View Full Version : Light/Laser Placement and Activation Poll
BallisticHarmony
11-26-18, 00:09
I’m trying to narrow down how I’d like to set up my HD and Emergency SBR. I’m thinking in terms of both ergonomics, negligent discharge mitigation and reliability. SBR would be a KAC 11.5” MOD 2 with an OSS Helix QD-K, the white light would be an M600DF, and the IR device would be the MAWL. Right handed.
I understand that the current philosophy is that momentary on, especially when using white light, is ideal for avoiding exposure and that the light should only be activated when engaging a target or securing a new position. However, I’m concerned that recoil will inadvertently push the thumb off the activation pad or cause a constant-on activation, and this would only be exacerbated with a tailcap button as opposed to a switch like the TAPS Pro. I also don’t fully see the benefit of using the TAPS Pro with a MAWL since the MAWL already has accessible buttons with different functions, although they could still both be used when not using the TAPS. My thoughts so far are these:
1. The simplest setup would be light at 10:30 with a tailcap switch. No TAPS Pro cables to get unplugged or hung up on something, and less chance of an ND.
2. Running the TAPS at 12:00 would allow the green laser to be slaved to the M600DF for additional aiming ability in low light situations, and would allow for ambi control of both systems.
3. Everyone seems to like running their light on the right-hand side, I assume for more visibility down the front of the gun. Don’t know how much of a difference this actually makes. However, if it was under the MAWL at 3:00 that would mean more risk of ground splash, as well as more extreme breaking of cover to prevent wall splash when aiming around a corner.
4. With one button to control visible light/laser and the other just for the MAWL for when it’s in IR mode, that means that the buttons can only be programmed for momentary or constant on in each setting. Still don’t know what’s ideal.
5. I suppose that both TAPS buttons could be programmed purely for the visible light and laser spectrum, one for momentary and one for constant. The MAWL integral buttons could still be used during IR modes and TAPS wouldn’t be used.
These are probably silly hair-splitting things to consider, but I just want to set up my rifle as well as I can since it will be a lifeline (hopefully a never-needed one, but nevertheless). Thanks for reading and I’d appreciate any advice.
I don't have any time behind a TAPS Pro, so I can't reasonably comment on that. Another option could be an SR07 at 12:00 behind the MAWL to control the white light and use the built-in buttons for the MAWL. I may do that at the beginning when I get a MAWL myself. I'd put the light at 3:00.
BallisticHarmony
11-26-18, 10:18
I don't have any time behind a TAPS Pro, so I can't reasonably comment on that. Another option could be an SR07 at 12:00 behind the MAWL to control the white light and use the built-in buttons for the MAWL. I may do that at the beginning when I get a MAWL myself. I'd put the light at 3:00.
Could you elaborate on the 3:00 placement?
You mount the MAWL on the 12:00 rail, so it hangs at about 1:00. Mount the scout light directly under it. Here's an example image from a google image search (not hot-linked on purpose):
http://cdn3<dot>volusion.com/mwhql.trvsw/v/vspfiles/photos/NV.BEM.002-2T.jpg
BallisticHarmony
11-26-18, 11:36
You mount the MAWL on the 12:00 rail, so it hangs at about 1:00. Mount the scout light directly under it. Here's an example image from a google image search (not hot-linked on purpose):
http://cdn3<dot>volusion.com/mwhql.trvsw/v/vspfiles/photos/NV.BEM.002-2T.jpg
Yeah I understand where it goes, but why would you put it there vs 10:30 on the left so it sits up higher?
Oh, I understand your question now.
(1) Because that appears how everyone else does it (including the TNVC guys who first introduced me to the MAWL)
(2) When a barricade is on my left (which is the preferred side), it lets me jam the rail itself up against the barricade rather than having things sticking out an inch or more.
Intuitively, (2) seems better than the alternative, but that is similar to (1) in that my reasoning is "People who are a lot smarter than me, with a lot more time on the two-way range do it that way."
BallisticHarmony
11-26-18, 12:31
Oh, I understand your question now.
(1) Because that appears how everyone else does it (including the TNVC guys who first introduced me to the MAWL)
(2) When a barricade is on my left (which is the preferred side), it lets me jam the rail itself up against the barricade rather than having things sticking out an inch or more.
Intuitively, (2) seems better than the alternative, but that is similar to (1) in that my reasoning is "People who are a lot smarter than me, with a lot more time on the two-way range do it that way."
Wouldn't you like a barrier stop at 9:00 then, instead of using the rail which may not have as much grip? I thought that actually touching a rifle against a barricade is only recommended for competition.
You can program the taps pro for other functions too, like double tap.
That way you have a constant on option if you want it.
"The heart of TAPS Pro is a user-programmable PCB featuring device isolation and redundant circuitry. Programmability is the key feature that gives the user complete control over how he/she operates weapon-mounted devices. The system can be configured to allow either button to control either lead. Next, the buttons themselves can be programmed to function in a multitude of ways:
•Momentary
•Constant
•Press for Momentary, Double Tap for Constant
•Tap for Constant, Press & Hold (>2 sec) for Momentary
•Slave Device Mode (both devices fire on one button press)
•Device Auto Shutdown Option
•Button Assignment"
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Furbyballer
11-26-18, 19:31
If you really care about trying to mitigate a ND of white light do the tail cap. This is how my NV guns are all set up. If you want or need ambi access to your laser, use the tape switch only for IR.
