View Full Version : Geissele Complete Rifle for 750 USD
Defaultmp3
11-28-18, 23:10
https://www.pressreader.com/usa/firepower/20190101/281522227093528
Seems a bit too elaborate to be a hoax. Interested to see if the intermediate gas system is the Noveske, KAC, or perhaps based off the BRT. I am assuming that pricing is for LE only.
That seems crazy cheap for that but we can hope and pray
The rifle seems nice, but from a marketing perspective, and brand standpoint this seems very odd.
Why would Geissele's first impression into the complete AR market be one featuring ALG products. A $750 rifle with ALG parts from ALG makes perfect sense, but I wouldn't dilute the name Geissele Automatics with anything but Bill's top shelf kit and Geissele parts on it. A Geissele rifle should have a Geissele trigger and rail, no? That's exactly why ALG was setup in the first place.
Geissele has already made complete rifles that are absolutely "super", and live very much up to their name. I want to see Geissele rifles compete with SR-15s, and MARS MRPs. Let ALG cover the masses, and leave Geissele for the uber projects.
I don't understand the choice of the ALG rail. I don't have a visible/IR laser on any of my carbines yet, but they will eventually all have them. That's also why they all have (or will have) Geissele or Hodge rails where feasible.
Appears to be an excellent LE offering that will function and fit all those that it rides with on patrol. Price should also fit the LE community. Another very well thought out product from Bill and his team!
In the end the author never says what you get for 750 bucks. If it includes metal fixed/folding sights and B5 stock that's a deal. If not it's overpriced IMO. Bill's name is worth something to us but outside of a pretty small circle he is relatively unknown. I hope he knows what he is doing.
I think this is brilliant.
They supply a limited quantity of super-expensive equipment to the federal government’s unlimited budget, then undercut EVERYONE with more than any patrol officer could ever need, for less than a Colt. With a chrome lined barrel and some bonus goodies, plus a easier-to-use gas system to balance things for officers that don’t go to the range like SOFD-D.
What agency wouldn’t choose this over other options?
JediGuy - So long as the department knows which guys need, for example, a rifle with a real Geissele rail rather than the ALG rail, I agree.
Hopefully they are releasing a few models including a G’d out one.
The rifle seems nice, but from a marketing perspective, and brand standpoint this seems very odd.
Why would Geissele's first impression into the complete AR market be one featuring ALG products. A $750 rifle with ALG parts from ALG makes perfect sense, but I wouldn't dilute the name Geissele Automatics with anything but Bill's top shelf kit and Geissele parts on it. A Geissele rifle should have a Geissele trigger and rail, no? That's exactly why ALG was setup in the first place.
Geissele has already made complete rifles that are absolutely "super", and live very much up to their name. I want to see Geissele rifles compete with SR-15s, and MARS MRPs. Let ALG cover the masses, and leave Geissele for the uber projects.
dirkmagurk
11-29-18, 09:24
IMO this seems to be an extremely high quality rifle for the money. I appreciate that they are pinning the gas block on these rifles, wish more manufacturers would do the same. If it comes in at this price point I can see myself picking one up for the pile.
Vegasshooter
11-29-18, 11:53
Curious if they’ll be an “LE Only” or: letterhead to buy it, or if that will just be who they market to. SHOT 2019 is shaping up now. A new reticle from NF, this from Geiselle. Things are picking up again.
Is this taken from an unreleased magazine article and leaked pre-shot?
Seems to be.
The article date is 1 Jan 2019, presumably for the January issue of Firepower.
Is this taken from an unreleased magazine article and leaked pre-shot?
I was wondering the same thing.
Is this taken from an unreleased magazine article and leaked pre-shot?
Seems to be.
The article date is 1 Jan 2019, presumably for the January issue of Firepower.
Thank you. I feel bad for Geissele and the magazine which allowed their info to be made public ahead of its time frame. A coordinated release for new products is highly effective, things like this are quite damaging.
wetidlerjr
11-29-18, 16:28
This is also posted on TOS in the Geissele industry forum. No response from Geissele at this time.
CrowCommand
11-29-18, 17:20
Seems to be.
The article date is 1 Jan 2019, presumably for the January issue of Firepower.
I noticed the same.
While it stinks if the info really was stolen and posted ahead of the plan, ya gotta admit, Bill leaks like an 80 year-old woman when it comes to keeping things under wraps. I don't begrudge him his excitement; it thrills me too, but he lets a lot of stuff out of the bag when he gets talking in front of a camera.
sidewaysil80
11-29-18, 18:15
If true/accurate I predict a monoply on AR market.
Geissele has responded on TOS thanking everyone for their interest and to stay tuned for SHOT '19. I'm very excited to say the least.
dirkmagurk
11-29-18, 18:45
If true/accurate I predict a monoply on AR market.
Same here. If that price is accurate this rifle will sell like crazy. Competitors are charging close to or just as much for only an URG. And many manufacturers charging that aren’t pinning their gas blocks or including upgraded parts.
Is this taken from an unreleased magazine article and leaked pre-shot?
The magazine has been as my local grocery store since last weekend.
jackblack73
11-29-18, 20:39
I noticed the date when I first looked at this thread too. But it's not unusual for a magazine to be released before its date. Especially if it's a quarterly magazine.
wetidlerjr
11-30-18, 07:06
No mystery, no ulterior motives; possible inexpensive quality rifle. Winning! :smile:
Confirmed by geissele
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/a1l43c/z/earvyat
Also confirmed as being available for LE only. No word if it is for agency only or if individual officers will be able to purchase.
I wonder if the $750 price is more a LE blue label-ish price than retail?
I wonder if the $750 price is more a LE blue label-ish price than retail?
Who knows, but they'd still fly off the shelves priced a bit more like a 6920, I think.
This is why I support Bill whenever possible. Not only top tier products but also a strong supporter of local law enforcement. This rifle looks like it will be a huge success.
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I wonder if the $750 price is more a LE blue label-ish price than retail?
Seems likely to me. I could see a $950/999 retail price being more accurate.
masenomics
12-02-18, 14:24
So this rifle will be LE only or will regular joes be able to get one? Total let down if it won't be available to the public
The price point shown is likely the LE pricing. I'd plan on normal dude pricing to be north of $1000. I'll likely buy one if the price point is legit.
I wonder if the $750 price is more a LE blue label-ish price than retail?
It may very well be the price without FET, and at department pricing. That would certainly increase the price if so...
It may very well be the price without FET, and at department pricing. That would certainly increase the price if so...He'd have to be going to the agency direct.
This wouldn't make sense thru distributors or rep groups. There's absolutely no margin in it. I know what it cost to build a solid rifle with solid components.
If there is, then I'd love to see the specs on every part as provided.
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You can count me out on anything with an ALG rail or trigger.
Now a geiselle rail, trigger and Daniel defense forged barrel would get me excited. Especially other the rail, receiver sets were DDC.
You can count me out on anything with an ALG rail or trigger.
Now a geiselle rail, trigger and Daniel defense forged barrel would get me excited. Especially other the rail, receiver sets were DDC.
Too good for mil spec are you?
Too good for mil spec are you?
Trigger wise, yes. No interest, I don’t care how ‘nice’ it is. All my guns have two stage triggers, geiselle or larue.
ALG rail is not mil spec and not my cup of single in a single way.
My bet is Bill can build this for $600-650 his fully loaded cost (all in, but no margin). Remember, they are mfg for all of the expensive parts and most of the rest.
So our "sum of the parts cost" needs to be based on likely mfg cost, not our typical wholesale/volume builder cost. I used "best sale ever"/black Friday as estimates, assuming they'd sell at cost, but not below, as their loss leader.
For mfg level cost for the Upper + lower receiver pair I assumed $100 as we know they would not do their own forging and already have coating deals.
Really, he'd have to contract out the barrel, receivers, maybe the b5 stock. FH, buffer, small parts are all commodity except for his "improved" ones, which I assume he could make competitive with contract cost given ALG economy of scale.
So that would leave him $100 profit if agency direct and no excise tax. Then blue label is that plus FET plus a pass through margin for dealer handling.
Then add more margin for distributor/dealer/buying group to sell retail if they decide to offer it down the road.
My (mis/in informed) view is this would be a good seller at $950 street price retail to Joe civvy. Maybe a k-buck. Beyond that, most of us would get a 6920 deal or OEM and put and ALG rail/trigger on it. Maybe/maybe not do an enhanced bcg. DD 1.5 rear site or MP pro, etc.
