View Full Version : Cattle mutilations
This happened about 30 miles from where I live. I heard about this back in the 1970's but thought it had ceased. Cultists or something similar? I really don't buy the UFO angle.
"A cow and a bull were both killed overnight. An ear cut off. A section of hide detached. The scrotum and penis carefully removed. The vaginal cavity gone. The blood drained.
No discernible tracks were found near the carcasses, which were lying near an infrequently traveled road. Little blood was found on the ground and the cow was wedged up into a tree as if trying to escape from something.
In his decades of living in the scrubby pinyon-juniper forests north of Williams, the 66-year-old Mahan has raised horses and small herds of cattle and seen animals killed by predators such as mountain lions and coyotes. He has witnessed scavengers such as ravens and vultures picking at carrion, but never has he witnessed the deliberate dismemberment he saw last week."
https://www.williamsnews.com/news/2018/sep/18/cattle-mutilations-baffle-williams-rancher/
just a scout
11-09-18, 22:48
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MountainRaven
11-09-18, 22:55
Sounds like a cult-ish thing: Sexual organs removed, blood drained. Something-something-something the occult.
Cattle mutilations are one of the few things that truly mystify me. If it is cultists, are they really that wide spread yet able to mostly stay under the radar? Aliens, while I suppose *possible* seems improbable to me. Same with secret gov't programs using silent, high tech, anti-gravity vehicles... yes, I watch too many conspiracy shows when I'm bored.
Sounds like a cult-ish thing: Sexual organs removed, blood drained. Something-something-something the occult.
Sounds like some dickheads trying to make people think it's cults, UFOs or whatever so they can get their jollies torturing animals and feeling like they are smarter than everyone else.
About 10 years ago FL had a rash of feral humans who were butchering horses alive to sell the meat. Humans truly disgust me some times.
Crop circles are up next.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-10-18, 11:55
That dog-gone heavy metal music
1_click_off
11-10-18, 11:58
Did you read the comment section under the article? They tell you what happened.
Jimmy wrote
“The cow didn't climb up into the fork of the tree, it was dropped from the air from a ufo. We have had these mutilations in Oklahoma and they are ET related. 90% of mutilations are done on pregnant female cows, and the left ear is always taken. Ever seen a bigfoot fetus in a cow? I know a rancher that found a dead cow with a bigfoot fetus, and he had been plagued with mutilations. Apparently they didn't make it back in time to do a c section or mutilation and take the bigfoot fetus. Subsequently the cow went into labor and died because the bigfoot fetus was to big. We're dealing with other worldy entiities with advanced dna knowledge and they're incubating bigfoots in cows. They take a cow egg, suck out the dna and replace it with bigfoot dna, then reinsert it back into the cow and put a tracking implant in the ear, that they retrieve by cutting the ear off when they return to retrieve the bigfoot fetus. The big question is, why are they incubating up an army of bigfoots? Maybe to take over the world someday? Truth is stranger than fiction.”
I'd love to see that movie :D
Did you read the comment section under the article? They tell you what happened.
Jimmy wrote
“The cow didn't climb up into the fork of the tree, it was dropped from the air from a ufo. We have had these mutilations in Oklahoma and they are ET related. 90% of mutilations are done on pregnant female cows, and the left ear is always taken. Ever seen a bigfoot fetus in a cow? I know a rancher that found a dead cow with a bigfoot fetus, and he had been plagued with mutilations. Apparently they didn't make it back in time to do a c section or mutilation and take the bigfoot fetus. Subsequently the cow went into labor and died because the bigfoot fetus was to big. We're dealing with other worldy entiities with advanced dna knowledge and they're incubating bigfoots in cows. They take a cow egg, suck out the dna and replace it with bigfoot dna, then reinsert it back into the cow and put a tracking implant in the ear, that they retrieve by cutting the ear off when they return to retrieve the bigfoot fetus. The big question is, why are they incubating up an army of bigfoots? Maybe to take over the world someday? Truth is stranger than fiction.”
Well- that explains everything.
Damn, nothing's been the same since David Lee Roth left Van Halen, I tell ya.
It has happened in New Mexico over the years, and always it was suspected to be Satan Worshipers from some big city, at least until the last one. A few years ago a rancher 20 miles north of here I know in Harding County found two of his cattle killed. He saw the vultures circling and rode out to investigate. Two steers killed with an oval shaped incision to remove the heart of both. No blood on the ground and the cattle were found @ three miles from the nearest road. I got to see some digital images shown to me by a sheriff's deputy friend who was alerting other ranchers and asking questions about strangers in the area.
As a former rotor pilot, I figured the cattle may have been killed elsewhere and deposited in their found location by helicopter, but the rancher heard nothing that sounded like a choppper in his area. Another question was were these his cattle and brands were checked to verify they were his. The cattle had been dead a few days before they were found considering the level of putrefaction.
I have no answer for this. A lot of work in a very remote area to remove the hearts of two steers, and leave no evidence of footprints or vehicle tracks. Some of the old time Spanish ranchers think it's the work of Satanic Demons, not people. Lots of superstitious people in rural New Mexico.
Yeah, in the 40+ years this has been going on, to my knowledge no one has been apprehended.
Did you read the comment section under the article? They tell you what happened.
Jimmy wrote
“The cow didn't climb up into the fork of the tree, it was dropped from the air from a ufo. We have had these mutilations in Oklahoma and they are ET related. 90% of mutilations are done on pregnant female cows, and the left ear is always taken. Ever seen a bigfoot fetus in a cow? I know a rancher that found a dead cow with a bigfoot fetus, and he had been plagued with mutilations. Apparently they didn't make it back in time to do a c section or mutilation and take the bigfoot fetus. Subsequently the cow went into labor and died because the bigfoot fetus was to big. We're dealing with other worldy entiities with advanced dna knowledge and they're incubating bigfoots in cows. They take a cow egg, suck out the dna and replace it with bigfoot dna, then reinsert it back into the cow and put a tracking implant in the ear, that they retrieve by cutting the ear off when they return to retrieve the bigfoot fetus. The big question is, why are they incubating up an army of bigfoots? Maybe to take over the world someday? Truth is stranger than fiction.”
Amazing I don't believe a single word of that account.
wildcard600
11-11-18, 20:06
Not even 'Jimmy wrote?'
No. Jimmy probably isn't even his real name.
BuzzinSATX
11-11-18, 22:28
This isn’t a new phenomenon by any means. All links below are from local news sources. Just a few of the more compelling articles:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4651410/Cattle-mutilation-40-YEARS-stumps-FBI-farmers.html
http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/fort-morgan-local-news/ci_32242450/cause-mutilations-questioned
https://www.northqueenslandregister.com.au/story/5633519/mutilated-cattle-work-of-aliens/
https://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/02/ufo_cow_mutilations_oregon_no.html
Outlander Systems
11-12-18, 07:37
So, let me get this straight....
Devil-Worshippers, over the span of decades, surgically remove organs from cattle, have a 100% success rate, and risk being shot by ranchers?
Yeah, no.
Some of you older folks may remember this case. It made the newspapers for a while in the 1960's and 70's:
https://alamosanews.com/article/after-50-years-snippy-still-a-mystery
It's like the very first episode of South Park where aliens think that cows are the most intelligent species on the planet.
SomeOtherGuy
11-12-18, 08:21
So, let me get this straight....
Devil-Worshippers, over the span of decades, surgically remove organs from cattle, have a 100% success rate, and risk being shot by ranchers?
Yeah, no.
Nope.
From the link in post 19:
He found the animal’s lungs, heart and thyroid were completely missing, removed with some of the cleanest cuts he had ever seen. The brain and abdominal organs were gone, he said, and there was no material in the spinal column.
Nope.
I have no idea of the cause, but I'm going to say it's not wild animals, ordinary human thieves, or "Satan worshiper" human thieves.
How do you remove all the "material" from a horse's spinal column without taking out the column and processing it in small pieces?
BuzzinSATX
11-12-18, 08:25
So, let me get this straight....
Devil-Worshippers, over the span of decades, surgically remove organs from cattle, have a 100% success rate, and risk being shot by ranchers?
Yeah, no.
Agree. And this goes back further than decades.
http://www.ufonut.com/alexander-hamilton-and-the-1800s-cattle-mutilation-incident/
I understand that this last link was from a “UFO” site, but I am fairly sure the source story is valid. I tried a quick search but kept getting stuck on other paths regarding the more famous Alex Hamilton.
