View Full Version : Idea for gun safety -- magazine followers
Why don't manufacturers all make their followers bright orange? It'd be easier to see (particularly for novices) than the usual black ones.
IDK, but I really don't know what firearm safety rule would be enhanced by orange followers.
Treat it like it's loaded. If it has a magazine in then it is loaded. I don't need to see a follower to determine if it is loaded.
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Some already do
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x1200/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/z/cz-p-10-c-9mm-17rd-magazine-11523_left.jpg
Why don't manufacturers all make their followers bright orange? It'd be easier to see (particularly for novices) than the usual black ones.
Definitely handy.
hopetonbrown
11-17-18, 00:17
Could you explain to me how this would increase safety?
I don't see how this would increase safety, but some manufacturers definitely do this already. Glock, in their Gen 5 mags, do. I *think* my Walter mags may also.
Straight Shooter
11-17-18, 06:57
I dont like them, and wont use a mag with them.
Can you explain how that works?
In the gun you can't see it anyway. Even if you were to press check you'd either see brass, indicating a loaded gun.... or not. If pull slide back back it will lock back on an empty mag. Even if that feature malfunctions or isn't available you still would see brass indicating the gun has live ammo.
If the mag is just laying there on the table or whatever you can still see if there is brass or not.
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Brass can be tarnished, dull, corroded, and some use steel cases which can blend almost perfectly. A high visibility follower adds a layer of instant visual recognition that ammunition isn't in a particular part of the gun. Most useful in groups of people/institutional use and low light.
Brass can be tarnished, dull, corroded, and some use steel cases which can blend almost perfectly. A high visibility follower adds a layer of instant visual recognition that ammunition isn't in a particular part of the gun. Most useful in groups of people/institutional use and low light.
This. Even easier to see in a pump shotgun, if the follower is bright orange.
This. Even easier to see in a pump shotgun, if the follower is bright orange.
A high vis follower is definitely a big plus in any tube fed shotgun.
Hi viz green:
https://sjhardware.us/product/2-follower/
Really can't say I ever notice it in use, but doesn't cause any issues so all is good.
I’ll agree... not really going to help a lot with safety.
Don’t think any of my current magazines have red/orange followers. My 11-87 and 870 Police did... swapped in stainless after the polymer follower got stuck in cold weather (my 11-87, while hunting). I’m not more dangerous because of that.
To me, you can’t make someone safer by product features/improvements. Knowledge, whether actual training, practice, or even taking the time and reading the manual... is how someone increases their safe handling of firearms.
I see that as saying those orange chamber flags increase safety. I disagree with that... treating the gun as if it was loaded does a lot better job across the board.
It doesn't. It's a marketing gimmick.
I’ll agree... not really going to help a lot with safety.
Don’t think any of my current magazines have red/orange followers. My 11-87 and 870 Police did... swapped in stainless after the polymer follower got stuck in cold weather (my 11-87, while hunting). I’m not more dangerous because of that.
To me, you can’t make someone safer by product features/improvements. Knowledge, whether actual training, practice, or even taking the time and reading the manual... is how someone increases their safe handling of firearms.
I see that as saying those orange chamber flags increase safety. I disagree with that... treating the gun as if it was loaded does a lot better job across the board.
I do not know how much experience you have in attending or running courses, or in competition, but chamber flags indicate that a weapon's chamber is empty and clear, and if the magazine well is empty, a line officer, or other shooter can see that the weapon is clear. In those circumstances I'm more worried about other shooters than I am myself.
When I run rifle or shotgun courses all weapons are cleared off the line because participants put their weapons in racks while they hydrate, reload, etc. Using chamber flags makes it safer and easier to manage.
As the prices of the Safe Cycle and Rapid Rack chamber devices have dropped, I'm surprised more patrol rifle instructors haven't worked them into their programs for operational use.
SomeOtherGuy
11-20-18, 21:56
It's a good idea, and it would cost roughly nothing if manufactured that way in the first place.
Not a magic fix but it makes it easier to recognize an empty mag.
I do not know how much experience you have in attending or running courses, or in competition, but chamber flags indicate that a weapon's chamber is empty and clear, and if the magazine well is empty, a line officer, or other shooter can see that the weapon is clear. In those circumstances I'm more worried about other shooters than I am myself.
Roger that... and never insinuated anything specifically regarding that.
I compared them to colored magazine followers, in regards to effecting an INDIVIDUAL’s safe handling practice. Product trying to solve a software issue, if it is a little clearer. If people know that a gun is unloaded by a chamber flag... does that translate into safe gun practices passed that? I don’t think it does anything other than show others a gun is clear, as you stated.
Sorry if you misunderstood my post. However, I believe dealing with 10+ shooters is a little different than what was being discussed.
Brass can be tarnished, dull, corroded, and some use steel cases which can blend almost perfectly. A high visibility follower adds a layer of instant visual recognition that ammunition isn't in a particular part of the gun. Most useful in groups of people/institutional use and low light.
You’re definitely not wrong, as long as the operator understands that means the magazine is empty and not the gun as you said.
I have a 10/22 with a match barrel that will at times leave a round in the chamber because the chamber is tighter than the extractor can pull.
I also witnessed the same thing with a TA-90 (CZ-75 copy) where the magazine was removed, the slide was pulled back and locked back but the round remained in the chamber. Very rare of course and the other firearm safety rules will CYA in these scenarios but if Jim Bob sees orange and doesn’t even glance at the chamber it becomes a liability.
phidelt208
11-21-18, 14:51
I’ll agree... not really going to help a lot with safety.
Don’t think any of my current magazines have red/orange followers. My 11-87 and 870 Police did... swapped in stainless after the polymer follower got stuck in cold weather (my 11-87, while hunting). I’m not more dangerous because of that.
To me, you can’t make someone safer by product features/improvements. Knowledge, whether actual training, practice, or even taking the time and reading the manual... is how someone increases their safe handling of firearms.
I see that as saying those orange chamber flags increase safety. I disagree with that... treating the gun as if it was loaded does a lot better job across the board.
Your statement above is spot on. To many range officer, Saftey officers, and instructors, use a chamber flag as a way to be lazy, and a REPLACEMENT for the 4 firearms saftey rules. (If they don't know them or choose not to follow them thats another topic) Chamber flags are a great and well thought suppliment for saftey.
I beileve there is a need for them, where people are coming to classes and matches that dont know about true firearm saftey.
As an example: No inteligent person wants a gun pointed at them chamber flag or no.
I’ll agree... not really going to help a lot with safety.
To me, you can’t make someone safer by product features/improvements. Knowledge, whether actual training, practice, or even taking the time and reading the manual... is how someone increases their safe handling of firearms.
This is the kind of wives tale that gun people love to repeat, but it is primarily marketing baloney created by Glock to sell guns with no safety or DA trigger pull.
The fact of the matter is that any neuroscientist or aviation safety expert will tell you that no one is 100% infallible, and safety devices, indicators and interlocs are necessary "defenses in depth" that can head off a tragic chain of events.
The second most dangerous gun people are those who have trained themselves to such a high proficiency that they no longer doing the safety steps consciously. These people look good, shoot great and surprise everyone when they AD because they thought they looked in the chamber, but really just made the habitual motion of holding the breech open while directing their eyes into it. I've seen it more than once - even with a range safety officer shooting and another watching him.
You can't really train mindfulness through repetition. Which is why a bright orange piece of plastic might be novel enough to make some sort of impression. I don't know how much this specific feature could actually help, but orange plastic doesn't feed ammo any worse than black plastic.
Plus, it might prevent you from grabbing an empty mag when you really, really need a loaded one.
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