Game Of Thrones Season 8 Predictions and Discussion [Archive]

Jellybean

11-21-18, 17:19

Haven't seen a thread for the upcoming [final?] season 8, so....

What do you guys see happening this season?

SPOILER OUT
----------------------

IMO....

I think one of the biggest questions to ask is, is Danerys really the "good guy" anymore?
Ok, so we all want to see Cersi get wrecked (not like that you perverts :laugh: ), although Jamie is kinda a good bro-dude all of a sudden.
However, there seems to be, as she climbs the ladder, indications that there is less and less interest in, or intent to "break the wheel" as they put it originally and actually free Westeros, and more indication that she's going to pursue the same position of sole leadership that every other ruler before her has. Her only interest when meeting Jon Snow was that he (and the North) bend the knee TO her, not fight WITH her. And then there was the little matter of roasting poor Billy Bones and his dad with a dragon after ambushing that Lannister convoy...Brilliant political tactics there...Join or die. Hell of a choice...kind of like any other potential ruler would do...:rolleyes:
Meesa IS a master....?

Which brings us to another point- Jon Snow knows nothing.
Or at the very least, he seems to have a bit of a hard time seeing broader pictures....
First off, he's barely managing to hold the North together right now, what with division over letting the Wildlings over the wall, and then he barely managed to pull together any army at all before they got battered against the Boltons, due to a certain not-so-brilliant decision on his part (and the Onion Knight too, but let's be honest- Jon almost cost them that battle). And YET...somehow after all that they still decide to pick him as King of the North because they believe he'll have their best interests in mind to keep them free from any Southern king/queen's meddling nonsense.
And then he gets all doe-eyed over Dany because dragons are cool (well, ok...they are...), and technically surrenders the North to foreign rule...exactly what he was NOT elected king to do...
I get a kick out of the fact that he didn't even try to counter-negotiate for an alliance before just going all in...

I have a suspicion none of that is going to play well when he gets back to Winterfell. I think there's a good chance he's going to lose a lot of support from the other Northern Lords, and it isn't like Sansa doesn't want a shot a ruling the North herself...
And according to Bran's revelation at the end of last season...Jon and Dany are related anyway, so...there's that. :laugh:
Or maybe finding that out will put an end to the shenanigans right away? I can see some sort of joint-rule situation working out since they're related and Targaryen technically has proper claim to the throne....Who knows...
Gendry's still in the mix too, after all. I don't think he'd really want the crown though.

Both the Dornish queen [?] and shame-nun are jerks and I have little sympathy for either of them. Although somehow I suspect the Dornish one will wriggle out of it all somehow...

I suspect Grey Worm will die in epic fashion in battle at some point. Which will be a bummer- he's such a starch-arse he's actually kind of likable...

Euron Greyjoy is to cocky for his own good- I predict a justifiably hard fall coming his way. The only question is who he's going to kill on the way out... I have a suspicion nothing will turn out well for the Greyjoy clan...

Jamie will end up killing Cersi, in a near-exact rehash of what happened when he killed the king which got him his nick-name....
Remember the vision Danerys had back in season 2[?] of the burned-out throne room in the Red Keep? And we've established Cersi has a liking for wildfire.... I think she's gonna be like "Buhn dem", and Jamie's gonna be like "aw hell nah fam"! And he'll end up sacrificing himself to stop Cersi and the Keep will burn instead of the whole city. It will all be very poetic, since we all know Jamie wouldn't want to live without Cersi anyway...

I kinda want Tyrion to ride a dragon at some point. That would be epic.
The Hound vs The Mountain is long overdue as well....
Sansa is going to become the "little finger" of the North, possibly backed up by Arya as the enforcer...
Although Arya does have a bit of a penchant for rash action...and there's still a couple names on "the list"....

Also, Brienne and Tormund is the best thing ever...:laugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7s3wWKM3Ko

What thinkest thou all?

Circle_10

11-21-18, 17:43

I predict it will be an even bigger train wreck than Season 7. I mean WTF has been going on with the writing the last couple seasons? And I swear the characters in GOT do more fast-traveling across Westeros than I did in the Mojave Wasteland while playing Fallout: New Vegas....
But I'll watch it anyway, so HBO still wins...

Alex V

11-21-18, 20:38

Jamie will kill Cerse to fulfill Maggy The Frog's prophecy.
Jon will kill Dany to become Azor Ahai forge Lightbringer and defeat the Night King.

SteyrAUG

11-21-18, 20:50

I predict Dany will get naked and I'll watch.

Honestly this is one of those rare few shows where I don't try and figure out all the subplots, I just watch and enjoy. Although frozen zombie army making a frozen zombie dragon really did bumb me out. Should not have been that easy to bring a Dragon down and it it was Dany should have known better.

Honestly I'm sick of the whole frozen zombie army plot, wish a dragon would just char broil them and be done with that noise already. They show was more fun when little cunty kings were getting killed by the poison clan and things like that.

FromMyColdDeadHand

11-22-18, 00:27

I just want it over. It started out awesome and you get hooked onto the characters, but the last season was a hot mess. Just show me how it ends and what happens to the characters.

Spiffums

11-24-18, 23:22

And according to Bran's revelation at the end of last season...Jon and Dany are related anyway, so...there's that. :laugh:
Or maybe finding that out will put an end to the shenanigans right away? I can see some sort of joint-rule situation working out since they're related and Targaryen technically has proper claim to the throne....Who knows...
Gendry's still in the mix too, after all. I don't think he'd really want the crown though.

Targ male claims always outweight Targ female claims.....in the books at least. So Jon has the better claim....if they win the war should be King of everything. Which will be the big plot twist after a half the episodes of Dany riding the Frost Dragon.

ramairthree

11-25-18, 00:50

The series is dependent upon a draft dodging college deferring then conscientious objector, boomer democrat, gun control and Islamic refugee candidates proponent,
Who believes the lore of Marvel comics is of greater significance than that of history’s greatest literary works, and has written screenplays about how much braver the guys who went to Canada to dodge the Vietnam war were than the combat vets who went, and has a vile, horrendous twisted mind full of horrible things,

To actually finish some books vs phone in some half baked non fleshed out plot lines.

He is a brilliant, but horrible, undisciplined human being.

Joelski

11-25-18, 08:38

I just want it over. It started out awesome and you get hooked onto the characters, but the last season was a hot mess. Just show me how it ends and what happens to the characters.

They all got jobs in the DC universe. People can't die and get out fast enough as all the good gigs get swept up, they'll be left clamouring for "crumbs".

Jellybean

11-25-18, 17:58

...Honestly this is one of those rare few shows where I don't try and figure out all the subplots, I just watch and enjoy....
Heresy of the highest order. That's a blammin'. :big_boss:

Although frozen zombie army making a frozen zombie dragon really did bumb me out. Should not have been that easy to bring a Dragon down and it it was Dany should have known better.

Honestly I'm sick of the whole frozen zombie army plot, wish a dragon would just char broil them and be done with that noise already. They show was more fun when little cunty kings were getting killed by the poison clan and things like that.

...Although I gotta agree with this assessment. I liked the "people" stories better too, I'm tired of the White Walker nonsense, and I feel like "But frozen zombies, you guys!" was the angle to making them such a focal point of the show, just trying to jump on the Zombi craze bandwagon.

I just want it over. It started out awesome and you get hooked onto the characters, but the last season was a hot mess. Just show me how it ends and what happens to the characters.

Well, I will still be sad to see it go....but yeah. Things did get noticeably less well-thought-out after season 4-ish.

Targ male claims always outweight Targ female claims.....in the books at least. So Jon has the better claim....if they win the war should be King of everything. Which will be the big plot twist after a half the episodes of Dany riding the Frost Dragon.

Well isn't that just what a right wing incel would say... ;)
In all seriousness though, do not underestimate the power of politics influencing this show...

That being said- I wouldn't mind Jon being the One King to rule them all- despite my misgivings about his naivete, I think he's the only person in a position to take rulership of anything who would truly have the best interests of the *people* of the Seven Kingdoms in mind. In fact, I can theoretically see him as being the only one that would actually follow up on the whole "break the wheel" meme, as Dany is clearly intent on taking the throne before anything else at this point...

Grand58742

11-28-18, 00:30

I predict...

Lot of gratuitous boob shots.

Lot of wine drinking.

Some quippy one liners from everyone's favorite Imp.

Sex.

More gratuitous boob shots combined with wine drinking and sex.

On the serious side...

I have this feeling Bronn and the Hound are going to get into it eventually, but end up fighting together against the Mountain. (Bronn and the Hound are two of my favorite characters in the series)

Even though they made up at the end of Season 7, something will happen between Arya and Sansa. Too much tension in that area. I think Arya ends up back in Braavos running the house of faceless men.

With the major discovery of Jon Snow being a half Stark, half Targaryen, this will play somehow in the whole King of the 7 Realms thing and the southern houses taking his side.

Good bet Jon rides a dragon at some point.

Though, I'm calling the shot right now. Sansa to the Iron Throne by the end. I just get this feeling.

What I'd like to see...

A cameo of Ygritte. Damn, that woman was all that. Maybe in a dream or something?

hotrodder636

11-28-18, 11:11

Tagged to follow

FromMyColdDeadHand

11-28-18, 11:26

I predict...

Lot of gratuitous boob shots.

Lot of wine drinking.

Some quippy one liners from everyone's favorite Imp.

Sex.

More gratuitous boob shots combined with wine drinking and sex.

On the serious side...

The age of boobs and debauchery is over in their world and ours. It already has been on the wane. The actors are bigger stars, the general public is supposedly tired of the objectification of women, and it is now a PITA to get a sex scene in an HBO production. So now Dany, Jon, and Dragon threesome anytime soon. Plus cold weather and nudity?

Bron either finds nobility and dies a good death, or just melts away at the end.

Is Lyanna Mormont legal yet?

Circle_10

11-28-18, 12:53

Is Lyanna Mormont legal yet?

In Westeros she is.

In the real world, not so much. The actress was born in 2003.

Grand58742

11-28-18, 15:20

Plus cold weather and nudity?

Sure didn't stop Jon and Ygritte in that cave.

"You know noth..."

Achilles11B

11-28-18, 15:53

Lyanna Mormont ends up on the throne from sheer will.

I’m a huge fan of the series, but I’ll be glad when it’s over. The last two seasons felt a little hurried to get everything to this point but overall, it’s been an outstanding show. Here’s hoping HBO doesn’t spin up thirty prequel/spin-offs to ruin the whole thing.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-13-19, 23:43

So how do you watch the GOT season 8 in 4K? I have Xfinity cable, but on there and online I can't seem to find out how to get it either on a 4k channel or stream it in 4K?

SteyrAUG

04-15-19, 02:33

So far rather meh.

First they try to do an EPIC introduction before the actual series intro. Reminded me of something between the NFL buildups prior to a bowl game or something from the WWF days.

I can just hear the creative department sitting at their tables saying "It's going to have to be EPIC!!!!" The sad part is you can't make something EPIC, it either is or it isn't. And this wasn't. But for the first time in my life I understood why some people dismissed Citizen Kane. While it was a brilliant film, especially for the time, I now get that Orson Wells and crew seemed to decide they were smarter than everyone else on the planet, and when that isn't the case and you try too hard to be clever or epic, it comes of smarmy and insulting. Thank god I watched a recording so I could just FF through that bullshit.

Time wasted letting the yokels bathe in the wonderment of Dani and Jon on a magical CGI dragon flight. I can almost hear the ten year old girls squeal in delight, I hoped they enjoyed it, it wasted my time.

And yes we are starting to get more and more evidence that Dani isn't a "good guy" ruler and once things get resolved with Frosty King and his Icepops crew, there will be a reckoning because it turns out Jon Snow is the one true king of everything. Raise your hand if that revelation wasn't particularly shocking and reminded you of the line "Luke, I'm your father...Obi Wan lied to you."

Oh and Bran, he still bores the crap out of me.

Of course we need to kill the snow zombies before we can get anything meaningful done with the storyline.

prdubi

04-15-19, 04:27

All I care for is the Hound.

I riot if he dies.

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Alex V

04-15-19, 08:59

All I care for is the Hound.

I riot if he dies.

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News flash... everyone is going to die... maybe. Martin said that the ending of the books will be a battlefield with everyone dead and the snow is beginning to melt signifying the coming of spring. We shall see if HBO sticks to his outline, I doubt it.

I felt EP8x01 was a 6/10 at best.

SPOILER ALERT: Stop if you have not seen the episode yet.

I understand that they need to gather all the main characters at Winterfell in order to stage the battle with the Night's King so I am not too mad about the setup episode. It needs to happen. Having said that, with only 6 episodes and a lot of people to kill, its hard to spend an entire episode on gathering everyone. Plus, they haven't even done that. Beric and Tormund still aren't there, neither is Dolorous Edd, so we have still more setup in the next episode.

The scene where Sam tell Jon he is really Aegon Targaryen felt rushed. It was far too important to the story to just be a quick scene in the crypt where Sam blurts it out. Bran should have been there as well to provide CCTV footage, it is hard to believe that Jon will just take what Sam said as truth. Jon didn't ask for any proof and was only concerned with the treasonous aspects of what Sam was saying. Wouldn't you be more concerned that you had sex with your aunt at that point?

There was a huge misstep and missed opportunity when Jon (Aegon) got to ride Rhaegal. The dragon is named for his father after all. In Spoils of War (EP7x04) when Daenerys comes back from burning a shit ton of Lannister men and lands in front of Jon, he takes his glove of and touches Drogon. Dany looks astonished that he was able to do so and Drogon was calm with him. This foreshadows what we already know, that Jon is a Targaryen, the dragon can sense it. This time, Jon gets on Rhaegal and there is no reaction. She should know that only Targaryans can ride dragons, why didn't this set off alarms? It's like he was just borrowing Dany's space GSXR 600 while she sits on her Hayabusa. Come on. We know he is a Targaryen, but she doesn't, more should have been made of that for her. Then it just turns into the dogfight scene from Independence Day. They turn a really significant event into some comic relief with Drogon giving Jon the stink-eye like a kid who doesn't like the new guy banging his mom.

This also goes back to EP6x02 when Tyrion frees the Virerion and Rhaegal in Meereen. There is a theory that Tyrion is the rape baby of Aerys II and Joanna Lannister. Which would be a good reason why Tywin hated him (other than killing Joanna in child-birth) and would explain why he was able to approach the dragons and not die. With Viserion being an undead ice dragon, I don't think this will be explored any further and we will not get the Three-Headed dragon from the prophecy.

We have 5 episodes left, let's see if the wait was worth it.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-15-19, 09:13

The scene where Sam tell Jon he is really Aegon Targaryen felt rushed.

No proof, not even a 'search inside yourself' moment.

Well put that there is a lot of dying to do and not much time.

Needle has been used once or twice....it's been inside more people than Randy Spears...

docsherm

04-15-19, 12:57

Has anyone realized that the two main woman in the show both played the same famous character?

SteyrAUG

04-15-19, 13:09

Has anyone realized that the two main woman in the show both played the same famous character?

Are you Sarah Conner?

docsherm

04-15-19, 13:12

Are you Sarah Conner?

Winner Winner Chicken dinner......... ;)

Five_Point_Five_Six

04-15-19, 14:39

Has anyone realized that the two main woman in the show both played the same famous character?

Arya Stark never played Sarah Connor. ;)

WillBrink

04-16-19, 08:01

I enjoyed the season opener. Perfect no, good enough to hit the GOT spot, yes. As current society is looking to ruin pretty much everything, they're ruining GOT too with the wining. My favorite of them is some complaining that the show treats women badly. You'd have to be a f-in moron to conclude that, but this is the right time for GOT to end before it's completely ruined.

Jer

04-16-19, 08:30

I, too, was underwhelmed by the final season opener. The dragon scene covered none of the importance it should and was sappy and lame instead of intense and epic. Twilight was still a better love story.

I didn't read the books but my wife did and she has echoed much of what has been said here. Lots of plot lines that could have been easily covered that made the books super deep. She also believed the story of Tyrion and that was never covered but when he freed the dragons it was pretty obvious that he wasn't just some Lanister. It made me made that the last two seasons had episodes that seemed rushed and drug on w/o substance at the same time. This story could have been told better in those instances. Lots of other main plot lines could have been expanded upon while keeping things moving.

We watched the entire series again last month and just finished last week and it was fun at first. I found myself catching stuff in the early seasons that I missed the first time and foreshadowing you couldn't even know until the later seasons played out. That being said, I found myself being noticeably bored during some episodes of the later seasons. Once they started going ahead of the books things thinned out for me.

I was expecting more but it was still decent. I feel that they're trying to build into something truly great and if they came out of the gate super hot in episode 1 it would have been difficult to maintain let alone build. That being said, I kind of wish they would have at least tried to set that pace and maintain/better it. If any series in history was established to do that, this is it.

I keep trying to remind myself that the first couple episodes of the season are an hour long and then all the rest are supposed to be 1.5hrs+ each episode. Basically a feature-length movie. When I think of how much character building, plot developing and excitement & epic-ness can occur in just one movie I'm hopeful for the future of this series even though there's only 5 episodes left. I hope this lives up to how well it started so many years ago. If it whimpers down the finish after how the series started it will be something that makes history for TV/movies alright but not in the way creators are hoping for.

We came out of the gate slow but let's hope for a massive burst forward and a strong finish.

Korgs130

04-16-19, 08:50

Like Will, I enjoyed the the premier even though it was not perfect. My wife and I spend the last 2 months rewatching the series from the beginning. I found the show even better the second time through.

Prediction:

Tyrion Lannister is the third Dragon (ie a Targaryen) an is the bastard son of The Mad King, Aerys II Targaryen and Joanna Lannister. There is ample evidence for this (some book SPOILERS below):

- Tywin Lannister made several allusions to the possibility Tyrion wasn’t his. He talked about raising Tyrion as a Lannister because he couldn’t prove that he wasn’t actually his son. His dying words were, “You’re no son of mine.”

- Daenerys Targaryen’s mother died giving birth to her, Aegon Targaryen’s (Jon Snow) mother died giving birth to him as did Tyrion’s mother.

- Tyrion’s interaction with the dragons in Meereen when he goes to the dungeon to unchain them. The only others the dragons allow to get that close are Daenerys and Jon Snow.

- In the books there are several references to how much Aerys II loved Joanna Lannister (Lannister was also her maiden name) who served as Aerys’ sister and future wife Rhaella’s handmaiden. There were also rumors that Aerys took Joanna’s maidenhood and that she was one of his paramours.

- While Tywin served as Aery’s Hand, Joanna and their children Jamie and Cersei lived at Casterly Rock. They did come to Kings Landing for Aery’s 10 anniversary tournament. Joanna had some interaction with the Mad King while there. The following year she gave birth to Tyrion.