I’m not sure what to think about this subject, but it is clearly documented worldwide. And there are a lot of unrelated (location/witnesses/timeframes) stories that mention the same evidence, lack of blood, missing ear, and flying crafts.
It’s simply arrogant to totally dismiss the many witness accounts outright just because they don’t match our current accepted norms regarding UFO’s and the like.
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This happened about 30 miles from where I live. I heard about this back in the 1970's but thought it had ceased. Cultists or something similar? I really don't buy the UFO angle.
If cultists, it's been going on for many decades world wide and not single one ever seen, much less caught, no human tracks left, etc. I don't know what it is, but ninjas and Dev Gru could learn a thing or two from them if cultist types.
Whoever the culprits are, they seemingly did this with cold detachment and no compassion for these animals.
Doc Safari
11-12-18, 09:12
Cattle mutilations are past history. Whoever is doing this has escalated to humans. You can find accounts on YouTube.
Cattle mutilations are past history. Whoever is doing this has escalated to humans. You can find accounts on YouTube.
That would bring the feds in big time. Are we talking murder? Link?
SomeOtherGuy
11-12-18, 09:43
If cultists, it's been going on for many decades world wide and not single one ever seen, much less caught, no human tracks left, etc. I don't know what it is, but ninjas and Dev Gru could learn a thing or two from them if cultist types.
Cattle mutilations are past history. Whoever is doing this has escalated to humans. You can find accounts on YouTube.
Not sure what Doc is referring to, but the disappearances that David Paulides has catalogued in "Missing 411" include some similar elements.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/
Doc Safari
11-12-18, 09:47
That would bring the feds in big time. Are we talking murder? Link?
If you Google human mutilations, Linda Moulton Howe, Dyatlov (sp?) Pass human mutilations, you get some interesting hits.
Outlander Systems
11-12-18, 09:49
Mr. Paulides’s research into missing persons is absolutely chilling.
Not sure what Doc is referring to, but the disappearances that David Paulides has catalogued in "Missing 411" include some similar elements.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/
BuzzinSATX
11-12-18, 10:16
Cattle mutilations are past history. Whoever is doing this has escalated to humans. You can find accounts on YouTube.
No, they are really not "past history", per the original post in this thread, they are still happening today.
Are they related to "human mutilations"? Maybe in a few situations. I believe the satanic/devil/witchcraft practice and worship is more prevalent than many folks understand. And then there are the Jeffery Dahmer psychopaths...surely they account for some number of animal mutilations.
But the truly puzzeling instances are the ones that occur out in pastures and fields with zero signs of a struggle, no trace of blood, no vehicle tracks, and no sign of people or animals that caused the killing/damage. Those are the ones I find most disturbing.
Think about it. If a dozen people decided they were going to go out and whack up a cow, especially a field cow, it simply would not be easy. These cows are not shot, they are not clubbed to death...they are, by accounts of the evidence, killed where they are found. No drag marks, no rope marks. If they fatally stabbed or slit the animals jugular, there would be blood spilled everywhere, and the cow would not just stand there until it dies....it would be trying to run away. It is very strange indeed.
If it were a predator like a wolf, cougar, bear, coyotes, there would be clear sign of the kill, the feeding, and the aftermath. But that type of evidence is not left behind in these mystery mutilations.
Doc Safari
11-12-18, 10:21
No, they are really not "past history", per the original post in this thread, they are still happening today.
Are they related to "human mutilations"? Maybe in a few situations. I believe the satanic/devil/witchcraft practice and worship is more prevalent than many folks understand. And then there are the Jeffery Dahmer psychopaths...surely they account for some number of animal mutilations.
But the truly puzzeling instances are the ones that occur out in pastures and fields with zero signs of a struggle, no trace of blood, no vehicle tracks, and no sign of people or animals that caused the killing/damage. Those are the ones I find most disturbing.
Think about it. If a dozen people decided they were going to go out and whack up a cow, especially a field cow, it simply would not be easy. These cows are not shot, they are not clubbed to death...they are, by accounts of the evidence, killed where they are found. No drag marks, no rope marks. If they fatally stabbed or slit the animals jugular, there would be blood spilled everywhere, and the cow would not just stand there until it dies....it would be trying to run away. It is very strange indeed.
If it were a predator like a wolf, cougar, bear, coyotes, there would be clear sign of the kill, the feeding, and the aftermath. But that type of evidence is not left behind in these mystery mutilations.
Don't forget that in some cases it appears the animal was dropped from a great height: like an aircraft or something. When I said they were past history I meant that they are no longer breaking news. Most people don't know about human mutilations and yet they appear to be going on as well, but with less freqency.
If you Google human mutilations, Linda Moulton Howe, Dyatlov (sp?) Pass human mutilations, you get some interesting hits.
According to more recent material I've read, the damage to the victims in the Dyatlov Pass case is actually more in line with known, natural phenomena (Scavengers, slip and fall injuries) than many more sensationalistic accounts lead one to believe. The oft-reported radioactivity of the corpses was apparently not unusually high either.
The real mystery in my opinion is what led them to flee the tent only partially dressed in the first place.
BuzzinSATX
11-12-18, 10:31
Mr. Paulides’s research into missing persons is absolutely chilling.
Yes, David Paulides has uncovered/brought to light some very disturbing trends including the numbers of missing people in our rural areas and state and national forests and parks.
BuzzinSATX
11-12-18, 10:32
Don't forget that in some cases it appears the animal was dropped from a great height: like an aircraft or something. When I said they were past history I meant that they are no longer breaking news. Most people don't know about human mutilations and yet they appear to be going on as well, but with less freqency.
Okay...sorry for missing your point. Thanks.
SomeOtherGuy
11-12-18, 12:43
Yes, David Paulides has uncovered/brought to light some very disturbing trends including the numbers of missing people in our rural areas and state and national forests and parks.
Some of the parallels with the 411 cases:
-bodies often show up in inaccessible areas, as if dropped from the air
-bodies often lack a clear cause of death
-alternatively, sometimes only tiny fragments of the deceased are found (identified with DNA)
-no signs of struggle or voluntary movement in the area where found
Some of the differences:
-mostly in rural areas and parks
-not centered on Kansas in any way
-few cases of carefully removed organs
-body usually found days or weeks after missing, often in an area previously searched
Yes, David Paulides has uncovered/brought to light some very disturbing trends including the numbers of missing people in our rural areas and state and national forests and parks.
At a higher level than average? Never found? It should be noted that cattle mutilations are often accompanied by UFO sightings.
Outlander Systems
11-12-18, 13:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wjizbKkNrk
At a higher level than average? Never found? It should be noted that cattle mutilations are often accompanied by UFO sightings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wjizbKkNrk
There are a lot of his interviews on YouTube and the information he puts out is interesting. I haven’t read any books of his books, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wjizbKkNrk
Wow....thanks. Makes me not want to go hunting by myself on my land now. The account about Bart was chilling.
Wow....thanks. Makes me not want to go hunting by myself on my land now. The account about Bart was chilling.
I'm planning to go camping alone soon myself! :blink:
Outlander Systems
11-12-18, 17:28
David has pointed out on numerous occasions that no one with both a firearm and personal locator has ever gone missing.
David has pointed out on numerous occasions that no one with both a firearm and personal locator has ever gone missing.
Dave is like "I'm not saying it's aliens but...." Fascinating stuff.
Dave is like "I'm not saying it's aliens but...." Fascinating stuff.
I've listened to a lot of his interviews and, like he says, it is hard to pinpoint one cause for all of the disappearances. Some are like "well , stuff happens in the deep woods" while others are like "WTH????" and make no sense at all.
Whiskey_Bravo
11-12-18, 17:56
I backpack alone every now and then. If the aliens want me they will need to deal with my GSD and my Glock. Hoping probing me isn't worth the hassle.
I've listened to a lot of his interviews and, like he says, it is hard to pinpoint one cause for all of the disappearances. Some are like "well , stuff happens in the deep woods" while others are like "WTH????" and make no sense at all.
Unlike those from Ancient Aliens, etc, he seems able to parse the differences between chit happens to wtf. 2 years olds found miles away through rough terrain at high elevations is in the wtf category for sure. What's really messed up is, it sounds like Predator for some of them. Like for real. Yikes.
