View Full Version : Compare HK LEM trigger to Glock with minus connector and NY1 spring?
SomeOtherGuy
11-13-18, 11:16
I'm looking for comparisons from anyone who has used both of these setups. To be clear:
1) An HK P30 or other recent HK pistol with the LEM trigger system. P30 v2 would be ideal.
2) A gen2-3 Glock with standard trigger bar, a 3.5lb or Glock "-" connector, and the Glock NY1 spring.
I haven't used the LEM but understand the concept. I've used a Glock with the 3.5lb connector and standard spring extensively and like it. Based on pull weights and descriptions, it sounds like the LEM v2 should be similar in weight and feel to a 3.5lb or Glock "-" connector, and the Glock NY1 spring. Anyone?
And for added kicks, if anyone has used one of those and also a Kahr (factory stock), I'd be interested in that comparison too. I have dry fired a Kahr but not live fired one.
I'm looking for comparisons from anyone who has used both of these setups. To be clear:
1) An HK P30 or other recent HK pistol with the LEM trigger system. P30 v2 would be ideal.
2) A gen2-3 Glock with standard trigger bar, a 3.5lb or Glock "-" connector, and the Glock NY1 spring.
I haven't used the LEM but understand the concept. I've used a Glock with the 3.5lb connector and standard spring extensively and like it. Based on pull weights and descriptions, it sounds like the LEM v2 should be similar in weight and feel to a 3.5lb or Glock "-" connector, and the Glock NY1 spring. Anyone?
And for added kicks, if anyone has used one of those and also a Kahr (factory stock), I'd be interested in that comparison too. I have dry fired a Kahr but not live fired one.
I'll tell you one thing, make sure you try the LEM before you buy it. I absolutely HATE the LEM trigger.
you cant compare HK LEM to a Glock with - connector. Ive shot a Gen 4 glock with a - connector quite a bit.
two COMPLETELY different triggers.
Both are nice triggers IMO. I like LEM over DA/SA on HK's(I have 4, 3 have LEM, the other is an Expert with a great DA/SA match trigger), but trying to compare any hammer gun trigger to any striker gun trigger is apples to oranges.
Light LEM is the only acceptable version IMO.
Its more like a long 2-stage trigger. Long effortless take up first @2lbs but is effortlessly, then the wall & break around 2.5lbs. Reset back to the break only.
Its not hard to shoot, but its unlike a glock trigger or any other striker gun.
I'll tell you one thing, make sure you try the LEM before you buy it. I absolutely HATE the LEM trigger.
+1, I too could not get used to it but the Glock trigger without the NY1 spring works well for me.
I have used a Gen3 Glock 19 with (-) connector and NY-1 spring. I really liked this combination for the safety factor of the heavier trigger but after the advent of the Tau SCD or Gadget I went back to the standard trigger spring.
I am now transitioning to a P2000sk V2 (heavy LEM). The trigger is completely different from the Glock trigger. I actually like it better than the Glock trigger but I think it is a combination of mechanics with the grip and the trigger. The V2 trigger is very light and smooth and stiffens up just a bit before the shot breaks. Its a long trigger pull but very smooth and pleasant for me.
The Glock with (-) connector and NY-1 is a heavier, shorter trigger pull that rolls nicely and is generally the same weight throughout the pull.
Very different triggers but I am really liking the LEM V2. I can't imagine the lighter trigger pull of the V1. I've heard that the V1 reset is almost indiscernible. The V2 has a heavier trigger return spring that provides a more positive reset.
It’s apples to alligators, like has been said. I have the light LEM on my P30, I added the reduced reset screw to trigger and I like it a lot. But it takes a while to get accustomed to firing.
Again, go shoot someone’s before buying. At least dry fire it. It’s not a Gunbroker purchase.
PB
Have shot both and they are not close at all. I prefer the LEM. I am using a 4.1 with TLG spring weights for LEM. The Glock (gen 3, NY1, factory - connector, 5 lb striker spring) is noticably heavier than the LEM, stacks worse than the LEM, and the break is...weird.
All that being said, my performance is about the same with both once warmed up and readjusted to the Glock grip angle.
Standard and Heavy LEM suck donkey ballz, like a crappy DAO that has a short reset option. I shot my P2000SK with it one time before converting it and my other HKs to Light LEM.
That said I shoot and carry G19s with OEM (-) connectors and G17 smooth triggers.
People get too worked up about triggers. Sight alignment and trigger pull = bang on target.
Light LEM is the only acceptable version IMO.
Its more like a long 2-stage trigger. Long effortless take up first @2lbs but is effortlessly, then the wall & break around 2.5lbs. Reset back to the break only.
Its not hard to shoot, but its unlike a glock trigger or any other striker gun.