WillBrink

04-22-19, 14:22

My GOT Predictions 🤔🤔🤔

The Night King will win, everyone dies in the North. Cersei Lannister, realizing it's hopeless after The North falls and a few survivors make it to her pad to show it's hopeless, heads for the island of Asha Yara Greyjoy, where it ends not knowing if that's the one place they can survive or not. The End. You don't think the makers of GOT would do that to us? 7 past seasons suggests otherwise! Long live the Night King!

I see no reason the end will be any more feel good "hoora for the good guys" as any prior seasons, which pretty finds the ruthless and violent win over the the well meaning and moral.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

04-22-19, 14:44

My GOT Predictions ��

The Night King will win, everyone dies in the North. Cersei Lannister, realizing it's hopeless after The North falls and a few survivors make it to her pad to show it's hopeless, heads for the island of Asha Yara Greyjoy, where it ends not knowing if that's the one place they can survive or not. The End. You don't think the makers of GOT would do that to us? 7 past seasons suggests otherwise! Long live the Night King!

I see no reason the end will be any more feel good "hoora for the good guys" as any prior seasons, which pretty finds the ruthless and violent win over the the well meaning and moral.

That seems like a very fitting ending if written by Martin, but Weiss and Benoiff are a little more feel good and I'd be surprised to see it go that bleak.

Jellybean

04-22-19, 15:13

I'm still sitting here thinking about Dany's vision in the house of the undying from season 2 where she's in the burnt-out throne room in the Red Keep with snow falling....
There's a couple ways to get to that that could be...interesting. I'm still betting Cersi will go full-metal-mad king and be like "BUHN DEM!" and Jamie will kingslay her, and just the palace will roast.
OR,
The dragons burn it down after the night king is dealt with.
I have almost a strange guess, that Dany is not meant to BE the ruler of Westerors, she's more a facilitator to bring a new ruler to power. I think the "bittersweet" ending they've hinted at may be her finally coming to this realization. Or not, because SJW politics... :rolleyes:
That being said, I seriously doubt Jon would want it.... I have a gleeful fantasy that at the very end, Tyrion takes the throne as the King of Tits and Wine... :laugh:
Or maybe the 7 kingdoms split into independent rule, truly "breaking the wheel", each area ruled over by one of those intended by various prophecies and claims of rulership.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-22-19, 17:29

The crypts are not as safe as everyone thinks they are...

Would Dany lure the night kings in and then burn everything around her? Can Jon Snow do the same?

The last Byrathian guy and Arya start it all over....

OR can Araya make a whitewalker mask?? She's an assassin, not a warrior.

"Lady" Moremont dies in a pile of Dragon Stone, Covered in Zombie dust.... She's the only true hero in the whole damn show.

Here's hoping for some nods to the Frozin, Chosin fight from Korea...

Should haves from E2:
When Briania is asked if she would fight beside Jamie Lanister, she should of said "To the death".

Arya should have at least given us some hand-on-boob with some underboob showing...

Speaking of Gendrey and the chicks he sleeps with, when is Melisandre going to show up and do something useful?

jpmuscle

04-22-19, 18:40

Omg I finally got caught up last night

GoT is

GOAT
GOAT
GOAT

In the closing scene they should have dropped the Night Kings dragon in front of the walkers for some theatrics

I was giddy when John Snow told Daeneyrs he’s the rightful king.

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FromMyColdDeadHand

04-22-19, 19:24

Neither has seemed phazed by the incest part... Royals gonna royal.

WillBrink

04-23-19, 08:13

Neither has seemed phazed by the incest part... Royals gonna royal.

Royals did and do, so a minor ripple at best. :meeting:

sundance435

04-23-19, 13:18

Neither has seemed phazed by the incest part... Royals gonna royal.

Compared to brother/sister (Jamie/Cersei), aunt and nephew seems pretty tame. I think there was some non-verbal allusion to the weirdness of it by both characters in 8.2, though. And Jon being the legitimate heir is how it would have worked in most real royal families - nothing new there.

SPOILERS AHEAD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Speaking of, I think episode 2 of this season is one of my favorites from the past few seasons. Episode 1 was a 6/10, but episode 2 was a 8.5-9/10. I loved the different interactions between all of the characters together, many of whom had never shared a scene before. Were there dumb parts? Yeah. If I was Maisie Williams, I'd try to get whomever writes the Arya part fired. She's so boring now - the tough-girl act has worn very thin. The opening scene with Jamie was just fantastic, as was his scene with Bran, and the knighting of Brienne. I didn't even mind the fact that there was no action because I liked the interactions so much.

I have probably unrealistic hopes for episode 3, which will be the longest of the series. As others have pointed out, it's looking less and less like Dany is a "good guy" and I think her path to the iron throne is becoming narrower. There are quite a few plausible ways she is not living at the end of the season. Jon is, simply, too much of a moron to be King of the Seven Kingdoms. At this point, my money is on Sansa. Either she's dead at the end or the queen. Jaime, who I don't think is going to survive, is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. Bronn, The Hound, and Jaime are the best, with new Sansa being a close 4th. I honestly couldn't care less about Jon, Dany, or Arya at this point.

My predictions for Episode 3:

- Entirely possible that the "White Walker" plotline comes to an end in this episode, leaving 3 episodes to deal with the aftermath. There's way too much out there beyond the Night King to resolve to have him around until the final episode. It'll be great disservice to the fans if they drag that out any more.
- Who slays the Night King? My prediction is Jaime, but either dies in the process or is dead by episode 6
- Either Jorah or Brienne, or both, die in the battle.
- Grey Worm dies/is turned. You don't talk about running away with a woman the night before a mega-battle and expect to be alive at the end of it.
- Melisandre makes an appearance in some form. She has a central role to play in the outcome of many of the plotlines. Plus, Varys still has to die.

Rest of the season questions/thoughts:

- Either Jon or Dany, or both, have to die. No way they both survive everything if many plotlines are going to be closed.
- That begs the question - how dark are the Weiss and Benioff going to go? If a significant portion of the main and secondary characters are alive at the end, then it's a creative failure. In my mind, in addition to either Jon or Dany, either Arya or Sansa dies. Tormund or Brienne die. I think it's very possible that there are no Lannisters left in the end, too.
- Who's the Valonqar that kills Cersei? Obvious choice is Tyrion, Jaime is a possibility (I don't think he makes it back from Winterfell), but it doesn't have to be a Lannister. My dark-horse contender is Theon.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-23-19, 13:22

Jon is a dumb-ass. His character has made one bad decision after another.

Lady Mormont FTW!!!!

docsherm

04-23-19, 13:31

I will say it...... Tyrion is the bastard son of the Mad King...

He is only half Lannister and half Dragon....... his mom had an affair with the Mad King when Tywin was the hand to the King.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

04-23-19, 14:36

I will say it...... Tyrion is the bastard son of the Mad King...

He is only half Lannister and half Dragon....... his mom had an affair with the Mad King when Tywin was the hand to the King.

"You are no son of mine." -Tywin Lannister.

docsherm

04-23-19, 14:38

"You are no son of mine." -Tywin Lannister.

Exactly........ sonders he take the Iron Throne from his sister?

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-23-19, 14:48

Exactly........ sonders he take the Iron Throne from his sister?

I think he might take the Jon Snow deal that Dany gave him... ;)

jpmuscle

04-25-19, 12:13

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Boy Scout

04-25-19, 17:26

My predictions:

Dany takes the throne.

Jon kills the Night King, and in doing so, becomes the new Night King. He sacrifices himself as the new Night King thus killing off all the white walkers and wights.

Tyrion is the third head of the dragon and remains as Dany’s Hand.

Jaime dies in the upcoming battle.

Still looking for that connection to the snow in the Red Keep and how Cersei buys it, I’m guessing Tyrion. Or she and Dany get into it hoodrat-style and take their earrings out and throw down (preferably in a kiddie pool full of Jello and nekkid.)

Circle_10

04-25-19, 19:37

Some of my predictions.

Dany starts turning cray-cray, and it looks like she might go full Mad Queen but the power of love of some contrived bullshit brings her back from the brink. Later, she dies in childbirth. "Promise me, Jon..."

Jon is King of the Seven Kingdoms.

The remaining dragons die in combat against the army of the dead.

Jaime dies. Possibly on the battlefield or possibly at the hands of the undead Mountain after killing Cersei.

The Hound kills his undead brother and survives, swears off violence and becomes a septon like the guy played by Ian McShane who nursed him back to health a couple seasons back.

Tyrion and Sansa stay married....again the power of love or something stupid like that.

Dolorous Edd dies.

Jorah Mormont becomes commander of the Night's Watch. Sam becomes the Maester at Castle Black.

Tormund and Brienne both survive and it's left ambiguous if they ever get together.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-25-19, 21:07

Sam's got a wife and a kid, he goes back to the Citadel.

So just laying it out, you have 4 episodes. Now, my guess is that they will sequentially deal with the WW and then Cersie. So you start the big battle next episode and then win it by amazing stuff in the next, then onto Cersie for a similar arc, but you still need some time to tie up the lose ends, assuming that there are many left.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

04-25-19, 23:23

I just can't believe we have to wrap up 8 years of intrigue in 4 episodes. No matter how they do it, its a bummer.

ramairthree

04-26-19, 02:01

I agree with the Jamie has to die.

He has had an amazing character arc/development.

From arrogant love to hate oath breaking evil bad guy,
To Finding out he saved thousands breaking that oath,
A hint he nay not really be so narcissistic and evil,
But full of self loathing over all he has given up and done for love for his horrible sister-
At root an honorable man that did so much wrong he can never settle the score on but trying.

They took someone so evil and despised and easy to hate,
And a few years later it was a kick in the balls watching him lose his daughter.

I kind of hope he dies killing his sister, but I don’t see how it could be set up at this point.

This series has also had one of the most soul killing scenes in film,
When you find an innocent, normal young boy spent the rest of his life a semi mindless imbecile when he experienced his future self being ripped apart and dying a piece at a time.

It has been interesting to follow.
People so honorable and honest they cannot survive.
Good people doing horrible things,
Bad people from the underbelly of war that choose to do good if they feel like it like Braun and the Hound.
Dumbasses bumbling trying to do right in a role for much smarter men like John Snow,

Etc.

I also wish there was a little more time to wrap things up.
So much wasted time in many episodes in the preceding season or two.

Grand58742

04-26-19, 09:57

Grand58742

04-26-19, 10:09

Taking a page out of things folks have talked about over the last couple of pages...

Tyrion is actually a child of the Mad King (House Targaryen) and his mother (House Lannister) which gives him as much claim to the throne as Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryen (child of House Stark and House Targaryen). Too many references have been given out in the previous seven seasons for him not to be potentially a Targaryen. When he killed Tywin Lannister, Tywin claims "You're no son of mine." Maybe metaphorical? Maybe literal? In an earlier scene Tywin also states he only took care of Tyrion because "he couldn't prove he wasn't a Lannister." Maybe the wife told Tywin later it wasn't his son, but there was doubt when Tyrion was born? Plus, outside of Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen, Tyrion is the only one that's messed with the dragons and not gotten eaten.

My theory is Tyrion and Jon Snow are related via House Targaryen. Which is maybe why Tywin (other than her having boobs and a great backside) thinks highly of Daenerys. Which is maybe why he bonded with Jon Snow early in Season 1. There's a connection there by blood between the three characters. Extremely intertwined GoT thinking on that one.

Now, the wild card.... Arya (House Stark) and Gendry (House Baratheon) got together in Episode 802. Arya gets preggers from that encounter and now you have another child with the potential to lay claim to the throne since you now have two powerful Houses tied by blood as alluded to by Robert Baratheon in Season 1. Just not the children he was speaking of...or was it? It's GoT so anything is possible.

Anyway, in an extreme GoT convoluted, intertwined, "shit just got crazy" theory Tyrion hooks up with Sansa at some point after Episode 803. The Red Woman makes an appearance and tells her it will be a boy which will now be House Stark, House Targaryen and House Lannister. Child can lay claim to the throne since you have two of the most powerful houses in Westeros and the legitimate lineage of the royal lines in a single person. Sansa and Tyrion become the "new" Jamie and Cersei since Sansa already is getting a dark side to her.

Alex V

04-26-19, 10:13

Neither has seemed phazed by the incest part... Royals gonna royal.

To be fair, in recent time the only high born women Jon has been around are his aunt, his nieces a 300 year old which and Brienne who is spoken for by his BFF. Of those choices, I would take the aunt too.

I will say it...... Tyrion is the bastard son of the Mad King...

He is only half Lannister and half Dragon....... his mom had an affair with the Mad King when Tywin was the hand to the King.

He is most likely a bastard of Aerys II but not all Targaryen are dragons. Remember Viserys was a full blooded Targaryen but still got killed by molten gold. Jon is half Targaryen but was burnt by a torch when a wight awoke in Castle Black. Dani is the only dragon. Again, with Viserion dead I doubt they will explore Tyrion's Targaryen roots since the "Three Heads Of The Dragon" thing kinda died with Viserion.

Circle_10

04-26-19, 10:14

Bronn?

Goes north, conflicted about killing the Lannister brothers but decides to go through with it because that's who he has always told himself he is - someone who kills for the highest bidder, no matter who that may be - , so his foray north is as much about proving to himself that he hasn't gone soft as it is about the prospect of reward. Through a series of events however, he ends up getting killed saving Jamie or Tyrion instead. Thus revealing his true nature, to others and himself.

jpmuscle

04-26-19, 10:15

I miss Hodor

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Grand58742

04-26-19, 10:20

Goes north, conflicted about killing the Lannister brothers but decides to go through with it because that's who he has always told himself he is - someone who kills for the highest bidder, no matter who that may be - , so his foray north is as much about proving to himself that he hasn't gone soft as it is about the prospect of reward. Through a series of events however, he ends up getting killed saving Jamie or Tyrion instead. Thus revealing his true nature, to others and himself.

I think he ends up double crossing Clyburn/Cersei and allying himself with Jamie or Tyrion (both?).

Plus, I'm not entirely positive Cersei sanctioned that assassination since she wasn't in the picture when Clyburn ordered it. She already had the chance to kill Jamie and didn't go through with it.

grnamin

04-26-19, 10:31

Valar morghulis.

Alex V

04-26-19, 10:50

Valar Dohaeris ;)

Jellybean

04-26-19, 21:09

SPOILERS/predictions:

-The crypt is not as safe as anyone thinks. And we all KNOW nothing can turn out well after Grey Worm jinxing the whole thing...
My prediction is, somehow, against all odds they win big on the battlefield, and when they come back everyone they put in that crypt to keep safe is dead.
OR, failing that, the battle is a pyrrhic victory, and the people in that crypt are pretty much all that survives.... After all, we all know no carefully laid battle plan survives contact with Jon Snow... :laugh:

- Bronn is going to get halfway north before having an attack of nostalgia for all the good times he's had with Tyrion and Jaimie, and be like "bros before hoes" and turn around. One day shortly afterward, Cersie will be surprised to hear that a wagonful of gold has returned. Bronn will end up crossbowing someone else instead at a critical moment.
Or he'll roll up to Winterfell after the battle, IF Tyrion survives, and hand him the crossbow like "I believe this is yours..." and then Tyrion will crossbow Cersei if/after Jaimie dies fighting the WW...

-Speaking of which, Euron is not an idiot. When he gets back to the ship and finds Asha/Yara gone, he is going to know EXACTLY what's going on, he's gonna lose his shit....and f*** everything up for Cersei when he sails off with the Golden Company back to the iron islands to kill her and Theon...
Then one or two things could happen-
Euron's going to want to take the Iron Islands, but hasn't got enough men of his own to do it, so he'll try to get the Golden Company involved, but they're not going to want to play, so he's going to have to challenge her directly. There's no way Asha is going to beat him one on one, but she's going to try anyway because A) she thinks she has to and B) she can get to cocky for her own good at times. After he splatters Asha, he's going to be all happy and shit, but he's going to get clubbed down by Damphair and his acolytes for being a kinslayer... Plus, I'm sure at some point his role in his brother-king's previous nosedive off a rope bridge will come to light as well.
OR...Euron is going to *attempt* to rage-quit the Westeros campaign, but the Golden Company is going to have none of that, since according to the books, they're extremely loyal mercs once they're bought, and they're going to mutiny, kill Euron and his goons, and take over the Ironborn fleet...

-Beric Dondarion is going to die for the 20th or so, and final time fighting the WW. The Hound will find that after all, he's not so scared of fire or death anymore, take up Beric's fire sword and STACK BODIES before also dying, before being raised back up by Melisandre, thus becoming the new "avatar" of the Lord of Light. He'll win fighting against his undead brother for the same reason Beric survived fighting him... #doubleknockout

-After the war is over, and whoever takes the throne is exploring the Red Keep, they will end up in the cells and find that the two Dornish bitches have died a rightfully miserable death. And I will clap.

OR...I am probably completely wrong about everything... :laugh:

jpmuscle

04-27-19, 13:53

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FromMyColdDeadHand

04-27-19, 15:43

Everyone in the Norht dies and Cersie pulls another green fire miracle and wins the seven thrones by default. She is the only leader left, so she gets to write the history and is known as the savior of the 7 kingdoms...

docsherm

04-27-19, 18:37

Jer

04-27-19, 18:44

Boring........... :no:

They have made several references over the years to "ruling over the ashes" so it would be fitting that at the end the one character with zero redeeming qualities ends up doing just that.

jpmuscle

04-28-19, 10:42

They have made several references over the years to "ruling over the ashes" so it would be fitting that at the end the one character with zero redeeming qualities ends up doing just that.

Someone finna rule over the ashes

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SteyrAUG

04-28-19, 15:18

Someone finna rule over the ashes

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Would still be better than how they ended the Soprano's.

Circle_10

04-28-19, 16:38

I have to assume Dany's vision in the House of the Undying back in like Season 2, where she sees the throne room, but it's been burnt and snow is falling through the hole in the roof and gathering on everything, including the throne itself, has to mean something (Snow on the Iron Throne)

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-28-19, 19:03

As a last ditch effort, Tyrion calls down dragon fire air support on his position, and he walks out alive.

Mostly he is pissed that he hasn’t been using that trick to get rid of STDs.

WillBrink

04-28-19, 21:36

I will just say, way more major characters survived then I was expecting, perhaps more than should have considering how dire it was.

Vegas

04-28-19, 22:51

That was a tough episode to make story wise I would think. I thought there might be a cliffhanger at the end rather than kind of wrapping it up with the win.

MountainRaven

04-28-19, 23:05

The combination of Unsullied (with their phalanxes) and dragons should have been more effective against the, er, undead than they were.

Still. Three episodes down, three to go. I'm guessing next episode will be clean up from this one and preparing to go to King's Landing to bring Cersei to task for failing to send her forces to fight the Night King, the episode after that will be the battle against Cersei at King's Landing, and the last episode will be the wrap-up and epilogue.

WillBrink

04-28-19, 23:10

The combination of Unsullied (with their phalanxes) and dragons should have been more effective against the, er, undead than they were.

The numbers alone simply could not be stopped until the center of control was killed. They knew that all along. That much worked well.