Unlike those from Ancient Aliens, etc, he seems able to parse the differences between chit happens to wtf. 2 years olds found miles away through rough terrain at high elevations is in the wtf category for sure. What's really messed up is, it sounds like Predator for some of them. Like for real. Yikes.
I just got done listening to whole thing. I told my wife about it and she wanted to listen to it after explained the occurrence about Bart. I mentioned the Predator movie about that instance without knowing David would mention it as well. My wife shit a brick when she heard him mention it as well.
And to think that Arnold is finished fighting Predators...
SomeOtherGuy
11-12-18, 20:09
David has pointed out on numerous occasions that no one with both a firearm and personal locator has ever gone missing.
I'd have to go back and listen but I think he noted a recent case - a FIRST - where someone with both did go missing. But yeah, 99.99% of the time having both seems to be insurance.
He won't say what his ideas are, probably because he would get labeled as soon as he did. FYI one of his other interests is bigfoot. But his most recent work is on urban disappearances with the same weird profile.
Me? I'm not saying it's Predator, but... I'd sure like to limit my hikes to groups with a minigun, at least two future governors, and a supply of IR-blocking mud.
BuzzinSATX
11-12-18, 20:31
...
He won't say what his ideas are, probably because he would get labeled as soon as he did. FYI one of his other interests is bigfoot. But his most recent work is on urban disappearances with the same weird profile.
.
Like “aliens”, Bigfoot/Sasquatch is another worldwide phenomenon with thousands of witnesses and accounts that go back many years.
And like aliens, it’s a topic of jokes and humor...until someone actually looks into the subject and studies the witness testimonies...
I’m not sure what to think about Sasquatch, but do not go by any of the “reality” shows as much more than misleading entertainment on the subject.
Google Les Stroud’s take on the subjects. Interesting stuff.
I’m not a believer, nor am I a naysayer. Just a guy with an open mind and a lot of unanswered questions.
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Me? I'm not saying it's Predator, but... I'd sure like to limit my hikes to groups with a minigun, at least two future governors, and a supply of IR-blocking mud.
You can have my governor elect! Of course, she won't be happy about you packing evil black rifles, but then again PredBait should be the easiest target.
Sorry for the drift...but New Mexico is going crazy California style. Santa Fe is the new San Francisco, and now the Dems have a stranglehold on the legislature. And we are flooded with (illegal) aliens already...no telling how many "sanctuary seeker" Predators slipped across the border already...I kid, I kid...
MountainRaven
11-12-18, 21:09
David has pointed out on numerous occasions that no one with both a firearm and personal locator has ever gone missing.
Is it the firearm, the personal locator, or both that's the key?
I'd have to go back and listen but I think he noted a recent case - a FIRST - where someone with both did go missing. But yeah, 99.99% of the time having both seems to be insurance.
He won't say what his ideas are, probably because he would get labeled as soon as he did. FYI one of his other interests is bigfoot. But his most recent work is on urban disappearances with the same weird profile.
Me? I'm not saying it's Predator, but... I'd sure like to limit my hikes to groups with a minigun, at least two future governors, and a supply of IR-blocking mud.
Is it someone who went missing with both and was later found under similar circumstances to that described previously in this thread? Or just someone out hunting, with a personal locator, who went missing? (Which is pretty easy to imagine how that might happen without resorting to, "Yautja did it.")
SomeOtherGuy
11-12-18, 22:39
Is it the firearm, the personal locator, or both that's the key?
Is it someone who went missing with both and was later found under similar circumstances to that described previously in this thread? Or just someone out hunting, with a personal locator, who went missing? (Which is pretty easy to imagine how that might happen without resorting to, "Yautja did it.")
Relatively few people who carry guns go missing, or are found dead, in the particular type of scenario that Paulides focuses on. Add the locator beacon and it drops to 1 ever (IIRC) or zero.
Paulides doesn't come out and say that something intelligent and malevolent is abducting people, but that's the obvious conclusion to draw from his accounts of hundreds of disappearances meeting a profile. Whether that evil is aliens, bigfoot, Spetsnaz or COBRA is not opined on.
His "missing 411" research focuses on a specific disappearance/death scenario that is disturbingly common in the national parks. It's not each and every person who goes missing. He is a guest on some radio shows and you can listen to them on youtube to get a flavor. I have not read his books, but will - some day.
Outlander Systems
11-13-18, 07:38
Apparently both.
While he's never openly speculated as to why this is, strictly based upon the data he's collected over the years, the number of people with both a firearm and transponder who have gone missing in his data-set is exactly zero.
Is it the firearm, the personal locator, or both that's the key?
Relatively few people who carry guns go missing, or are found dead, in the particular type of scenario that Paulides focuses on. Add the locator beacon and it drops to 1 ever (IIRC) or zero.
Paulides doesn't come out and say that something intelligent and malevolent is abducting people, but that's the obvious conclusion to draw from his accounts of hundreds of disappearances meeting a profile. Whether that evil is aliens, bigfoot, Spetsnaz or COBRA is not opined on.
His "missing 411" research focuses on a specific disappearance/death scenario that is disturbingly common in the national parks. It's not each and every person who goes missing. He is a guest on some radio shows and you can listen to them on youtube to get a flavor. I have not read his books, but will - some day.
The vid posted was on hunters, so in that segment, armed.
I enjoy listening to Mr. Paulides a great deal, but I think the correct explanation is the simplest. He started his research in National Parks, where the large majority of visitors have no outdoors experience. Combine this with the large number of visitors (possibly making it fertile ground for crazies/serial killers) and you have a recipe for people going missing.
Then he expands it to other wilderness areas near big cities. Take for instance, the Uinta mountains, an area where there is a large (~2 million) population living next to an even larger hunk of nothing. Despite the fact that nearly everyone in SLC has an REI membership, very few are hardcore outdoors folk. Most are completely amateur, and I could easily see them getting lost in the high Uintas, where trails aren’t well marked and navigation skills are recommended.
I’ve seen what a lot of these people (don’t) carry, and you really don’t need to make up a yeti/sasquatch/qwijibo to explain it.
I enjoy listening to Mr. Paulides a great deal, but I think the correct explanation is the simplest. He started his research in National Parks, where the large majority of visitors have no outdoors experience. Combine this with the large number of visitors (possibly making it fertile ground for crazies/serial killers) and you have a recipe for people going missing.
Then he expands it to other wilderness areas near big cities. Take for instance, the Uinta mountains, an area where there is a large (~2 million) population living next to an even larger hunk of nothing. Despite the fact that nearly everyone in SLC has an REI membership, very few are hardcore outdoors folk. Most are completely amateur, and I could easily see them getting lost in the high Uintas, where trails aren’t well marked and navigation skills are recommended.
I’ve seen what a lot of these people (don’t) carry, and you really don’t need to make up a yeti/sasquatch/qwijibo to explain it.
Some that's true no doubt, others, not so much. Life long hunters with mil background with no tracks but their own found, and nothing else. Some of them can't be explained by the usual suspects. Bodies found with no signs of violence, toddlers found miles from where there were, where grown men with experience have difficulty getting to. Etc, etc. Vid posted page or so back (#37), all hunters, all armed...
Outlander Systems
11-13-18, 13:49
IIRC, there was a DIA program that involved the study of animal mutilations in the Uintah Basin area called AAWSAP.
I enjoy listening to Mr. Paulides a great deal, but I think the correct explanation is the simplest. He started his research in National Parks, where the large majority of visitors have no outdoors experience. Combine this with the large number of visitors (possibly making it fertile ground for crazies/serial killers) and you have a recipe for people going missing.
Then he expands it to other wilderness areas near big cities. Take for instance, the Uinta mountains, an area where there is a large (~2 million) population living next to an even larger hunk of nothing. Despite the fact that nearly everyone in SLC has an REI membership, very few are hardcore outdoors folk. Most are completely amateur, and I could easily see them getting lost in the high Uintas, where trails aren’t well marked and navigation skills are recommended.
I’ve seen what a lot of these people (don’t) carry, and you really don’t need to make up a yeti/sasquatch/qwijibo to explain it.
MountainRaven
11-13-18, 14:10
The vid posted was on hunters, so in that segment, armed.
Although the first individual was armed with a bow, deep and alone in bear country.
I enjoy listening to Mr. Paulides a great deal, but I think the correct explanation is the simplest. He started his research in National Parks, where the large majority of visitors have no outdoors experience. Combine this with the large number of visitors (possibly making it fertile ground for crazies/serial killers) and you have a recipe for people going missing.
Honestly, having listened to the Big Buck Registry podcast thing, it strikes me as a form of ghost story. Sort of thing you might tell around a campfire.
Then he expands it to other wilderness areas near big cities. Take for instance, the Uinta mountains, an area where there is a large (~2 million) population living next to an even larger hunk of nothing. Despite the fact that nearly everyone in SLC has an REI membership, very few are hardcore outdoors folk. Most are completely amateur, and I could easily see them getting lost in the high Uintas, where trails aren’t well marked and navigation skills are recommended.
I’ve seen what a lot of these people (don’t) carry, and you really don’t need to make up a yeti/sasquatch/qwijibo to explain it.
It's important to remember that places like the High Uintas Wilderness is mountainous - and mountainous areas in general - are places of treacherous terrain, where weather can change at the drop of a hat, and if you're not ready for those rapid weather changes... it doesn't take long for someone to become disoriented, lost, and subsequently die.
Although the first individual was armed with a bow, deep and alone in bear country.
But the evidence not congruent with a bear attack by all accounts, but I can't claim expertise on the topic. He does say bow hunters tend to disappear with more regularity than those with guns, which also makes some sense if the cause some predator. It's astounding to me how many bow hunters don't at least have a side arm for backup, and or, how many hunters only have what their rifle can carry for ammo, etc.
While I understand why people hunt, I never understood hunters. Whole different mindset. Actually, would make an interesting thread onto itself.
I'd love to see that movie :D
Start with this one:
Endangered Species (1982)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083885/
MountainRaven
11-13-18, 15:20
But the evidence not congruent with a bear attack by all accounts, but I can't claim expertise on the topic. He does say bow hunters tend to disappear with more regularity than those with guns, which also makes some sense if the cause some predator. It's astounding to me how many bow hunters don't at least have a side arm for backup, and or, how many hunters only have what their rifle can carry for ammo, etc.
While I understand why people hunt, I never understood hunters. Whole different mindset. Actually, would make an interesting thread onto itself.
I don't understand why someone would intentionally hunt alone, unless it was just on their own back forty. (Unless it's strictly for sustenance, which will generally means doing it on your own back forty - where the back forty is more like forty-thousand and it isn't yours alone.)
But for me, hunting is as much a social thing as a practical/food thing - being in BF nowhere with friends and guns is always fun for me, whether it's coyote hunting, deer hunting, bird hunting, or just walking around plinking prairie dogs or gophers.
I don't understand why someone would intentionally hunt alone, unless it was just on their own back forty. (Unless it's strictly for sustenance, which will generally means doing it on your own back forty - where the back forty is more like forty-thousand and it isn't yours alone.)
But for me, hunting is as much a social thing as a practical/food thing - being in BF nowhere with friends and guns is always fun for me, whether it's coyote hunting, deer hunting, bird hunting, or just walking around plinking prairie dogs or gophers.
I live in "BF nowhere" on 25,000 acres deeded plus a small BLM lease on the side. Hunting out here can be of necessity, not for just sport. The occasional Mountain Lion (Puma concolor) has been responsible for killing cattle here and other ranches in the area. They are also man killers as well, one in southwestern New Mexico a decade ago. I took one a few years back that was harassing the herd.
I don't understand why someone would intentionally hunt alone, unless it was just on their own back forty. (Unless it's strictly for sustenance, which will generally means doing it on your own back forty - where the back forty is more like forty-thousand and it isn't yours alone.)
But for me, hunting is as much a social thing as a practical/food thing - being in BF nowhere with friends and guns is always fun for me, whether it's coyote hunting, deer hunting, bird hunting, or just walking around plinking prairie dogs or gophers.
I get it. I used to take long hikes in NH alone with my side arm (as defense against two and four leg varmints) and would "shoot" photos of animals while doing it. I wore a bright orange hat in case their were hunters about. I saw bear tracks, etc. I just wanted to be alone in the deep woods. I can see the fun of doing it as a group as a social thing, or going alone to be alone. Most of my hunting pals seem to prefer hunting alone. Me, getting up in the dark to sit in a tree and freeze my ass off in the hopes a deer may come along is up there with getting a root canal and offers zero appeal to me. Hiking, camping, etc does, and may go hog hunting now that it's cooling off in FL and does not require getting up at 3am....
I don't understand why someone would intentionally hunt alone.
Because other people are generally super annoying and sometimes you just gotta get that shit out of your face for a day or two to clear your head.
(I don't hunt, but if I did, I would do it solo)
Outlander Systems
11-13-18, 16:56
All my hunting buddies solo hunt. The only time we ever do a group hunt is if we’re hog hunting.
Because other people are generally super annoying and sometimes you just gotta get that shit out of your face for a day or two to clear your head.
(I don't hunt, but if I did, I would do it solo)
Doc Safari
11-13-18, 17:01
All my hunting buddies solo hunt. The only time we ever do a group hunt is if we’re hog hunting.
I solo hunt, hike, patrol, fish, fart and just about anything else you can do in the outdoors (get your mind out of the gutter :D). It helps me clear my head, think about things, sort out problems, etc.
qwijibo
Nice obscure Simpsons reference.
Some that's true no doubt, others, not so much. Life long hunters with mil background with no tracks but their own found, and nothing else. Some of them can't be explained by the usual suspects. Bodies found with no signs of violence, toddlers found miles from where there were, where grown men with experience have difficulty getting to. Etc, etc. Vid posted page or so back (#37), all hunters, all armed...
Tracks aren’t always easy or very evident in the forest. Tracking animals isn’t always a “follow the path”, but more of a “search for the next marker”, so I can believe not seeing any sign for an animal attack (especially combined with weather). I’ve also been stalked by a mountain lion, and it was only by the grace of God that I saw it in time.
Bodies with no violence is also not surprising. Nature is harsh and often unpredictable. There is a reason for the “3 hours” without shelter maxim.
I’ve heard the toddle case. I’ve also seen kids do crazy stuff, and easily get to places I have difficulty reaching (especially in rocky areas). There is something to be said for being small and light. Based on the distance involved in the case, I’d probably wager on abduction, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he just walked.
We have “experienced” people in Utah that die in the wilderness frequently. There is a very high Dunning-Kruger effect among outdoorsmen in general. Hunters fall to this very easily. They have a gun and a sense of security that is very much false. Combine this with something else many, many hunters do but won’t admit to - drink - and you have a recipe for disaster.
The other thing that Paulides loves to tout is missing clothing. This one is easily explained by hypothermia. Most of the injuries in the Dyatlov Pass incident are explained by hypothermia, also.
I want to believe, but most of the time there is a far simpler explanation. For example Paulides claims that many people who go missing wear bright colors. That’s because, in general, most people wear bright colors, even when they go on the family hike.
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I hunt alone, but can run into civilization within a day in any direction.
I would not go out in the wilderness by myself.
^Does hypothermia really explain missing clothing?
I hunt alone, but can run into civilization within a day in any direction.
I would not go out in the wilderness by myself.
^Does hypothermia really explain missing clothing?
https://www.livescience.com/41730-hypothermia-terminal-burrowing-paradoxical-undressing.html
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Moose-Knuckle
11-14-18, 04:38
If you gents are not up on Dulce, NM and all that goes along with that place . . . you'll get tons of stories via a simple search. Key in on what the Jicarilla Apache have to say.
Of all the research and investigations done, retired NMSP Gabe Valdez has the most hard evidence and it all points to .gov . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iWhRMH_NCg
If you gents are not up on Dulce, NM and all that goes along with that place . . . you'll get tons of stories via a simple search. Key in on what the Jicarilla Apache have to say.
Of all the research and investigations done, retired NMSP Gabe Valdez has the most hard evidence and it all points to .gov . . .
I actually have followed this quite closely. I have some horse customers at the Jicarilla Reservation and have been to Dulce countless times. There's more to this however, and I'll share a little with you. The UFO observations have been seen for years, but credible ones can't be traced to any time prior to the mid 1960's. On the western edge of the Jicarilla in the Carson National Forest, the US government detonated an underground nuclear device in December 1967, code named Project Gasbuggy - experimental fracking. Look it up. Over the years there have been reports of ground water contamination and birth defects of rural Jicarilla Apache residents, who have conveniently dropped off the face of the earth. The stories get shut down fast. Other stories relate a "The Hills have Eyes" type of situation with mental retardation of back-country residents. You hear these things from the Apache families themselves, but it never gets any traction with the authorities.
BuzzinSATX
11-14-18, 09:43
There is a Navajo woman, Brenda Harris, who lives near Fruitland NM. She is involved in a group called the NM Shadow Seekers (trying to paste the Google link below):
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=u0HsW-S_K5K2tQWrp7TQDw&ins=false&q=navajo+shadow+seekers+new+mexico&oq=navajo+shadow+seekers+new+mexico&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.12...0.0..1166...0.0..0.0.0.......1.bPqTt4Syf2A
Interesting article from Durango Heald: https://www.google.com/amp/s/durangoherald.com/amp/62254-bigfoot-might-lurk-in-nearby-bush
There is a Navajo woman, Brenda Harris, who lives near Fruitland NM. She is involved in a group called the NM Shadow Seekers (trying to paste the Google link below):
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=u0HsW-S_K5K2tQWrp7TQDw&ins=false&q=navajo+shadow+seekers+new+mexico&oq=navajo+shadow+seekers+new+mexico&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.12...0.0..1166...0.0..0.0.0.......1.bPqTt4Syf2A
Interesting article from Durango Heald: https://www.google.com/amp/s/durangoherald.com/amp/62254-bigfoot-might-lurk-in-nearby-bush
I buy my yearly loads of hay from the Navajo Agricultural Products Industry farms over in the Four Corners area. I also have a Navajo wrangler who works for me when he's not on the rodeo circuit. Navajos are still believers in Skin Walkers, Ghost Sickness and all kinds of weird stuff. I have lots of Navajo friends as I went to college with them at the University of Arizona. On the Arizona side near Monument Valley, there's a little settlement called Oljato. Just south of there is the remains of an open pit uranium mine which has been covered over. There are a few families in the vicinity of that place who have experienced all kinds of birth defects. One family are the Holigans. Every last one of them has been born with some kind of defect, including retardation, cleft palates, etc. Screwed up bunch, but they are the collateral damage from the Cold War need for uranium.
I buy my yearly loads of hay from the Navajo Agricultural Products Industry farms over in the Four Corners area. I also have a Navajo wrangler who works for me when he's not on the rodeo circuit. Navajos are still believers in Skin Walkers, Ghost Sickness and all kinds of weird stuff. I have lots of Navajo friends as I went to college with them at the University of Arizona. On the Arizona side near Monument Valley, there's a little settlement called Oljato. Just south of there is the remains of an open pit uranium mine which has been covered over. There are a few families in the vicinity of that place who have experienced all kinds of birth defects. One family are the Holigans. Every last one of them has been born with some kind of defect, including retardation, cleft palates, etc. Screwed up bunch, but they are the collateral damage from the Cold War need for uranium.
Hell, you may want to Geiger counter and see what the background radiation is around that area. Have they ever been checked for tissue levels of uranium and or other known toxic metals that can form those mines?
BuzzinSATX
11-14-18, 11:09
I buy my yearly loads of hay from the Navajo Agricultural Products Industry farms over in the Four Corners area. I also have a Navajo wrangler who works for me when he's not on the rodeo circuit. Navajos are still believers in Skin Walkers, Ghost Sickness and all kinds of weird stuff. I have lots of Navajo friends as I went to college with them at the University of Arizona. On the Arizona side near Monument Valley, there's a little settlement called Oljato. Just south of there is the remains of an open pit uranium mine which has been covered over. There are a few families in the vicinity of that place who have experienced all kinds of birth defects. One family are the Holigans. Every last one of them has been born with some kind of defect, including retardation, cleft palates, etc. Screwed up bunch, but they are the collateral damage from the Cold War need for uranium.
Wow...we got some serious issues in our .gov closets!
Hell, you may want to Geiger counter and see what the background radiation is around that area. Have they ever been checked for tissue levels of uranium and or other known toxic metals that can form those mines?
A lot of the uranium mining in Arizona and Utah were done in very rural areas. Some of the first dirt roads were carved into the landscape for that industry. The Department of Energy has done a good job of covering over these locations, but I don't think it's perfect. On the Navajo Reservation, there are no incorporated towns, just places that are part of the Bureau of Indian Affairs Agency system. One place in NW New Mexico is called Shiprock (named after a local volcanic peak). It also has a covered uranium site with Navajo housing built up right next to it. It must be covered well because no evidence of illnesses from it.
Going back to Moose-Knuckle's post about the Dulce area and UFO's, I honestly believe the US Government has used the vast open areas of the Navajo and other Four Corners State reservations to conduct testing operations. I personally saw something years back (2000) that gave me pause. On the eastern side of the Navajo Reservation near a community called Rock Point, Arizona, I was traveling with a friend around 2am north of that community. We were heading north on US 191 towards US 160 when we saw an unusual white light in the sky to the west moving around. We stopped, got out of the truck and watched it for a while. I thought it was a helicopter with an unusual bright white landing beam or spot light. It was moving from north to south then back to the north again. The funny thing was that the changes in direction were sudden and abrupt. No slowing down. It then moved in a straight line east in our direction getting larger, then retreated back to the west and then an abrupt change to the north and zipped off. We both described the movement like the old Pong video game, with the "ball" bouncing back and forth via sudden movement direction changes. To this day we still talk about this, and I am totally lost for an explanation to what we saw.
A lot of the uranium mining in Arizona and Utah were done in very rural areas. Some of the first dirt roads were carved into the landscape for that industry. The Department of Energy has done a good job of covering over these locations, but I don't think it's perfect. On the Navajo Reservation, there are no incorporated towns, just places that are part of the Bureau of Indian Affairs Agency system. One place in NW New Mexico is called Shiprock (named after a local volcanic peak). It also has a covered uranium site with Navajo housing built up right next to it. It must be covered well because no evidence of illnesses from it.
Going back to Moose-Knuckle's post about the Dulce area and UFO's, I honestly believe the US Government has used the vast open areas of the Navajo and other Four Corners State reservations to conduct testing operations. I personally saw something years back (2000) that gave me pause. On the eastern side of the Navajo Reservation near a community called Rock Point, Arizona, I was traveling with a friend around 2am north of that community. We were heading north on US 191 towards US 160 when we saw an unusual white light in the sky to the west moving around. We stopped, got out of the truck and watched it for a while. I thought it was a helicopter with an unusual bright white landing beam or spot light. It was moving from north to south then back to the north again. The funny thing was that the changes in direction were sudden and abrupt. No slowing down. It then moved in a straight line east in our direction getting larger, then retreated back to the west and then an abrupt change to the north and zipped off. We both described the movement like the old Pong video game, with the "ball" bouncing back and forth via sudden movement direction changes. To this day we still talk about this, and I am totally lost for an explanation to what we saw.
And what do you know about how helicopters should behave in flight? Oh wait....:cool:
I think it's well established there's things in our airspace that are not standard aircraft we know of. What it/they are, I can't say, but far too many people like yourself have seen and or directly interacted with, confirmed via hard radar, etc, these things to to deny them.
One place in NW New Mexico is called Shiprock (named after a local volcanic peak). It also has a covered uranium site with Navajo housing built up right next to it. It must be covered well because no evidence of illnesses from it.
I was born and raised in Gallup. I was 2 when the dam holding the tailings pond @ United Nuclear in Shiprock ruptured and spilled 93 million gallons of uranium contaminated water into the Puerco. Good times! I also spent 5 yrs at NMIMT breathing DU dust from the EMRTC range.
I know quite a few people in Gallup with various illnesses, but I'm not sure any of it can be traced to the spill. It'll consider it to be a minor miracle if I don't eventually die of cancer, though.
I was born and raised in Gallup. I was 2 when the dam holding the tailings pond @ United Nuclear in Shiprock ruptured and spilled 93 million gallons of uranium contaminated water into the Puerco. Good times! I also spent 5 yrs at NMIMT breathing DU dust from the EMRTC range.
I know quite a few people in Gallup with various illnesses, but I'm not sure any of it can be traced to the spill. It'll consider it to be a minor miracle if I don't eventually die of cancer, though.
Gallup, New Mexico, the town with grocery stores owned by Italian immigrants. I too know people there, including some of the people who did radio for years. Used to be a radio personality named Bob Barnett and his son, Rick Barnett, was in the media. Same with Salvatore "Sammy C" Chioda, another Italian in that town. Gallup is an interesting town with an interesting interaction between the Navajo and Anglos.
