View Full Version : SHOT SHOW SLAUGHTER
As someone who possessed a FFL license for decades I enjoyed going my yearly sojourn to Las Vegas every year to attend the Shot Show.
My wife looked forward to shopping the toney stores that don't exist in S. Dakota, and I enjoyed seeing the new additions to my favorite
sports, shooting and hunting.
I released my FFL 7 years ago and have attended Shot Show as a interested observer courtesy of my favorite FFL Dealer in Sturgis, S.D.,
he would send his application to Shot Show and include me a as a employee/sales staff, and a good time was had by all.
This year however he notified me that the NSSF ( National Shooting Sports Foundation ) the governing body of the Shot Show and the same
institution that was instrumental in helping President Clinton to use BATF to hound out of business all of the ( kitchen table ) dealers during
his administration, had radically changed the protocols for attendance to Shot Show 2019.
This year Dealers who are the designated buyer cannot designate another employee as a buyer at the $35.00 fee, anyone other than the
designated buyer/principal incurs a $135.00 fee to attend, and the protocols to attend as a employee/sales staff mandate you include 3
months of paycheck stubs to qualify as staff and the qualifications just ratchet up from there.
This will effectively parse the overall attendance to Shot Show by at least a third in my opinion, and diminish the show overall because the
Shot Show like all exhibitions is a numbers game, the more people who pass by a exhibitors booth/table the better the odds that they will
buy or at least pass on the information to friends and like minded .
The NSSF is a big club and you ain't in it.
I would gladly pay $135 to go. Wouldn't even bat an eye. The pay stubs would obviously never happen, which is why I may never go. Going to the AIA convention costs more than double that, and that is on top of the $600yr membership dues... And I am 100% certain the AIA convention isn't as much fun as SHOT Show.
As someone who possessed a FFL license for decades I enjoyed going my yearly sojourn to Las Vegas every year to attend the Shot Show.
My wife looked forward to shopping the toney stores that don't exist in S. Dakota, and I enjoyed seeing the new additions to my favorite
sports, shooting and hunting.
I released my FFL 7 years ago and have attended Shot Show as a interested observer courtesy of my favorite FFL Dealer in Sturgis, S.D.,
he would send his application to Shot Show and include me a as a employee/sales staff, and a good time was had by all.
This year however he notified me that the NSSF ( National Shooting Sports Foundation ) the governing body of the Shot Show and the same
institution that was instrumental in helping President Clinton to use BATF to hound out of business all of the ( kitchen table ) dealers during
his administration, had radically changed the protocols for attendance to Shot Show 2019.
This year Dealers who are the designated buyer cannot designate another employee as a buyer at the $35.00 fee, anyone other than the
designated buyer/principal incurs a $135.00 fee to attend, and the protocols to attend as a employee/sales staff mandate you include 3
months of paycheck stubs to qualify as staff and the qualifications just ratchet up from there.
This will effectively parse the overall attendance to Shot Show by at least a third in my opinion, and diminish the show overall because the
Shot Show like all exhibitions is a numbers game, the more people who pass by a exhibitors booth/table the better the odds that they will
buy or at least pass on the information to friends and like minded .
The NSSF is a big club and you ain't in it.
Every few years they tighten the rules and raise the fees. An attendance goes up. AFAIK, the fee was $70 for the past several years.
No offense, but anything to eliminate non-buying "interested observer" like yourself is OK with me. 1/3 less attendees would be a dream come true for me.
Yeah, I suspect they're just trying to cut down on the numbers randos roaming around choking up the aisles and booths and keeping actual buyers from doing business with vendors.
Yeah, I suspect they're just trying to cut down on the numbers randos roaming around choking up the aisles and booths and keeping actual buyers from doing business with vendors.
That's how it should be. You couldn't PAY me to go to SHOT. As someone who is NOT in the industry, I don't belong there, and I don't want to be there.