Still. Three episodes down, three to go. I'm guessing next episode will be clean up from this one and preparing to go to King's Landing to bring Cersei to task for failing to send her forces to fight the Night King, the episode after that will be the battle against Cersei at King's Landing, and the last episode will be the wrap-up and epilogue.

Cersei will remain alone on the Iron Thrown :)

MountainRaven

04-28-19, 23:18

Cersei will remain alone on the Iron Thrown :)

Cersei will be dead before the season is over. It is known. The only questions are:

-Does she kill herself - or does she die at someone else's hand?
-How many will die before she dies?

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-28-19, 23:30

Wow.

Need to process...

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-28-19, 23:42

That was a tough episode to make story wise I would think. I thought there might be a cliffhanger at the end rather than kind of wrapping it up with the win.

Thought so too. For a second, I thought the white king was going to kneel before Brand.

The combination of Unsullied (with their phalanxes) and dragons should have been more effective against the, er, undead than they were.

.

Their use air assets sucked. Get a lufberry circle going above the clouds for mutual support for cripses sake...

Lady Moremont, like a boss....

Circle_10

04-28-19, 23:47

Wow....Arya ex machina or what?
Rather contrived in my opinion.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-29-19, 00:22

Wow....Arya ex machina or what?
Rather contrived in my opinion.

OR can Araya make a whitewalker mask?? She's an assassin, not a warrior.

"Lady" Moremont dies in a pile of Dragon Stone, Covered in Zombie dust.... She's the only true hero in the whole damn show.

Earlier quote. Araya’s an assassin, she assassined- and she used that move against Briene in their mock fight. Suffice to say, she leads in body count now....

And my girl went out swinging.

The Dumb Gun Collector

04-29-19, 01:16

That was a big bunch of nothing. They basically killed off a bunch of red shirts and supporting dead-enders. Then the Night King, scourge of thousands of years, just got stabbed and died while he was staring at a dude in a wheel chair. Some of the safest tv I’ve seen. They are too chicken to do anything but fan service now. Hell, they may bring Khalil Drogo back for the ladies if they can afford it.

JulyAZ

04-29-19, 01:27

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Serpico1985

04-29-19, 05:31

-The writers set out to confirm they can’t write a good story without GRRM’s book to go buy and they did so breathtakingly. -Que the Benny Hill music for Jon and Danny ruining into each other on their dragons.
-The first character anyone cares about they chose to kill on screen is not only an 11 year old girl but done so brutally, wow.
-Was that an episode of GOT or world war Z?
-Why couldn’t they give Jorah and Berrick (apparently the only main characters they killed off) a dying line? It was kinda like at the end of season two of True Detective when Colin Ferrel tries to upload a “I love you” message to his son but it doesn’t work.
-WTF

Grand58742

04-29-19, 07:31

Some takeaways...

Lyanna Mormont is a true badass.

Job posting on the Winterfell community boards for regent of Bear Island.

Arya Stark confirmed she is a badass.

Jon Snow, kinda a badass, but WTF screaming at the dragon?

Library scene took away from the main story. Unnecessary IMO.

Another job posting as "Wanted, new Night King."

WTF was Bran warging about with the ravens?

Theon redemption, turned into true badass. For a dude with all kinds of bad luck, he turned out with honor.

Ghost survived (spoiler from the Episode 4 teaser). One badass direwolf.

Take down "missing direwolf" posters on boards.

If I was Cersei, I'd be trying to figure out how to change my eye color.

Dothraki horde <yawn>. Dothraki horde with flaming swords? Straight to badass level.

Job opening for "Dothraki head screamer."

Scene with Tyrion and Sansa in the crypt. Anyone else say "Don't do it!"?

Sam needs to be reminded Edd died because he was a whimpering little girl.

Hoping Sam didn't survive, but figure they'll bring him in for the finale.

Jorah went out like a boss. With honor and fighting until the end.

Who the hell puts their artillery in front of the lines?

Wyte Walker Generals are more useless than the Night King's PSD.

Melisandre should invest in a pocket torch. That would save a lot of time.

Anyone else wish the Army of the Dead would have finished off Brienne just to make her shut up?

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-29-19, 07:38

The way the Dothraki went out was at once an interesting cinema technique and at the same time a way to cut the CGI budget. I feel that is a common thing in the series- which IS BS considering how popular it is.

Sam, Jamie, Brienne, and gendry should all be toast.

I still like the episode, but this is where I think the short cutting of only six episodes rears its head. One episode for the battle that has been coming for 10,000+ years?

They did foreshadow Araya with the knife move against Brienne and that she snuck up on Bran at the tree earlier.

WTF was Bran warging about with the ravens?

A WTF FTW of WTFs. I kept on thinking that he was going to bring polar bears or some horde of animals to blunt the attack. Basically, he just rolled his eyes into his head like he was polishing his knight king- didn't give any intel, didn't influence the battle. And I guess as a major plot hole- why does the knight king want him anyways? Bran was the focus and drive of the WW army- but why exactly?

Circle_10

04-29-19, 07:58

Glad Ghost seems to have survived. Although I don't know why because he's basically just part of the landscape in almost every scene he's in.
He's just some green-screened prop superimposed into the background, not interacting with Jon at all and because he's not actually in the scene, his lack of attentiveness to things occurring around him looks very unrealistic, because being totally zoned out to his surroundings isn't what you'd expect out of a wolf or even a halfway decent dog.

Jer

04-29-19, 09:13

WillBrink

04-29-19, 09:34

I tend to agree with most of the lack-luster comments after last night's episode. The first disappointment was when I saw the run time was only 1hr 10 minutes when I had heard multiple times this episode would be 1hr 30 minutes minimum because only a feature-length movie run time could capture what should be an epic feature-length type battle. The disappointments continued with what seemed like poorly planned out plot, dialog and tactics all the way to poor CG. I'm sorry but a series that has leaned heavily on "production values" to have massive scenes of blackness, whiteness and compressed lack of detail is unacceptable in the final battle for the greatest TV series of all time. People crap on Michael Bay for over use of CG for production value but I could have used a lot more of that for something like this. For a series that took nearly two years off to get it right and to come to the table with only six episodes of the production value we've seen thus far... I'm hugely disappointed. It's been "alright" but that's simply not good enough to close this series.

Even GOT is a victim of the PC progressive times and likely unable/unwilling to push the boundaries as they once did. It's ending is well timed. Not that I wanted to see them go per se, but way too many main characters survived to be even remotely realistic/GOT like. Was it just me or were scenes so dark you couldn't see what was going on? I had to pause it and turn the brightness to max to see what was going on. The segment where it was music over the action was really well done.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-29-19, 10:56

rero360

04-29-19, 11:16

On the 'blackness' : two words:

Signal and OLED.

I got a Sony 65inch OLED just because of episodes like this. Yes they were dark and full of terrors, but I thought the scenes were viewable.

I think that the signal that gets to boxes is sometimes 1080P, but the compression is bad and makes those scenes worse. Think of watching a movie over comastHD, a Blue ray Disk and a 4K itunes.

I have a pretty nice SUHD samsung TV, but I did find some scenes hard to follow, I've been wanting an OLED for a while now (having a baby delays purchases like that), probably about the same size you have, I feel anything bigger would be out of proportion with my living room. Once I get the TV, I'll spring for all of GoT on BluRay, or 4K if they ever release it as such and rewatch it from the beginning.

Jer

04-29-19, 11:17

On the 'blackness' : two words:

Signal and OLED.

I got a Sony 65inch OLED just because of episodes like this. Yes they were dark and full of terrors, but I thought the scenes were viewable.

I think that the signal that gets to boxes is sometimes 1080P, but the compression is bad and makes those scenes worse. Think of watching a movie over comastHD, a Blue ray Disk and a 4K itunes.

The video file I watched was 1080p but was only 6.8Mbps which is fairly low for a 1080p file. They generally are twice that so I think I just got a highly compressed file. While I'm not fully blaming GoT devs for these crushed blacks and an almost inability to keep up with the action in some scenes my statements about lazy CG and intentionally doing things to save production resources earlier applies to scene composition choices that were clearly made in a money/time saving effort. Display tech and stream rate can assist the viewing experience but they can't produce detail that was never there to begin with however.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-29-19, 13:02

The video file I watched was 1080p but was only 6.8Mbps which is fairly low for a 1080p file. They generally are twice that so I think I just got a highly compressed file. While I'm not fully blaming GoT devs for these crushed blacks and an almost inability to keep up with the action in some scenes my statements about lazy CG and intentionally doing things to save production resources earlier applies to scene composition choices that were clearly made in a money/time saving effort. Display tech and stream rate can assist the viewing experience but they can't produce detail that was never there to begin with however.

Totally agree on the lack of forethought and direction- extending all the way to Melisandre having to go out like she did.

On tv’s, I have a Sony card, so,when I get a couple of grand in points, I buy a TV. I think 65 is almost too large for 20 x15 room. From 10 feet, a weak 1080p looks rough since it is so ‘big’. 4K looks awesome,but so much cable is crappy HD, or worse, unless you can get a fair amount of 4K, or sit further back- a 55 is a good balance. That said, a 65 at 10-12 feet feels like a cinema with a good signal.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

04-29-19, 13:28

What a wasted season. 3 episodes in and we havent eliminated a single player in the "Game" of Thrones. Such a safe episode, there is literally no peril for main characters anymore.

Jer

04-29-19, 14:04

Totally agree on the lack of forethought and direction- extending all the way to Melisandre having to go out like she did.

On tv’s, I have a Sony card, so,when I get a couple of grand in points, I buy a TV. I think 65 is almost too large for 20 x15 room. From 10 feet, a weak 1080p looks rough since it is so ‘big’. 4K looks awesome,but so much cable is crappy HD, or worse, unless you can get a fair amount of 4K, or sit further back- a 55 is a good balance. That said, a 65 at 10-12 feet feels like a cinema with a good signal.

I've got some 70's and a 139" ...room size be damned!

About the lowest I go for resolution is 1080p with large portions being 2k/4k and generally compression rate is at least as good as you will find from cable provider's feed compression rate. I don't watch via Comcast or anything like that so signal is a non-issue for me. While I agree that I could have got a slightly less compressed file which would have helped I still don't think that my complaints about the picture quality have much to do with what you're talking about since I fully understand how these aspects work. I think that the file I watched was every bit as good or better PQ than what 99% of the people who watched it via HBO or similar got.

Jer

04-29-19, 14:10

What a wasted season. 3 episodes in and we havent eliminated a single player in the "Game" of Thrones. Such a safe episode, there is literally no peril for main characters anymore.

This is another one if my big gripes. Early GoT drew me in because it felt like nobody was safe. Anything could happen at any time to anyone in the story. It sucked you in because it felt more like reality in that the good guy isn't always saved in the nick of time or the bad guy doesn't always get what was coming to them. It made you appreciate the characters more and when you lost one you liked it made the impact bigger.

Now, at the final season and literally the final episodes of the saga it feels like most characters are off limits. This is the time in the series that other shows have gone outside of the box and shocked everyone because... who cares, right? This series, who gained it's fame due in large part to the feeling that anything can happen at any time, just had the most predictable episode of the series... during the epic battle they've been building up for 7 seasons now. In a series where supposedly nobody is safe. In a situation where the walls were overrun and it seemed like all was lost.... everyone lived.

Dafuq GoT?

Alex V

04-29-19, 14:15

This is another one if my big gripes. Early GoT drew me in because it felt like nobody was safe. Anything could happen at any time to anyone in the story. It sucked you in because it felt more like reality in that the good guy isn't always saved in the nick of time or the bad guy doesn't always get what was coming to them. It made you appreciate the characters more and when you lost one you liked it made the impact bigger.

Now, at the final season and literally the final episodes of the saga it feels like most characters are off limits. This is the time in the series that other shows have gone outside of the box and shocked everyone because... who cares, right? This series, who gained it's fame due in large part to the feeling that anything can happen at any time, just had the most predictable episode of the series... during the epic battle they've been building up for 7 seasons now. In a series where supposedly nobody is safe. In a situation where the walls were overrun and it seemed like all was lost.... everyone lived.

Dafuq GoT?

That is because the early seasons followed Martin's books. Now that the HBO producers have control they can roll in their SJW stuff and the quality will go down. What happened to Azor Ahai? Salt and Smoke? Nah, F it. Let's have a girl kill him with a dagger cause girls rule!

That is my big gripe with this episode. Yes I enjoyed it, yes it was suspenseful but it doesn't seem to acknowledge any of the lore. It was a good episode if you are not a giant GoT dork. Like I said, I enjoyed it, but they should have killed off some major characters.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

04-29-19, 14:24

This is another one if my big gripes. Early GoT drew me in because it felt like nobody was safe. Anything could happen at any time to anyone in the story. It sucked you in because it felt more like reality in that the good guy isn't always saved in the nick of time or the bad guy doesn't always get what was coming to them. It made you appreciate the characters more and when you lost one you liked it made the impact bigger.

Now, at the final season and literally the final episodes of the saga it feels like most characters are off limits. This is the time in the series that other shows have gone outside of the box and shocked everyone because... who cares, right? This series, who gained it's fame due in large part to the feeling that anything can happen at any time, just had the most predictable episode of the series... during the epic battle they've been building up for 7 seasons now. In a series where supposedly nobody is safe. In a situation where the walls were overrun and it seemed like all was lost.... everyone lived.

Dafuq GoT?

Exactly. Ned's death, Joffrey's death, and the Red Wedding were possibly my favorite episodes of any show because they were shocking and emotional. Once GRRM left the fold, I quickly realized that it was a different show. Jon has escaped sure death so many times that I no longer care about his character. It's infuriating that they would mess with such a proven recipe for success. Now, with a few episodes left, they must either kill everyone so quickly that it will be meaningless, or leave everyone alive for some feel-good ending.

Grand58742

04-29-19, 14:25

This is another one if my big gripes. Early GoT drew me in because it felt like nobody was safe. Anything could happen at any time to anyone in the story. It sucked you in because it felt more like reality in that the good guy isn't always saved in the nick of time or the bad guy doesn't always get what was coming to them. It made you appreciate the characters more and when you lost one you liked it made the impact bigger.

Now, at the final season and literally the final episodes of the saga it feels like most characters are off limits. This is the time in the series that other shows have gone outside of the box and shocked everyone because... who cares, right? This series, who gained it's fame due in large part to the feeling that anything can happen at any time, just had the most predictable episode of the series... during the epic battle they've been building up for 7 seasons now. In a series where supposedly nobody is safe. In a situation where the walls were overrun and it seemed like all was lost.... everyone lived.

Dafuq GoT?

I tend to think that's when someone gets completely effed in the next episode.

Jer

04-29-19, 15:00

I tend to think that's when someone gets completely effed in the next episode.

Someone? Singular? Not really that shocking given the shows history. I mean, setting up characters and plots for 8 years only to kill a single important character at the very end seems like the opposite of what this show was.

My prediction prior to S08E03 was an hour and a half of carnage in which most every character we'd come to know and love/hate was destroyed in various unimaginable ways and the final three episodes being how the pieces fell from that vacuum and what played out in the final telling of the story that would be so complete it would justify the end of the entire series in only the way a massive killing of every important character could.

TBH the more I think of it the more season 8 and this episode specifically has been a tremendous build-up for boredom and let down. Can they redeem all of that in only three episodes? Doesn't feel that way and sure as hell doesn't meet my personal GoT standards with everyone of importance riding off in the sunset happily for the "Game of Thrones: Golden Years" spin-off reboot staring the cast from Golden Girls HBO is spinning up for the profit.

Even if they nuke everyone in the next 3hrs... can they do so in a meaningful manner that makes me feel it in the cockles of my soul? Doubtful.

*Gets keyboard warmed up for "epic tirade of how much GoT shit the bed and alienated all of it's fans in the last few seasons with no payoff" rant*

B Cart

04-29-19, 15:11

I felt like last’s night’s episode was entertaining, but definitely lacking in a lot of areas, especially with the Night King’s death. I was hoping Arya would kill one of the night king’s generals in battle, take his face, and then kill the night king while disguised. Or something more than Arya just flying out of nowhere last second and being able to stab the night king so easily.

And what was Bran doing the whole time? He didn’t add anything of value to that battle, aside from baiting the night king, and we’ve never really gotten a good explanation as to why the night king wants Bran so bad.

I also thought they missed the mark by not killing off a main character, however I did like how Joura, Theon, and Lianna Mourment went out.

Overall, i thought it was entertaining, but lacking the true GRRM GOT plot depth.

Grand58742

04-29-19, 15:14

I was hoping Arya would kill one of the night king’s generals in battle, take his face, and then kill the night king while disguised.

Impossible since the only way to kill them is with dragon glass or Valyrian steel in which they fracture and break apart.

Kinda hard to save the face like that.

WillBrink

04-29-19, 15:35

It was visually epic, but could have been the best episode of GOT ever, and was not. Way too many characters survived to be remotely believable and some real WTF moments that detracted from from what could have been a 10/10 GOT episode. But there were moments I was truly and literally on the edge of the seat and it leaves movies like Avengers in the dust by miles. Considering the build up, they played it too safe and wrapped up too neatly, but man the visuals were amazing! A-

Bran, all that build up and the kid was good for exactly nadda. Really not liking that kid...

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-29-19, 16:18

USe the time spent sneaking around in the library to give good deaths to Briene, Jamie and some others.

How about burning the bodies of the newly dead so that they don’t come back- and how some aren’t dead, just wounded- the argument about doing that. Dany having to roast her own troops or Jon having to napalm fat boy.

Or Jon calling down fire from Dany on himself as he fights the night king and them both walking out.

On Araya, they have spent years building her bona rides as a killer, shown the move on Briene, and shown that she can sneak up on a three eye raven who sees all. I don’t see that as an overt SJW move, since she never does any of this at the expense of a male- a signature SJW precept.

ramairthree

04-29-19, 16:54

WillBrink

04-29-19, 17:30

I was fairly satisfied with the episode.

There were a few items I was very disappointed with.

I thought Sam had totally manned up and hit the front. And was tracking that way until he went all sniveling bitch. He deserved a better showing.

I hoped Sansa and Tyrion would make a heroic stand and save people in the crypt. Not necessarily die, but do something honorable vs hiding.

Ser Jorah went out like a boss. I wished deeply for a few dying breaths of him expressing his love for her, but she never understood, it was like a father for a daughter. It would uncreepify things a touch, and he could have heard her express her love for him as a father. He deserved to die knowing the dead army went down, that he saved her, and that she loved him back.

The little Mormont girl also went down like a boss. I could have done without seeing her rise as a wight.

I kind of hoped the red witch would send Arya on her way, hand Davos her necklace, crumble to death as an old women, he would kit up with it and help clear the way for her as a strapping young man- saving a girl to fill the hole in his soul.

Bran should have had some scene showing he contributed something to the battle, a thousand crows dropping flaming arrows on the zombie horde, hundred bears wading into the fray, anything that showed he contributed to slowing stuff down enough to hold out a little longer, with his warging.