PatrioticDisorder
11-14-18, 18:08
https://youtu.be/sef4YT2s6i4
Sort of a related topic, this oumuamua looks pretty damn suspicious for me as being an alien probe. That is a bit alarming, if there are other technologically advanced civilizations out there I doubt they are tofu eating hippies. They would likely only be interested in natural resources for their own benefit. This probe is reported to be less than 1mm thin but very wide, changing speeds and behaving in odd ways, it’s clearly not something natural.
That makes me wonder how long it will take for the probe to relay data back to its home, how long it would take for that civilization to analyze, prepare an attack and finally reach earth? These are questions I believe people in positions of power need to be asking, perhaps that is why we are getting a space force?
WickedWillis
11-14-18, 18:18
https://youtu.be/sef4YT2s6i4
Sorta of on a related topic, this oumuamua looks pretty damn suspicious for me as being an alien probe. That is a bit alarming, if there are other technologically advanced civilizations out there I doubt they are tofu eating hippies. They would likely only be interested in natural resources for their own benefit. This probe is reported to be less than 1mm thin but very wide, changing speeds and behaving in odd ways, it’s clearly not something natural.
That makes me wonder how long it will take for the probe to relay data back to its home, how long it would take for that civilization to analyze, prepare an attack and finally reach earth? These are questions I believe people in positions of power need to be asking, perhaps that is why we are getting a space force?
I too feel like something caused us to get into the Space Force game. It seemed very sudden when it happened. That coupled with NASA no longer doing shuttle missions starting in the Obama era makes me think something is up.
There is no way from everything I have seen, that the Oumuamua is just another space rock.
Moose-Knuckle
11-15-18, 18:36
I actually have followed this quite closely. I have some horse customers at the Jicarilla Reservation and have been to Dulce countless times. There's more to this however, and I'll share a little with you. The UFO observations have been seen for years, but credible ones can't be traced to any time prior to the mid 1960's. On the western edge of the Jicarilla in the Carson National Forest, the US government detonated an underground nuclear device in December 1967, code named Project Gasbuggy - experimental fracking. Look it up. Over the years there have been reports of ground water contamination and birth defects of rural Jicarilla Apache residents, who have conveniently dropped off the face of the earth. The stories get shut down fast. Other stories relate a "The Hills have Eyes" type of situation with mental retardation of back-country residents. You hear these things from the Apache families themselves, but it never gets any traction with the authorities.
In the video I embedded, they talk about Operation Gasbuggy.
The gentleman featured in that video is retired NMSP for that area who conducted the investigation for the state of NM into the cattle mutilations. He set up a hide (think sniper's hide) on the mesa and has photographic evidence of black helicopters coming and going from sites where cattle mutilations were occurring. At crime scenes he found discarded chem lights, M17 gas masks, and an electronic transmitter of some sort that he believed was used to track tagged/targeted cattle.
Now the question begs to be asked was a government program behind the cattle mutilations or did they arrive on site after the fact to investigate / monitor what was going on?
A lot of the uranium mining in Arizona and Utah were done in very rural areas. Some of the first dirt roads were carved into the landscape for that industry. The Department of Energy has done a good job of covering over these locations, but I don't think it's perfect. On the Navajo Reservation, there are no incorporated towns, just places that are part of the Bureau of Indian Affairs Agency system. One place in NW New Mexico is called Shiprock (named after a local volcanic peak). It also has a covered uranium site with Navajo housing built up right next to it. It must be covered well because no evidence of illnesses from it.
Another aspect that adds to the cloak and dagger of this subject matter, the .gov has done things on tribal lands that they cannot divulge and or have covered up.
Going back to Moose-Knuckle's post about the Dulce area and UFO's, I honestly believe the US Government has used the vast open areas of the Navajo and other Four Corners State reservations to conduct testing operations. I personally saw something years back (2000) that gave me pause. On the eastern side of the Navajo Reservation near a community called Rock Point, Arizona, I was traveling with a friend around 2am north of that community. We were heading north on US 191 towards US 160 when we saw an unusual white light in the sky to the west moving around. We stopped, got out of the truck and watched it for a while. I thought it was a helicopter with an unusual bright white landing beam or spot light. It was moving from north to south then back to the north again. The funny thing was that the changes in direction were sudden and abrupt. No slowing down. It then moved in a straight line east in our direction getting larger, then retreated back to the west and then an abrupt change to the north and zipped off. We both described the movement like the old Pong video game, with the "ball" bouncing back and forth via sudden movement direction changes. To this day we still talk about this, and I am totally lost for an explanation to what we saw.
Coming from a retired 160th SOAR pilot no less, this is profound to say the least. A lot of people write-off anyone that talk about this stuff as kooks, tin-foil hat, etc. but the reality is there are metric shit ton of subject matter experts with backgrounds in aviation, areospace, defense, etc. that have seen things that cannot be dismissed via our known knowledge of the laws of physics.
Moose-Knuckle
11-15-18, 18:41
https://youtu.be/sef4YT2s6i4
Sort of a related topic, this oumuamua looks pretty damn suspicious for me as being an alien probe. That is a bit alarming, if there are other technologically advanced civilizations out there I doubt they are tofu eating hippies. They would likely only be interested in natural resources for their own benefit. This probe is reported to be less than 1mm thin but very wide, changing speeds and behaving in odd ways, it’s clearly not something natural.
That makes me wonder how long it will take for the probe to relay data back to its home, how long it would take for that civilization to analyze, prepare an attack and finally reach earth? These are questions I believe people in positions of power need to be asking, perhaps that is why we are getting a space force?
If you want to go down this rabbit hole, a good jumping on point is Operation Solar Warden.
Outlander Systems
11-15-18, 18:44
Check out Shiva Star and MARAUDER.
If you want to go down this rabbit hole, a good jumping on point is Operation Solar Warden.
Coming from a retired 160th SOAR pilot no less, this is profound to say the least. A lot of people write-off anyone that talk about this stuff as kooks, tin-foil hat, etc. but the reality is there are metric shit ton of subject matter experts with backgrounds in aviation, areospace, defense, etc. that have seen things that cannot be dismissed via our known knowledge of the laws of physics.
The recent release of video shot by Navy pilots a decade ago of the "Tic-Tac" that was at 60,000 feet, then dropped to sea level in a second or two then hovered defies any manned vehicle imaginable, and no heat signature of any kind. The speed described with the "Tic-Tac" would be similar to the white light I saw in 2000 on the Navajo Reservation, but we couldn't discern any distinctive shape.
The Navajo Reservation has been a disconnected location for years, with limited utilities and infrastructure, with only 200,000 inhabitants in a area of 24,700 square miles, 16.2 million acres - an area the size of West Virginia. In the late 80's the B1 Bomber was flying nap of the earth low altitude passes over a place called the Greasewood Flats. I was home on leave and went on a camping trip there, and had an early morning flyover my campsite. If you don't want a sophisticated population to see what you're doing, do operations over the Navajo Nation.
I have no idea why the government would want to mutilate cattle? I wonder if perhaps there's more here than just the government, but interaction at the highest level between humans and some other beings?
https://youtu.be/sef4YT2s6i4
Sort of a related topic, this oumuamua looks pretty damn suspicious for me as being an alien probe. That is a bit alarming, if there are other technologically advanced civilizations out there I doubt they are tofu eating hippies. They would likely only be interested in natural resources for their own benefit. This probe is reported to be less than 1mm thin but very wide, changing speeds and behaving in odd ways, it’s clearly not something natural.
That makes me wonder how long it will take for the probe to relay data back to its home, how long it would take for that civilization to analyze, prepare an attack and finally reach earth? These are questions I believe people in positions of power need to be asking, perhaps that is why we are getting a space force?
The NASA reported dimensions are 328 ft–3,281 ft × 115 ft–548 ft × 115 ft–548 ft.
There is nothing unnatural about it's speed changes.
"but has since undergone non-gravitational acceleration, potentially consistent with a push from solar radiation pressure"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua
And if indeed it is some kind of solar sail sent as a probe, the civilization that sent it could have died out millions of years ago. But that's a really big IF and there is no real indication that this is anything other than an unusually shaped astronomical object.