If this cuts down on non-buyer, "interested observers" and internet celebrities roaming around, perfect. SHOT is a business and the convention has become a zoo. I'd venture to say it has gotten a little out of control.
If this cuts down on non-buyer, "interested observers" and internet celebrities roaming around, perfect. SHOT is a business and the convention has become a zoo. I'd venture to say it has gotten a little out of control.
Based on social media feedback, SHOT is a zoo and many buyers in the industry don’t go because of it. This may lure many back.
Yeah, kinda. Non FFL attendees have kind of screwed it up for everyone. But given the venue and problems in the past, I probably won't be going any time soon anyway. And won't solve the problem anyway, plenty of people willing to go to a "huge gun show" and pay the fee and they will still walk around like they are a supplier to three countries and crap like that.
I would gladly pay $135 to go. Wouldn't even bat an eye. The pay stubs would obviously never happen, which is why I may never go. Going to the AIA convention costs more than double that, and that is on top of the $600yr membership dues... And I am 100% certain the AIA convention isn't as much fun as SHOT Show.
You're fellow m4c members don't want you in the SHOT show.
That goes hand in hand with this
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...aCnwaBkUhGwDqY
H. R. 7115
Those Corporate/Statists want all the control of anyone wanting to build their own firearm or customize/repair theirs at less than retail !
You're fellow m4c members don't want you in the SHOT show.
Just the ones that are FFLs trying to conduct business at Shot. A decade ago I was able to put together some great deals since I was able to talk to owners or key reps. A couple small shop manufacturers told me I sold more than anyone else that year.
But at some point I ended up standing in lines 20-40 deep with guys trying to grab free calendars and other swag at the HK and FN booths and I said screw it and walked away. Shot is there for what, four days? They should just have a non FFL day at $150 a ticket and then give actual industry people a couple days to do business.
Guys who are "in the industry" because they make homemade paracord survival bracelets and other crafts that they sell on ebay and then go to shot to fill a push cart with free promotional material which they then sell on ebay have no business there at all.
Never fails, if I'm not there on day ONE I don't get a HK law enforcement catalog because some jackhole has grabbed all of them to sell. It's not exactly free to be a FFL / SOT but it seems I'm in line behind the "free shit for me" crowd all the time.
But at some point I ended up standing in lines 20-40 deep with guys trying to grab free calendars and other swag at the HK and FN booths and I said screw it and walked away. Shot is there for what, four days? They should just have a non FFL day at $150 a ticket and then give actual industry people a couple days to do business.
Guys who are "in the industry" because they make homemade paracord survival bracelets and other crafts that they sell on ebay and then go to shot to fill a push cart with free promotional material which they then sell on ebay have no business there at all.
Never fails, if I'm not there on day ONE I don't get a HK law enforcement catalog because some jackhole has grabbed all of them to sell. It's not exactly free to be a FFL / SOT but it seems I'm in line behind the "free shit for me" crowd all the time.
Agreed with all of this. I'll save you all the catalogs. LOL.
If anyone thinks their going to offset a trip to SHOT/Vegas by selling swag, good luck with that.
Less people? I would call that winning! If you are not a REAL BUYER (with at least $100k in your bank account) stay home and just go to the NRA show.
C4
Less people? I would call that winning! If you are not a REAL BUYER (with at least $100k in your bank account) stay home and just go to the NRA show.
C4
Agreed!
I went to SHOT for years as a buyer and you could not pay me to go back as a non-industry dude. I'd much rather sip my coffee in the comfort of my home and watch the bazillion videos that showcase all the cool stuff. And really, half the stuff you're seeing is unavailable, will never be available, or will become available and suck.
Less people? I would call that winning! If you are not a REAL BUYER (with at least $100k in your bank account) stay home and just go to the NRA show.
C4
LOL
A lot of vendors would not be allowed in!
If anyone thinks their going to offset a trip to SHOT/Vegas by selling swag, good luck with that.
