DROPPED. No tracking, nothing. I can’t tell you how impressed I was with it. That was a 75gr Speer GD. That is one of our duty rounds for our SPR’s at work. It is THE best overall round I’ve used. We tested MANY, many rounds before we decided on the GD. Accounting for accuracy, terminal performance, reliability, and how well it did on all the FBI tests, it’s GD for us. If you can’t get that, I would have ZERO issue carrying Federal Fusion.

I have a couple hundred rounds of the 64gr Gold Dot (bought it cheap a while back from PSA). From everything I have read, other than it being .223 as opposed to 5.56NATO, it is both accurate and quite impressive terminal ballistics-wise. Molon had a good write-up on them a few years ago on here.

My go-to rounds are Mk318, the "FBI load" XM556SBCT3, Black Hills 70gr GMX 5.56mm, and the aforementioned 64gr Gold Dots. All AR's are zeroed using Mk318 (I have the most of that), but I have/will check POI with the others before use.

[hotrodder636]

I have some MK318. I just recently ordered some Fusion 62 grain and have my eye out for some Gold Dot 64 grains. These mixed with my MK262 (and similar handloads) should have me pretty well set.

[RandomUser404]

Just ordered some Gold Dots from Targetsportsusa. They have a bunch in stock. Same with Bonefrog and Venturamunitions.

I can vouch for and have ordered from all of then

[NYH1]

We shot some of the Fusions last week. They shot pretty good. Carbines are loaded with them now.

NYH1.

[indianalex01]

The Federal Fusion is almost exactly the same bullet as the Speer Gold Dot. I have used the Speer Gold Dot in .223 and seen it hit FAR above its weight class on hogs. BIG hogs.....like 350-400# hogs. One shot in the neck and it DROPPED. No tracking, nothing. I can’t tell you how impressed I was with it. That was a 75gr Speer GD. That is one of our duty rounds for our SPR’s at work. It is THE best overall round I’ve used. We tested MANY, many rounds before we decided on the GD. Accounting for accuracy, terminal performance, reliability, and how well it did on all the FBI tests, it’s GD for us. If you can’t get that, I would have ZERO issue carrying Federal Fusion.

It’s actually the same bullet.


I have some MK318. I just recently ordered some Fusion 62 grain and have my eye out for some Gold Dot 64 grains. These mixed with my MK262 (and similar handloads) should have me pretty well set.

Gold Dot 64gn is no longer made. 55, 62, 75.

[Ned Christiansen]

Fusion has only recently wandered onto my radar. I have a bolt gun in 7.62X39 that I felt ought to have some decent accuracy potential but it will never be realized with fodder-grade stuff, so over some months I collected various higher-end ammo types. I've been through this cycle a few times and not surprisingly found them much more accurate. Recently I tried Fusion in 7.62X39 and finally got to 1MOA Wonderland with the gun. The previous best grouper was Lapua.... I think the Lapua 7.62X39 is probably the very best in FMJ but Fusion beat the Lapua in group size and it is a much more versatile bullet..... not to mention, the Fusion is actually much less expensive than Lapua FMJ. Not saying I will get 1MOA with Fusion every time but I shot enough of it to know it was not a fluke.

I did the exact same thing with a Saginaw Steering Gear M1 Carbine..... pretty mediocre accuracy with a variety of FMJ ammo. I really thought the gun should do better, so to try and see if it was the gun or the ammo I got some non-fodder-grade stuff to include Fusion and Hornady Critical Defense. Both were better but the Fusion was markedly better, and again, a bullet with broader applications. Considerably more expensive, of course.

All of which offers you, OP, nuthin' I guess, since I have no experience with it in .223 but I'm ordering some right away (I have gel-tested Gold Dot though). But accuracy-wise in these other calibers it's been good for me.