This happened about 30 miles from where I live. I heard about this back in the 1970's but thought it had ceased. Cultists or something similar? I really don't buy the UFO angle.
"A cow and a bull were both killed overnight. An ear cut off. A section of hide detached. The scrotum and penis carefully removed. The vaginal cavity gone. The blood drained.
No discernible tracks were found near the carcasses, which were lying near an infrequently traveled road. Little blood was found on the ground and the cow was wedged up into a tree as if trying to escape from something.
In his decades of living in the scrubby pinyon-juniper forests north of Williams, the 66-year-old Mahan has raised horses and small herds of cattle and seen animals killed by predators such as mountain lions and coyotes. He has witnessed scavengers such as ravens and vultures picking at carrion, but never has he witnessed the deliberate dismemberment he saw last week."
https://www.williamsnews.com/news/2018/sep/18/cattle-mutilations-baffle-williams-rancher/
The investigator noticed that the cuts were precise... Too, the animals killed- no blood sign. Now the story mentioned drugs, but what were they, and would they still be detectable after a week+? No foot steps, human or animal, near the animal carcasses... Perhaps taken by helicopter, butchered, then dropped by helicopter, where animals were eventually found? So many similarities to what was
known to be encountered during time from late 1960's on to today... Would love to see a detailed map of all discoveries, with annotations as to dates, and weather patterns, as well as any applicable radar records... If no such information is available, a coverup would be a reasonable speculation... Still watching the skies- as something wicked may be one day coming our way...
One&Done
The recent release of video shot by Navy pilots a decade ago of the "Tic-Tac" that was at 60,000 feet, then dropped to sea level in a second or two then hovered defies any manned vehicle imaginable, and no heat signature of any kind. The speed described with the "Tic-Tac" would be similar to the white light I saw in 2000 on the Navajo Reservation, but we couldn't discern any distinctive shape.
The Navajo Reservation has been a disconnected location for years, with limited utilities and infrastructure, with only 200,000 inhabitants in a area of 24,700 square miles, 16.2 million acres - an area the size of West Virginia. In the late 80's the B1 Bomber was flying nap of the earth low altitude passes over a place called the Greasewood Flats. I was home on leave and went on a camping trip there, and had an early morning flyover my campsite. If you don't want a sophisticated population to see what you're doing, do operations over the Navajo Nation.
I have no idea why the government would want to mutilate cattle? I wonder if perhaps there's more here than just the government, but interaction at the highest level between humans and some other beings?
But that's the thing, if they wanted to mutilate cattle for testing of some kind they'd simply have cattle. Why do that to people's cattle and draw attention to it? The gubment angle does not really add up in my view.
But that's the thing, if they wanted to mutilate cattle for testing of some kind they'd simply have cattle. Why do that to people's cattle and draw attention to it? The gubment angle does not really add up in my view.
Money? This way .gov does not have to feed them, raise them and then dispose of them.
Does anyone remember the 1982 movie “Endangered Species” with Robert Urich? Kind of a neat old thriller about cattle mutilations.
Money? This way .gov does not have to feed them, raise them and then dispose of them.
In the grand scheme of things, keeping cattle for experiments is dirt cheap to the mil and you'd think being exposed at some point the far larger issue to whom is doing it if mil/gov. To me, it just does not add up that it's gov.
Well- that explains everything.
LMFAO, outstanding
Gallup, New Mexico, the town with grocery stores owned by Italian immigrants. I too know people there, including some of the people who did radio for years. Used to be a radio personality named Bob Barnett and his son, Rick Barnett, was in the media. Same with Salvatore "Sammy C" Chioda, another Italian in that town. Gallup is an interesting town with an interesting interaction between the Navajo and Anglos.
Yup..."Interesting" is a good description for Gallup. Many of the immigrants came there to work in the mining camps, and stayed to do business with the Navajo. That's how my great grandparents ended up there. My parents and grandfather know the Barnetts and Sammy C well, but I only know them by name and reputation.
Since this is a bit of a derail, I'll add a "not aliens, but maybe something supernatural" Tale from the Rez:
When I was in my early teens, my parents took a road trip somewhere and left us kids at Grandmas. On the way home, they were driving back through the rez on some super desolate two-lane road in the middle of bumble**** nowhere. Anyway, it's around midnight and my mom notices something off to the side of the road. She said it looked like a wolf but much bigger and that it seemed to be chasing after the car. A moment later it was gone.
So they make it back home safely, but all sorts of random shit starts going wrong. Kids get sick, cars keep breaking down, all sorts of plumbing issues with the house, trouble at my dads work. Just a crazy bunch of bad luck.
So my mom is complaining at work one day about this crazy stretch of bad luck to one of her Navajo co-workers and she mentioned that it started happening right after she saw the big wolf creature that night. The lady says "What wolf creature?" "Oh we were driving home through the rez in the middle of the night a few months ago and I saw this wolf thing, but big like the size of a man and it had red eyes and it looked like it was chasing after the car for a second"
The lady goes white and says "Oh god...That was a Skinwalker! The bad luck is because you have been cursed!" She goes on to say that the only way to make this better is to do a blessing ceremony at our house. So she arranges to have a Medicine Woman from her clan come over and do a whole ceremony. She spent the afternoon blessing everyone and everything with chants, smoke, and corn pollen. She also left several arrow heads around the house for spiritual protection.
After that, things returned to normal. Just like it came, the bad luck was gone. Made mom a believer and she was always nervous about being on the rez after dark after that.
MountainRaven
11-16-18, 14:57
In the grand scheme of things, keeping cattle for experiments is dirt cheap to the mil and you'd think being exposed at some point the far larger issue to whom is doing it if mil/gov. To me, it just does not add up that it's gov.
I would suspect that it would be cheaper for the government to keep and care for cattle than to fly helicopters in at dead of night to infiltrate a team of specialists to cut up the cattle and then exfiltrate via the same helicopter.
For that matter, if the mutilations are being done by an extraterrestrial entity, why wouldn't they just abduct a breeding population of cattle? Or, if they're that technologically advanced - that they can bridge the space between stars - why not take genetic samples and grow their own?
Only thing that might make sense to me, is if someone or something is interested in seeing how cattle are effected by GMO corn, when they're fed GMO corn (or other lab-modified food). But that's assuming that they're corn-fed (or corn-fed, grass-finished) beefs and not grass-fed. Or maybe how radioactive fallout from the atomic bombs is deteriorating in living beings over time... but I wouldn't think that would need killing and mutilating said cattle.
Money? This way .gov does not have to feed them, raise them and then dispose of them.
Too much work and risk of discovery. They could buy their own livestock and mutilate to their hearts content, without the fuel for rotorcraft, manpower or flying over some podunk pasture in the middle of nowhere at midnight, running the risk of 30-30 rounds incoming from a pissed off cowboy.
I honestly think it's more than government experiments on the stupidest mammal God ever created. Maybe Uncle Sam has some E.T.'s on the payroll and every once in a while they go rogue and have this thing for bovine parts? They hop in their supersonic, gravity-defying "Tic Tac" and get their jollies by molesting four-legged beasts.
BuzzinSATX
11-16-18, 16:42
But that's the thing, if they wanted to mutilate cattle for testing of some kind they'd simply have cattle. Why do that to people's cattle and draw attention to it? The gubment angle does not really add up in my view.
I agree. Both .gov and .com have all kinds of facilities for all manner of animal testing. Makes no sense to go to cost of experiments on cattle and then fly them out to middle of nowhere to dump them.
Moose-Knuckle
11-16-18, 18:55
Check out Shiva Star and MARAUDER.
They read like energy weapons for a space fleet.
The recent release of video shot by Navy pilots a decade ago of the "Tic-Tac" that was at 60,000 feet, then dropped to sea level in a second or two then hovered defies any manned vehicle imaginable, and no heat signature of any kind. The speed described with the "Tic-Tac" would be similar to the white light I saw in 2000 on the Navajo Reservation, but we couldn't discern any distinctive shape.
The Tic-Tac or what is commonly referred to as "cigar shaped" craft first were noted in a wood cut found in Nurnberg Germany dating from 1561. The artwork is a depiction of eye witness accounts of multiple cigar shaped craft engaged in aerial warfare above their village.
