View Full Version : Golden Saber
Jammer Six
11-01-18, 14:16
What happened to Golden Saber? It used to be what Springfield recommended for their Milspecs. Talking to them today, now they recommend Federal Ball.
What happened to Golden Saber? It used to be what Springfield recommended for their Milspecs. Talking to them today, now they recommend Federal Ball.
Just outdated tech that apparently was never redesigned to catch up to modern bullet tech. I don't know if Remington came out with something on par with modern rnds made by other companies such as Federal, etc.
Jammer Six
11-01-18, 15:16
Leads to the question what are folks carrying in 1911 mil specs.
It is still listed on Remington's website.
https://www.remington.com/ammunition/handgun/golden-saber-black-belt
Try google or ammo seek
Golden Saber .45 ACP is listed in stock at Lucky Gunner and Sportsman`s Guide.
It`s supposed to be a pretty solid round. FBI used to issue it for the SWAT/ HRT 1911's if I recall correctly. I've only used the .357 magnum 125 grain load. It was pretty effective on a large breed dog (pitbull) with a body shot.
I don't know about low tech, because .45 hollow point is going to punch a big hole.
I guess that I`m old school because I carry Federal Hydro Shok rounds in my .45 pistols.
Like every erstwhile wunderslug, it was a death ray, until this month's new flavor came out, at which time it became fit only for defense against chipmunks.
Does it matter what SA recommends? Has anyone ever asked a manufacturer what they recommend? Has anyone asked what Beretta, Sig, HK, Glock recommends?
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It is still listed on Remington's website.
https://www.remington.com/ammunition/handgun/golden-saber-black-belt
Try google or ammo seek
Golden Saber .45 ACP is listed in stock at Lucky Gunner and Sportsman`s Guide.
It`s supposed to be a pretty solid round. FBI used to issue it for the SWAT/ HRT 1911's if I recall correctly. I've only used the .357 magnum 125 grain load. It was pretty effective on a large breed dog (pitbull) with a body shot.
I don't know about low tech, because .45 hollow point is going to punch a big hole.
I guess that I`m old school because I carry Federal Hydro Shok rounds in my .45 pistols.
The terminal ballistics between modern JHP in typical duty loads is minimal which is why 9mm has made the comeback it has. Bullet tech has progressed a great deal even since Saber and Hydro Shok were developed. If one has a 1911 so picky it will only run Sabers and FMJ, I wouldn't ever own one personally. My 1911s ran well on just about everything I fed them within reason, and I ccwed Gold Dots when I ccwd 1911s. My mil spec Colt ran great also. Your mileage may vary.
Jammer Six
11-01-18, 18:38
Does it matter what SA recommends? Has anyone ever asked a manufacturer what they recommend? Has anyone asked what Beretta, Sig, HK, Glock recommends?
I ask because if it doesn't run, I'm going to ask them to fix their gun.
Your mileage may vary.
Yeah. It does.
I ask because if it doesn't run, I'm going to ask them to fix their gun.There's a dozen other options. You don't even know why they recommend it! Could be lawyer talk for all you know.
What if it doesn't work with Golden Sabers but works with Gold Dots or HST?
This is the only time I ever heard of someone asking a modern manufacturer what they recommend.
Honestly, I don't think anyone here carries millspec 1911s.
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Yeah. It does.
So you're already having issues with the gun?
Jammer Six
11-01-18, 20:26
Honestly, I don't think anyone here carries millspec 1911s.
Well, if I have to fight, I can only hope that my opponent is armed with a Glock.
But that almost seems like it's too much to ask for.
So you're already having issues with the gun?
Yeah, but I wouldn't put it quite that way. I bought it new in 1990, and I used to compete with it. It has tens of thousands of rounds through it, mostly either LRN or LSWC. It's had a crack in the firing pin stop since the turn of the century, and I've been watching it, curious to see if it is ever going to actually break or start clocking.
Well, if I have to fight, I can only hope that my opponent is armed with a Glock.
But that almost seems like it's too much to ask for.?
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Yeah, but I wouldn't put it quite that way. I bought it new in 1990, and I used to compete with it. It has tens of thousands of rounds through it, mostly either LRN or LSWC. It's had a crack in the firing pin stop since the turn of the century, and I've been watching it, curious to see if it is ever going to actually break or start clocking.
Then I'm more confused by your OP Q.
What happened to Golden Saber? It used to be what Springfield recommended for their Milspecs. Talking to them today, now they recommend Federal Ball.
They'd recommend ball because your pistol (or pretty much any pistol) is less likely to choke on it. That doesn't at all mean that ball is the best to use for defensive purposes. If you're just plinking or target shooting any quality ball should work just fine. If you're using the pistol for defensive purposes, then you need to thoroughly test fire whatever you decide to use regardless of what might be recommended. Remember, you're betting your life on it.
BTW, all lives matter. Don't blame us when the leftist criminal hiding gun grabbers you're supporting decide that you can't be trusted to possess your 1911.
Golden saber is on the 9mm and 40 recommended lists.
It fell out of favor, iirc due to more flash over hst/golddot/winchester loads.
Oddly enough GoldSaber is not on the 45 list, but I havent seen why explained. Apparently it doesnt meet the fbi testing protocols.
Another vote for pick a loads off the list and find one that works reliably.
Golden saber is on the 9mm and 40 recommended lists.
It fell out of favor, iirc due to more flash over hst/golddot/winchester loads.