But these guys are fine with "beer money" profits. They don't have FFLs, it's usually a hobby business and they have a day job or live in their parents basement.
Vegas is the part that also sucks. Getting a suite in Orlando was almost free by comparison. Just more reasons I don't bother with Shot any more.
LOL
A lot of vendors would not be allowed in!
No kidding. I have 100k in inventory, but not in my bank account.
High Tower
11-15-18, 01:07
Less people? I would call that winning! If you are not a REAL BUYER (with at least $100k in your bank account) stay home and just go to the NRA show.
C4
100% agree. I don't mind the attendance, but it is frustrating when buyers cannot access reps, products, etc because people who will never write an order are taking up space in the booths.
SilverBullet432
11-15-18, 03:36
Reading through this makes me curious: If you are a buyer, and go to the H&K booth for example and let’s say you want to buy 100 MP5’s (for example) will H&K sell them to you directly as a buyer or would you have to go through their “distributors”. I’d imagine it varies by manufacturer of course. I attend a similar trade show for my industry (Permian Basin International Oil Show) which is really for industry folks and buyers only, Not open to the public, and many products are only available through distribution and not direct. It seems like the manufacturers are only there to show off the newest toys. The free swag is cool, of course.
High Tower
11-15-18, 04:00
It all depends on the manufacturer and if you are part of a buy group. Most companies will sell direct though there’s some that won’t and some will only sell direct if you are part of a buying group.
Distributors are also at shot which is a good opportunity to set up programs with them.
For the vast majority of exhibitors at SHOT there really isn't that much order writing or buying. Those days are gone and the sales pitch and order writing begins well before SHOT. Reps are on the road and many distributors have their own shows with special pricing programs and as a result many dealers have stop attending SHOT as its a better business decision . I look for the whole thing to honestly crash and fade away over the next few years. As an exhibitor its hard to justify the expense of SHOT when you really look at what you write or the new business you actually develop from it these days. How trade is conducted today is very different from the humble beginnings in St. Louis in 79. I have been there pretty much every year since 87.
Honestly SHOT was much cleaner before it became TACTICOOL. Like archery, the MIL/LE stuff that we all love should break away and develop their own show.
I have said for a long time now that SHOT should be open to the public for a few days following the actual industry buying show seeing that more and more manufactures are dealing direct with the actual end user or consumer.
I feel your pain thought as its even getting much harder to get in the damn place when you actually exhibit with a staff of employees. Its end may just be in sight seeing it has become a bit of a carnival any more. Really what needs to be questioned is some of the exhibitors!
Shooting Hunting Outdoor Trade with the likes of breaching equipment and handcuffs, NOT SO MUCH! NSSF lost its way and has no idea on how to fix it except for punishing attendees.
I will just wait till the end of April and go to the NRA Show in INDY , as I can pretty much see everything there that I want to see.
Straight Shooter
11-15-18, 06:38
Less people? I would call that winning! If you are not a REAL BUYER (with at least $100k in your bank account) stay home and just go to the NRA show.
C4
I was just about to ask: WHAT is at the SHOT show, that aint at the NRA Convention? I know SHOT is for industry people only..but is there any product there that isnt available at NRA Convention?
Having shilled for Crimson Trace, I enjoyed the show....but it is changing a bit now.
Sad state of affairs.
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Does this mean that professionals / YouTube content creators like LAV, Karl & Ian from InRangeTV, and Phuc Long will no longer be able to attend?
Does this mean that professionals / YouTube content creators like LAV, Karl & Ian from InRangeTV, and Phuc Long will no longer be able to attend?
Folks like Mr. Vickers can enter via numerous credentials such as consultant, online vendor, etc.
https://shotshow.org/attendee-admission-requirements/
Online personalities such as Phuc Long, etc. probably enters as "media".
militarymoron
11-15-18, 14:33
Online personalities such as Phuc Long, etc. probably enters as "media".
I've always gone as 'media' because my site met the requirements.
Haven't attended the last 4 or 5 years though. Media can play an important role in marketing and getting exposure for new products, which also leads to sales/orders, especially for the less well-known manufacturers.
The thing I miss most about not attending SHOT is meeting up with the manufacturers/designers/reps folk that I've formed friendships with over the years.
I'm in the automotive aftermarket industry doing performance work on German cars. They car equivalent to SHOT is SEMA. SEMA is one of Vegas's largest shows.
Tons of people get into the show that shouldn't it makes it crazy. I feel for the SHOT show people, sucks having all those extra people there. Sounds like SHOT does much better job than SEMA in keeping the rif raf out.
I'm in the automotive aftermarket industry doing performance work on German cars. They car equivalent to SHOT is SEMA. SEMA is one of Vegas's largest shows.
Tons of people get into the show that shouldn't it makes it crazy. I feel for the SHOT show people, sucks having all those extra people there. Sounds like SHOT does much better job than SEMA in keeping the rif raf out.
I enjoyed PRI way more than SEMA. I feel like SHOT show is more like PRI and the NRA show is more like SEMA.
Business_Casual
11-15-18, 16:59
As a guy who has stood in the booth many times (not for this industry), I understand limited attendance based around job function. They are probably also getting pressure from manufacturers who are tired of their products being slagged off on YouTube before the lunch hour the first day.
Reading through this makes me curious: If you are a buyer, and go to the H&K booth for example and let’s say you want to buy 100 MP5’s (for example) will H&K sell them to you directly as a buyer or would you have to go through their “distributors”. I’d imagine it varies by manufacturer of course. I attend a similar trade show for my industry (Permian Basin International Oil Show) which is really for industry folks and buyers only, Not open to the public, and many products are only available through distribution and not direct. It seems like the manufacturers are only there to show off the newest toys. The free swag is cool, of course.
Most of the time you place the order with the manufacturer, and depending on who you are, the order will probably drop ship directly to the customer / LE agency. Unless you are already a LE distributor /wholesaler and HK stocking dealer, there is no way HK is sending you 100 MP5s.
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-18, 05:53
For the vast majority of exhibitors at SHOT there really isn't that much order writing or buying. Those days are gone and the sales pitch and order writing begins well before SHOT. Reps are on the road and many distributors have their own shows with special pricing programs and as a result many dealers have stop attending SHOT as its a better business decision . I look for the whole thing to honestly crash and fade away over the next few years. As an exhibitor its hard to justify the expense of SHOT when you really look at what you write or the new business you actually develop from it these days. How trade is conducted today is very different from the humble beginnings in St. Louis in 79. I have been there pretty much every year since 87.
Honestly SHOT was much cleaner before it became TACTICOOL. Like archery, the MIL/LE stuff that we all love should break away and develop their own show.
I have said for a long time now that SHOT should be open to the public for a few days following the actual industry buying show seeing that more and more manufactures are dealing direct with the actual end user or consumer.
I feel your pain thought as its even getting much harder to get in the damn place when you actually exhibit with a staff of employees. Its end may just be in sight seeing it has become a bit of a carnival any more. Really what needs to be questioned is some of the exhibitors!
Shooting Hunting Outdoor Trade with the likes of breaching equipment and handcuffs, NOT SO MUCH! NSSF lost its way and has no idea on how to fix it except for punishing attendees.
Lot of good points in there.
As a non-industry guy I always wondered why someone would go through the time and expense to attend a "trade-show" to purchase product when they can pull out their cell phone, send an email/text/fax/etc.? A lot of business now days is conducted via video chat like Skype anyway.
Trade-shows in general seem to justify themselves so dudes have an excuse to get away from the wife and kids, get drunk, go to the titty bar, etc. From the outside looking in IMHO it seems to be an archaic concept. I think the real juice for trade-shows like SHOT and CES (The International Consumer Electronics Show) is marketing for manufacturers to show off the latest greatest widget.