Also of note, Gary McKinnion a Scottish hacker who at the time committed the biggest military computer hack of all time, penetrated 97 DoD, NASA, Space Command, and Johnson Space Center computers and found files on a secret US manned-flight space program (Solar Warden) that had been operational since the 80's. The program included off world non-terrestrial officers and eight large tubular (Tic-Tac / cigar) "motherships" with capability to carry fifty smaller crafts, presumably the TR-3B's (the black triangle "UFOs" that have been reported all over CONUS).
The Navajo Reservation has been a disconnected location for years, with limited utilities and infrastructure, with only 200,000 inhabitants in a area of 24,700 square miles, 16.2 million acres - an area the size of West Virginia. In the late 80's the B1 Bomber was flying nap of the earth low altitude passes over a place called the Greasewood Flats. I was home on leave and went on a camping trip there, and had an early morning flyover my campsite. If you don't want a sophisticated population to see what you're doing, do operations over the Navajo Nation.
I bet that was one hell of a wake-up call!
I have no idea why the government would want to mutilate cattle? I wonder if perhaps there's more here than just the government, but interaction at the highest level between humans and some other beings?
That is my line of thought as well, if it is .gov they were sloppy leaving the carcasses. Perhaps the .gov personnel were there investigating UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) / UFO incursions.
Being local to the region I'm sure you've heard the rumors of the joint ET/.gov underground base on the Archuleta Mesa there in Dulce. There are multiple interviews of residents on the reservation and former government contractors that claim their is a lab there where both parties have an agreement where they carry out experiments on each other's species.
The only thing I know is the way in which those cattle had been vivisected, the remote locations, the rough terrain, no roads, no trails, the lack of sign and blood of the animals it sure was not some satanists hacking up a steer or college kids out on a thrill kill. These have all the hallmarks of scientific dissection and no one can figure out the exact method of tissue/organ removal.
Moose-Knuckle
11-16-18, 19:09
But that's the thing, if they wanted to mutilate cattle for testing of some kind they'd simply have cattle. Why do that to people's cattle and draw attention to it? The gubment angle does not really add up in my view.
The reason the government is part of this equation is the photographic evidence of black helos and the physical evidence collected by the NMSP at the crime scenes to include M17 gas masks, chem lights, and electronic equipment. This IMHO does not implicate them in the crimes but it does suggest that they were at the sites.
The government has a lab, DHS S&T Office of National Laboratories (ONL) Plum Island Animal Disease Center (PIADC) for doing whatever they want to cattle and or anything else they want on Plumb island New York. If you want some interesting reading, do a search for various unidentifiable animal and humanoid bodies that wash up on shore from time to time at Montauk Point across the sound from Plumb island.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXd4DFjNcM4
In the grand scheme of things, keeping cattle for experiments is dirt cheap to the mil and you'd think being exposed at some point the far larger issue to whom is doing it if mil/gov. To me, it just does not add up that it's gov.
One theory is that the .gov was doing it as a PSYOP, FOIA releases from the CIA reveal that during the Cold War the CIA utilized the UFO/UAP phenomena as smoke screens for top-secret aircraft among other things (think U2, Oxcart, etc.).
Moose-Knuckle
11-16-18, 19:21
Yup..."Interesting" is a good description for Gallup. Many of the immigrants came there to work in the mining camps, and stayed to do business with the Navajo. That's how my great grandparents ended up there. My parents and grandfather know the Barnetts and Sammy C well, but I only know them by name and reputation.
Since this is a bit of a derail, I'll add a "not aliens, but maybe something supernatural" Tale from the Rez:
When I was in my early teens, my parents took a road trip somewhere and left us kids at Grandmas. On the way home, they were driving back through the rez on some super desolate two-lane road in the middle of bumble**** nowhere. Anyway, it's around midnight and my mom notices something off to the side of the road. She said it looked like a wolf but much bigger and that it seemed to be chasing after the car. A moment later it was gone.
So they make it back home safely, but all sorts of random shit starts going wrong. Kids get sick, cars keep breaking down, all sorts of plumbing issues with the house, trouble at my dads work. Just a crazy bunch of bad luck.
So my mom is complaining at work one day about this crazy stretch of bad luck to one of her Navajo co-workers and she mentioned that it started happening right after she saw the big wolf creature that night. The lady says "What wolf creature?" "Oh we were driving home through the rez in the middle of the night a few months ago and I saw this wolf thing, but big like the size of a man and it had red eyes and it looked like it was chasing after the car for a second"
The lady goes white and says "Oh god...That was a Skinwalker! The bad luck is because you have been cursed!" She goes on to say that the only way to make this better is to do a blessing ceremony at our house. So she arranges to have a Medicine Woman from her clan come over and do a whole ceremony. She spent the afternoon blessing everyone and everything with chants, smoke, and corn pollen. She also left several arrow heads around the house for spiritual protection.
After that, things returned to normal. Just like it came, the bad luck was gone. Made mom a believer and she was always nervous about being on the rez after dark after that.
Thanks for sharing your families ordeal. Wow, talk about some good medicine.
There is a lot of things out there that we just can't explain away.
Money? This way .gov does not have to feed them, raise them and then dispose of them.
And risk the chance of security being broken, for the sake of minimum expense? Nope... Doesn't fly...
One&Done
Also of note, Gary McKinnion a Scottish hacker who at the time committed the biggest military computer hack of all time, penetrated 97 DoD, NASA, Space Command, and Johnson Space Center computers and found files on a secret US manned-flight space program (Solar Warden) that had been operational since the 80's. The program included off world non-terrestrial officers and eight large tubular (Tic-Tac / cigar) "motherships" with capability to carry fifty smaller crafts, presumably the TR-3B's (the black triangle "UFOs" that have been reported all over CONUS).
Yeah, cause that guy sounds trustworthy and without agenda.
"US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year ... I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels ..."
After the September 11 attacks in 2001, he deleted weapons logs at the Earle Naval Weapons Station, rendering its network of 300 computers inoperable and paralyzing munitions supply deliveries for the US Navy's Atlantic Fleet. McKinnon was also accused of copying data, account files and passwords onto his own computer. US authorities stated the cost of tracking and correcting the problems he caused was over $700,000.
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-18, 04:46
Yeah, cause that guy sounds trustworthy and without agenda.
"US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year ... I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels ..."
After the September 11 attacks in 2001, he deleted weapons logs at the Earle Naval Weapons Station, rendering its network of 300 computers inoperable and paralyzing munitions supply deliveries for the US Navy's Atlantic Fleet. McKinnon was also accused of copying data, account files and passwords onto his own computer. US authorities stated the cost of tracking and correcting the problems he caused was over $700,000.
He was snatched up by the UK's NHTCU for the US but his extradition has been blocked by the Home Secretary citing possible human rights violations. He breached systems, he's been formerly charged, this is fact. If what he found was real, a controlled leak, disinformation, et al. who knows? His political leanings do not prove nor disprove anything one way or another.
He was snatched up by the UK's NHTCU for the US but his extradition has been blocked by the Home Secretary citing possible human rights violations. He breached systems, he's been formerly charged, this is fact. If what he found was real, a controlled leak, disinformation, et al. who knows? His political leanings do not prove nor disprove anything one way or another.
Yet for all his skills, he forgot to take a screen cap of the really amazing UFO stuff so we just have to accept his word. He's in deep doo doo for deliberately attacking US military systems and the "I was looking for UFO stuff and found it" is all deception and deflection.
Yet for all his skills, he forgot to take a screen cap of the really amazing UFO stuff so we just have to accept his word. He's in deep doo doo for deliberately attacking US military systems and the "I was looking for UFO stuff and found it" is all deception and deflection.
I've always wondered about those instances myself. IF the different hackers/leakers/what-not's really found evidence in the computer systems why is it none of them have ever taken/posted screen shots? Granted, most people in general would probably claim the screens shots were photo-shopped but still makes me wonder.
If you remove the UFO element from the equation, then what becomes the alternative(s)? Cultists (or copycats thereof) doing this over the span of at least 50 years seems increasingly implausible.
If you remove the UFO element from the equation, then what becomes the alternative(s)? Cultists (or copycats thereof) doing this over the span of at least 50 years seems increasingly implausible.
Yup. Occam's razor and all that. The why/who of it still a mystery, but it seems gov. and cults can be all but ruled out at this point.
Yup. Occam's razor and all that. The why/who of it still a mystery, but it seems gov. and cults can be all but ruled out at this point.
Cattle mutilations go back to at least 1606, but still doesn't mean it's aliens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_mutilation
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