Completely agree.....but the Lite LEM is very close to a stock VP9 trigger....I have both
Completely agree.....but the Lite LEM is very close to a stock VP9 trigger....I have both
It is very close much like an apple is to an alligator, but to each to his own. I have both. Both are great.
PB
It is very close much like an apple is to an alligator, but to each to his own. I have both. Both are great.
PB
Take up is different but no creep and quick reset make them similar....my two cents.. Have you tried a USP with Lite LEM and a nickel plated sear spring? That is a sweet set up as well
Take up is different but no creep and quick reset make them similar....my two cents.. Have you tried a USP with Lite LEM and a nickel plated sear spring? That is a sweet set up as well
No but I have played with the "Experts" and some of those high speed deals they make. HK is good stuff for sure.
PB
No but I have played with the "Experts" and some of those high speed deals they make. HK is good stuff for sure.
PB
Agreed.. I wish HK did a factory Lite LEM conversion for my P2000SK V3... I called and they don't officially...
ViniVidivici
11-20-18, 08:49
I have been running Glocks (G17, G23) with NY1 trigger spring/"-" connector for about 5 years now. It's my preferred setup, as for me, it yields a smoother "roll" to the entire pull. Crisp reset, yet less noticeable "wall" in between.
Have shot a HK P2000 with LEM. Don't know which weight it was, but it seemed very light. I liked it.
I agree, it's apples to oranges. That LEM seemed lighter but longer than the way I run my Glock pistols. Very different feel, though.
The grip angle is also different between Glocks and HKs. With the more forward grip angle of the Glock, my trigger finger drags on the upper part of the trigger guard/frame. The straighter grip angle of the HK pretty much fixes this for me. This is one more aspect of why I like the HK grip and trigger over the Glock, it just seems to fit me better.
Agreed.. I wish HK did a factory Lite LEM conversion for my P2000SK V3... I called and they don't officially...
HK USA don't. HK Gmbh does. It is called V0 (while all LEMs are called "CDA" in HK Gmbh nomenclature, V0 is called "CDA/DA") this is how P2000 and P2000SK initially were made for German Police. My P2000 and P2000SK both came from factory in V0. What you need to convert V3 to V0 are 3 parts: spurred LEM hammer, LEM cocking piece and LEM hammer elbow spring. This 3 parts replace hammer. All other parts are same for V0 and V3 (including de-cocker button). What you do not easily have in US from this parts is spurred LEM hammer. You only can get bobbed one (used in V1, V2 and V4 variants). Practical difference is that when you push de-cocker in V0, you relieve tension on hammer spring and you can cock it back using spurred hammer (exactly like you can go from DA to SA in V3), but with bobbed hammer you can't do it and you are stuck with DA first pull.
EDIT: You have V0 specification on bottom of P30 product page on HK website. P30 uses same trigger variants (and same parts) as P2000/P2000SK: https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/pistols/p30/p30p30s/overview.html
I'll tell you one thing, make sure you try the LEM before you buy it. I absolutely HATE the LEM trigger.
I put one in my USP and I thought it would a constant pull weight all the way through, like a really light revolver trigger. It was just a lot of take up then a single action trigger break.
BOOSTjunkie
12-16-18, 07:10
I put one in my USP and I thought it would a constant pull weight all the way through, like a really light revolver trigger. It was just a lot of take up then a single action trigger break.
This is probably the best description. After trying to like the hk45c trigger I put an LEM in it. Very long take up with a disappointing finale at the end. For comparison I run 3.5 connectors with 6 lbs spring. They are nothing alike. I will say the break in the LEM is more "pronounced" and cleaner.
The amount of wall feeling at the end corresponds to the LEM spring set you choose. A V1 is going to have more wall at the end than a V2. A V2 with light firing pin block and 10 or 11lb hammer spring is the closest to a revolver. It’s still closer to a self-decocking TDA than a revolver. This, with a lazy wolf reset reduction makes a very nice pistol for appendix carry.
LEM is not for everyone. I have been using it for at least 10 years, and there are days I wish it wasn’t LEM. The LEM trigger lets you know really fast when your fundamentals are off. The upside is that when you get good with LEM, you can pick up almost any other non-1911 trigger and run it with reasonable-to-high proficiency. Still, pushing below a 0.25 split while maintaining A-zone with LEM is HARD (for me at least).
The amount of wall feeling at the end corresponds to the LEM spring set you choose. A V1 is going to have more wall at the end than a V2.
Sweet spot is V4 with V4.1 (aka V4 CH) with reduced travel (not reset!) being best option.
BTW Back when I was young, I could do regular 0.18s splits with LEM in my .40SW USP Expert ;)
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