You'd miss the improved/non-standard extension/feed ramps, etc.
I also look to some of the Colt/centurian deals for comparison. I know there will be many who say the rifle could not be built for this and make money. But I believe a manufacturer the size of ALG or Colt certainly could. Certainly $750 agency direct.
Retail over $1200??? It will sit on the shelf or be small volume like DD or others have ended up. That until some big sea change driven by external factors like political change, pending legislation, etcetera.
We know Bill/ALG quality/brand. But Joe Sixpack avg AR buyer largely does not. Crowded/mature market.
But that's just my opinion. I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong. It's ok, I'm married so I'm used to that!!!!
IMHO, right now is probably the best time to buy an AR15 that there has ever been. A refined and mature design (unless you are buying the bottom feeder garbage), the current political climate, a glut of slow moving inventory and competition among manufactures and dealers, all lead to a sweet price on a quality AR15 rifle today. I have no doubt this will be another fine tier 1 type AR15 rifle for most people, but some of us still prefer to have it done up our way, instead of an off the shelf rifle done up someone else’s way.
Found the comment by Geissele.
From what they said it looks like agency purchase only. That's probably due to the demand being bigger than they could supply for the regular market. Still doesn't make Geissele look good to not offer this to the general population imo.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/a1l43c/my_geissele_black_friday_order_arrived_mk7/
54848
From the reddit comment, assuming it’s a legit GA account, it just affirms that it’ll be limited to LE, which seemed like a solid bet from the get go, based on the naming convention and rumored pricing. Tough to say whether it’ll be offered as IOP, a la blue label, or strictly to agencies.
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Still doesn't make Geissele look good to not offer this to the general population imo.
I don’t feel this way. I applaud them for offering a quality affordable package to LE etc. There are so many affordable options for the consumer at this point, not having access to this is not a big deal imo. We are spoiled currently. Perhaps it’s a bandwidth thing? They can’t produce them in sufficient enough numbers for the retail market?
I don’t feel this way. I applaud them for offering a quality affordable package to LE etc. There are so many affordable options for the consumer at this point, not having access to this is not a big deal imo. We are spoiled currently. Perhaps it’s a bandwidth thing? They can’t produce them in sufficient enough numbers for the retail market?
I agree. There’s no reason this doesn’t look good for Geissele. I can’t believe people would get up in arms because an excellent parts manufacturer ventures into the full rifle market with something (even initially) only available to the people who are more likely to actually use them in a life-or-death situation. Please.
Pretty sure the reason it's limited to LEO is this is testing a proof on concept, and production capabilities....limiting this to LEO agencies allows Geissele to meet a relatively small demand, and test their production capabilities while breaking into the complete AR market. This allows them to not expose themselves to the incredible demand should it be offered to the general public, thus inevitably letting down customers with delays, or potential problems and lowing their extremely hard earned reputation.
I'm not LEO so I'm not just saying that cause I'm gonna score one through an agency or something.
If this works, I imagine I'll be getting the Geissele uber rifle I've been wanting, along with many others on this forum. I'd rather wait for that Geissele rifle anyways.
Good on geissele sounds like a nice rifle
But that article read like it was written by someone who is not a native English speaker
Kinda strange
I don’t feel this way. I applaud them for offering a quality affordable package to LE etc. There are so many affordable options for the consumer at this point, not having access to this is not a big deal imo. We are spoiled currently. Perhaps it’s a bandwidth thing? They can’t produce them in sufficient enough numbers for the retail market?
I agree. There’s no reason this doesn’t look good for Geissele. I can’t believe people would get up in arms because an excellent parts manufacturer ventures into the full rifle market with something (even initially) only available to the people who are more likely to actually use them in a life-or-death situation. Please.
Pretty sure the reason it's limited to LEO is this is testing a proof on concept, and production capabilities....limiting this to LEO agencies allows Geissele to meet a relatively small demand, and test their production capabilities while breaking into the complete AR market. This allows them to not expose themselves to the incredible demand should it be offered to the general public, thus inevitably letting down customers with delays, or potential problems and lowing their extremely hard earned reputation.
I'm not LEO so I'm not just saying that cause I'm gonna score one through an agency or something.
