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Where are folks getting their mk262/77gr OTM ammo from? (aside from reloading)
Where are folks getting their mk262/77gr OTM ammo from? (aside from reloading)
Cabela's when they get a shipment of the seconds from Black Hills. It is actually a fairly reasonable price when you can find it on the shelves there. $35/50 is what I saw last time.
Spooky
Anything under a buck a round seems to be a good deal. I usually find it $20-25+ for a 20rn box, which is gay. I'm not set up for hand loading yet, and might not be for a while.
Parabellum9x19mm
11-02-08, 13:27
i shoot the Black Hills stuff or Remington Premier Match....its loaded with the 77 SMKs. you can get either at cabellas or online. at cabellas you will pay over a dollar per round for either.
both group around 2.5 at 300 yards for me. a better shot might be able to coax those groups slightly smaller.
you might want to look at PRVI 75 grain match ammo. its significantly cheaper. my groups are about 3" at 300 yards with that stuff...once again, someone with more skill might be able to do a little better.
i shoot the Black Hills stuff or Remington Premier Match....its loaded with the 77 SMKs. you can get either at cabellas or online. at cabellas you will pay over a dollar per round for either.
both group around 2.5 at 300 yards for me. a better shot might be able to coax those groups slightly smaller.
you might want to look at PRVI 75 grain match ammo. its significantly cheaper. my groups are about 3" at 300 yards with that stuff...once again, someone with more skill might be able to do a little better.
I don't want to hijack but, what barrel are you using?
That PRVI 75 is a lot cheaper-
Grant has some Red Box Molly coated stuff for about $45 (i think), I just ordered 2 boxes.
Aim Surplus has the PRVI 75gr. in stock right now-
Parabellum9x19mm
11-02-08, 13:56
I don't want to hijack but, what barrel are you using?
stainless Noveske 18" SPR
stainless Noveske 18" SPR
what setup are you runnin that SPR on? i'm puttin together a Noveske SPR myself.
I don't want to hijack but...
feel free. my threads never go anywhere anyway.
Iraq Ninja
11-02-08, 23:16
I get my MK 262 from a local Army unit :).
Seriously, the PRVI 75 is good stuff.
BTW, have the MK 262 ever been sold on the US market in the brown issued 20 rnd boxes, or just the BH box?
I get my MK 262 from a local Army unit :).
Seriously, the PRVI 75 is good stuff.
BTW, have the MK 262 ever been sold on the US market in the brown issued 20 rnd boxes, or just the BH box?
i've heard tell of brown boxes being bought and sold, but i've never gotten my hands on any. i think i MIGHT have even seen a box or two listed on an ammo site for way too much money, sometime in the last few months, but i could be full of shit.
I thought about scoring a case of the prvi- figured i should get a test fire batch first. havent put my SPR together yet (havent received all the parts yet) though, so i saw no rush.
you like the stuff, eh? what kind of groups you getting through what?
Anything under a buck a round seems to be a good deal.
There's no round that can be fired in the AR15 rifle that's worth $1 per round. ;)
Good point, demigod. I heartily agree.
Found a place that'll do 1,000rn case of Noslers or Sierra MKs for $750.. that's not TOO much worse than I could do on my own. It'd take me a while to get through the case, I wouldn't be blowing the 77's off en masse. Give me some time to get set up for reloading.
http://www.starsandstripesammo.com/index2.html
he said he's running out of brass and is having trouble finding more, at the moment... i'm not too surprised. so it might be a several week turnaround.
Parabellum9x19mm
11-03-08, 21:12
what setup are you runnin that SPR on? i'm puttin together a Noveske SPR myself.
upper is built on a rifle length VIS. lower is POF, Geissele service trigger, Bobro bi-pod, A2 butt stock, Nikkon Monarch 4-16x in a LT SPR mount.
its just a range queen, but its a lot of fun to shoot. its fed a diet of PRVI 75 Match. i used a bit of mk.262 and 75 TAP when i was doing preliminary ammo testing, but i found that the PRVI really held its own, so i've stuck with it. still have a small quantity of 77SMK saved up for a rainy day.
good luck on your build!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/parabellum9x19mm/0814080847.jpg
still have a small quantity of 77SMK saved up for a rainy day.
how big o difference you see between the 77 and the prvi 75? 75's almost half the cost. is it BT?
Parabellum9x19mm
11-04-08, 01:02
yes the PRVI is HPBT ammo.
there is not a big difference in performance, especially given how much cheaper the PRVI is. like i said, the difference in group size was roughly half an inch at 300 yards. i don't have any chrono data, sorry.
the reason i keep the SMK in an ammo can, while i continue to buy the PRVI, is because the SMK is almost too expensive to shoot. i'd rather save it for "just in case" and continue to expend the PRVI, because the performance is almost as good.
i'm not any sort of scout-sniper and the furthest range i shoot out to is 300 yards, so i can deal with my groups being half an inch bigger...especially when my rounds are about half the price.
so i can deal with my groups being half an inch bigger...especially when my rounds are about half the price.
i'll take a 3/16th MOA difference for half the price. I'll order some o the 77, for comparison. thanks for the info.
you always shoot that thing benchrest?
Parabellum9x19mm
11-04-08, 04:19
you always shoot that thing benchrest?
yup. although unlike in that picture, i put sandbags in front of the bi-pod to get a little tension going on.
like i said, she's a range queen :D
Cabela's when they get a shipment of the seconds from Black Hills. It is actually a fairly reasonable price when you can find it on the shelves there. $35/50 is what I saw last time.
Spooky
So the 77gr seconds is mk 262? I live in the same city that Black Hills ammo comes from, so the local stores usually have the seconds for a fair price and I wouldn't mind getting some ammo with a 77gr bullet. In regards to privi 75gr ammo, i thought that the bullet didn't have the best terminal performance or something and should be used for pracice only. Is that true or will it work as well as mk 262?
So the 77gr seconds is mk 262? I live in the same city that Black Hills ammo comes from, so the local stores usually have the seconds for a fair price and I wouldn't mind getting some ammo with a 77gr bullet. In regards to privi 75gr ammo, i thought that the bullet didn't have the best terminal performance or something and should be used for pracice only. Is that true or will it work as well as mk 262?
Mk262 is Sierra Match King 77grain loaded in a 5.56 cartridge.. there's probably some very specific powder measurement as well... everything related to the SPR is very specific, from barrel dimensions to ammo.
people been saying the 75 prvi is good shooting from an SPR. im sure it's not as good as 77MK, but by how much I can't say, having never shot the prvi.
as far as "practice," that depends entirely on what you're practicing for. are you practicing breath pattern, trigger squeeze, learning range estimation, learning wind estimation, etc? or are you practicing putting a specific bullet in a specific place?
if you're just wanting to shoot good groups, or learn how to shoot longer range, you're gonna use whatever ammo fulfills your needs, according to weapon and skill level. prvi 75 might be more accurate than you or your rifle. it could also be holding you and your rifle back.
if you're practicing for a "real" long-range situation that requires a specific load, you're gonna need to "practice" with the same ammo. you can't train with one load, then switch to a different one to make the "real" shot, whether it's a Big Horn or an enemy officer.
I'm not a good enough shot to be worying about shooting very far. I was more interested in having a heavier bullet for critter control and possibly deer hunting. For the time being things like one catridge being more accurate than another at anything past 100 yards isn't a big deal, I'm more interest in which would perform better for hunting.
BTW, have the MK 262 ever been sold on the US market in the brown issued 20 rnd boxes, or just the BH box?
I am told it has not. Individuals and companies associated with the military/government are sometimes able to obtain brown box Mk 262 through legitimate channels, but anything on the commercial market most likely "fell off a truck". Someone may correct me on this, but that information comes from a reliable source...
I am told it has not. Individuals and companies associated with the military/government are sometimes able to obtain brown box Mk 262 through legitimate channels, but anything on the commercial market most likely "fell off a truck". Someone may correct me on this, but that information comes from a reliable source...
this was my thinking as well.
I'm not a good enough shot to be worying about shooting very far. I was more interested in having a heavier bullet for critter control and possibly deer hunting. For the time being things like one catridge being more accurate than another at anything past 100 yards isn't a big deal, I'm more interest in which would perform better for hunting.
ah... well, then for practice i'd just shoot whatever's cheap. your ballistics aren't gonna change much under 100m.
i've yet to hunt with an AR... when I think of 77otm, i think long-range shooting only.
I got some mk262 mod 1 in 30rd box cardboard no paint white label,(cardboard is brown).Sorry nfs. bought all that i could find.
I got some mk262 mod 1 in 30rd box cardboard no paint white label,(cardboard is brown).Sorry nfs. bought all that i could find.
there's "mk262" to be found.. it's not "issue" mk262, but it's 5.56 sierra MK 77, which is gonna be close to the same thing, if not exactly.
refer the link i posted for stars and stripes... i need to call back and find out what kinda powder they're using, but they claim its "the same" as mk262- and even call it "mk262"
NinjaMedic
11-13-08, 00:53
Please forgive my ignorance as I am still new to the whole reloading thing. If you can purchase the 77gr SMK OTM projectiles and the correct 5.56 brass and the correct primers, why cant you purchase the same powder Black Hills is loading into the Mk262? Every recipe I see for these military rounds is attempting to "get close" or "match" the performance of the M262 using different commercial reloading powders. Why cant you just purchase the powder Black Hills is using and "roll your own" real MK262? Its not like the recipe is classified is it? Also whats the thinking behind Black Hills not being able to sell real deal non-seconds? I imagine the commies can already produce precision rifle rounds also :p Again sorry for my ignorance just curious.
Please forgive my ignorance as I am still new to the whole reloading thing. If you can purchase the 77gr SMK OTM projectiles and the correct 5.56 brass and the correct primers, why cant you purchase the same powder Black Hills is loading into the Mk262? Every recipe I see for these military rounds is attempting to "get close" or "match" the performance of the M262 using different commercial reloading powders. Why cant you just purchase the powder Black Hills is using and "roll your own" real MK262? Its not like the recipe is classified is it? Also whats the thinking behind Black Hills not being able to sell real deal non-seconds? I imagine the commies can already produce precision rifle rounds also :p Again sorry for my ignorance just curious.
no.. i dont thgink the powder is commercially available. i think you gotta do some reverse engineering to load it yourself. keep in mind, i'm only just kind of learning how to load right now- but i would imagine you'd want to get ahold of at least a 50 rnd box of the issue stuff, take some chrono readings, pull the bullet out of a couple, weigh the powder, and try to make some guesses as to where to begin. if you have some knowledge and a good data book, you might be able to narrow the possibilities down enough to do some test loads, comparing your results against the original mk262s... etc.
really, i think you're better off just loading some shit specifically to your own bore. even if you get the exact recipe for some good mk262 cloain loads, that's not necessarly the best ammo for your stick. and if youre gonna go to all this trouble, you should be concentrating the effort on making the best ammo, not the closest replication.
in my opinion.
as far as the rest... black hills would probably rather remain the exclusive supplier of mk262 to the military.. if they released the powder or powder formula, they lose that exclusivity.. thats my guess, anyway.
I've shot both the Mk262 mod1 & Black Hills 77gr SMK BTHP at 200-300 yds and could not tell any real difference. It had been a colder, windier day in SoCal and when I switched to 55gr M193 I had difficulties hitting the 10" plate. Visually, the Black Hills blue box stuff has shiny, polished looking brass/bullets, as oppossed to the Mk262 unpolished, dull look. Some of the blue box brass has the Lake City NATO stamp on them. I have some Black Hills red box, but have not shot them yet. They are stamped BHA 223. The Mk262 I have are stamped WCC 04.
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