No switch needed as its just a matter of time before they crap out. MAWL mounted on 12:00 rail with your Surefire in that 10:30 area as your leaning toward. I'm running a BCM 11.5 with BCM 10" rail. DD fixed front sight is located so that support hand thumb touches it with my natural grip. MAWL is mounted directly behind that and my M600DF is positioned on the right side so that my thumb has to just slide off the front sight to activate the click switch on the tailcap. ALL switches are activated just by moving my thumb be they white or whatever the MAWL setting is, VIS or IR.
I actually have my M600 mounted in front of my front sight on the 12:00 rail with a RM45 offset mount that sits on top of a small riser to elevate the light. I really dont like the 9:00 rail mounting position or any of the mounts that put it at 10:30 from the 9:00 position. My click switch is in the same area just a little higher. I run an Omega can with a cover so if the light is mounted low the shadow cast by running the light is pretty drastic on the right side of the weapon and doesn't give me the visual info I want.
Honestly I really dont see why anyone would mount their light under the MAWL at 3:00 or even use the TAPS switch even though it is the switch to run if your going to run one. When you need to switch things on and OFF just to much real estate to cover with changing your grip when you want to be pulling the trigger. Here's the deal, when you need white light turn it on and do what you need to do and then turn it off, don't over think it. Too much has been made off turning it on for a second and turning it off and moving like an ninja. If I have work to do the light is ON and when I am done it goes OFF however long that may take. I obviously need the visual data or it wouldn't be on in the first place.
As far as splash goes there are just as many LH corners or barriers in the world as RH to deal with. I think you are headed in the right direction but once you have everything your just going to have to get out there and tweek what works best for you most of the time rather than give into the what if? I believe its better to be effective from the start than compromised at the beginning.
TNVC Night Fighter & TNVC Armed Professional Grad
BallisticHarmony
11-27-18, 11:50
Very useful information crossgun, thank you. I like the idea of no cables or extra failure points so I think I'll keep it simple as you suggest. Only sad part is that there won't be much ability to use the visible green laser in conjunction with the light, unless it's just kept on, but I guess aiming is what the NF NX8 will be good for.
How to set up a rifle:
1) Attach iron sights. If no irons are to be used, attach primary sighting system.
2) Define your natural point of aim. Zero irons. If no irons, zero primary sight.
3) If irons were zeroed, attach optic if it will be used. Without adjusting length of pull or natural point of aim, set eye relief appropriately and zero.
4) Attach light. It should be positioned where it is both intuitive to operate and does not disturb your NPOA.
5) Attach laser. It should be positioned where it is intuitive, does not cause splashback from sights or light, and does not interfere with your NPOA.
You have now set up your rifle to work with your specific body mechanics.
Too many people copy and paste setups that end up doing nothing but hindering them because it interferes with their natural mechanics.
Good luck to you, OP.
Very useful information crossgun, thank you. I like the idea of no cables or extra failure points so I think I'll keep it simple as you suggest. Only sad part is that there won't be much ability to use the visible green laser in conjunction with the light, unless it's just kept on, but I guess aiming is what the NF NX8 will be good for.
Guess I am a little confused about ability to use vis laser with white light? Why not? What am I missing?
BallisticHarmony
11-27-18, 14:04
Guess I am a little confused about ability to use vis laser with white light? Why not? What am I missing?
Well the TAPS would allow the laser to be slaved to the light so they could be fired simultaneously, but if you’re just using a tail cap then you’d need to keep the laser on with the MAWL’s 2 minute constant on and use the flashlight at will. I guess if you’re not using IR, there’s still gonna be some ambient light, so your laser isn’t gonna be tracing a line right back to you for everyone to see.
Well the TAPS would allow the laser to be slaved to the light so they could be fired simultaneously, but if you’re just using a tail cap then you’d need to keep the laser on with the MAWL’s 2 minute constant on and use the flashlight at will. I guess if you’re not using IR, there’s still gonna be some ambient light, so your laser isn’t gonna be tracing a line right back to you for everyone to see.
I mostly viewed the laser as "value added" and mainly good for zeroing the IR/confirming zero in daylight.
I mostly viewed the laser as "value added" and mainly good for zeroing the IR/confirming zero in daylight.
What about a scenario where you have an immediate need to transition from IR laser and NVG mode optic to white light? Couldn't you peak under your NODS and engage with the vis laser faster than switching your optic back to visible mode?
What about a scenario where you have an immediate need to transition from IR laser and NVG mode optic to white light? Couldn't you peak under your NODS and engage with the vis laser faster than switching your optic back to visible mode?
Have to switch the MAWL to VIS first, too, which kindof makes that a bit of a fantasy argument, IMO, no?
Have to switch the MAWL to VIS first, too, which kindof makes that a bit of a fantasy argument, IMO, no?
Maybe. I'm not super familiar with the MAWL.
You can easily do it with a DBAL with the visible override port or Perst-2 with the back button.
So it's a real possibility.
As far as fantasy, I've had to do it in a night match before. Real life? Not me, but John Lovell spoke of a similar situation.
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