And my biggest disappointment,
John Snow. I long thought he would not be the hand that struck down the dead king. But he should have struck his sword between the ice dragon’s eyes and put it down before Arya did in the king. Or at least been back to back with Ser Jorah as they saved their queen. For all his build up, he should have had a feat like that.

Aside from character touches,
The sheer moronic nature of the battle plan was painful to put up with. I am cool with things not being historically correct, or some artistic license to make things seem or look cooler, etc.
I can’t make sense of the plan. it would have cost nothing to put in a few sentences to say, “there is no ideal ground or walled positions for everyone, this is the est we can make of it”, “all trebuchets have fired their twenty rounds each, we have to sacrifice the cavalry thin the horde some more.” Or anything to ameliorate what otherwise looked like total jackassery.

I'm still not clear why Jon out of the blue makes a B line alone for the castle. I thought he said something about Bran, then heads off for the castles where there's no Bran. I also thought he was working his way up to the dragon to attempt a swipe at it, then after working hard to avoid getting cooked, stands up and yells at it. There were a number of WTF moments like that. Anyone know why he took off for the castle leaving Dany standing there alone? That Sam survived at all was annoying. The place was totally overrun, he should have had his face eaten off or something. I can live with the best warriors they had with a wall to their back holding off the hords and all, but Sam was toast. Either he should have been in the cript or he should have died in the battle, but his not dying was bad form to the whole reality of 'gooks in the wire' time. Jon really didn't accomplish much in this one and Bran is as useless apparently as a 3 legged chair.

Battle wise, this is a fun read:

"Take the Dothraki cavalry. Putting that squadron forward of the main line of infantry was doctrinally correct, but the allied commanders did not put it to proper use: screening the allied lines and gaining active intelligence on the enemy. Instead, the Dothraki are ordered forward into an attack before the enemy situation is even known. This move, sometimes known as a “Custer,” predictably ends in ruin for the Dothraki cavalry, who get chewed up and spat out in an unsupported frontal attack. This destruction of the cav squadron leaves the allied forces without their reconnaissance assets."

https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-winterfell-battle-tactical-analysis/?fbclid=IwAR27Se7LtgTT5hsLiUk7A3xshqRMuqHmZq6IVlf8f6I97Pcm7biISSEIZ_Q

MountainRaven

04-29-19, 19:27

I'm still not clear why Jon out of the blue makes a B line alone for the castle. I thought he said something about Bran, then heads off for the castles where there's no Bran. I also thought he was working his way up to the dragon to attempt a swipe at it, then after working hard to avoid getting cooked, stands up and yells at it. There were a number of WTF moments like that. Anyone know why he took off for the castle leaving Dany standing there alone?

Jon was going after the Night King.

The entire thing was him trying to get mano-a-mano with the Night King. With the Night King just walking away and throwing as many minions at him as he could, before finally deciding to drop a dragon on him. And then Jon got angry and frustrated with the undead dragon barring his path.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-29-19, 19:37

I wonder if it isn't over? It sure seems to be, I don't know how or what would happen- but it seems to neat, clean and low on 'death count', at least for main characters. 3 episodes to end Cersei, but one for the existential Night King threat?

Gunnar da Wolf

04-29-19, 20:45

I thought it was a good episode, not great but intensely watchable. It was dark and “fog of war”ish but we didn’t have any trouble watching on our ten year old flat screen.

I thought you generally stayed inside a castle if you were being attacked, especially at night. If nothing else it seems like your heavy infantry would have been better off inside the moat of fire poking holes in attackers as they tried to breach it. The way they used their cavalry seemed wasteful. Lots of dead(ish) red shirts, killed off some “B” team characters. Every plot hint for seven seasons has been that Arya was going to kill someone important, the way they pulled it off was contrived at best. Jon Snow still seems better at strategy than tactics. He can get an army to go in the field but little sister has a higher personal body count. It was a good twist that the Night King raised all the dead in the area including the centuries old Starks in the crypt/inner sanctum.

I’m still pumped to see what they come up with next Sunday...

The Dumb Gun Collector

04-29-19, 21:56

Idiots build a mile high wall a thousand miles long to keep out a dude you could just stab. Apparently he went in for the fireproof clothes but cheaped out on the puncture resistance.

And Bran, worse than useless. "I guess I could tell Theon to hold back for a sec, but f that let him charge pointlessly at the NK. I guess I'll tell his dumb ass he is a good man before he kills himself for nothing." Maybe I'll pretend to pointlessly warg some birds again, I'm tired of hearing him whine about his Weiner."

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-29-19, 22:20

It was all an Araya dream sequence, the real battle is next week, with real tactics...

Jer

04-29-19, 22:22

It was all an Araya dream sequence, the real battle is next week, with real tactics...

The dream sequence angle crossed my mind but that would be even more disappointing than the actual results of this episode.

Jellybean

04-30-19, 00:34

*le sigh*
Obstacles to the front, infantry (spearmen) to pick off anyone that gets through the obstacles/defend barricades, trebuchets to the rear-break up enemy formations as they approach, archers to the wall- suppress the enemy as they attempt to breach the barricades, cav to the flanks for hit and run sweeps once the main body of enemy is engaged at the barricades, dragon gun runs as needed.
I'm not even a trained tactician, come on now... :rolleyes:

Well, all that aside, in the context of the show-

> Bran's warging- sure, would have been nice to play more of a part, BUT, it was intended more to alert the NK to his presence/location, not as a defensive measure.

> Well, Dany just lost another dragon (and almost the third, because the lessons of the Merreen fighting pit were not learned), ALL of her cavalry and most of the Unsullied infantry core of her army. The Northerners/Wildlings already took huge losses between Robb vs Lannisters, the Battle of the Bastards, and now this. I'd be shocked if there's any wildlings left at all after this, let alone core trained infantry from the Great Houses...
I'm dying to see how they contrive an end to the Cersie situation- I don't see Dany and crew winning a conventional war with such decimated forces.
On a grim bright side... Cersei can't drum up any more support against them by saying she "brought Dothraki and a foreign army to our shores", so there's a net win there...

> Perhaps less main characters died in this episode, because they're saving it for later battles? Who knows, but there's some people that wormed their way out of it this time, because obvious plot armor is obvious...

>There's now way in hell Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys should have survived the crypts in that situation...no way.
I was actually kinda hoping Tyrion would have been like "F u I'm going up to see what everyone's missing out on", gets up there, after killing a few WW is like "aww HELL NAH!" comes back down to find all hell breaking loose in the crypt, and Sansa and that little kid that wanted to fight holding off the WW with a couple dragonglass daggers she snuck in, and then Tyrion goes on an epic rampage and slays the rest of the undead before they eat everyone else...like the boss fighter that he actually is (according to the books), but then he'd be all sad because Varys and almost everyone got nom'd...

> There is no way in hell Jaime, Brienne, Pod and Sam all survived that, and yet Beric died for mere want of a secondary weapon. I mean, I guess it's kind of realistically ironic, but still.... Also, why the hell is Sam out there on the FRONT LINES when his lack of fighting ability is well documented and, predictably, ends up getting people killed? He should have been in the Crypt with everyone else....

>Why is Jon yelling at a dragon? :laugh: Also, how is the blue dragon fire NOT melting stone when he's hiding behind it? I was hoping for an epic dragon boss fight, and I was disappointed... Hell, a Jon Snow + Grey Worm Vs Undead Dragon fight could have had some cool possibilities, if I were armchair directing...

>Theon- it was good to see his character get a little spine back, but... the way he was looking after he got stabbaged, I thought he was going to pull out a dragonglass dagger and take a stab at one of the ice kings going past, and then the rest were gonna go full Rabbit on him... Either way, I was hoping he was going to get at least one ice king kill in. Like...it was super predictable he was gonna get taken out easily by the night king, it would have been a nice "surprise muthaf***a!" moment.

> It seems the heads of House Mormont have all always been destined to die fighting with the Starks for the north...
The scene with mini-Mormont was predictable, and I was frankly hoping to see her stick around long enough to sass Cersie, BUT, if her story arc was going to end here, why not kill a giant. :cool:
I think we all knew it was going to end that way for Jorah, one battle or another....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uctRkJ8PCDI

SteyrAUG

04-30-19, 01:32

This episode is everything that has become wrong with the show, and Hollywood in general.

Visuals over story. Now I don't expect advanced military tactics, but at least conform to the existing story line.

Dragon Glass kills white walkers so what did they do first, they basically discarded their dothraki cavalry armed with nothing but fire swords. But this was done to create the visual effect of armies of light disappearing into darkness. So visually creative, so patently stupid from the story line. Basically Dothraki are disposable flunkies armed with pointless weapons. If you gave them some dragon glass they might have wrecked shop a little bit.

And this is repeated with every faction. You have a fire trench, rather than expend your archers and artillery then light the fire trench, what if you lit the fire trench and then reinforced it with archers and artillery? Too easy? A simple way to keep the dead bottled up while you do dragon passes without having to go "danger close" on your own guys.

Also Night King can raise the dead, so should everyone really have been amazed when everything in the crypt came alive?

Also Dany can walk through fire, when the white walkers are after her why doesn't see just lead them all into a flaming lake of fire? Because it's too simple and almost guaranteed to work?

And while everyone is doing things as stupid as possible, lets film it in near total darkness so we can really get away with crappy CGI on a vast scale.

And Little Lady Mormount can kill zombie giant but the unsullied who are professional warriors trained from birth can't really whack a bunch of white walkers with tactics and dragon glass weapons? Hell Same managed to do it by himself. So WTF?!?

Also this show has lots it's teeth and it's willingness to show how bad things can get. We are a long way from the psychological breakdown of Euron to Reek and everything that went along with that process. But compared to the Flayed Men, the Night King was kind of a pussy. Also where was Ninja Assassin Arya Stark BEFORE Euron died a needless death?

This episode was just lazy, they needed to lose some people so they gave them cliched deaths and spent more time dreaming of the visual dragon dogfight in the clouds than the actual story.

I guess at least we got rid of the red lady and the followers of the lord of light. They were goddamn annoying and for all their magical ability didn't seem to do anything meaningful. Tyrion did more with green fire, too bad they didn't have some green fire.

Firefly

04-30-19, 06:37

HUGE SPOILERS

The Final Episode reveals it was a buncha nerds playing Dungeons and Dragons in the basement explaining the sex and gore.

Grand58742

04-30-19, 06:42

> Well, Dany just lost another dragon (and almost the third, because the lessons of the Merreen fighting pit were not learned), ALL of her cavalry and most of the Unsullied infantry core of her army.

FYI, two dragons survived. There are two of them flying from the Episode 4 trailer.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-30-19, 06:51

HUGE SPOILERS

The Final Episode reveals it was a buncha nerds playing Dungeons and Dragons in the basement explaining the sex and gore.

They are even making it more clear in the opening credits that the whole world of GoT is on the INSIDE of a sphere, not the outside....

Circle_10

04-30-19, 06:55

HUGE SPOILERS

The Final Episode reveals it was a buncha nerds playing Dungeons and Dragons in the basement explaining the sex and gore.

At this point I'd actually respect the showrunners a bit more if they did this. Talk about some epic trolling.

Firefly

04-30-19, 07:08

At this point I'd actually respect the showrunners a bit more if they did this. Talk about some epic trolling.

Yep they are all sitting around a table with a box that literally says "Game of Thrones" in 80s font with knockoff Boris Vallejo art and the players are a skinny girl with greasy hair and yellow teeth wearing a tacky kitten sweater, a super dorky black boy with a box cut hair and an overbite, a morbidly obese kid with severe acne and the DM is a creepy dude in late 20s who is prematurely balding and way too old to banging with these dweebs.

The last line should be "HAROLD! YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS STOP PLAYING YOUR GAME AND COME EAT BEFORE THESE CHICKEN TENDERS GET COLD!"

WillBrink

04-30-19, 08:02

Jer

04-30-19, 09:08

FYI, two dragons survived. There are two of them flying from the Episode 4 trailer.

My wife and I were having a big argument over exactly this and had to rewind the trailer because I was certain that (I know the names but not well enough to know who was on what dragon so bear with me) Dragon #1 (ice dragon) was ripped apart by Dragon #2 (Jon's dragon) and died in that battle and then dragon #3 (Dany's dragon) was engulfed by WW and flew up to it's death unable to shake free and finally returning to battle Jon up close as he hid behind a wall and then Dany ended up on his dragon later or Dragon #2. The story line did a very poor job of even presenting the most basic of facts to us in a concise manner. I had to admit defeat to my wife after rewinding the trailer to see that there were indeed two dragons verifying her version of the story.

WillBrink

04-30-19, 10:44

My wife and I were having a big argument over exactly this and had to rewind the trailer because I was certain that (I know the names but not well enough to know who was on what dragon so bear with me) Dragon #1 (ice dragon) was ripped apart by Dragon #2 (Jon's dragon) and died in that battle and then dragon #3 (Dany's dragon) was engulfed by WW and flew up to it's death unable to shake free and finally returning to battle Jon up close as he hid behind a wall and then Dany ended up on his dragon later or Dragon #2. The story line did a very poor job of even presenting the most basic of facts to us in a concise manner. I had to admit defeat to my wife after rewinding the trailer to see that there were indeed two dragons verifying her version of the story.

It was very poorly covered, but there's two dragons left, apparently neither died of their wounds from ice dragon nor a bunch of dead hanging onto them:

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/04/231162/how-many-dragons-left-game-of-thrones-did-rhaegal-die

WillBrink

04-30-19, 10:50

Jon was going after the Night King.

The entire thing was him trying to get mano-a-mano with the Night King. With the Night King just walking away and throwing as many minions at him as he could, before finally deciding to drop a dragon on him. And then Jon got angry and frustrated with the undead dragon barring his path.

I guess so, but it seemed he had some sudden realization, said something to her ( thought he said something about Bran) and ran off toward the castle. He looked quote surprised to run up on the NK.

Grand58742

04-30-19, 12:58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuxmSHyDUYs

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-30-19, 13:14

It is amazing how unattractive Emilia Clark is when she is either smiling or crying, or really anything other than her resting bitch queen face. Those gums and chompers! Gives me the willies. Even the wife noticed it...

Jer

04-30-19, 14:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuxmSHyDUYs

ROTFLSHIDMTAMSFO!

MountainRaven

04-30-19, 14:35

Dragon Glass kills white walkers so what did they do first, they basically discarded their dothraki cavalry armed with nothing but fire swords. But this was done to create the visual effect of armies of light disappearing into darkness. So visually creative, so patently stupid from the story line. Basically Dothraki are disposable flunkies armed with pointless weapons. If you gave them some dragon glass they might have wrecked shop a little bit.

You've confused Euron with Theon. Euron is Theon and Asha/Yara's uncle. Theon was Reek and Ned Stark's ward and died defending Bran from the Night King.

Anyway... I thought the dothraki had dragon glass arakh/swords. In fact, I'm 99.99% certain that every weapon used by the forces of light were either dragon glass or Valyrian steel.

Jellybean

04-30-19, 14:37

New wallpaper material :cool:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58602909_2250373701651879_5904449472053641216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQljT5NTEcryWZe7T4RKf11rSAd4E1Bj_7LJp0Y4GVYZNU-l6Da6V1fmui0YhnRCbr0&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=0646ef132d09f1c70738a73200b609bd&oe=5D6B22DB

Also...
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58461976_10218790645946007_39824165129158656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmw50ZyVK1wJQn6Yb0tKOKC859-OiU9n3zfNkkjst8MHIudZYV4EQNp7SneamRABag&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=8a5a98a6cc6fa708745a176f0463dd6b&oe=5D2B0415

Circle_10

04-30-19, 15:55

It was very poorly covered, but there's two dragons left, apparently neither died of their wounds from ice dragon nor a bunch of dead hanging onto them:

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/04/231162/how-many-dragons-left-game-of-thrones-did-rhaegal-die

One touch I did like was that when we see the ice dragon later on toward the end of the episode, you can see its movements are really uncoordinated and flailing and it's neck is kinda flopping around oddly - the effects of being F'd up by Drogon earlier.

I have a lot of complaints about this episode, and a lot of the other episodes in recent seasons, but there's always little details I can find to appreciate.

sundance435

05-02-19, 15:40

I'm a little late - just watched it yesterday. I was on the fence right after watching it, but now I'm definitely disappointed. So many letdowns:

- The darkness - it's not just your TV, they shot it that way. What an epic waste of what was billed as the most epic battle in cinematic history.
- They spent 7 seasons hyping up the Night King for this?
- Killed off 3 B-team'ers. For a show that made its bones on no character being safe, that was the safest TV play I've seen in a while that wasn't a sitcom.
- Honestly, what really was the point of having Melisandre there? Just as a reminder to Arya? I expected she'd have a much bigger role than THAT.
- Why was Bran warging as ravens for most of the episode? Zero explanation for that.

Then there are the tactics. Yes, let's devote time and resources to building siege machines and put them IN FRONT of the army - you couldn't put even 1 inside the castle?. Yes, let's send our cavalry charging into darkness without any idea of the disposition of the enemy and THEN use the dragons after the cavalry is snuffed out. Only defensive pit like 20 feet in front of the fortifications? Why not. Where are all of the archers? I've read some speculation that it can't be the actual end of the Night King, based on Bran and the 3-eyed Raven's tales, plus the fact that he was hyped up for 7 previous seasons, but I don't see in what meaningful way there's some aspect of the character/storyline that can fit in the next 3 episode.

Everything was a little too on the nose for my liking. There were no real surprises (except that main characters didn't die) - everything was written to account for recent episodes past in a very neat (not "clever"-neat) way and resolved outstanding issues very poorly. The bad outcomes on GoT have been the most satisfying ones and they completely avoided any of that in this episode. If you have to pin it all on "everything happened the way it did for this reason", that's a little too deus ex machina for me.

jpmuscle

05-02-19, 15:46

I watched it last night and I don’t care what anyone says, my dik was hard the entire time.

The ancestors rising from the crypt was a nice touch.

They definitely underutilized their dragons though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WillBrink

05-02-19, 16:51

So i watched it again last night. One thing I mentioned before, that's still confusing: NK blows him off by raising the dead (again) and Jon is now surrounded and screwed. She saves him with some dragon fire. He yells to her "Bran!" She says "Go" and off he goes in a big hurry to the castle. He knows Bran is not at the castle, yet once at the castle, clearly looking for something, and then he's focused on the dragon. What am I missing there?

I can't make any sense of that one, unless there's something going on we will find out about next episode?

jpmuscle

05-02-19, 16:56

Thought he just had to go through the castle to get to bran?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190502/05a1d5278d4dd8dfd3ae4ea728f0ef9f.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-02-19, 16:59

Thought he just had to go through the castle to get to bran?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what I took from that. The white tree is surrounded by wall, with no exterior gates, and attached to the castle.

ramairthree

05-02-19, 18:45

I have already noted some things I wish were done, like SnowGareon killing the dragon, etc.

A lot of people seem to think the Arya kill was a Mary Sue Deus ex machina,
But even as a casual fan I do not.
I have seen each episode once since between when the first season DVDs came out and now. She was a little Tom boy that got a sword maybe as early as the first episode. She had a private fencing master. She got tips from the hound as they traveled together. She got trained as an assassin. She had to fight blind. She trained with the big woman. She was no Mary Sue. She got butt kickings along the way. In near dark she went into beast mode, and got overwhelmed, her bell rung, and have to have help from both a legendary mystic figure who was a renown fighter before the resurrection stuff started and the hound, one of the most feared people to face off with in the kingdoms.

So, any serious fans with knowledge of the books and more viewings of the episodes feel free to tune up my recollection, but she seems to have met the travails of the heroic journey, had all her abilities laid out and previously touched upon, with enough hardship and fails to be neither dues ex machina or Mary Sue.

The issue with it, is since Snow did not kill the dead king, and the dragon fell before he killed that, what mythic, stuff of legends big kill is left for him?

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-02-19, 19:24

Agree, Araya is the most consistent and dedicated warrior when it comes to training and ops. What would KalKev say- she has sand in her boots.

She was in the running for body count before she took out three armies in a single blow. Little bitch has taken out more people than the Pox that Bronn was worried about with the tripple header.

I don't know all the story around the "Azur Ahigh", but she makes the Mountain look like a low utility blunt instrument.

I want to get t-shirts made that have a Lyanna Mormount on them and the text "Stop being a pussy". OR a commercial with her giving a pep talk to one of the Hockey teams.

Jer

05-03-19, 09:28

I was playing some Xbox with a bro the other day and we were playing Fortnite (don't judge... you're all into wizards and dragons... throw stones in a glass house much?) as we discussed the last episode of GoT. It just so happens there's an in-game event going on where the Avengers is featured and you can acquire the individual "powers" of some of the heroes to use in-game which is actually pretty fun. As we discussed the episode and I was flying around with Ironman's gauntlets firing at Thanos I had a revaluation that tied into GoT.

The best way I can summarize it is this:

I haven't seen the new Marvel movie Avengers Endgame so don't worry, no spoilers ahead... just hypothetical. (Please don't spoil it if you've seen it as my goal here isn't to start an Avengers conversation)

GoT is very similar to the Marvel Universe movies in that it's been a long-running set-up to a single movie or event. You enjoyed all of the awesome effects, character build-ups & plot twists over nearly a decade. You even sat through the lame ass episodes/seasons/movies of the character development & lame effects, lack of tits and floppy dongs all in an effort to understand the bigger picture. You fell in love with this world and wanted to know all about it so the next one would hold even more meaning to you. You invested nearly a decade of your life waiting between installments wondering what would happen next and if the antagonist would finally win or if your favorite protagonist would survive. You knew that this was all leading up to a single event to decide the final fate of the characters and all of mankind for that matter. The characters had almost become like family in that some you hated and some you loved but you were invested in their ultimate destiny. You know what each character was capable of; sure their super power was obvious to anyone and even some of their vulnerabilities since, in true superhero lore, none are perfect. You got to know their motivations and character flaws at a level you may be embarrassed to admit publicly. When you find other people who shared your passion for this make-believe fantasy you geek'd out with them about what had transpired and what might happen next based on all of these minute details. Then, when the final chapter comes... you expect ALL of this to materialize and reward you for your loyalty that's measured in a large fraction of your short life on this earth. You go in expecting there to be a seemingly insurmountable force that will require each member of the team to use their special power that they've honed their entire life as an orchestrated single unit that can ONLY overcome by using these individual super powers in a concentrated, calculated and perfectly executed team effort and then... then!

Nothing.

After nearly a decade of build-up and watching characters evolve special and unique characteristics we're left with the one final battle to end all battles where nobody uses their special power to stop what seems like an unstoppable force. Nobody works as a team very well and everyone seems to forget what their one special talent is that got them through other seemingly insurmountable obstacles along the way. For nearly a decade now we've watched them stumble and hone whatever that talent is in an obvious build-up to it's maximum potential that will be required in the battle to end all battles.

Tyrion was often remarked as being the "smartest person alive" and cowered in the crypt and did nothing to "think" his way out of a jam. Sansa's sheer will to live and overcome coupled with Tyrion's intelligence and knack for strategy could have been used to keep everyone alive in that crypt instead of just hiding and crying the whole time. The Mountain was a fierce warrior with countless battles under his belt and he shit himself the whole time. Arya became the girl with no name who was an assassin that could shape shift to other beings and didn't use that at all but instead stabs a guy in the gut while they're face to face in a stroke of luck. Jon is a fierce warrior who's largest contribution to the battle appears to be hiding behind a wall. Daenerys is the damn mother of friggin' dragons who has conquered the entire countryside through sheer will and tactic and seems now to only get her dragons & sworn followers killed through stupidity and arrogance. Melisandre, who should have one of the greatest super powers to fight ice was basically a glorified Bic lighter as her main contribution to the battle. Brienne grew to become one of the fiercest warriors only to shriek and cry (multiple times) like a teenage girl who had her iPad taken away. Sam devoted his life to learning from the most powerful records of human history learning things generations had all but forgotten and when it came time to use that knowledge he pissed himself and ran like a scared school girl. Bran can take over other living humans and animals for crying out loud! We endured 7 damn seasons of that sniveling little piss ant knowing full well is amazing power would eventually be realized and his power would likely save mankind. Several people died to keep him alive for this specific event in time. The possibilities of a power like that are truly endless and instead he flies some blackbirds around for a few seconds seemingly doing nothing. Dafuq!?!

I could go on but you get the point. In the end we were left with a build up to a superhero movie where no superhero used their power and somehow managed to overcome insurmountable forces seemingly by dumb luck. It left people who had invested themselves in the series feeling empty. There was no massive pooling of talents at the end to reward us for following this plot line so closely. It may as well just have been a bunch of random people in that battle bumping dragons into each other in the sky as others on the ground executed idiotic (at best) strategies.

tldr; It was a lot like following the Marvel Universe for nearly a decade only to have the payoff at the end being nobody uses their super power and everybody turns into a sniveling little piss ant and somehow they all luck into a victory. Now that the universe is saved we wait to find out who marries who & who gets what neat car to ride off into the sunset in. The end.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-03-19, 09:33

Damnit Jer, that sums it up pretty nicely.

Jer

05-03-19, 11:05

Damnit Jer, that sums it up pretty nicely.

I said it much more succinctly while we were playing video games but had a chance to elaborate a little more in text so I seized that opportunity. I think that summarizes the disappointment in the plot/story line without even getting into the lack CG and depth they promised would make the long 18-month-wait with only 6 episodes at the end worth the wait. From what I've seen so far I see no reason they didn't have time to produce a 10-episode final season that released months ago to be concluded by now. But even if you don't subscribe to that stance on that aspect surely you can find some relevance in what I stated above about the actual story line & plot.

WillBrink

05-03-19, 11:43

Thought he just had to go through the castle to get to bran?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190502/05a1d5278d4dd8dfd3ae4ea728f0ef9f.jpg

Interesting. In the show at least the tree is quite far off and clearly not within the castle grounds it seemed to me. There's a number shots showing the ditch fire off in the distance.

jpmuscle

05-03-19, 12:56

Interesting. In the show at least the tree is quite far off and clearly not within the castle grounds it seemed to me. There's a number shots showing the ditch fire off in the distance.

I’m pretty certain if you go back to the table planning scene it shows the tree being in close proximity to the castle same as above. If I re-watch it I’ll check

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jpmuscle

05-03-19, 14:45

ETA

I double checked episode 2 and the war map clearly depicts the tree being part of the castle complex.

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FromMyColdDeadHand

05-03-19, 16:07

Interesting. In the show at least the tree is quite far off and clearly not within the castle grounds it seemed to me. There's a number shots showing the ditch fire off in the distance.

I agree, it seemed near, but not ‘in’.

On Jer’s Theory, look at Jon Snow- his best decision was to bang his aunt. Every campaign, every battle, every tactic was a failure.

It might tie into the bigger picture that there are no heroes and no bad guys- the characters have rotated around depending on circumstances and options- with some character traits.

WillBrink

05-03-19, 16:56

ETA

I double checked episode 2 and the war map clearly depicts the tree being part of the castle complex.

At one point Greyjoy says "they've lit the trenches" and what looks pretty far off is a glow from the fire and it's not that close. Hmmmm.

jpmuscle

05-03-19, 17:33

I think it’s fair to say it’s a rather large complex sooo

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Jellybean

05-03-19, 18:07

I was playing some Xbox with a bro the other day and we were playing Fortnite...

OMG, even on Xbox and everything- I KNEW it- you're actually 14 and your profile picture is your mom!
:laugh:

..............................
It was a lot like following the Marvel Universe for nearly a decade only to have the payoff at the end being nobody uses their super power and everybody turns into a sniveling little piss ant and somehow they all luck into a victory. Now that the universe is saved we wait to find out who marries who & who gets what neat car to ride off into the sunset in. The end.

I feel like THIS battle should have been sort of the "big deal" of this season.
"After this all wars will be easy, all victories hollow", you know? If they end up going to battle against the Lannister forces it should be like "Pff...this is what they've got? Bitch please, we just faced down millions of undead and won, what do you have to offer beyond that?"
I mean, we've been watching Jon Snow run around trying to get everyone's shit together BECAUSE of the Night King- he DIED literally because of decisions he made to fight the WW....
"And then they all luck into a victory". Yeah, exactly.
It was like watching a bunch of randoms fight together, not people that have relationships and backstories with each other, going back quite a long time.
Well all know it's going to be a little "lucky" if they win against the night king, but this didn't feel like fight against all odds- due to the many issues with the episode, it felt like watching them snatch defeat from the jaws of victory if you will, and then winning because the plot says they have to.

That and there were, IMHO, critical lore mis-steps.
I was really gunning for a final Jon Vs the Night King showdown- I mean, that's how the whole show has been going- Jon, Bran, the Wildlings, the Nightwatch, and the Night King- ALL of that revolves around each other, and to not "close that loop" if you will was, I think, why that part felt sort of phoned in. I mean, I'm not mad Arya got the kill, she's one of my favorite characters, BUT...in the scheme of the story so far, it doesn't add up, and is frankly feeling very shoehorned in.
I was hoping they'd save her "big moment" for a little later, since there's still a couple people on "the list", but now it seems like they've essentially set the show up for "deus ex Arya" since we all know she's got to play some key roles in the show as it continues on...

We all are aware the Hound doesn't like fire, BUT... I just wasn't feeling it here. It felt more like character regression for him at this point.

And then they *almost* had a "moment" with Tyrion and Sansa in the crypt and then... it's like "oh wait, we can just hide and it will all go away. Um...what?

Anyway, I could go on griping, but what's done is done.
Nothing I can do to change it.
Frankly, also still trying to reserve a little judgement til the end of the show and we see how everything turns out.

jpmuscle

05-03-19, 18:14

Idk I thought it was fairly clever that Jon didn’t get the kill. It would have been to predictable. Instead he sat just out of reach castrated by the dead dragon.

Arya wielding the death blow seemed a bit contrived considering how it went down but idk. I mean didn’t she go all no one and many faces on the night king?

20/20 hindsight and all that

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SteyrAUG

05-03-19, 19:31

I agree, it seemed near, but not ‘in’.

On Jer’s Theory, look at Jon Snow- his best decision was to bang his aunt. Every campaign, every battle, every tactic was a failure.

It might tie into the bigger picture that there are no heroes and no bad guys- the characters have rotated around depending on circumstances and options- with some character traits.

I think at this point we are giving the writers too much credit. The show just isn't what it used to be. The last time I was actually impressed was when Sansa outwitted little finger.

I don't think they care about Jon Snow other than "We'll need some dragons, lots of fire and millions of dead walkers.....IT....WILL.....BE.....EPIC!!!!!"

ramairthree

05-04-19, 02:02

I think at this point we are giving the writers too much credit. The show just isn't what it used to be. The last time I was actually impressed was when Sansa outwitted little finger.

I don't think they care about Jon Snow other than "We'll need some dragons, lots of fire and millions of dead walkers.....IT....WILL.....BE.....EPIC!!!!!"

Yeah, serious fans of the show have relayed to me that my sense of things getting a little off occurred when they ran out of Worcester material and starting winging it. People that have read the books and seen each episode more than once can give some pretty concrete examples.

I previously stated I had seen every episode on dvd until getting HBO on prime and seeing in near real time since a year or two ago.
My son has reminded me I never saw the first half of season five.

Biggest mistake to me so far is Jon not killing the dragon,
With no mythic feat,
Not matter what people he kills,
It all kind of falls apart as an epic.

SteyrAUG

05-04-19, 02:30

Yeah, serious fans of the show have relayed to me that my sense of things getting a little off occurred when they ran out of Worcester material and starting winging it. People that have read the books and seen each episode more than once can give some pretty concrete examples.

I previously stated I had seen every episode on dvd until getting HBO on prime and seeing in near real time since a year or two ago.
My son has reminded me I never saw the first half of season five.

Biggest mistake to me so far is Jon not killing the dragon,
With no mythic feat,
Not matter what people he kills,
It all kind of falls apart as an epic.

Could be that despite his claim, Tyrion actually sits on the Iron Throne. Jon did technically die once so maybe they will come up with some mumbo jumbo that states he isn't "the one." Maybe he and Dani just decide to play house and let Tyrion run everything. Maybe after all they go through to kill Cersei and her minions they get disenchanted of power and say F it.

But just because they think they are clever, I predict a dwarf on the Iron throne.

Circle_10

05-04-19, 06:52

With the way that the Night King and the army of the dead were played up, literally from the opening of the first episode as the overarching threat that made the rivalries of Westeros's squabbling, scheming lords petty and irrelevant by comparison, I feel like an entire season, or at least multiple episodes, should have been devoted to defeating him.
I can imagine a scenario where the beleaguered northern forces find themselves trapped in a nightmarish protracted trench warfare-esque situation or something like the Do Long Bridge sequence in Apocalypse Now. The combined northern/Dany forces simply trying to hold the lines in and around Winterfell, weathering repeated assaults by the undead, with casualties mounting,( both in battle and from suicides), morale failing, troops cracking under pressure, infighting, fratricide, psychological horror. And everyone knows they can't win this battle, it's all just a delaying action to give our heroes time to find some way to gain an advantage over the Night King. Sam can comb the books searching for arcane knowledge tucked away in the archives, Bran can do his greenseeing and time travel. And the situation grows more desperate over the course of the season.
Eventually someone comes up with something, but even with their new Ace In The Hole the Night King still proves a worthy adversary and shows us all why he's such a terrifying mofo, and why he's the Final Boss. They get him eventually but you really understand that it was a hard won victory, and if it's still Arya who gets to deliver the actual killing blow than fine, but at least the Night King's end was consistent with the level of hype and menace ascribed to the character earlier in the series canon.

Instead, it's more like....oh, that whole ice zombie army thing? That's just a loose end that needs to get tied up on the way to taking out the real final boss, Cersei.

Come on.....

Hmac

05-04-19, 07:09

Jellybean

05-04-19, 11:07

Shad dissects the episode;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY2jAnV5Fa4

jpmuscle

05-04-19, 11:10

Maybe the Night King hasn’t been defeated......

Just saying

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Jellybean

05-04-19, 11:26

Somebody woke mauler up too... :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7zy1PTMp0

Jellybean

05-04-19, 11:28

But yeah, between those two videos (and there are more popping up if you want to comb youtube), it's pretty much a re-cap of what everyone's already said here. So at least now you can rest assured we're not just a bunch of crazy right-wingers hating on a perfectly good show.. :laugh:

I have a sneaking suspicion we're also seeing the side effects of a shortened season as well...

But personally, I think this episode sums up perfectly the way Hollywood has been approaching TV and movies for the last few years, and why everyone has realized most everything new sucks so bad-
They've consistently gone for flashy graphics and "production value", over depth and story remaining true to the lore and character arcs that have been set up. I think they really think people are to dumb to notice their lazy and pathetic writing, and will just stuff popcorn in our faces and cheer if it looks cool enough.
I think this is what they DO on purpose- take movies and franchises that were well built, and have large, loving followings, and latch onto them with their greedy hand-rubbing fingers, with the sole purpose of using the long-suffering willingness of a devoted fan base to put up with tripe for a movie or two, or a few seasons, so they can make gobs of quick money off the back of the people who did the work before them, before inevitably ruining the franchise, and losing the fanbase in spectacular fashion as they take to the internet in droves to REEEEEEEEEEEEE their displeasure... but they don't care they've ruined the whole thing, because they made their quid and they can move on to the next pre-existing cash cow to blood-suck off of. They can't create anything new or original- creativity is dead. The only thing left is a "march through the institutions" of movie history as everything is repurposed into fast cash and destroyed.

They pretty much TLJ'd Game of Thrones with this episode.
Yeah, I said it.

Maybe the rest of the season will save it, who knows...

jpmuscle

05-04-19, 11:29

I think you guys are delving way to far into this lol

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Circle_10

05-04-19, 11:44

Shad dissects the episode;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY2jAnV5Fa4

I stumbled upon this video about a half hour ago on my own and literally just finished watching it before coming back to this thread.

I think you guys are delving way to far into this lol

Heh, it's Saturday, and first time the sun has been out in days, and I'm stuck here at my job that I absolutely hate. I don't think I'm delving into this far enough.

Maybe the Night King hasn’t been defeated......

Just saying

Part of me does kind of wonder if there's going to be some kind of time-bendy shit going on in the end and it's going to turn out that Bran exists in a way that transcends time or something and actually is the night king while simultaneously being Bran Stark. Or maybe same deal, but Jon is the Night King instead.

daddyusmaximus

05-04-19, 11:57

That video has a lot of good points. I was yelling at the TV at the stupidity. Soon as the Dothraki Cav charged, I knew it was over.

I think the writers wanted that stupidity, so Arya would seem even more the hero...

Grand58742

05-04-19, 12:16

I'm rewatching the entire series at the moment. There are things you miss the first time around that are seemingly really important at this point.

For example, why did the White Walkers not kill Sam in the Season 2 finale? What made him so important to spare?

jpmuscle

05-04-19, 12:34

Something I want to posit

Jon stated in the war room planning scene that they couldn’t defeat the dead in a straight up fight and their only hope was to get the NK to expose himself and maybe they’d get lucky.

With that I think it lends some credence to their tactics and Op plan. Sitting around and playing defense wasn’t an option since they’d just slowly be bled out.

So I think their intent was to force an action early on in the hopes the NK would poke his head out. I don’t think the initial Dothraki charge was going to decimated so easily.

Of course in seeing this Dani couldn’t stick to the plan and it was all down hill from there.

So idk in that context it works better.

It’s like Quill fvcking everything up for the universe in Infinity wars when their trying to get the stones away from Thanos on Titan and he loses his shit.

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Grand58742

05-05-19, 21:37

Anyone else on the fence about this season yet?

Lot of talking. Lot of conspiracy. Lot of...nothing major yet.

These last two episodes best be good AF in order to justify the two year wait on finishing this series.

jpmuscle

05-05-19, 21:42

That episode was meh

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Wake27

05-05-19, 21:50

Grand58742

05-05-19, 23:38

Everything they're doing is building up to the final showdown, I don't know what else could be expected. A battle that stretches more than one episode would get boring for most and there's no point having an episode after one of the big players have already lost so they're building the suspense until the end. This is just the foreplay that we all have a love/hate relationship with.

The first two episodes were pretty "meh" as well. We already knew the battle was building. We knew the fight was inevitable. I don't need to watch an entire episode of people sitting around drinking wine, remembering the good ol' days and singing songs.

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-06-19, 00:41

BORING

Circle_10

05-06-19, 06:36

Yeah that was a fairly weak episode.
You just know that Drogon is probably a goner too of course. Dragons being a superweapon in the GOT universe, their re-extinction will be to be played as vital character development for Danerys because "only *without* the destructive power of her dragons to fall back on as a crutch can she *truly* learn to be a fair and just ruler"
That's assuming she doesn't die of course.

And man, Jon is like the worst dog owner ever.
He's just like "BTW, take Ghost up north and let him go." And rides off without even a farewell pat.
Of course I'm sure the real reason it happened the way it did is because depicting a convincing interaction between Jon and a supersized green-screened wolf would have been complicated and expensive.

One of my Cersei death scenario predictions is actually that she manages to escape King's Landing and flees into the forest but Arya wargs into Nymeria and hunts her down and kills her.
Although I still think Jaime might kill her also.
And I still think Jaime is going to die too, so that leaves some hope for Brienne/Tormund shippers.

I'm not pleased with the show, but I am still curious how it will all wrap up in the end.

Grand58742

05-06-19, 06:50

https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/game-of-thrones-starbucks-reactions/

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-06-19, 08:02

I think you guys are delving way to far into this lol

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But this is how TV shiows are made now. Every detail, all the easter eggs, everything is a foreshadowing and a clue- three season's ago, something in the background. They've made it so that everything matters and you have to hyper analyze and pay attention. I really don't like it. It's like faux intellectualism.

sundance435

05-06-19, 08:09

The first two episodes were pretty "meh" as well. We already knew the battle was building. We knew the fight was inevitable. I don't need to watch an entire episode of people sitting around drinking wine, remembering the good ol' days and singing songs.

I thought the second episode was actually pretty good. Last night's, not so much. Jamie riding off was a gut punch - the woman that plays Brienne does a tremendous job with that role. The doubts about Dany are finally coming to a head and Varys does a good job of explaining why a marriage between Jon and Dany won't work. Remember, Varys does not survive, if Melisandre's prophecy was correct and she already carried out her part of it.

I'm curious to see how they come up with a workaround for all of the dragon-killing ballistas that now adorn everything. They don't really have the forces for a siege - I'm guessing both armies are roughly 25-30,000 at this point (King's Landing is 1,000,000+ people). Who's left to come in and save the day? They casually mention that they have the Iron Islands back and Dorn has joined, but there are no Knights of the Vale or anyone else left to swoop in and save them, unless maybe the Stark that was in the Frey dungeon still has a part to play. Not a lot of clues for next week's episode, other than the terror on Euron's face. Emilia Clarke said in an interview that Episode 5 is pretty crazy, or something like that.

It does look like we'll get Clegane Bowl after all. I always thought Arya was going to kill Cersei, but after killing the Night King, too, it kind of seems like a stretch now.

WillBrink

05-06-19, 09:25

That episode was meh

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I thought it was OK, but it's clear they're phoning it in at this point in a rush to get the show over with vs really trying to finish strong, like the final episode of The Shield, which still haunts me to this day!

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-06-19, 11:43

I think that they up-armour the dragon, physics be damned.

The end is going to be a mess of human weakness and evil, from some of our favorite characters.

jpmuscle

05-06-19, 12:18

I’m inclined to think the people of Kings landing will take a side

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crosseyedshooter

05-06-19, 12:34

Dany will want to torch King’s Landing, or any variation of Dany turning “mad” and wanting some kind of massacre. Jon will be forced to “stop” her.

jpmuscle

05-06-19, 12:40

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/64f4dada6fb61370bb68955957e5a07f.jpg

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ramairthree

05-07-19, 02:12

Good God, the last two episodes are not optimizing character development, fan service, arc conclusions, etc.

This is the kind of half assed work people do when they just got a pay cut, lousy new computer system at work, hate their boss, are stuck doing both their job and somebody else’s with now reward or recognition, have been the fast horse getting whipped too long, or have just tuckered/burned out.

Sam could have been granted lord of his real and released from his night watch oath and Sansa given the north Free and clear in ten seconds on top of Gendry bastard getting his. John could have raised dragon girl on his shoulder when getting his dragon praise. Wolf could have been pictured licking dragon wounds, and woke up the next morning the size of a horse Snow could have ridden to kings landing.

I could buy a dragon going down in a total air defense expending surprise vs like a chump.

Is Jaime going to hook up with or kill his sister?

Like the last episode, I am not saying it was horrible. I am not saying I did not appreciate some of the moments. But it reeks of Friday afternoon before a long weekend plant work, in the day drinking and pre urine drug screen era.

Edit
I temper being ten and reading Starship Troopers the first time. When he was getting questions about dogs. And not being found to be much of the dong handler type. In that book I would have gone handler instead of mobile infantry. In real life, if the choices were SF baby or Ranger Bn Infantry, vs handler for either, which was not a choice then, I would have taken handler. The hey giant milk ginger dude, watch my dog was very off to me.

Alex V

05-07-19, 08:20

I feel like Jaime may very well be riding to King's Landing to kill Cersi. Though the producers seem to have completely shit on the Azor Ahai prophesy, there may still honor the future telling of Maggy The Frog.

When Cersei asked her is she would be queen, she said "Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

When Cersei asked if she will have children, she was told "Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." valingar being a younger brother. Could be Tyrion, but I think it will be Jaime.

I feel bad for Gendry, Melisandre uses him but only once, Arya uses him but only once, just can't get any constant action.

Once I saw Jon get on the horse instead of Rhaegal, it was obvious that Rhaegal wasn't long for this world. :( I knew he would die, but I was hoping it would be during the battle at King's Landing, not in travel to the fight. Kind of a waste.

Dani is slowly being driven mad, and I agree that Jon will have to kill her.

I like Arya and Sandor hooking up again. As they said, they both have unfinished business in King's Landing. This sets up CleganeBowl nicely. I wonder if Arya will get to Cersei before Jaime, and if she does, will she wear her face and bang Jaime or kill him? He isn't on her list but who knows.

Adrenaline_6

05-07-19, 11:15

Very disappointed so far. Really? You have 2 dragons! Ever heard of reconnaissance? An elementary student could be more strategic. At 2000' you could see everything and nothing touches you. You have 2 Queens in a chess game and you move them around like morons.

daddyusmaximus

05-07-19, 12:29

jpmuscle

05-07-19, 12:42

Well she did have brain surgery in real life so I wonder if any of that affected filming and what not

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LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-07-19, 13:18

I found myself bored to death during episode 4 and furious that we are wasting SO MUCH screen time on nothing. The loss of a dragon or of any character at this point is pure shock value and really adds nothing to the story because there isn't time enough left to feel the impact of their loss. I am so disappointed in how this has been written, it feels like an insult to those of us who have spent the last decade enjoying this masterpiece.

jpmuscle

05-07-19, 13:43

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190507/d8ee7be6bdd55ac6edb083202faf81e5.jpg

In case anyone missed it

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ramairthree

05-07-19, 13:55

This certainly adds credence to my statement that these past few episodes have the stench of a mid 70s to mid 80s GM vehicle built on Friday afternoon after the lunch/beer/pot break.

Grand58742

05-07-19, 15:13

Spoiler from Episode 5.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5_LYHvWwAAnI5o.jpg:large

Jellybean

05-07-19, 15:38

When Cersei asked if she will have children, she was told "Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." valingar being a younger brother. Could be Tyrion, but I think it will be Jaime.

Or Euron...isn't he *a* younger brother?
Possible outcome- Jaime shows back up, Euron, being the cocky SOB he is, can't help but gloat over his and Cersei's child. Jaime's like "Lol, wtf, nice try boi, but that kid's mine" and Euron's gonna lose his shit.
So...I could totally be wrong after going with Jaime being the one to kill Cersei all this time...

I feel bad for Gendry, Melisandre uses him but only once, Arya uses him but only once, just can't get any constant action.

Once I saw Jon get on the horse instead of Rhaegal, it was obvious that Rhaegal wasn't long for this world. :( I knew he would die, but I was hoping it would be during the battle at King's Landing, not in travel to the fight. Kind of a waste.

Dani is slowly being driven mad, and I agree that Jon will have to kill her.

I like Arya and Sandor hooking up again. As they said, they both have unfinished business in King's Landing. This sets up CleganeBowl nicely. I wonder if Arya will get to Cersei before Jaime, and if she does, will she wear her face and bang Jaime or kill him? He isn't on her list but who knows.

Yeah, but Gendry also IS sort of the "odd man out" in this story...He doesn't really have anywhere he belongs, being a bastard and all, and he doesn't want it either. My bet is, he'll probably go home, build a huge commerce empire based on steel work, marry either a commoner girl, or perhaps into a minor house, and end up becoming one of the most powerful houses in Westeros- kind of like a new High Garden.

Green dragon gets shot- *record scratch*- "it was at this moment that the CG budget for multiple dragons ran out"... :laugh:

The sad thing is, a long time ago, I really was gunning for Dany... A combination of her own hubris and Jon's idiocy is going to sink her.
You see, if Jon had done the "DUH" thing on Dragonstone, and pushed for an alliance, instead of bending over like a twig, it coming to light that he's a Targaryen wouldn't have mattered as much- He'd still have been King in the North, and they could simply have a joint rule of the north and south.
And Dany has been so focused on "my turn" and "taking back my birthright" and "all must bend the knee" that she can't fathom any other outcome other than her being the SOLE ruler of Westeros. She has high ideals of "breaking the wheel" but now that the end is in sight, she can't see anything BUT business as usual. She's always had her petulant moments here and there, but toasting the Tarleys last season was the first real red flag that she can't politic.
And with what's happened between the loss of her dragons, Jorah, Dothraki, Unsullied, and Missandei... I think she might be about to have that "one bad day"...

As far as Jon killing her... I don't think he could do it... I just don't see it.

Arya kills the Mountain. Calling it now. :laugh:

Very disappointed so far. Really? You have 2 dragons! Ever heard of reconnaissance? An elementary student could be more strategic. At 2000' you could see everything and nothing touches you. You have 2 Queens in a chess game and you move them around like morons.

My takeaway was, if I noticed correctly, there are no ballistae mounted on the rear of the ships. Passes from the side or rear would have been effective, given the enemy fleet was somewhat in a channel- they'd have a hard time turning to bring their heavy weapon to bear in a place like that.

Am I the only one bummed Tormund got friendzoned? :laugh:

Adrenaline_6

05-07-19, 16:06

My takeaway was, if I noticed correctly, there are no ballistae mounted on the rear of the ships. Passes from the side or rear would have been effective, given the enemy fleet was somewhat in a channel- they'd have a hard time turning to bring their heavy weapon to bear in a place like that.

Even if the rear ships did, you can't shoot through your own masts, much less aim low enough from the front of the ship to hit anything coming in low at sea level from behind. At night on a new moon, they wouldn't know what's coming. Crap...they could just drop a bunch of flammable objects (think cluster munitions) and have the dragon light it on the way down burning every ship. Seriously. What the hell.

Joelski

05-07-19, 16:11

The only thing Dani has done on her own is eat a horse heart. BFD. Bitch gone cray cray over her "Me Me Me" horseshit (Pun).

All I care about at this point is Clegane bowl and I have a bad feeling that Arya is going to stab the mountainous zombie in the back for the kill... as he runs the hound through. That fulfills the prophecy the hound made of her leaving him to die, again.

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-07-19, 17:35

We find out that Tyrion or Jon are fireproof after Danny tries to zap them. Opps.

jpmuscle

05-07-19, 19:22

We find out that Tyrion or Jon are fireproof after Danny tries to zap them. Opps.

Technically he should be correct? Probably would have made facing down the dead dragon easier.

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MountainRaven

05-07-19, 23:19

Even if the rear ships did, you can't shoot through your own masts, much less aim low enough from the front of the ship to hit anything coming in low at sea level from behind. At night on a new moon, they wouldn't know what's coming. Crap...they could just drop a bunch of flammable objects (think cluster munitions) and have the dragon light it on the way down burning every ship. Seriously. What the hell.

There was a time when airplanes that were vulnerable to machine gun and rifle fire flew low and slow, because that was all they could do, and guys still threw an awful lot of ammunition at them for every hit they could score. And often those hits were marginal. And that's with tracers and well-balanced machine guns with advanced sights that can be rapidly turned and aimed.

Never mind getting three or more good hits with big, heavy guns that take a crew to load once, to aim, and to fire once.

And then not being able to hit a single target while it's flying directly at them....

Yeah.

SteyrAUG

05-08-19, 00:31

Adrenaline_6

05-08-19, 07:34

So you have the only thing that actually FLIES in the known world.

Has anyone heard of the word "reconnoiter"? Perhaps a high flyover pass with a single dragon vs. turning a corner with everything you brought would have changed the game?

She could have completely destroyed Euron's fleet with a pass from the rear. All she had to do was know what she was getting into. Losing the first dragon to the NK was bad enough, this was just irresponsible.

I understand by the end of the show, ALL the dragons need to be dead for a happy conclusion. But the way they are doing it is annoying.

Agreed. If they wanted to kill another dragon off, it dying in the battle with the ice dragon would have made more sense. This was writers diarrhea.

Alex V

05-08-19, 08:03

Or Euron...isn't he *a* younger brother?
Possible outcome- Jaime shows back up, Euron, being the cocky SOB he is, can't help but gloat over his and Cersei's child. Jaime's like "Lol, wtf, nice try boi, but that kid's mine" and Euron's gonna lose his shit.
So...I could totally be wrong after going with Jaime being the one to kill Cersei all this time...

Technically, High Valyrian is gender neutral lol. Not all words are but we really don't have a High Valyrian dictionary or grammar manual to know which are and which are not. For instance, the word for "dragon" is the same word used for "prince" and is gender-neutral since dragons themselves are gender neutral. This is why "The Prince That Was Promised" could be "The Princess That Was Promised". So "valonqar" could be younger sister... Arya?

Jaime said that he and Cersei would die together. They came into the world together, and will leave it together. That is why he left Winterfell. Whether he kills her and then dies, or they are killed at the same time, they have to die together.

We find out that Tyrion or Jon are fireproof after Danny tries to zap them. Opps.

Technically he should be correct? Probably would have made facing down the dead dragon easier.
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We do not know about Tyrion, yet, but we know about Jon/Aegon isn't fireproof. He got his hand burned when a wight woke up in Castle Black.

daddyusmaximus

05-08-19, 11:49

So you have the only thing that actually FLIES in the known world.

Has anyone heard of the word "reconnoiter"? Perhaps a high flyover pass with a single dragon vs. turning a corner with everything you brought would have changed the game?

She could have completely destroyed Euron's fleet with a pass from the rear. All she had to do was know what she was getting into. Losing the first dragon to the NK was bad enough, this was just irresponsible.

I understand by the end of the show, ALL the dragons need to be dead for a happy conclusion. But the way they are doing it is annoying.

Inexperience, and arrogance. Just like in the first days of aviation.

WillBrink

05-08-19, 13:17

So you have the only thing that actually FLIES in the known world.

Has anyone heard of the word "reconnoiter"? Perhaps a high flyover pass with a single dragon vs. turning a corner with everything you brought would have changed the game?

She could have completely destroyed Euron's fleet with a pass from the rear. All she had to do was know what she was getting into. Losing the first dragon to the NK was bad enough, this was just irresponsible.

I understand by the end of the show, ALL the dragons need to be dead for a happy conclusion. But the way they are doing it is annoying.

First thing I thought of too, but she doubles down and flies straight into the next volly before realizing it's a poor idea. Simply loop around the island the fleet has hidden behind, come up their ass, flame on, game over. I think even the dragon would have figured that out on it's own if cute queen on its back.

Jellybean

05-08-19, 13:26

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59968814_2253967631364933_7004336733374382080_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQnU2_fHaZeRZnsmG1pww7vpJwmEZAimPnqVF4kYs65_6Tswvp7Ccipk2yrfYNZV-Sw&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e5c7d4b58dae567974e305050b9ae2c8&oe=5D673940

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-08-19, 14:28

Inexperience, and arrogance. Just like in the first days of aviation.

She's shown a propensity for CAS time and time again. She's used her dragons to scout, lined up gun runs against Jaime's army, and used precision strikes when danger close. She's a helluva pilot until stuff is flying through the air.

jpmuscle

05-08-19, 14:38

daddyusmaximus

05-09-19, 00:44

She's shown a propensity for CAS time and time again. She's used her dragons to scout, lined up gun runs against Jaime's army, and used precision strikes when danger close. She's a helluva pilot until stuff is flying through the air.

She's thinking only of what her dragons are capable of... not what her enemy is capable of.

She never would have got this far without her advisers... and they may not stick with her now.

SteyrAUG

05-09-19, 01:35

She's shown a propensity for CAS time and time again. She's used her dragons to scout, lined up gun runs against Jaime's army, and used precision strikes when danger close. She's a helluva pilot until stuff is flying through the air.

That's all fine and dandy when you know the situation and you are coming to the rescue. But when you are scouting, you don't do it without a care in the world as if nothing back can happen.

From the moment she lost the first Dragon to the NK, she needed to realize these are my most important assets and protect them accordingly. She learned virtually nothing from that experience and she demonstrated she isn't the infallible, nothing bad can happen on my watch, leader she has promoted herself as.

She thinks Jon snows claim to the throne weakens her position, well having a hillbilly goober like Euron simply shoot one of your remaining dragons out of the air and then wreck your fleet because nobody took the most basic "sneak and peek" shows gross incompetence as a leader.

Or to put it another way, If Cersei had three dragons, Cersei would still have three dragons. Dani is down to one. And her calling them her "children" doesn't make it any better, it only shows how reckless she is even with her own "children." She might actually be the "least tactical thinker" on the entire show.

Furbyballer

05-09-19, 07:13

Alex V

05-09-19, 08:09

Have you guys discussed the Mellisandra prediction of Arya and her remaining 3 kills? Blue eyes, Brown Eyes, and Green Eyes? Obviously Blue eyes was the night king, green eyes is probably cersei? and who is brown eyes?

I don't think the prediction is specific. It is only that she will shut many eyes forever. Some will be green, some brown, she only emphasized the blue the second time she said it in Winterfell.

However, if you are keeping score:
Brown Eyes: Polliver, Meryn Trant
Blue Eyes: Waif, Knight's King, Littlefinger
Green Eyes: Walder Frey (Cercei has green eyes as well)

Another theory about this is that those are the faces she wears, hens the eyes staring back.

Adrenaline_6

05-09-19, 08:10

and who is brown eyes?
I know it is childish but I LOL'd.

Circle_10

05-09-19, 09:24

I don't think the prediction is specific. It is only that she will shut many eyes forever. Some will be green, some brown, she only emphasized the blue the second time she said it in Winterfell.

However, if you are keeping score:
Brown Eyes: Polliver, Meryn Trant
Blue Eyes: Waif, Knight's King, Littlefinger
Green Eyes: Walder Frey (Cercei has green eyes as well)

Another theory about this is that those are the faces she wears, hens the eyes staring back.

The Arya face-wearing thing pisses me off. In the book, and earlier in the show the Faceless Men's ability to take on the appearance of another person are implied to be a sort of a supernatural or magical "glamour". Whereas by the time Arya becomes a practicioner of the craft she's apparently literally *wearing* faces, and revealing her true identity via pulling off these "masks" in hokey Mission Impossible style.

Alex V

05-09-19, 10:02

The Arya face-wearing thing pisses me off. In the book, and earlier in the show the Faceless Men's ability to take on the appearance of another person are implied to be a sort of a supernatural or magical "glamour". Whereas by the time Arya becomes a practicioner of the craft she's apparently literally *wearing* faces, and revealing her true identity via pulling off these "masks" in hokey Mission Impossible style.

I think everyone who has read the books can agree that the show leaves a lot to be desired in comparison.

ramairthree

05-09-19, 10:13

There is certainly some magic beyond just wearing the face as a mask. A five foot tall girl now appears to be a six foot tall old guy and sounds like them, etc.
I don’t see her using the faces as a contradiction to previous build up or poor writing.

On the other hand, a few years ago, dragon girl took out some huge invading fleet of ships dodging dozens of catapulted fireballs. And also had mega crossbows start showing up trying to take out dragons. And was well versed in the existence and plans of the euron fleet. Then all of a sudden, a fleet and super sized crossbows are a surprise.
This is one example of the contradiction to previous build up and poor writing that seems to be tanking things.

Cool little Mormont taking out a giant zombie was cool, fan service, and quite an end for a minor character.
Like Ser Jorah dying saving his queen.
SnowGareon NOT taking out a giant, the zombie dragon, or the dead king after years of build up is criminal.
They have been building up Arya for greater things forever. It’s not that I have an issue with here killing the dead king.

It’s that with SnowGareon not doing it, not there getting the assist, and not taking out the dragon or giant or not saving dragon queen from a face off with the dragon or dead king-
It does not matter what person he kills, if he becomes king, if he sacrifices his life for someone, or whatever-
There is no heroic cycle slaying of the beast.

Jellybean

05-09-19, 10:56

I think everyone who has read the books can agree that the show leaves a lot to be desired in comparison.

Past a certain point... early seasons were actually quite on-point and almost 1:1 with the book. Then a little later they omitted some characters, swapped some events between characters, and plain left some stuff out, BUT it was still close enough, and a good condensed "interpretation" of it all. Of course by the end of the existing book-lore, the show had gone WAY off topic, and then of course past it, and I thinkthat's when everyone agrees it started to get less good...
The last season wasn't awful, it just felt rushed in some places. This season though... I don't know what they're doing. It seems they're hell-bent on throwing out everything that happened previously by simply making everyone as stupid as possible...

The Arya face-wearing thing pisses me off. In the book, and earlier in the show the Faceless Men's ability to take on the appearance of another person are implied to be a sort of a supernatural or magical "glamour". Whereas by the time Arya becomes a practicioner of the craft she's apparently literally *wearing* faces, and revealing her true identity via pulling off these "masks" in hokey Mission Impossible style.

Yeah, I don't believe we saw Jaquin Hagar[sp?] ever "take off" a face either.
That being said... I also question whether she actually completed her Faceless Man training...remember, she decided to leave and go back home after the weird blonde girl there tried to kill her. So maybe what she's doing is simply the low-level version of what the faceless men can do...
Either way, it's all about how they play it. I mean, the part when she takes out Walder Frey was well done... I kind of wish they would have stuck to making her "sneaky" with her kills like that, instead of this strange sort of "best melee fighter ever" thing they seem to be pushing her character towards. Like, dudes... she's trained as an ASSASSIN, not a knight...there should be more nuance to what she does.

For a second there I thought she was going to cosplay Bran, and shank the Night King like that when he came over to the chair, but... then fire lady and flying through the air happened, so... whatev...

Circle_10

05-09-19, 11:27

So if the undead all disintegrated when the Night King was killed in Episode 3, why than was there anything left of Lyanna Mormont to cremate in the opening of Episode 4?
Because in the previous episode Lyanna is shown being resurrected by the Night King as a wight well before he was killed.

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-09-19, 13:20

sundance435

05-10-19, 09:27

She's thinking only of what her dragons are capable of... not what her enemy is capable of.

She never would have got this far without her advisers... and they may not stick with her now.

I think we're supposed to believe, basically over 2 episodes, that she's lost all touch with reality. She lost the only advisor she unquestionably listened to (Jorah) and we've been led to believe that she harbors doubts about Tyrion (check the shade she's giving as he's yucking it up with Jaime in Episode 4). I think the writers intend for us to believe she thinks she's on her own, which makes her rash and unpredictable.

On the other hand, a few years ago, dragon girl took out some huge invading fleet of ships dodging dozens of catapulted fireballs. And also had mega crossbows start showing up trying to take out dragons. And was well versed in the existence and plans of the euron fleet. Then all of a sudden, a fleet and super sized crossbows are a surprise.
This is one example of the contradiction to previous build up and poor writing that seems to be tanking things.

SnowGareon NOT taking out a giant, the zombie dragon, or the dead king after years of build up is criminal.
They have been building up Arya for greater things forever. It’s not that I have an issue with here killing the dead king.

It’s that with SnowGareon not doing it, not there getting the assist, and not taking out the dragon or giant or not saving dragon queen from a face off with the dragon or dead king-
It does not matter what person he kills, if he becomes king, if he sacrifices his life for someone, or whatever-
There is no heroic cycle slaying of the beast.

I'm well beyond caring what happens to Jon or Dany. They've basically murdered the appeal of the characters this season with almost nothing to show for it. Jon is now the dumbest, least gregarious character. We're supposed to believe Dany has lost all sense of reality over like 2 episodes in order to put the narrative where it's probably heading? Don't buy it. Arguably you could see her roasting the Tarley's as the first real evidence, but I don't think that was actually a terrible decision, despite what Tyrion says (you'd have to roast both of them - no way you off the dad and expect anything but treachery from the son).

Blame it on a condensed season, but Episode 4 was a complete and total waste - just criminally negligent lazy/sloppy writing. If either of them ends up on the throne in the end, I will be really pissed.

So if the undead all disintegrated when the Night King was killed in Episode 3, why than was there anything left of Lyanna Mormont to cremate in the opening of Episode 4?
Because in the previous episode Lyanna is shown being resurrected by the Night King as a wight well before he was killed.

Just spit balling, since its unlikely they'll reveal why in the show, but it probably has to do with how they were turned and whether they were "resurrected". They do show mountains of corpses at the end of Episode 3, but not the disposal of them in 4. Some that were hit with dragon glass disintegrated and some didn't, prior to the Night King biting it. I think it's really more of a continuity problem than anything.

Circle_10

05-10-19, 09:43

I think it's really more of a continuity problem than anything.

This is really what I assumed even when I posed the question. It would just be nice if there were some explanation other than just sloppy writing.

But I guess you could claim it depends on the condition of the body?
Like a resurrected body that is in a very deteriorated state might instantly fall apart once it's no longer being kept alive via dark magic, while a relatively "fresh" wight may remain structurally intact. I guess that's a possible explanation.
I dunno.
Lyanna Mormont was a fun character at first, but got unrealistic pretty quickly. Culminating in her wearing armor and issuing orders as a battlefield commander who apparently leads from the front.
No matter how precocious and fiery-tempered she might be, she's still an 11 year old girl and is still at a physical disadvantage fighting goddamn ice zombies. A *real life* Lyanna Mormont would probably be smart enough to realize that too...
She'd know she'd be a liability and a distraction to her men who would feel compelled to protect their 11 year old liege.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-10-19, 10:37

This is really what I assumed even when I posed the question. It would just be nice if there were some explanation other than just sloppy writing.

But I guess you could claim it depends on the condition of the body?
Like a resurrected body that is in a very deteriorated state might instantly fall apart once it's no longer being kept alive via dark magic, while a relatively "fresh" wight may remain structurally intact. I guess that's a possible explanation.
I dunno.
Lyanna Mormont was a fun character at first, but got unrealistic pretty quickly. Culminating in her wearing armor and issuing orders as a battlefield commander who apparently leads from the front.
No matter how precocious and fiery-tempered she might be, she's still an 11 year old girl and is still at a physical disadvantage fighting goddamn ice zombies. A *real life* Lyanna Mormont would probably be smart enough to realize that too...
She'd know she'd be a liability and a distraction to her men who would feel compelled to protect their 11 year old liege.

This is what I told my wife while watching that episode. If Lyanna wants to fight on a battlefield against a ferocious enemy who overpowers the realms most powerful warriors, then Lyanna should do as fast as one would expect an 11 year old girl to do so. No matter the fiery attitude, she should have been in the crypts chopping up Stark zombies or something.

ramairthree

05-10-19, 10:48

I got the vibe the little girl was from a dying, tiny house with slaving exiles and murdered by mutiny infamy the last pages in their book of going out with a whimper.

A woman with the last of her name, let alone a little girl, can’t ressurect a family/name that has died out.

I believe with no more actual Mormonts that lost to history rep has changed to a house that died defeating the army of the dead with their last lord slaying a giant. Unrealistic but redemptive. They will be remembered for their honor and sacrifice.

I don’t exactly know the deal with the zombies. It seems they can be blown up, burned, killed with dragon glass, killed with valerian steel. Sometimes they drop with an arrow to the head. Sometimes they don’t. Some take some regular damage and stop. Some take way more regular damage before they stop. Some get ant stomped by a giant, etc.

jpmuscle

05-10-19, 11:41

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/77d1900b636f0ec4a145feead653acfe.jpg

I just want this fixed

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Circle_10

05-10-19, 12:24

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/77d1900b636f0ec4a145feead653acfe.jpg

I just want this fixed

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Considering how important the direwolves are in the books, the way they've generally been treated in the series has been atrocious.
I get it, wolves are hard to work with, and making them appear convincingly gigantic onscreen while still showing them interacting with the environment and characters is harder still. But man, it seems like there had to have been another way.
Even way back when Greywind was killed at the Red Wedding I thought this. In the books, IIRC Greywind get shot full of arrows but still kills four wolfhounds and rips the arm off one of the Freys before dying.

I'd like to think Nymeria will come into play again, but at this point I'd be pretty surprised.

jpmuscle

05-12-19, 20:18

Yup. Dany is losing it.

Also attacking with the dragon during daylight is lame

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docsherm

05-12-19, 22:00

Yup. Dany is losing it.

Also attacking with the dragon during daylight is lame

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The question is who will take her out?

Circle_10

05-12-19, 22:02

Yup. Dany is losing it.

Also attacking with the dragon during daylight is lame

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King's Landing is officially liberated.

joedirt199

05-12-19, 22:07

The internet is going to crash with all the hate over this last one.

Grand58742

05-12-19, 22:07

The question is who will take her out?

Arya.

"Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes. Eyes you'll close forever."

docsherm

05-12-19, 22:10

Arya.

"Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes. Eyes you'll close forever."

Way too obvious...

I am thinking Tyrion or something crazy.......

Circle_10

05-12-19, 22:12

The internet is going to crash with all the hate over this last one.

I actually kind of got a kick out of her cray-cray city-incinerating freakout, but I hate the rushed, illogical, sloppily written path this season has taken to get to this point.

docsherm

05-12-19, 22:25

Grayworm and Dani are gone. They are going to die because they went full retard.

How does this sound for an end:

Arya tries to kill Dani and she gets killed. John get pissed and kills Grayworm and Dani.....

Vegas

05-12-19, 23:17

How does this sound for an end:

Arya tries to kill Dani and she gets killed. John get pissed and kills Grayworm and Dani.....

I think that is likely it.

MountainRaven

05-12-19, 23:34

Still watching, but I noticed that Dany's army hasn't even erected siege engines, which could be used to destroy the anti-dragon defenses and keep the defenders awake at all hours, thereby weakening their morale and diminishing their ability to resist.

ramairthree

05-12-19, 23:56

Good God what a shit show.

A big scene with Jaime and uncle Greyjoy. A half assed character with all the thought, dimension, and development as the bad guy from Commando.

A complex, redeeming, character arc with depth thrown away so Jaime can go running back to evil sister. That would be like And they die from random rubble. Several years of coming face off and several years of development tossed by the wayside.

The Hound and Mountain showdown? I already saw that scene 30 years ago in Highlander. Is that really the best they could come up with? Total letdown.

Crazy queen going full retard? Years of a penchant for cruel justice and violence yes, but built on a bedrock of making an effort only laying it down on the deserving. The ON switch to crushing the innocents en mass just too much for me. A few hours ago she was risking everything just to save people.

Grey Worm slightering guys that just lay down their arms and surrendered? Where did that come from?

SnowGareon’s men going from honorable fighters to slaughtering rapists in an instant?

The mongol horde I guess was in character, but weren’t all of them just wiped out?

This kind of writing is up therw with giants milk forgetting he rode a dragon, etc.
Edit-Jaime killing the mad king to save all the innocents in the city, now saying he never cared about them,etc.
I could keep listing where the writing has lost continuity.

Episodic television used to be kind of isolated episodes, show out of production order, lots of continuity and retcon issues.
This series was basically the epitome of complex arcs, plots, continuity, etc.
All down the crapper.

Who even cares how it gets wrapped up at this point.

MountainRaven

05-13-19, 00:06

I think that is likely it.

The only thing is that Dany's eyes were purple in the books.

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-13-19, 07:15

So the key to successfully deploying dragons is.... trying harder?

So the author and the two producers will make all the money in the world- they must have because the show makes bank and they don't spend it- but they will forever be hated at near Disney Star Wars Levels.... I see in 20 years a remake of the books, if fat boy ever does it right and finishes them.

By 10pm next Sunday, the near decade that HBO has held me hostage will end. I'm not sure that I will ever trust them again.

Circle_10

05-13-19, 07:26

....in the books.

Haha, oh my sweet summer child....

WillBrink

05-13-19, 07:49

The internet is going to crash with all the hate over this last one.

Far better than the previous two I thought. My disappointment was how Cersei went out. Hoped she'd get hers in a more dramatic manner. I kept thinking Jaime was going to stick a blade in her, but nope, he really did go back to her.

Man, if Jon had just thrown that cute Dany the Targaryen a bone, literally and figuratively, the entire city would probably have been saved. Pro tip: scorning a woman with a dragon is a bad idea.

It's clear it's just a sloppy rush to conclude the show vs give fans what they deserve after 8 seasons. Obviously there's really nothing they can do with one final episode to redeem the seaon, but it was an awesome show while it lasted.

The only way to justify that episode considering the entire narrative that's she's the "breaker of chains" and all is that she went Targaryen and the blood lust and insanity took over.

The entire goal was to take back the Iron Throne. Now there is no Iron Throne and there's no city left to even rule over.

Alex V

05-13-19, 07:57

BHO pulled down their pants, and took a giant steaming shit on all of us. I scrubbed, and I scrubbed, but damn it, they don't make water hot enough!

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-13-19, 09:45

Whoever wins sits on the throne and is totally dejected because of the cost. My money is on Sansa or Tyrion. The Worm turns on Jon and DANI whacks him, Arya kills Dani. Though, we haven’t heard from High Garden or those sluty people down south.

sundance435

05-13-19, 10:16

I actually kind of got a kick out of her cray-cray city-incinerating freakout, but I hate the rushed, illogical, sloppily written path this season has taken to get to this point.

Lol, I actually kind of got a kick out of it, too. The tension was great. My only problem is that this psychopathy suddenly manifests itself over 2 episodes. Better writing would've given us more of an indication, besides just roasting the Tullys, like if Varys's "flipping a coin" line had been uttered in Season 4 when he hitches up with her (actually, maybe it was, but I don't remember).

So the key to successfully deploying dragons is.... trying harder?

Again, lol. My thought exactly as Drogon was effortlessly roasting every Scorpion. Basically the same move she pulled in Episode 4, only she didn't bank out of it.

Jaime's ending is one of the biggest disappointments for me so far. That is the epitome of slopping writing in this last season. Yeah, I'm sure Martin would be fine with "bad guys stay bad in the end", but even if that was the point, come up with something better than the two of them being buried alive.

Clegane-bowl was never going to live up to the hype, but I thought it was an appropriate end. I actually loved when Sandor is laughing from of his sheer inability to kill The Mountain.

Alex V

05-13-19, 10:16

Jer

05-13-19, 10:18

Who even cares how it gets wrapped up at this point.

This is how I was feeling when the season started. I held out hope that they might find a way to redeem themselves over the last few episodes with some epic writing but, with but one episode left, I'm out on that. I'll watch the final episode because I'm a decade invested but man... what a turd this turned into. It will rank among the biggest TV flops of all time IMO. It had the highest ceiling building up to it and then the lowest flop on the back end. Sad.

sundance435

05-13-19, 10:19

The entire goal was to take back the Iron Throne. Now there is no Iron Throne and there's no city left to even rule over.

Interesting thought, though it won't get the attention it deserves in one episode. She clearly realizes that what she'd always dreamed of and thought was her destiny didn't/doesn't exist. There's no longer an Iron Throne to sit on, because she's making her own world as solely she sees fit. Again, maybe a little more buildup than 2 or 3 episodes to get that point across, but it's what I've managed to salvage from this shitshow season.

Also, wtf is the actual point of the Lord of Light? Do the books explain this any better?

Circle_10

05-13-19, 10:27

Interesting thought, though it won't get the attention it deserves in one episode. She clearly realizes that what she'd always dreamed of and thought was her destiny didn't/doesn't exist. There's no longer an Iron Throne to sit on, because she's making her own world as solely she sees fit. Again, maybe a little more buildup than 2 or 3 episodes to get that point across, but it's what I've managed to salvage from this shitshow season.

Also, wtf is the actual point of the Lord of Light? Do the books explain this any better?

Just to avoid any confusion, that was Will Brink you quoted but had my name attached to the quote. I do agree with his point though, I just figured I'd mention the quoting error.

Jer

05-13-19, 10:31

If Arya kills Dany, then we know they went to total SJW/Women's Lib BS.

My hope is; We know Dany is nuts, Jon kills her and reluctantly takes the throne. Jon has done nothing this season, really. No big fight, no big kills. Jon could also abdicate and Tyrian sits on the throne, I would be okay with this, but I don't see it happening.

Tyrian will die, Dany will burn him. He knows it, he risked his life to save Jaime knowing full well that Dany will kill him if this doesn't work. He tried to save his brother and sister in exchange for giving Dany the city. Dany didn't want the city, she wanted revenge so his actions were useless in the end. Aside from CleganeBowl, the scene between Tyrion and Jaime were the only good aspects of the episode.

Don't really care at this point what happens to Wormzie.

Sansa has to stay in the North because "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Arya doesn't seem to want it, and Bran is no longer a Stark since he found God.

Not sure how I would feel if Arya gives up her assassin lifestyle and marries Gendry. All I know is, they gave her one big kill, if they give her another one it will be total BS.

I still feel as though they gave her one big kill because they're going to kill her off. I thought it would happen last episode but nope. In fact, other than Varys getting smoked & The Clash of the Clegans™ (both of which we knew would happen) and the incestuous couple getting a warm, loving end (layme!) who died that episode? Again, massive let down. The characters remaining are such shells of what we knew them to be that I really don't even care now. They've completely shat on whatever they've built up over 7 seasons regarding character development so I'll just sign off this thought by invoking my previous post: Avenger Analogy.

Alex V

05-13-19, 10:43

One clarification; the iron throne still exists. Dany didn't burn the throne room.

I still feel as though they gave her one big kill because they're going to kill her off. I thought it would happen last episode but nope. In fact, other than Varys getting smoked & The Clash of the Clegans™ (both of which we knew would happen) and the incestuous couple getting a warm, loving end (layme!) who died that episode? Again, massive let down. The characters remaining are such shells of what we knew them to be that I really don't even care now. They've completely shat on whatever they've built up over 7 seasons regarding character development so I'll just sign off this thought by invoking my previous post: Avenger Analogy.

Agreed. They disregarded everything they have already done and what was written.

To clarify, they have been setting up Dany as going full retard for a while now. It was evident that she would go on full Aerys II and "Burn Them All"

Jaime going from crying to Brienne in the hot tub over killing Aerys to save the people from being burnt to saying he doesn't care about them is completely abandoning his entire character arch.

ramairthree

05-13-19, 11:37

Dragon queen going nuts was always hinted at. But those hints were in tug of war with her wanting to do good. Sort of likes snow’s battle with honor/bad outcome vs dishonor/good outcome. It crushed him to always choose honor. But the mad switch should have had something much bigger to flip. Like the witch is wrong and we see a scene of her finding out she is pregnant. She wipes out the ADA and shock troops. Bells ring and the city surrenders. Soldiers dressed as civilians pull a fast one as she flys by and open up with crossbows. She dodges the bolts, and would be home free but swerved to miss a bridge full of innocent civilians to get missed by the bolts.
that act throws her from the dragon. She gets up relatively unharmed. But bleeding from the woman parts and miscarried. People that surrendered tried to kill her. Saving innocents cost her her miracle Dragon/wolf/snow stark baby. She goes full mad queen. I came up with that in 30 seconds. And I bet viewer reaction would have been a whole lot more favorable.

Just like snow could have stayed the ice dragon a moment before it got to dragon queen, and moments before Arya killed the dead king. His whole heroic arc remains intact. Surprise he does not kill the ice king, but he slays a dragon and saves his love/queen who is denfenseless with ser Jorah having fallen getting her to this point alive.

WillBrink

05-13-19, 12:23

One clarification; the iron throne still exists. Dany didn't burn the throne room.

Considering the seemingly total destruction of the Red Keep, if the throne still exists, that's another fail for the season in my view (along with the never ending supply of Dothraki who were wiped out to a man in the bazaar but visually cool charge into the zombies) but it will not surprise me if it still exists considering the season... That building was leveled right to its sub basements from what they showed. It would be far better if she claims it was best to wipe it all out and start fresh, make a new Iron Throne, than have the throne survive.

Waylander

05-13-19, 12:28

The biggest disappointment is Jon Snow has needed to grow a pair of balls for a long time. Instead of being like, oh "You're muh Queen!" constantly.

Circle_10

05-13-19, 12:44

Lol, I actually kind of got a kick out of it, too. The tension was great. My only problem is that this psychopathy suddenly manifests itself over 2 episodes. Better writing would've given us more of an indication, besides just roasting the Tullys, like if Varys's "flipping a coin" line had been uttered in Season 4 when he hitches up with her (actually, maybe it was, but I don't remember)..

It was *absolutely* crappy writing for sure (Honestly the writing started getting bad way back in Season 5 in my opinion, and became especially glaring by Season 7). But after Episode 3 of this season my expectations are now so low I can't really be any more disappointed by this series than I already am. I'm going to see this train wreck through to the bitter end now.

And so in keeping with that sentiment, I found Dany's dragon rampage borderline hilarious from an "OMG, this bitch is going nuts!" perspective, and in how epically she just F-d her own plans to be the liberator of King's Landing.
I mean she was literally going *street by street* roasting civilians, Dany's flipout has to be one of the most deranged sudden disintegrations of a character I have ever seen on TV

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-13-19, 13:03

sundance435

05-13-19, 13:24

We spend 7 years developing Dany's character as a just, true, and wise ruler. There are very few, if any, signs of her mental collapse....UNTIL the last three hours of the show where some people spread rumors and her friend gets killed sho she just murders everyone. Yup, makes total sense. Because, you know, she's never experienced extreme adversity before. Jesus.

Jon is worthless, literally devoid of worth.

Cersei and Jamie die from a building collapse? Seriously? Thats the best you could do? Two of the major players, and we drop bricks on them?!?!

Arya, the world's most deadly assassin, trained in the darkest of arts, with more revenge kills than anyone in the seven kingdoms....realizes the error of her ways and awkwardly calls The Hound by name...then rides off on a white horse.

You idiots had two years to write and film this, and this is how you choose to end the most epic of all epic shows? Shame. Shame. Shame.

You nailed the most glaring faults of the show at this point. I cannot stand Jon Snow. He is the least human, least interesting character on the show now, but that's been the case for a while, especially after he bent the knee. Cersei and Jaime's deaths were utterly stupid and incredible disservices to the characters. And yeah, I almost laughed when the Hound was like, "Do you want to be like me?" and she's like, you're right, I'm out. This is a girl who served Walder Frey his own sons baked into a pie. If you can walk back from that one, then I guess anything's possible. She just chooses, in a moment of omniscient clarity, to not go kill the one person most responsible for her family's misfortune, because of two sentences from Sandor.

I mean, ramairthree is correct, there were "signs" along the way about Dany, but nothing even remotely enough to justify the freak-out in the last episode - maybe if Jorah and Missandei had died a little farther apart, with some poor decisions from Jon and Tyrion peppered in, but not this way. I think they intended for her character to go this route, looking back on Season 7, which would be in keeping with what I understand Martin has done with other characters (contrasting their humanity, or lack thereof, through various acts), but it's just so much of a reach due to the miniscule development they put into it. She loses Jorah and her interpreter and that's what puts her over the edge after all she's been through? There should have been flashing signals before that, not nuanced hints. Tyrion is the smartest character on the show and for him to be fooled to this extent strains believability. Yes, we've seen him be fooled and make mistakes, but of this proportion? Maybe that serves to demonstrate he's the most human of them all, but that's still dumb.

Jer

05-13-19, 13:24

Circle_10

05-13-19, 13:34

. Tyrion is the smartest character on the show and for him to be fooled to this extent strains believability. Yes, we've seen him be fooled and make mistakes, but of this proportion? Maybe that serves to demonstrate he's the most human of them all, but that's still dumb.

Maybe the idea was that the normally jaded Tyrion wanted *so* desperately to finally believe in someone, that he was willing to overlook obvious warning signs? Unfortunately, if this was the idea, it was incompletely/incompetently conveyed by the writers.

MountainRaven

05-13-19, 14:43

I would be shocked if GRR Martin finished the books. Ever.

Also, wtf is the actual point of the Lord of Light? Do the books explain this any better?

IIRC, the Lord of Light is also known as the Red God. Object of worship of a monotheistic religion. Likes burning people alive. Has a prophecy about a warrior-king who will rise up to save the world from total darkness - "the Prince that was Promised". Could theoretically be Jon/Aegon, Dany, Stannis, among others (I think Euron is one of the potential PTWP in the books, actually). (Stannis is still alive in the books, IIRC, but we're only on book five.)

It should probably be remembered that Martin wrote the books, in part, to subvert popular fantasy. So it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the prophecy turned out to be complete bunk.

The biggest disappointment is Jon Snow has needed to grow a pair of balls for a long time. Instead of being like, oh "You're muh Queen!" constantly.

Jon Snow is pretty much literally Orlando Bloom's Balian of Ibelin from Kingdom of Heaven: A boring character, obsessed with being honorable, and surrounded by much more interesting characters. Except Balian of Ibelin wasn't a total idiot on tactical, strategic, or operational levels. And he didn't blindly follow someone out of a sense of honor, but only because he felt they were a moral person.

...

You know what?

Orlando Bloom's Balian of Ibelin is more interesting than Jon Snow. And that's depressing.

Grand58742

05-13-19, 16:02

Far better than the previous two I thought. My disappointment was how Cersei went out. Hoped she'd get hers in a more dramatic manner. I kept thinking Jaime was going to stick a blade in her, but nope, he really did go back to her.

There is a theory she and Jaime aren't dead. Most of the time it's fairly clear who dies and who does not.

If she really did go out that way and the writers did it intentionally, that blows.

Whoever wins sits on the throne and is totally dejected because of the cost. My money is on Sansa or Tyrion. The Worm turns on Jon and DANI whacks him, Arya kills Dani. Though, we haven’t heard from High Garden or those sluty people down south.

Don't forget the slutty gal from the Iron Islands, Yara.

Or Bronn.

Grand58742

05-13-19, 16:05

Alex V

05-13-19, 16:08

Considering the seemingly total destruction of the Red Keep, if the throne still exists, that's another fail for the season in my view (along with the never ending supply of Dothraki who were wiped out to a man in the bazaar but visually cool charge into the zombies) but it will not surprise me if it still exists considering the season... That building was leveled right to its sub basements from what they showed. It would be far better if she claims it was best to wipe it all out and start fresh, make a new Iron Throne, than have the throne survive.

Most nerds online and YT saying it is still there. Another Fail? Maybe, but they have to at least play out her vision from the House of the Undying. Now we know it wasn't snow in the throne room, it was ash.

MountainRaven

05-13-19, 17:48

The biggest thing people are missing or have missed from last night is the scrolls Varys was writing in the opening scene. It shows a small pile of them telling whomever the recipient was about Jon Snow's true identity. Later, when he was arrested, they are all missing. Seems he might have sent a few of them out informing Westeros of what was happening.

Varys' death seemed quick and cheap. However, I have this feeling his death was a red herring for something else. He didn't have to go out like that since he easily could have disappeared and told the various Houses the truth from a safe location.

Something is up on that front.

He was burning one of them when the Unsullied came for him.

Maybe symbolically sending it to the Lord of Light or presaging his own death? I don't think there's any reason to show him writing it down if he's only going to burn it.

And it seems to me likely that he expects his death to be an exclamation point on his claim. While it seems that Ned Stark's death did not put an exclamation mark on his findings about Cersei's children, so it might be poor writing - since apparently being killed for treason immediately after claiming the current claimant to the throne is illegitimate doesn't mean anything. Or it might be that Varys sent the news to all Seven Kingdoms, rather than just informing the Baratheons, as Ned did.

Never mind that Dany killed the head of her intelligence network, the most effective intelligence network in Westeros.

Or that Dany seems to think that the people of Westeros should love her because, while she'd worked long and hard to earn the admiration of the people's she liberated previously (people who did not, it must be added, universally love her). But whatever.

jpmuscle

05-13-19, 18:04

Maybe we’re all going to get rick rolled going forward??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MountainRaven

05-13-19, 18:30

Maybe we’re all going to get rick rolled going forward??

Oh.

I'm calling it: The last episode opens with George RR Martin waking up in bed from a nightmare, his wife asks what's wrong, and he tells her that he dreamt that he wrote a book series that was intentionally made to be impossible to translate to TV or movies, but was made into a TV series on HBO that was actually really good, until the last couple of seasons when it all fell apart and he never finished writing the book series the show was based on. And she asks, "What's an HBO?"

docsherm

05-13-19, 21:20

Oh.

I'm calling it: The last episode opens with George RR Martin waking up in bed from a nightmare, his wife asks what's wrong, and he tells her that he dreamt that he wrote a book series that was intentionally made to be impossible to translate to TV or movies, but was made into a TV series on HBO that was actually really good, until the last couple of seasons when it all fell apart and he never finished writing the book series the show was based on. And she asks, "What's an HBO?"

Soooooo kind of like the second Bob Newhart Show? ;)

The_War_Wagon

05-13-19, 21:26

I predict they switch to McCafe... :rolleyes:

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-13-19, 23:39

MountainRaven

05-13-19, 23:57

I still think it is something that the world they are in is on the inside of a sphere, almost a Dyson Sphere really.

I'm really curious what the explanation would be for why the seasons are so unusually - and unpredictably - long.

(I understand that there really isn't an explanation beyond, "story-telling." Or maybe, "magic.")

Jellybean

05-14-19, 00:26

So the snow in her vision at the House of the Undying was ash...hmmm...

I think we all know Grey Worm just wanted to waste everybody after Missandei got whacked. I almost feel like there may have been more to their conversation the evening before....like they'd already agreed it was going to be a no-quarter assault.
I think Dany's sense of betrayal on all fronts left her feeling like she had better betray everybody else first. That and the loss of pretty much everybody she started out with. I totally expected her to roast the Red Keep when she started flying at it, and then....

A big scene with Jaime and uncle Greyjoy. A half assed character with all the thought, dimension, and development as the bad guy from Commando.

I actually thought that was meh, but also kind of an ironic end for a guy like Euron- everything's a big show for him, he's all about the notoriety. And that moment when he's laying there like "But I got you...I'm the man that killed Jaime Lannister..." He HAS to say it because nobody else will ever know...

SnowGareon’s men going from honorable fighters to slaughtering rapists in an instant?

To be fair...they're not just his men- they're from ALL the northern houses who sent men to fight the WW...so sure, for the less moral among them, they probably would. Shit happens when you sack cities..

The mongol horde I guess was in character, but weren’t all of them just wiped out?

Yes, but if you re-watch #3, some of them do make it back after that ill-advised charge. Granted...not enough to have that full-on cav charge at the beginning of this episode, but...whatever.

So the key to successfully deploying dragons is.... trying harder?

I actually facepalmed a little when that went down. Like...the iron fleet can throw up a big enough, accurate enough cloud of bolts to hit a dragon MULTIPLE times, and this time around it's not like they got taken by surprise- they saw her coming...and she was even dumb enough to go full frontal at them to start with... And both the ENTIRE iron fleet and ALL the ballistae on the wall of Kings Landing suddenly are kindling crewed by redshirts [literally....:laugh: ].
OK, so sure...they ran the dragon around the side of the fleet like they should have last episode. Yay. But there's no way the bolt-tossers on the wall wouldn't have seen shit going down in the harbor and A) opened fire too, and B) passed the word along.
You're telling me the guys on the wall behind the Golden Company don't hear shit going down behind them and turn around to look? Come on now...
Further...let's say they did get taken by surprise.... their weapons emplacement are stupid- they should have had those bolt throwers stationed on various high buildings throughout the city, specifically in case of this, to provide overlapping cover.
OR at least also on the walls directly around the Red Keep as a second line of fire. Hell, that might have at least provided *some* plausible incentive to torch the whole town...

....My only problem is that this psychopathy suddenly manifests itself over 2 episodes. Better writing would've given us more of an indication, besides just roasting the Tullys, like if Varys's "flipping a coin" line had been uttered in Season 4 when he hitches up with her (actually, maybe it was, but I don't remember).

I gotta agree. I've been calling it since that moment with the Tarley's, and she has had a penchant for random and extreme acts of violence when trying to exert her authority (like crucifying the Masters), BUT up to that point, the targets of her ire generally deserved it.

Jaime's ending is one of the biggest disappointments for me so far. That is the epitome of slopping writing in this last season. Yeah, I'm sure Martin would be fine with "bad guys stay bad in the end", but even if that was the point, come up with something better than the two of them being buried alive.

I mean, on the other hand....reality is boring. Everyone expected a "thing" to happen, and they just get buried...it happens.
But yeah...I'd have liked a *little* more than that.
The only consolation is that awful Dornish sloot is definitely ketchup too.

Clegane-bowl was never going to live up to the hype, but I thought it was an appropriate end. I actually loved when Sandor is laughing from of his sheer inability to kill The Mountain.

I think it's one of those moments where he's always build his brother up in his mind as this undefeatable figure, and his fear has kept him form even attempting to try to take him out, and finally when he gets to the point where he doesn't care anymore...the dude is *literally* unkillable...

You gotta look at this whole episode as ironic- the ultimate irony being Dany's previous obsession with being the free-er of everyone...

The biggest disappointment is Jon Snow has needed to grow a pair of balls for a long time. Instead of being like, oh "You're muh Queen!" constantly.

In the words of a certain Wildling girl- "You know nothing Jon Snow..." :laugh:
And a beating of the dead horse that likely this would never happened if he'd have stuck to his guns when negotiating for the dragonglass....

IIRC, the Lord of Light is also known as the Red God. Object of worship of a monotheistic religion. Likes burning people alive....

Well, he was well pleased today...
But yeah, I love how they just tossed all that in the shitter once Stannis got deleted.

The biggest thing people are missing or have missed from last night is the scrolls Varys was writing in the opening scene. It shows a small pile of them telling whomever the recipient was about Jon Snow's true identity. Later, when he was arrested, they are all missing. Seems he might have sent a few of them out informing Westeros of what was happening....

Oh, I'm sure he got some of them out- I think his main purpose in writing them was because, once he had that conversation with Tyrion about trading Dany for Jon, he knew his days were numbered, and he needed to ensure the information didn't get buried with him. Dany thinks she's stopped the plot by roasting him...but the wave has yet to break.
And after today's battle...she's done. The Tarley's could have been written off as an overzealous mistake, but not a 9/11 event like this...

My prediction-
Arya attempts to kill Dany. Grey worm intercepts, then Jon steps in to save Arya and he and GW fight it out.
IF Jon survives, he'll boot Dany out of Westeros- she can take her remaining dragon and Unsullied and go back to Mereen.

Or... Jon dies fighting with GW, the Unsullied and Northmen fight it out, ending in more or less a mutual slaughter (someone did rumor the end was just a big battlefield with everyone dead, right?). Stunned at the death of Jamie and seeing that Varys was right, Tyrion shanks Dany and then gets roasted by an angry dragon.
Everyone dies, everything ends in the suckiest way possible. The end, thanks for 10 years... :laugh: