View Full Version : I now humbly apologize, and withdraw my earlier position on modern pistols
Not too long ago, I posted the following; it concerned Glocks specifically, but was intended to encompass all striker fired polymer guns:
"Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
"Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash?"
I was wrong. I was wedded to the old and living in the past. I have changed my position. The 1911 is now sitting on the shelf in the gun cabinet. On the hip is an M&P 9mm, in all its polymer glory. I have joined the modern world; late to the party, perhaps, but there nonetheless. The gun I trust my life to in the Big City is indeed polymer and striker-fired.
I guess “you whore” is too harsh. (:
Change seems more difficult as I age.
I am genuinely considering a P10-C. It checked all the boxes.
https://youtu.be/fy8uk-zKkDY
Not too long ago, I posted the following; it concerned Glocks specifically, but was intended to encompass all striker fired polymer guns:
"Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
"Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash?"
I was wrong. I was wedded to the old and living in the past. I have changed my position. The 1911 is now sitting on the shelf in the gun cabinet. On the hip is an M&P 9mm, in all its polymer glory. I have joined the modern world; late to the party, perhaps, but there nonetheless. The gun I trust my life to in the Big City is indeed polymer and striker-fired.
It was the M&P with Apex kit that finally had me make the change from my beloved 1911s, which has been the case for many, even well known 1911 smith, Hilton Yam. You can't be "wrong" by carrying a quality 1911, but we know have polymer guns with ergos that are very close, good triggers (nothing beats a goo 1911 trigger), higher capacity, acceptable accuracy, and less moving parts and need for maintenance. So, that makes it a no brainer for most.
To throw a wrench in all this, the best of all worlds may be the Wilson EDC X9, but I have no experience with it:
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/edc-x9/
Doc Safari
11-30-18, 16:55
Not too long ago, I posted the following; it concerned Glocks specifically, but was intended to encompass all striker fired polymer guns:
"Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
"Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash?"
I was wrong. I was wedded to the old and living in the past. I have changed my position. The 1911 is now sitting on the shelf in the gun cabinet. On the hip is an M&P 9mm, in all its polymer glory. I have joined the modern world; late to the party, perhaps, but there nonetheless. The gun I trust my life to in the Big City is indeed polymer and striker-fired.
I was with you 'til you said "M&P". My Glock is crying. Repent by purchasing a G17 or G19 forthwith.
I love 1911's. I'd sell every "Plastic Fantasic Lover" I have right now if I could have about five 1911's that feed any kind of ammo and don't cost more than a Glock.
In my opinion, liking one platform (1911) doesn't mean that another (plastic fantastic) is automatically disliked.
For carry purposes when size isn't of critical importance, the chosen tool is an aluminum framed a CCO-sized 1911 chambered in .45 Auto. When that's not going to work, a 9mm Gen 1 Shield goes along for the trip.
If firepower trumps all other qualities, a 5" M&P M2.0 9mm, possibly with an extended magazine, is what I'll choose.
Having said that, none of the plastic fantastic approaches the satisfaction of using a fine 1911.
In my opinion, liking one platform (1911) doesn't mean that another (plastic fantastic) is automatically disliked.
For carry purposes when size isn't of critical importance, the chosen tool is an aluminum framed a CCO-sized 1911 chambered in .45 Auto. When that's not going to work, a 9mm Gen 1 Shield goes along for the trip.
If firepower trumps all other qualities, a 5" M&P M2.0 9mm, possibly with an extended magazine, is what I'll choose.
Having said that, none of the plastic fantastic approaches the satisfaction of using a fine 1911.
I did exactly the same as you. Small .45 1911 when I could, Shield in the pocket when I couldn't.
But the M&P has replaced the small 1911. 18 rounds is better than 8.
"We need to get over the romance of carrying an out-dated, heavy, marginally reliable pistol, and get onto the business of shooting smelly bad guys in the face with a modern pistol" - Markm.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-30-18, 17:36
https://goo.gl/images/JyBMdy
I did exactly the same as you. Small .45 1911 when I could, Shield in the pocket when I couldn't.
But the M&P has replaced the small 1911. 18 rounds is better than 8.
What happened to the cheap Rugers?
What happened to the cheap Rugers?
Sold. I liked the M&P better, it just fit my hand and shot better.
Not too long ago, I posted the following; it concerned Glocks specifically, but was intended to encompass all striker fired polymer guns:
"Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
"Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash?"
Really, you think that way? I'm embarrassed for you.
MountainRaven
12-01-18, 00:10
"We need to get over the romance of carrying an out-dated, heavy, marginally reliable pistol, and get onto the business of shooting smelly bad guys in the face with a modern pistol" - Markm.
Those whacky weirdos with their Reichsrevolvers.
Real men shoot smelly bad guys (and less pungent bad guys, too) with modern, light weight pistols, like the 1911.
:jester:
1911s are fun guns and are very accessible. Every single female loves shooting my 1911. Quadruply so when I have the .22 kit on it.
The slim single stack is empowering and the weight, especially with .22, makes it crazy soft.
That said, it's just a gun. And there are better ones out there. Like, I won't lie and say I'm a martial artist. But like, in a way, 1911s and revolvers are kind of like how guys train with bo staffs or katana swords. It's neat to study old forms but in reality; you want a G19/34 with an RMR and a weaponlight.
Like, I like a good honest model 19 or 686 for shooting wadcutters and if it were my only gun, I wouldn't feel too bad. But it just won't ever be the 60s again where it is all Adam 12
And if it were the 60s, I'd get a Hi Power and all the Super Vel I could find until Beretta 92s happened.
But old single actions and revolvers are a proud discipline
To quote a friend "1911's are great, as long as they work" Yeah, 2 rounds later a part fell off his pistol.
Really, you think that way? I'm embarrassed for you.
No need to be. I did apologize and repent of that error, did I not?
No need to be. I did apologize and repent of that error, did I not?
Oh, I get that you were repenting, I was embarrassed because your tome read like something Massad Ayoob would write.
Although, I have to admit that the style is effective, because I still remember some of the drivel he used to write. For example, in one article he wrote that as he strode out the door wearing whatever firearm he was shilling, his wife asked 'Is he that good Mas?' Point being that he was wearing the special firearm while training a new officer and he wouldn't wear such a special weapon if the officer was a dud.
Such Walter Mittyness is impossible to un-read, un-see, or un-learn, it remains seared upon your cerebral cortex for eternity. Much as your brief tome will forever be enshrined.
No need to be. I did apologize and repent of that error, did I not?
You don't need to apologize, the enlightenment of not being married to your gear is a step that some will never take.
I mean we have a whole new generation of fanboys, but now they are Glock rather than 1911. Just don't take that as a way to avoid rational discussion on the Glock as a tool.
Ugghhhh Massad Ayoob.....
He got into an at fault wreck and got Second Chance to credit him as a “save” because he wore his vest when it happened.
Ugghhhh Massad Ayoob.....
He got into an at fault wreck and got Second Chance to credit him as a “save” because he wore his vest when it happened.
Hey, way back when it was Mas Ayood who convinced me to buy Cor-Bon 115 grain +P for my S&W 5904. You know, hydrostatic shock and all that.
Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash?
Beautiful words. I am now inspired to set aside the P365 and gear up with my 1911 as God intended.
Bless you, Brother Vibe. Bless you.
MountainRaven
12-01-18, 12:58
1911s are fun guns and are very accessible. Every single female loves shooting my 1911. Quadruply so when I have the .22 kit on it.
The slim single stack is empowering and the weight, especially with .22, makes it crazy soft.
That said, it's just a gun. And there are better ones out there. Like, I won't lie and say I'm a martial artist. But like, in a way, 1911s and revolvers are kind of like how guys train with bo staffs or katana swords. It's neat to study old forms but in reality; you want a G19/34 with an RMR and a weaponlight.
