PDA

View Full Version : Moving Away from the 416?



MountainRaven
11-09-18, 23:21
Not entirely sure where to put this, but this seems like the most appropriate place.

In the picture thread in the AR General Discussion forum, there was some discussion (limited, brief) about certain elite teams going away from the HK416.

Who doesn't bother me so much. So my questions are: What are they going to and why the change?

Apologies if this is not the appropriate place to post this.

drtywk
11-09-18, 23:43
The 416 is/was a contract item for certain organizations and that contract is getting ready to expire. I havenít heard any updates on what the next platform will be or if there will be a contract extension or a new contract.

scooter22
11-10-18, 10:51
This is not a surprise. Itís heavier, less accurate, and recoils more than the competition.

HKGuns
11-10-18, 11:22
This is not a surprise. It’s heavier, less accurate, and recoils more than the competition.

Not really. It is heavier, more accurate and recoils differently, not more.

drtywk
11-10-18, 12:47
This is not a surprise. It’s heavier, less accurate, and recoils more than the competition.

It's on the internet, so it must be true...

I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but the units that have them, use the hell out of them and they do what they are supposed to do exceptionally well.

Stickman
11-10-18, 13:35
The 416 is a love/ hate system, and has been for a long time. In that same vein, HK has been a love/ hate system with an allure all its own. It isn't my place to make specific comment, but the replacement of the 416 by certain units is something that has been commented on to me by more than one individual.

I think it is important for people to remember that certain units acquiring systems are very, very needy, and I don't mean that in a bad way. If you are a premier assaulter, I would expect you to have premier equipment. ALL of the premier equipment, which means if pieces need to change, or be tailored for certain needs, I expect it to be done. That is going to create large demands at times for the manufacturer of the equipment as short notice things come up.

Lets use boots for an example. Do the laces stretch? Fix it. Do the laces not stretch? Fix it. Do the laces burn to easy? Fix it. Do the laces grab foreign debris? Fix it.... and on and on. Sure, this isn't the best of examples, but you can quickly see where end users can have varying wants and needs.

mack7.62
11-10-18, 14:51
Are they going away or some units just getting some new toys? If a unit did a lot of water infiltration I could see them keeping them just for that purpose. Remember the pics of the SEAL arms room, when those guys get tasked with a mission they don't have just one weapon they have to use they get to pick and choose.

pointblank4445
11-10-18, 15:01
This is not a surprise. Itís heavier, less accurate, and recoils more than the competition.

For grins, I started testing some 416's like I would do on a precision rifle...Magneto/chrono, ammo tests, distance shoots, ballistic charts...the whole 9 yards. To say that the 416 is "less accurate" than its parallel DI counterpart is purely false. The oddball 20" upper I have on loan to test is putting up some incredible groups. The 14.5" was no slouch either in holding at least MOA out to 500y with a meager 4x scope and factory match ammo.

Furbyballer
11-16-18, 07:12
What you heard is true. Many are moving to the new geissele upper/m4 lower combo or back to the mk18. This has been a slow migration for awhile now, but has sped up with the introduction of the new geissele upper.

themonk
11-16-18, 09:34
What you heard is true. Many are moving to the new geissele upper/m4 lower combo or back to the mk18. This has been a slow migration for awhile now, but has sped up with the introduction of the new geissele upper.

What is their reasoning?

RHINOWSO
11-16-18, 15:07
People at the level Stickman refers to want what they want. They usually aren't as invested as us online gun guys are with Brand X, Y, or Z. They want a capability, they want a performance, and they usually get it tailored to their specific and sometimes individual needs and desires.

It's like a Pro Football player wanted these cleats, these pads, etc etc. Why? Because he wants them to perform at a very very high level. So he gets it. Not because your preferred brand sucks donkey balls, but because he wants what he wants.

Furbyballer
11-18-18, 09:31
What is their reasoning?

Its lighter, easier to repair/maintain in the field, more reliable (endurance testing for the geissele upper was insanely successful...), and the BCG.

Stickman
11-18-18, 18:32
What you heard is true. Many are moving to the new geissele upper/m4 lower combo or back to the mk18. This has been a slow migration for awhile now, but has sped up with the introduction of the new geissele upper.

Different than what I mean, but yes, that is certainly true as well.

HKGuns
11-22-18, 22:45
The user groups in USASOC with 416's MTOE are not migrating back to DI guns.

Also, I'm not seeing how a midlength URG equates with 10" assaulter guns.

Slightly off topic.. IMO The USMC should of went with an URG type solution v M27

Thanks for the info Dano, nice to see you back too.

/Thread closed

patriot_man
12-07-18, 03:35
Didn't the group that developed the HK416 initially want something like the MCX with the fordable stock?

I recall reading about Jim Schatz's thoughts on the MCX concept on HK Pro and how he thought that was the future.

Yeetster
12-19-18, 15:14
If i had to take a guess with my limited experience with a couple friends 416's, its that they're heavy, expensive and offer little advantage over a standard AR pattern rifle....unless you're one of those people that truly believe piston>DI then the 416 is all the rage to you. I'd also imagine that a piston gun such as the 416 presents challenges suppressing....i can't speak to that as no one owns a suppressor and a 416 together.

markm
12-19-18, 16:51
If i had to take a guess with my limited experience with a couple friends 416's, its that they're heavy, expensive and offer little advantage over a standard AR pattern rifle

The 416 came about in the wake of years of bottom feeders flooding the market with overgassed, corner cut, garbage that gave the DI gun an unjustified bad rap in some internutsack circles. So I get that it has a civilian following with fans of the HK guns.

I'd love to play with a 416 some time. I have to admit that due to the horribly retarded attempts to make a piston AR work by every other yahoo on the planet have me pretty biased against the HK version. However the 416 has been around long enough now that it must work pretty well, or it'd be history too.

HKGuns
12-19-18, 17:17
It works phenomenally well and is a joy to clean too Mark. Not that a regular AR is hard, its just that much less mes to deal with after shooting.

Stickman
12-19-18, 18:02
The user groups in USASOC with 416's MTOE are not migrating back to DI guns.

Also, I'm not seeing how a midlength URG equates with 10" assaulter guns.

Slightly off topic.. IMO The USMC should of went with an URG type solution v M27

I can't figure why the USMC ever went with complete weapons either. They could have gone with mod kits and made things easy.

jpmuscle
12-19-18, 18:17
Iíd give my left nut for a legit 416 10.4

Pinnacle of shorty perfection imo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WickedWillis
12-19-18, 19:56
I’d give my left nut for a legit 416 10.4

Pinnacle of shorty perfection imo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am right there with you. It's been a dream gun of mine forever.

MorphCross
12-19-18, 21:42
I can't figure why the USMC ever went with complete weapons either. They could have gone with mod kits and made things easy.

U.S.M.C. identity firearm? Sort of like the AK-74 for Russia, the L85A3 for U.K., the MSBS for Poland, the AUG for Austria, etc.

pointblank4445
12-19-18, 22:48
The 416 came about in the wake of years of bottom feeders flooding the market with overgassed, corner cut, garbage that gave the DI gun an unjustified bad rap in some internutsack circles. So I get that it has a civilian following with fans of the HK guns.

I'd love to play with a 416 some time. I have to admit that due to the horribly retarded attempts to make a piston AR work by every other yahoo on the planet have me pretty biased against the HK version. However the 416 has been around long enough now that it must work pretty well, or it'd be history too.


Time and time again, when the discussion of "legit" piston guns comes up, the 416 is always the standard. Some will mention LWRC, some won't but the HK is pretty unanimous in that respect.

True, things have changed a lot in AR's since 03/04, and many will argue that the piston assembly may have taken too much of the credit and the mojo in the CHF barrel and the use of different methods/materials/finishes should deserve some of the credit. Geissele, Hodge/Mega, Centurion, Forward Control Design and various others have instituted features on guns now that were first seen on (AR's) the 416...whether they know it or not.

Has the AR game stepped up and narrowed the gap? Absolutely! Is the 416 irrelevant?...I say no simply because it's an accurate, reliable, long-lasting gun...the economics and availability just happen to suck. We all know HK is going to do whatever they want until a contract requires them to remove their head from their rear. It still has plenty of room for improvement, and if HK wants to stay relevant, taking a page out of the DI book from the last 15 years wouldn't hurt. Refine your gas port size/settings, lighten your barrel, stop doing weird HKeyish s#it that nobody wants and get some MLOK.

prdubi
12-19-18, 22:54
I'm happy still with my Titan Defense clone.

Accurate and reliable with no issues.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk