View Full Version : Complete buffer system - BCM vs Sionics vs Aero Precision
Preface: I’m a believer that you get what you pay for; I’ve bought cheap in the past and don’t want to again. I’m also a believer in not overpaying for something. Inexpensive is good; cheap is bad; an item can be both, obviously.
I’m looking at picking up three complete buffer systems and trying to discern the best to buy. I want reliable and solid (what I consider “standard quality”), but I’m not needing boutique features, which I’ve built into a couple of other guns. For reference, these will each have Colt BCG’s in them, rather than Sionics’ NP3, which I purchase for my personal weapons. The barrels will be lighter profiles, not Gov’t, SOCOM, or HBAR; either 16” or 14.5” midlength.
Purpose: General Purpose carbine to introduce children to the AR and give them something to use when we go to the range. (Fantasy Purpose: Toss them to my homies if the world as we know it comes to an end.)
Can someone help me with a comparison/contrast of AP, BCM, and Sionics? The price differences between each are noticeable.
Has anyone observed concerns with the Aero kit? Is the coating on the Sionics worth the extra $$? The cost of the Sionics kit comes across as much better when combined with a lower parts kit, but I am probably going to piece the LPK’s together at righttobear.
Aero Precision - $39.99 (carbine buffer) + $7 (tungsten to make H weight) = $46.99
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-buffer-kit
BCM - $69.95 (H buffer)
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM-STOCK-HARDWARE-KIT
Sionics - $89.95 (H buffer, Blue Sprinco spring, dry film lubricant)
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/lower-receiver-parts/37-bolt-carrier-group-hpmpi-tested-with-np3-carrier.html#/98-end_plate-usgi_500/77-select_buffer_weight-h_buffer
The Sprinco blue would account for the $20 difference between BCM and Sionics. Do you require a sprinco blue?
If not I would go BCM. I would tend to prefer BCM or Sionics over Aero.
Renegade04
11-04-18, 13:51
Personally, I prefer the BCM. I have used it on several of my carbine ARs over the years and have never been disappointed.
RobertTheTexan
11-04-18, 14:22
Have you considered using A5 buffer systems? You mentioned using an AR to introduce kids to shooting. I have a 14.5 that’s ridiculously soft shooting and part of that is in the A5 buffer system I’m running.
If you aren’t suppressing a standard A5 system with an A5H2 buffer would run like a champ.
Yes they cost more - but the same level of options are there with Sprinco, but I have more rifle springs in mine than anything else.
I have not used a carbine buffer since my first build and in fact I swapped it out for an A5 and I’ve used A5 buffer system since. I believe the A5 increases reliability and can improve recoil impulse. Because of these improvements some also believe that it’s not as hard on the internals as a carbine system.
The are as much a part of my build as is any other part. I’m 100% sold on them.
Just another option to consider if you haven’t already.
Heck I’ve got a new A5 buffer spring I’ll give you if you decide to go that route. Give you as in free. Then you just need the tube and buffer.
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RobertTheTexan,
I almost included the A5 system in my original question. I appreciate your input on that, too. Since these will use either pencil or GUNNER-type barrels, the A5H0 buffer offered with BCM’s kit might be the appropriate weight; my understanding is that when it comes to broad-spectrum reliability, the heavier buffers are for heavier barrels. More rigidity/less movement from the barrel requires heavier buffer to offset. So, I would probably stick with an H, possibly taking a slight hit on reliability over CAR. I get it, I’m overthinking that a little.
I get it, I’m overthinking that a little.
Yep.
Every upper I have runs smoother on my A5 lower, including those with suppressors. That's compared to running the same uppers on lowers with an H or H2 buffer.
Yep.
Every upper I have runs smoother on my A5 lower, including those with suppressors. That's compared to running the same uppers on lowers with an H or H2 buffer.
What weight A5 do you generally use?
RobertTheTexan
11-04-18, 15:55
RobertTheTexan,
my understanding is that when it comes to broad-spectrum reliability, the heavier buffers are for heavier barrels. More rigidity/less movement from the barrel requires heavier buffer to offset. So, I would probably stick with an H, possibly taking a slight hit on reliability over CAR. I get it, I’m overthinking that a little.
I have never considered barrel weight in my decision on what buffer & spring to run. Typically that decision is driven by barrel length* and gas system, including gas port size, and whether I will run a can or not. I’m not sure I understand how barrel rigidity can have an effect on how a buffer system cycles - and the “timing” of that cycle. Gas pressure on the other hand can be controlled to a degree by the weight of the buffer and spring in compressing and expanding to extract and chamber.
Not sure if I’m saying that right, it hopefully you get my point.
Maybe that’s an aspect I’ve not been privy to, but Imm pretty sure that my buffer weight and spring decisions have manipulated the cycle timing based on how it was gassing way more than the weight of the barrel influenced those decisions.
My 10.3 SBR has a lighter Hanson profile and I’ve got an A5H3 in it, not a pencils barrel, but lighter than the gov’t. I’ve ran an A5H0 on a 14.5, but in my experience the heavier A5H2 buffer resulted in softer shooting and was just as reliable with .223 and the standard 5.56 I normally shoot.
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OK. I can’t speak from authority here, but from Chris Bartocci’s video content. He is pretty die-hard on any duty weapons not varying from their standard buffer (standard meaning appropriate for barrel profile, not CAR), due to the necessity of their working in all weather conditions. He based this on Colt research.
For your purposes, the Aero is perfectly fine as far as quality goes.
To add to the the mix, I like the magpul receiver extensions because they have more adjustment locations for the stock. If you are helping kids shoot comfortably, this little fine tuning may come in handy. They sell the carbine spring and buffers too.
Seems the overall standard is a carbine H2 buffer. Of your buffer is too light for the action, the cycle is too fast and snappy. Increased wear and recoil. But I would ask the barrel manufacturer what they recommend since they are the ones porting the barrel. I’d skip the A5 setup on this one unless you want to experiment (A5 is what I use most but have no issue with carbine length either).
What weight A5 do you generally use?
A5H2 & green spring. Haven't tried other A5 buffers.
I would disregard the Vltor A5 and stick with what you know. There is no downside to the Sprinco spring and it will work just fine.
Like Robert said, A5 if you're assembling with kids in mind. A5H2 is the default weight per Vltor, for good reason. You don't need a Sprinco green for that mass; a regular rifle spring is arguably better.
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I like the A5A2 and a standard rifle spring........very smoooooth
just a scout
11-04-18, 18:13
I have BCM 14.5 ELW. I switched to a BCM H3, Springco Blue and SOPMOD bolt upgrade kit. Soft shooting and utterly reliable. Notably smoother and softer than with the stock spring and buffer.
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556BlackRifle
11-04-18, 18:13
I have several Vltor A5 H2 and one A5 H3. Also BCM, V7 and Sionics. No Aero and no plans to get one.
I've read countless debates about buffer/spring combinations..... Am i the only one who typically just runs an H or H2 buffer in any mid length or carbine using just a regular USGI carbine action spring? Are the green, blue, white etc. sprinco springs that good?I've got a VLTOR A5H2 with regular rifle spring in only one gun. Never had a problem with either setup.
I personally like the Sprinco springs enough that I use them in all of my AR's. It's not just about a perceived performance but also the life or duration of the spring. I recommend blue for the standard carbines, and green for the A5 stuff.
I've read countless debates about buffer/spring combinations..... Am i the only one who typically just runs an H or H2 buffer in any mid length or carbine using just a regular USGI carbine action spring? Are the green, blue, white etc. sprinco springs that good?I've got a VLTOR A5H2 with regular rifle spring in only one gun. Never had a problem with either setup.
I would disregard the Vltor A5 and stick with what you know. There is no downside to the Sprinco spring and it will work just fine.
I’m going to heed this and set aside the A5 option for now. I get the benefits, but if I want to experiment, I’ll try it out on my “nicer”guns first.
Here’s the Bartocci content I referenced earlier. Wanted to check myself.
https://www.full30.com/video/ef43a929af3d074dd6367d713cd6ddda
In case I missed it, I don't see where he discussed the Vltor A5. In fact in the comments section someone asked about a buffer recommendation and he said A5. But, in any case feel free to search through M4C where the A5 has been discussed numerous times in depth. You don't need to experiment because many of us have done the homework already.
Here’s the Bartocci content I referenced earlier. Wanted to check myself.
https://www.full30.com/video/ef43a929af3d074dd6367d713cd6ddda
Just posted that in regards to regular carbine length buffer systems and the correlation between barrel weight and buffer weight; I mentioned it earlier and wanted to provide the reference for anyone curious.
RobertTheTexan
11-05-18, 00:15
In case I missed it, I don't see where he discussed the Vltor A5. In fact in the comments section someone asked about a buffer recommendation and he said A5. But, in any p on case feel free to search through M4C where the A5 has been discussed numerous times in depth. You don't need to experiment because many of us have done the homework already.
I just realized you were taking about the video. I brought up the A5 as an option, spoke to some benefits I’ve experienced and that I’ve never chosen an A5 buffer and spring based on barrel weight or profile.
I’ll have to watch the video I guess because I still don’t get that.
ETA: updated post after I figured out you were talking about the dude in the video and not this specific thread.
Speaking about Chris' video on buffer weight in correlation with barrel weight.... When i heard him deacribe it the first time it made me go hmmm. He claims Colt uses an H in the M4 but switched to the H2 with the M4A1 SOCOM barrel strictly to lessen bolt bounce due to heavier barrel harmonics.
Interestingly I've never heard anybody else bring it up until now. After thinking about it for a bit, given a gas system that is not out of spec, it would maje sense at least to me.
Yes, I heard that as well. But it should be noted that the gas port size on both barrels is the same. Just like the barrel on a 14.5" and 16" per Colt use the same gas port. It was stated that the engineers at Colt did not feel that the additional barrel length warranted messing with the gas.
Speaking about Chris' video on buffer weight in correlation with barrel weight.... When i heard him deacribe it the first time it made me go hmmm. He claims Colt uses an H in the M4 but switched to the H2 with the M4A1 SOCOM barrel strictly to lessen bolt bounce due to heavier barrel harmonics.
Interestingly I've never heard anybody else bring it up until now. After thinking about it for a bit, given a gas system that is not out of spec, it would maje sense at least to me.
Honest question:
Do we throw this idea out when we move to things like mid lengths with different gas ports?
RobertTheTexan
11-05-18, 06:04
Honest question:
Do we throw this idea out when we move to things like mid lengths with different gas ports?
What do you mean? What idea? Buffer weight and spring selection?
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What do you mean? What idea? Buffer weight and spring selection?
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Sorry, wasn’t clear. I mean the barrel weight/buffer link. If I’m reading correctly, it seemed like IG may have suggested that the M4 buffer solutions may have been due to not changing port size.
I may be misunderstanding, hence the follow up.
556BlackRifle
11-05-18, 11:34
JediGuy - just do a forum search as IG suggested and you will find many posts on this subject.
I bought an Aero buffer tube (receiver extension) a few years ago and it arrived with a very roughly machined interior (exterior was well finished). I send a clear picture to their customer service, who called me to explain it was fine and it would "wear in".
I bought one each BCM carbine and A5 RE and each was smoothly finished inside and out.
Does it really matter how poorly the interior is finished? I don't know, but I do know I won't be purchasing any more Aero receiver extensions.
Andy
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