Like, I like a good honest model 19 or 686 for shooting wadcutters and if it were my only gun, I wouldn't feel too bad. But it just won't ever be the 60s again where it is all Adam 12
And if it were the 60s, I'd get a Hi Power and all the Super Vel I could find until Beretta 92s happened.
But old single actions and revolvers are a proud discipline
I've had G19s and G17s with RMRs and WMLs. They're excellent guns. If I were putting around Syria and Iraq in a beat-up old Toyota Corolla watching suspected Islamists or self-guided tours of Russian military sites in Crimea, they're what I'd want in my holster.
But for me and the situations I'm probable to encounter to (about) the ninth sigma, the selection of which quality, full-sized fighting handgun I carry won't play a meaningful role in my success or failure. So I'll stick to my 1911.
To quote a friend "1911's are great, as long as they work" Yeah, 2 rounds later a part fell off his pistol.
They're like classic automobiles. GREAT to own and enjoy, but horrible daily drivers.
They're like classic automobiles. GREAT to own and enjoy, but horrible daily drivers.
.....yet all of my friends shoot 5" all steel 1911s better than anything else?
I've had G19s and G17s with RMRs and WMLs. They're excellent guns. If I were putting around Syria and Iraq in a beat-up old Toyota Corolla watching suspected Islamists or self-guided tours of Russian military sites in Crimea, they're what I'd want in my holster.
But for me and the situations I'm probable to encounter to (about) the ninth sigma, the selection of which quality, full-sized fighting handgun I carry won't play a meaningful role in my success or failure. So I'll stick to my 1911.
Yep. I don’t carry my 1911 but I shoot it.
One day I shall get a 2011.
ViniVidivici
12-01-18, 14:07
It happens to the best of us. Happened to me, almost 13 years ago.
They're like classic automobiles. GREAT to own and enjoy, but horrible daily drivers.
I think there's something going on with shooters here. The 1911 was legendary for its reliability, never mind mud, sand, etc. People from Jeff Cooper on down swore by it. Soldiers and lawmen praised it. People thought, if you have a 1911 in your hand, you're safe from thuggery.
Now that the plastic guns are out, it's a fragile antique that falls apart every 40 rounds.
Something like this goes on with ammo, too. Silvertips were awesome crook-stoppers. Then came Hydra-Shok, and those Silvertips became ineffective nerf-bullets. Then came SXT, and Hydra-Shok suddenly couldn't stop a bunny-rabbit. Next month it'll be something else, and SXT will be the new widowmaker.
I think there's something going on with shooters here. The 1911 was legendary for its reliability, never mind mud, sand, etc. People from Jeff Cooper on down swore by it. Soldiers and lawmen praised it. People thought, if you have a 1911 in your hand, you're safe from thuggery.
Now that the plastic guns are out, it's a fragile antique that falls apart every 40 rounds.
Something like this goes on with ammo, too. Silvertips were awesome crook-stoppers. Then came Hydra-Shok, and those Silvertips became ineffective nerf-bullets. Then came SXT, and Hydra-Shok suddenly couldn't stop a bunny-rabbit. Next month it'll be something else, and SXT will be the new widowmaker.
Don't take this the wrong way but are you for real?
1911s were the bleeding edge of early 1900s autopistols. They were, quite frankly, outmoded by 1935.
You seem to think that no 1911 failed in WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. You seem to further think that folks were zapping Charlie with something other than ball ammo. You seem to forget that people with a choice were very much rocking Hi Powers and later Beretta 92s. You seem to forget that for a lot of good contributions Jeff Cooper made to modernizing combat handgunnery; he had a few steps back as well (Scout Rifles? Seriously....a short bolt action with a scope....nevah been done befo')
Recognize a 1911 for what it is and what it isn't. There are a LOT of cheap, garbage 1911s out there that really are total junk.
A well made 1911 starts getting expensive for the privilege of owning a gun that was state of the art a century ago. I like 1911s, but reality is reality.
Pretty much all the people who have been to the upper tiers of close quarters combat and used 1911s will tell you that there are a lot of drawbacks, almost no advantages in the current era, and that it takes a lot of end user competence to keep them reliable by current standards.
A well made, base 1911 has a lot of simplicity, but still requires care.
You are free to like what you want and shoot what you want but it isn't healthy to romanticize a gun like that.
It's the same with M-14s. People get this image of a square jawed Marine route stepping though the jungle with a rifle of iron and wood chambered in a Man's Caliber but take off the Sex Glasses for a minute and you'll find a finicky, over complex and pointless rifle that was obsolete years before it was adopted.
The AR-10 was torpedoed unfairly because some big head in charge was again wearing sex goggles and thinking about how cool it would be to have a Garand with a magazine.
1911s can freeze, rust shut, have horrid extractor problems, break slide levers, have stirrups die, have the leaf bent too much, etc. etc.
But....you do you
Sold. I liked the M&P better, it just fit my hand and shot better.
Cool, Glock or HK next month?
Doc Safari
12-01-18, 15:28
Don't take this the wrong way but are you for real?
1911s were the bleeding edge of early 1900s autopistols. They were, quite frankly, outmoded by 1935.
You seem to think that no 1911 failed in WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. You seem to further think that folks were zapping Charlie with something other than ball ammo. You seem to forget that people with a choice were very much rocking Hi Powers and later Beretta 92s. You seem to forget that for a lot of good contributions Jeff Cooper made to modernizing combat handgunnery; he had a few steps back as well (Scout Rifles? Seriously....a short bolt action with a scope....nevah been done befo')
Recognize a 1911 for what it is and what it isn't. There are a LOT of cheap, garbage 1911s out there that really are total junk.
A well made 1911 starts getting expensive for the privilege of owning a gun that was state of the art a century ago. I like 1911s, but reality is reality.
Pretty much all the people who have been to the upper tiers of close quarters combat and used 1911s will tell you that there are a lot of drawbacks, almost no advantages in the current era, and that it takes a lot of end user competence to keep them reliable by current standards.
A well made, base 1911 has a lot of simplicity, but still requires care.
You are free to like what you want and shoot what you want but it isn't healthy to romanticize a gun like that.
It's the same with M-14s. People get this image of a square jawed Marine route stepping though the jungle with a rifle of iron and wood chambered in a Man's Caliber but take off the Sex Glasses for a minute and you'll find a finicky, over complex and pointless rifle that was obsolete years before it was adopted.
The AR-10 was torpedoed unfairly because some big head in charge was again wearing sex goggles and thinking about how cool it would be to have a Garand with a magazine.
1911s can freeze, rust shut, have horrid extractor problems, break slide levers, have stirrups die, have the leaf bent too much, etc. etc.
But....you do you
Thank you. Cured me of starting to want a 1911 again. I was done with M14 asshattery long ago.
Cool, Glock or HK next month?
Nah. I tried the Glock 19 and 23; didn't like the grip angle. Shot several guns and it was close between the VP9 and the M&P. And ultimately I have to agree with Firefly. That's why my 1911s are sitting on a shelf in a gun cabinet, and I'm packing polymer.
Coal Dragger
12-01-18, 16:28
As much as I have a love for 1911’s I can’t tell anyone they should buy one, much less carry one. The last pistol and carbine class I was able to attend I left my 1911 at home and rocked a VP9. I have never once carried my 1911 as my CCW, nor had a strong desire to do so.
From what I have been able to read, and observe first hand 1911’s come in two varieties: expensive hand fitted guns that work right and run, or affordable guns that are should be strictly recreational use. Even the expensive 1911’s that work right require an end user that stays on top of maintenance, actually trains, and understands the limitations of the gun. So figure a very small percentage of 1911 owners that have high quality functional guns, training, and understand/implement a maintenance schedule. Most of us aren’t that guy whether we admit it or not.