If this works, I imagine I'll be getting the Geissele uber rifle I've been wanting, along with many others on this forum. I'd rather wait for that Geissele rifle anyways.I said these things. My thoughts are that they cannot meet the demand of the market, that's why they limit it's sale. My point is that when you are a company that has the support of thousands of private firearm owners, you should at least recognize that, and offer up a timeline. Every company has teething issues when they grow, this is a good workaround for them I think. People were upset when other companies did the same thing that geissele is doing with this rifle, that's all I'm saying.
I own lots of geissele and alg products, and will continue to buy them. I hope some day these will be available to regular guys. This would be an amazing rifle for buyers who would otherwise buy incorrectly built and low quality rifles at a similar price.
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I agree about remembering people complaining about LEO exclusive rifles, handguns. Things like only making TAP T2 widely available for LEO is something that still burns me.
If Geissele was not so well regarded as an incredibly civilian friendly company, I think this would go differently for them. I think they now have a good grasp on just how crazy demand is for their kit, especially after the big sales they've had that crashed servers in minutes.
I also agree this is an excellent entry market level rifle, and could give the 6920 a run for it's money potentially...but do they have Colt's production capability. I imagine this is a problem that every company would love to deal with. Bill now has to be a master engineer, and master businessman.
Excellent marketing strategy. Initially available to LE only = tons of demand for non LE which is where most firearm manufacturers make their money.
Agreed, Geissele has been a huge supporter of the civilian market. I will eventually have hands on this rifle, as a number of my clients are LEO. That said Geissele could have said that this rifle at this price is for LEO only but in the future we will be offering civilian versions at adjusted price points. Instead they brilliantly created demand in a community that will pay out the nose for this as it is restricted. Good move, they have done this with the urgi, and the mk4federal rail.
I'm not upset that its not immediately available to us regular guys. I was just reminding everybody that when other companies, that are no so favored in our small community, did the same they were blasted for it.
Vegasshooter
12-06-18, 17:00
This will be probably the only rifle to pull me away from my KAC’s. Not forever, but at least long enough to buy one. I’m sure it will be a very solid gun at what looks like a fantastic price point. We’ll see, but I’m optimistic. As if the Geiselle booth isn’t crazy enough at SHOT Show, this year it’ll be worse!!
Looking forward to this one.
According to the article, the carrier is nano-coated but the bolt itself is only phosphate. Why wouldn't the bolt also be nano-coated? Makes no sense.
According to the article, the carrier is nano-coated but the bolt itself is only phosphate. Why wouldn't the bolt also be nano-coated? Makes no sense.
I agree, probably a typo. Geissele does stuff right so I doubt they would nano coat one and not the other.
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Defaultmp3
01-25-19, 18:53
Here is the 750 USD LE only version: https://geissele.com/super-duty-le-16-black.html
Here is the civilian side of things, with the customization: https://geissele.com/rifles/super-duty-rifles.html
Interesting.
+$200 for a chf barrel. +$125 or $250 to add NANO to the bcg. Quite a premium, IMO. More than I expected at least. I didn't expect a Geissele rifle to be cheap.
That is a really high premium for CHF. I’m also surprised Bill didn’t mention the Nanocoating in this video. He talked it up last year but it’s been very quiet ever since, unless I just missed it.
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Interesting.
+$200 for a chf barrel. +$125 or $250 to add NANO to the bcg. Quite a premium, IMO. More than I expected at least. I didn't expect a Geissele rifle to be cheap.
The up-charges DO make it seem like an expensive proposition; through until we know the base price, it's hard to say for sure. Using the LE rifle ($750) as an example, let's say Geissele is throwing the coppers a $100-$150 bone, so the non-LE model starts around $900. If you add a CHF barrel, A2, ACH, nano BCG, SMR rail, premium LPK, SSA and basic grip, sights and buffer; you're at $1835. It's certainly going to play in the "premium" AR space, it'll be interesting to see how the market responds, not to mention see how the actual street pricing shakes out.
I will say, the SD LE rifle appears to be a heck of a deal. I'm looking forward to them getting into the wild. It's hard to see a scenario in which I don't end up with one.
The premium stuff is niche market and not intended to compete with PSA or similar market. Different market, different customer base, and probably more lucrative.
Nocalsocal
01-25-19, 20:55
As much as I don't really need this. I'm tempted to get one because of the excellent price and the barrel. Intermediate length gas system along with a modified barrel extension to better handle M855a1. I'm not too crazy about the rail. But that's strictly based on it's looks not on function.
Do I need this? No, not really but having an all Geissele gun would be sweet..
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Look at LMT, or KAC's first rifle.....adjust for tech inflation, and I bet these Geissele rifles are well ahead of where they were in their evolution timeline.
Bill Geissele has the magic touch like Karl Lewis, and C. Reed Knight Jr. imho.
It's going to sell because fans gotta be a fan. I hold my allegiances to no one. Don't get me wrong, Bill does make a nice trigger but there are other options if for some reason someone wants something else. And the handguard isn't the only one that is rugged in the market, lets get this straight first and foremost. Nothing against Bill as his CS is great but truth be told I'd rather have a production KAC or a pre death Noveske as it has more to offer to me than just another rifle that the market be they factory or a builders is already saturated with...or even do another build using an ADM ambi lower as the basis and use the parts I want in it because asides from the trigger, there's nothing else that I would want that is made by Geiselle as there are better options out there better suited for me.
Eurodriver
01-26-19, 07:13
It's going to sell because fans gotta be a fan. I hold my allegiances to no one. Don't get me wrong, Bill does make a nice trigger but there are other options if for some reason someone wants something else. And the handguard isn't the only one that is rugged in the market, lets get this straight first and foremost. Nothing against Bill as his CS is great but truth be told I'd rather have a production KAC or a pre death Noveske as it has more to offer to me than just another rifle that the market be they factory or a builders is already saturated with...or even do another build using an ADM ambi lower as the basis and use the parts I want in it because asides from the trigger, there's nothing else that I would want that is made by Geiselle as there are better options out there better suited for me.
Ditto.
everready73
01-30-19, 08:01
I know there have been a few here wondering how the Super Duty rifles Geissele is coming out with will be set up. They have several options up on their website 10.3, 14.5, 16, and 18 inch configurations. If you click on the option you want it takes you to a page with a bunch of drop down boxes to customize pretty much everything on the rifle.
Assuming these will be built to order with maybe a few standard options ready to ship when they are ready.
I would guess pricing could vary pretty greatly on what options are chose, but curious as to what the base pricing is for non LEO
The drop down includes options for pretty much every part of the rifle including adding a light and optics. You can choose color, button chrome lined or hammer forged barrel, muzzle device,ch, bcg, lower parts kit, trigger, grip buffer, stock, optics, sights, light.
You can leave some options blank and they include regular milspec options for items like the BCG and CH along with their stuff. ALG and some other brand options as well depending on part.
I think this is a pretty cool way to customize exactly what you want, but again pricing is what will be the factor if i would buy or not. Especially with manufactures such as Centurion coming out with well equipped complete rifles under 1k
https://geissele.com/rifles/super-duty-rifles.html Link shows all lengths available
https://geissele.com/super-duty-16.html Link to 16'' with all drop down options
Are you part of the G machine?
everready73
01-30-19, 12:44
Stickman- I am not. Was interested in the rifle when I heard about it originally and saw this on their website when I was on there yesterday
Just thought I would pass along the information as others have expressed some interest and not many other manufactures give you so many options to customize
I apologize if my post sounds shilly, I am actually expecting the pricing to be a good bit higher than the Duty version and am leaning towards the Centurion rifle at the moment
Stickman- I am not. Was interested in the rifle when I heard about it originally and saw this on their website when I was on there yesterday
Just thought I would pass along the information as others have expressed some interest and not many other manufactures give you so many options to customize
I apologize if my post sounds shilly, I am actually expecting the pricing to be a good bit higher than the Duty version and am leaning towards the Centurion rifle at the moment
Nope didn’t think you were trying to be a shill, I just keep hoping Bill will post over here or let one of his people post in some official capacity.
ETA- thank you for posting the info. ��
everready73
01-30-19, 13:32
Yea would be nice if they had a presence here. I much prefer the level of knowledge on this site compared to the "other" site where Geissele does have a presence.
jschmitt08
04-09-19, 22:32
The rifle can be had with Mk16 rail for an extra $140. Seems like a good add on.
3ACR_Scout
04-11-19, 09:27
I like how you can add a Surefire SF4P for only $135. That’s a much more reasonable price compared to the “gray market” ones going for $300+.
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