Oddly enough GoldSaber is not on the 45 list, but I havent seen why explained. Apparently it doesnt meet the fbi testing protocols.
Another vote for pick a loads off the list and find one that works reliably.
Does the original GS meet the current FBI protocols? Have they updated it? I have not kept track on that one. Back in the day, I recall GS had a poor rep for consistency in terminal ballistics compared to others of the time. Maybe my memory is faulty there.
BuzzinSATX
11-02-18, 20:15
Well, if I have to fight, I can only hope that my opponent is armed with a Glock.
But that almost seems like it's too much to ask for.
You're carrying a 1911 with issues and thinking your best chance of survival, should you get into a gun fight, is to hope for your opponent to have a Glock. Yeah, that's why two out of three cops carry them...
For the record, the issue with Rem Golden Sabers was a time back when that original list by Dr. Roberts came out. There were some issues with the bullets core separating from their jacket upon expansion, but that's been corrected with the current bonded bullet design. Even then, with the separation, the core portion of the projectiles were still penetrating 12+ inches in the tests...nothing you'd want to be shot with. There wasn't an issue with the bullets jamming or causing any malfunctions.
Still, the Golden Sabers on the market today have some pretty good write-ups. Here's a Rem video on the new design: http://www.remington.com/country/videos/5714613816001
Jammer Six
11-02-18, 20:59
Two out of three cops carry them because that's what they're issued. If they were issued slingshots, that's what they'd carry. Thank you, Ayoob.
I'm examining the Federal HST loads. If this doesn't work out. I'm just going to start with the Hornady JHP and load my own carry rounds. At least then I'll always be able to get more. And I'll be able to train with what I carry.
Actually, the more I think about it, the better loading my own rounds sounds.
Then I'm more confused by your OP Q.
I was wondering where Golden Saber went is all. :)
I went looking for it the other night and couldn't find it.
Can we delete this from the internet before the 93r and belt keepers become the next subject?
Does the original GS meet the current FBI protocols? Have they updated it? I have not kept track on that one. Back in the day, I recall GS had a poor rep for consistency in terminal ballistics compared to others of the time. Maybe my memory is faulty there.
The 9 and 40 (forget exact bullet weight, but I assume 147/180) are currently on Docs list, though he prefers HST.
He has stated anything on his list he would carry without question.
As a general rule, I avoid Remington stuff whenever possible.
Can we delete this from the internet before the 93r and belt keepers become the next subject?
Haha, this is going places. Most of the boxes have been checked.:sarcastic:
Straight Shooter
11-02-18, 23:40
Ive found the Golden Saber 45ACP 230gr load to be very underwhelming, in terms of both accuracy & velocity. Like everything else from Remington in my opinion,
it just sucks.
From my Glock 41 10 rounds
HI:854
LOW:821
ES:33
AVE:832
Only HP round that failed to go into battery in my G41. Accuracy was below average as I recall, but did not record in my notes. As for ME- Id rather have a Ball load as that crap. All the gel tests Ive seen were un-impressive also.
I just do not f with anything Remington anymore. Its a shame, they are 4 miles from home.
The new Black Belt upgrade is supposed to fix the issue of core separation.
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I just do not f with anything Remington anymore.
I don't take samples every year, but I agree. Rem's .223 ammo has been crazy bad... no neck tension on batches, etc. I've had a few blown primers/malfs in .223 that were just shy of kabooms.
Even their rimfire ammo is trash. That stuff misfeeds auto loaders like crazy.
Straight Shooter
11-03-18, 16:06
I don't take samples every year, but I agree. Rem's .223 ammo has been crazy bad... no neck tension on batches, etc. I've had a few blown primers/malfs in .223 that were just shy of kabooms.
Even their rimfire ammo is trash. That stuff misfeeds auto loaders like crazy.
Brother- it is SO bad. Honestly..I wont allow it in my home. As one who grew up with most things Remington..guns & ammo..im PISSED at what theyve allowed themselves to become.
Your friend Pappabear has a great thread on the Remington 788 rifle I just responded to. PRIME example of craftsmanship and a great rifle that even back in the 70's was considered low cost but not "cheap". Gave $212 for my in mid seventies. Now, I wouldnt own anything theyve made in the last 10-12 years, ammo included.
I carry handloaded gold dots, GASP!
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Klingkong251
11-18-18, 10:59
Two out of three cops carry them because that's what they're issued. If they were issued slingshots, that's what they'd carry. Thank you, Ayoob.
I'm examining the Federal HST loads. If this doesn't work out. I'm just going to start with the Hornady JHP and load my own carry rounds. At least then I'll always be able to get more. And I'll be able to train with what I carry.
Actually, the more I think about it, the better loading my own rounds sounds.
I was wondering where Golden Saber went is all. :)
I went looking for it the other night and couldn't find it.Whether or not they use them because that's what they are issued doesn't change the fact that they are dead nuts reliable. I never shot Glocks until I started my current job. We run Glock 17s on our tac team and I personally carry a 19 off duty. In the thousands of rounds I've put through each, I have never once had any kind of malfunction with either one regardless of what I've fed it but I digress.
Anyway, from everything I've read the Golden Saber round has been a good round for a long time. While newer bullet designs may be "better", I think it is only a marginal difference. Load up and shoot whatever ammo your gun shoots reliably and accurately. Many people have been killed with ball ammo, don't get hung up on picking the "best" defensive load as many of the modern hollow points perform very close to each other.
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