Lot of good points in there.
As a non-industry guy I always wondered why someone would go through the time and expense to attend a "trade-show" to purchase product when they can pull out their cell phone, send an email/text/fax/etc.? A lot of business now days is conducted via video chat like Skype anyway.
In my experience, holding new products in your hands tells you a lot of things that pictures cannot. Also negotiating purchases, if I'm face to face I can more efficiently arrive at "how does this work for you" than I can on the phone or skype.
I think it’s a step in the right direction, they also need to get rid of the fake news crews while they are at it. Having a YouTube channel doesn’t make you part of the press automatically. Neither does having a blog.
I should point out that M4carbine.net could probably have a legit press team.
thopkins22
11-20-18, 21:08
I think it’s a step in the right direction, they also need to get rid of the fake news crews while they are at it. Having a YouTube channel doesn’t make you part of the press automatically. Neither does having a blog.
I should point out that M4carbine.net could probably have a legit press team.
So...wanna form the M4C visual journalism department? I’ll teach you how to use photo mechanic if you don’t already use it and what captions/IPTC info fits AP style if you’ll teach me how to light products....
I’d get the better end of the deal.
Outside of catching up with friends, Media day is about the only thing I look forward to any more.
But I can stop counting the number of stuff that disappeared from Crimson Trace booth at ShOT.
Worst was Orlando...
That was ****ed up beyond all measure..
Far worst was New Orleans..
My god was that another hellhole.
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But I can stop counting the number of stuff that disappeared from Crimson Trace booth at ShOT.
Worst was Orlando...
That was ****ed up beyond all measure..
Far worst was New Orleans..
My god was that another hellhole.
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That's appalling but not surprising.
We once caught one thief....and it turns out he owns a gun shop in the midwest...
He made a rather large order and the free shirts, hats, and other swag wasn't enough for him so he figured pilfering the display guns enough to wet his whistle.
I don't know what happened but it involved Las Vegas PD and some misunderstanding that..those display guns was his for the taking of a 10k usd order.
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Reading through this makes me curious: If you are a buyer, and go to the H&K booth for example and let’s say you want to buy 100 MP5’s (for example) will H&K sell them to you directly as a buyer or would you have to go through their “distributors”. I’d imagine it varies by manufacturer of course. I attend a similar trade show for my industry (Permian Basin International Oil Show) which is really for industry folks and buyers only, Not open to the public, and many products are only available through distribution and not direct. It seems like the manufacturers are only there to show off the newest toys. The free swag is cool, of course.
Well an MP5 is a post-sample machine gun, so it is hard for an ordinary dealer to stockpile those. IME, unless you are really big, HK will channel your order to an LE/Distributor, who will take your order and drop ship to the LE/Dept.
On the other hand, there are many MFGs who will sell direct (other than post samples), though many are moving to selling to distributors only unless very large order.
As a non-industry guy I always wondered why someone would go through the time and expense to attend a "trade-show" to purchase product when they can pull out their cell phone, send an email/text/fax/etc.? A lot of business now days is conducted via video chat like Skype anyway.
See/touch/learn about products I did not know existed or how they worked. Lots of products look good on paper, but actually seeing quality, etc, they are dogs. I find it much easier to make deals in person than over phone.
Moose-Knuckle
11-21-18, 15:56
In my experience, holding new products in your hands tells you a lot of things that pictures cannot. Also negotiating purchases, if I'm face to face I can more efficiently arrive at "how does this work for you" than I can on the phone or skype.
See/touch/learn about products I did not know existed or how they worked. Lots of products look good on paper, but actually seeing quality, etc, they are dogs. I find it much easier to make deals in person than over phone.
Valid points.
Having a YouTube channel doesn’t make you part of the press automatically. Neither does having a blog.
On IWA (European "Shot Show") last year they put special zone for "new-media", separate from traditional press-room.
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