For example I have about 15,000 rounds on an old Kimber Super Match II made in about 2001 or so, before they went to total crap. Shot that gun a lot in league matches and bullseye. Replaced the recoil spring about every 3K rounds, but it sure as hell needs more than that now. It could use a new extractor, and I don’t know how to tune one. Needs a newfiring pin retention plate, and I’ll probably put a new firing pin and spring in. Probably could use a complete new spring kit, so figure a detail strip to put everything in. For sure the sere spring needs to be replaced. The adjustable rear sight needs to be replaced due to a parts breakage, the front sight could stand to be swapped out too. The slide could stand to be refinished.
Even keeping up with maintenance you still have a kind of heavy pistol with limited capacity in original form. Something like a Wilson EDC X9, or the various STI 2011’s certainly solve the capacity issue but the other stuff still remains.
For most of us a more modern design is just easier to live with day to day.
That said I have a big hard on for a Wilson EDC X9 and STI DVC OMNI.
I used to buy the line that a 1911 had to be expensive to buy if one wanted it to work and that it would be finicky to run. Yet the plain jane Colt .38 super that I bought new in late 2012 changed my mind on 1911 reliability and durability. I figured out it's likes and dislikes, it has some but even Glocks don't like non-Glock mags so it's hard for me to fault the Colt when it doesn't function well with every $19 magazine I've ever bought. Minor modifications, probably fewer mods than a lot of Glock shooters do and lots of abuse. Haven't cleaned since early this year, just more Mobil one and a little grease. Probably close to 10,000 rounds now, not a lot by some standards.
That said I don't carry it. It's too heavy for the size and capacity. But I would feel safe carrying it if that's all I had.
I really want a 2011, because they look awesome.
Then I realize that literally all it does better than my g19 with kkm barrel is look cool and maybe shrink groups by 1.5” @ 25 yds tops. If I was shooting bullseye, maybe id pick one up.
1911s are kinda cool. Your M&P is not (neither is my glock), but it will perform well and last a long time, and serve you well.
Whats really cool is shooting well. Forget fantasizing about equipment and start training. :cool:
hotrodder636
12-01-18, 18:24
I think this describes my relationship with 1911s the best. Much like I enjoy driving my 1956 Bel Air, my Lexus is just a better daily driver. I enjoy shooting my 1911s (and they have been reliable with no broken parts-yet) but my VP9 and Shield are better EDC.
They're like classic automobiles. GREAT to own and enjoy, but horrible daily drivers.
Evel Baldgui
12-01-18, 18:42
I own j frame, and a Dan Wesson ECO; two 'classic' handguns to bring to the range for fun. For daily carry and training classes, an RMR G19 or PPQ; same reason my weekend ride is Jaguar F-Type convertible, but the daily driver is a Lexus LS. Reliability versus fun.
cistercian
12-01-18, 20:54
I was with you 'til you said "M&P". My Glock is crying. Repent by purchasing a G17 or G19 forthwith.
I love 1911's. I'd sell every "Plastic Fantasic Lover" I have right now if I could have about five 1911's that feed any kind of ammo and don't cost more than a Glock.
And that is the problem isn't it. A glorious 1911 built according to my taste is north of 4k. Realistically, more like 6k.
I love them. I have one tuned for weak wadcutter bullseye loads. An old frankenstein match gun my dad had built in the 70's. I spent many hours at the range with dad and have seen first hand just about every 1911 failure mode there is...and there are a lot of them.
When it came time for me to buy a pistol I could not accept fantastic plastic. First I bought a M9A3 Beretta which is fantastic. Then I bought a Sig MK25...also fantastic, and finally a Sig Legion 226 SAO which is the best by far of the 3.
Anyone of them will serve well but the SAO is kind of like a 1911 vastly improved. I know...heretical. Big mecgar mags really seal the deal.
I own no striker fired pistols...the small array I have do everything I will need and they are reliable too.
I acknowledge the new stuff (glock et al) work great but growing up shooting match guns ruined me. The DA/SA action was a big adjustment to be sure. But I got 3 excellent pistols for less than 1 superb 1911...and I am happy with that.
Users that are happy shooting Glocks are lucky...if they shoot them stock they pay way less than I did. They just are not for me.
jackblack73
12-01-18, 22:25
It's hard to beat a 1911 trigger. But it's true you give up some of the modern design improvements. A Wilson EDC X9 might be a good compromise between old and new, but I'm not willing to pay for one. When the Sig P229 Legion SAO becomes more readily available I'll check one out.
Nah. I tried the Glock 19 and 23; didn't like the grip angle. Shot several guns and it was close between the VP9 and the M&P. And ultimately I have to agree with Firefly. That's why my 1911s are sitting on a shelf in a gun cabinet, and I'm packing polymer.
Uni-Vibe,
Try out an M&P 2.0 .45. All the things you like about the M&P 2.0 9mm except it's in the .45 caliber you enjoyed in your 1911.
The grip size on the .45 M&P is very similar to the 9mm M&P. I'm not sure which barrel you have but the 9mm M&P (full frame) comes in 4, 4.25, and 5 inch lengths. The .45 comes in 4.25 ("Compact") and 4.6 inch lengths, both with the full frame.
I have the 4.6 in model and really like it. I was immediately shooting better than I had with any Glock. Even better than my Cheetah ('cause sights).
The .45 holds 10+1 with flush mags and 14+1 with the S&W-made extended mags. (Available with black or brown bases)
Like the 9mm, the .45 is also available in a suppressor model with steel suppressor-height sights and a threaded barrel.
All of the .45 2.0's sell for about $400 (plus shipping and FFL fee's)
The .45 recoil is easy in the M&P and can be fired indefinitely by a healthy hand/wrist just like the 9mm or 1911 .45.
Once you have the full-size 2.0 .45, get a 2.0 Shield .45 for when you don't want to carry the full-size. It has more recoil for sure but it's softer than you expect. And gets hits much more easily than you'd expect, too. Anyway this is what I've been up to...
I resisted switching from a 1911 for several years until I started shooting my carry piece at the local IDPA matches and quickly found out, to my horrifying surprise, that the pistol I had thought was 100% reliable wasn’t. That and that it was possible to not fully depress the grip safety in dynamic situations (only happened once but that was enough for me)
Switched to a M&P 45 with a thumb safety and an Apex FSS trigger. Similar ergonomics, lower bore axis, and as accurate as any quality non accurized off the shelf 1911.....and reliable with all types of ammo.
ViniVidivici
12-02-18, 08:33
I suppose the debate about expensive 1911s that run great vs. cheap ones that don't will continue into infinity, as long as campfires and the intrenet exist.
I had a cheap loose Charles Daly that ran perfectly, and a mid-priced Kimber Custom II that I had to do some fitting to (slide-to-frame fit, extractor tension and shaping) to get it to run right. It did though.
I never meant to change, at first. Got a Glock 23, to "broaden my horizons". Shot, carried, and trained with it for proficiency.
3 months later, put the Kimber back on and really noticed that extra 10 oz. Went back to the Austrian tupperware a few days later and had to admit to myself I was becoming a Glock guy.
Mostly rockin' the G17 these days. 29 yr old Gen 2, with untold thousands of rnds through it, most reliable pistol I've ever owned, next to the G23.
I love the much increased capacity both guns afford. That 21 rnd Pmag gor the 17 is great.
Love the simplicity, ease of maintenance, do NOT miss fighting rust every summer.
For me, a well-tuned 1911 has a certain "shootability" edge, but I'm overall much happier running the Glocks as my "working guns".
Street Survival
12-02-18, 08:59
Ron3 Excellent Response!!!
Business_Casual
12-02-18, 13:59
If I were making the decision today, I would look at the M&P closely. As ubiquitous as the Glock and its aftermarket support is, the M&P has made great inroads and the price/value plus being American made means a great deal. The 2.0 mid size would be a great place to land - again - if you don’t have or can’t warm to a Glock.
ViniVidivici
12-02-18, 14:51
I agree. If M&Ps had been out at the time, they would've been in consideration along with the Sigs and HKs I was looking at.
If I ever decide to veer from Glock, M&P will probably be my next choice.
1911s are sexy as hell. They have a long and glorious history, they feel so good in the hand, and they are relatively easy to detail strip and re-assemble. I admit that I have only owned two, an 80s Springfield 1911A1 that I foolishly traded away and a Colt LW Commander. Neither proved unreliable, and even my niece loved shooting the Commander when she was 16 and about 90 lbs.
My G19 is ugly, blocky, light, reliable, holds over twice as many rounds, and is fairly easy to shoot well and fast. It would also cost about 1/2 as much to replace as my Commander.
It's not too hard to decide which one to carry.
Andy
1911s are sexy as hell. They have a long and glorious history, they feel so good in the hand, and they are relatively easy to detail strip and re-assemble. I admit that I have only owned two, an 80s Springfield 1911A1 that I foolishly traded away and a Colt LW Commander. Neither proved unreliable, and even my niece loved shooting the Commander when she was 16 and about 90 lbs.
My G19 is ugly, blocky, light, reliable, holds over twice as many rounds, and is fairly easy to shoot well and fast. It would also cost about 1/2 as much to replace as my Commander.
It's not too hard to decide which one to carry.
Andy
This is it. My compact carry .45 was a great carry gun, but it only had eight rounds in the gun and sever in the spare. But it was pretty, and it was reliable,and it was easy to shoot, and it just oozed history and tradition.
My M&P 9 carries more than twice as much ammo, is indestructible, needs little maintenance, and cost one-third what the compact .45 cost.
This is it. My compact carry .45 was a great carry gun, but it only had eight rounds in the gun and sever in the spare. But it was pretty, and it was reliable,and it was easy to shoot, and it just oozed history and tradition.
My M&P 9 carries more than twice as much ammo, is indestructible, needs little maintenance, and cost one-third what the compact .45 cost.
The M&P Shield .45 2.0 is 29 oz loaded with 8 230 gr bullets. It's also extremely thin and quite affordable. Check one out.
I wanted to get a 1911 until I started shooting IDPA. I shot monthly matches for a couple years, and there wasn't a SINGLE match where somebody's 1911 didn't go down mid stage, and some matches multiple 1911s went down. These ranged from the crappy ones to the super expensive ones. They are very fun to shoot, have great triggers, and I will probably own an expensive well-built one someday, but I will never carry one. There are just too many other good reliable options out there.
I wanted to get a 1911 until I started shooting IDPA. I shot monthly matches for a couple years, and there wasn't a SINGLE match where somebody's 1911 didn't go down mid stage, and some matches multiple 1911s went down. These ranged from the crappy ones to the super expensive ones. They are very fun to shoot, have great triggers, and I will probably own an expensive well-built one someday, but I will never carry one. There are just too many other good reliable options out there.
Similar to my experience except I did run a 1911 initially. Not only that, I ran my 4” carry piece rather than a 5” gun. I think the majority of the malfunctions you see at IDPA matches are ammo related (then magazine). Many are using reloads and the 1911 is very sensitive to reloads and spring weight etc. I absolutely could not get my pistol run reliably with reloads and factory ammo without messing with springs etc. Went to a M&P full size 45 and it runs everything on the stock spring.
I bought a shield 45 a couple years ago when they ran a rebate. Same capacity as a 1911. It was around $250 all in. In a single stack, I generally prefer 45 and figured "how can I lose on this deal." I still find it amazing how well that little gun shoots and handles. It's a great summer carry... light, small, potent... but still handles like a full size (at least for me). It sure makes it hard to justify a 1911.
I say this as an unapologetic lover of the 1911.
Glock is the king of the hill in today's world. Out of the box, it will accomplish 99% of what a defensive handgun needs to accomplish barring the plastic sights. Add a threaded barrel, RMR, and WML and you are about as close to the pinnacle of a formidable defensive handgun in today's world as one can get, especially if you have the capability to carry such a beast.
One could substitute M&P, HK, Sig or CZ into the same equation and have equal to or greater performance while only being slightly disadvantaged ( and I stress slightly) in the aftermarket support.
The 1911 is a creature unto itself and offers no real advantage over any modern gun, sans maybe the trigger, and some well voiced disadvantages. A switched on end user of the 1911 can be an absolute force of nature performance wise, but getting there requires carrying a bit more baggage not only in range time, but in educating oneself also in what is needed to accomplish that goal.
I own more 1911's than I do anything else, but, I also have Glock's, M&P's, and revolvers. If I was forced to whittle it down to two, it would probably be one 1911 and one Glock, and doubtful I would feel disadvantaged carrying either.
The M&P Shield .45 2.0 is 29 oz loaded with 8 230 gr bullets. It's also extremely thin and quite affordable. Check one out.
Been carrying the 9mm version for about 3 years.
Maharlika75
12-10-18, 19:58
Your description of how you imagine 1911 vs glock owners is pretty odd, is it a joke?
I like the 1911, but there's so much more for Glocks unless you want a completely stock pistol.
I have just finished up a Glock I customized, maybe one of these days will do something similar for a 1911.
For now my g19 longslide with RMR is my carry gun and my 1911 is a range gun.
Your description of how you imagine 1911 vs glock owners is pretty odd, is it a joke?
I like the 1911, but there's so much more for Glocks unless you want a completely stock pistol.
I have just finished up a Glock I customized, maybe one of these days will do something similar for a 1911.
For now my g19 longslide with RMR is my carry gun and my 1911 is a range gun.
A stock G19 is what shines. Rmr is same for both pistols.
I can't shake a certain DA/SA myself. Just can't get it off my hip.
More attention whoring. ;)
More attention whoring. ;)
Gonna have to be more specific after 6 pages. Just saying...
By the way, can the pilot eject the WSO in the Phantom?
sundance435
12-11-18, 13:48
Besides military/antique firearms, I have, I think, 2 or 3 guns that I shoot "for fun", including an L frame, 4" barrel revolver. Personally (meaning you shouldn't care, because it's just my opinion), I see it as a waste of money to own guns that are only good as range toys, and in that class I count 1911s. Again, personal opinion, but I don't see the point of owning any firearm if you can't depend on it for something more than range use - I could definitely count on my pre-lock 686+ for more than that, but why? Regardless, if circumstances dictate that it was the only gun I had, I wouldn't think twice about relying on it. That being said, the 2A is good and this is America, so if you like spending money on range guns, then I support that.
Gonna have to be more specific after 6 pages. Just saying...
By the way, can the pilot eject the WSO in the Phantom?
Lol, these self flagellating attention seeking thread titles just seem more appropriate at TOS or Facespace. Just makes me roll my eyes.
Flew a different Rhino (F18F) but I did see one of the last QF-4s launch. Looked like a roman candle attached to a flying brick. :D
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-11-18, 19:40
Lol, these self flagellating attention seeking thread titles just seem more appropriate at TOS or Facespace. Just makes me roll my eyes.
Flew a different Rhino (F18F) but I did see one of the last QF-4s launch. Looked like a roman candle attached to a flying brick. :D
And lucky for all of us he had started multiple threads like this recently.
And lucky for all of us he had started multiple threads like this recently.
Hence the repeated attention whore callout. ;)
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